impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[atomheartbevo 90,053]

23 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

It would be awesome if Schiff called Lev Parnas, and then Nunes and his aides up to testify.

Parnas will definitely testify, which then puts Nunes in one helluva bind.  If Nunes and his aides try to defy the subpoenas and not testify (and I don't know how, since they would have no executive privilege/whatever that Trump aides have claimed), that means Parnas gets to define the public's image of what Nunes and Co. was doing. 

Nunes can't let Parnas go up there and testify and give his version of events and provide videos/audio/etc. without some kind of response.  And a few little soundbites on Fox & Friends wouldn't be enough for somebody like Nunes - he simply doesn't have the cult following that Trump does, and he still runs the serious risk that even somebody on Fox might ask him to respond to this or that item from the testimony.

 More importantly, Nunes' local GOP could easily find somebody else to win that district - it's rigged to be won by a generic Republican, and there's not much that's special about Nunes.

[Bruh Man 3,160]

Watching Nunes question Parnas would be hilarious.

Nunes: This is a fabricated anti-Trump hit job funded by Soros, disseminated by CHALUPA, and promoted by the LAMEstream media.

Parnas: Bro, we did it. Give it up. It's over. 

[atomheartbevo 90,053]

57 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Watching Nunes question Parnas would be hilarious.

Nunes: This is a fabricated anti-Trump hit job funded by Soros, disseminated by CHALUPA, and promoted by the LAMEstream media.

Parnas: Bro, we did it. Give it up. It's over. 

Parnas: I have photos and videos.  Would be really cool if somebody tossed me a pardon.  Do you know of anybody that can pardon people?

[Js1 85,748]

22 hours ago, Message Board User said:

 

Gonna be a hard pass on an account whose bio is "#MAGA. Official RNC Research acct. Follow for latest on Democrats, pundits, & Trump's accomplishments. "

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Firtash may be working the room now. I figured he was/is going to lay low in Vienna and wait out extradition. He is pro-Russian Ukrainian, so what's the angle here?

 

[Tuco 5,084]

It's possible Firtash is in full burn-it-down mode, after Rudy failed to deliver on purchased favors and it is unlikely the Trump administration will be able to do anything to help in the next 12 months. 

Cool. 

[Tuco 5,084]

Nevermind.  I should have read the article first.  He's just admitting to what is in the public record and spinning the gaps to make himself look better.  He's in damage control mode.  Where it makes sense to point fingers at Giuliani, he does, but he is not providing more information. And he still has Toensing and diGenova on the job.  

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Tuco

[triplehorn 2,664]

SCOTUS order in cases re Trump tax returns postponed until end of next week (Fri 12/6).

and later today should be getting a ruling from judge Jackson on McGahn re Trump claims of "absolute immunity" which he's applied to many to prevent testimony to Congress.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by triplehorn

[Bama Chick 28,596]

[Biff Tannen 45,763]

41 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

SCOTUS order in cases re Trump tax returns postponed until end of next week (Fri 12/6).

and later today should be getting a ruling from judge Jackson on McGahn re Trump claims of "absolute immunity" which he's applied to many to prevent testimony to Congress.

 

If the judge rules McGahn has to testify, won't they just appeal and draw it out longer?

[DigglerontheHoof 21,282]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

If the judge rules McGahn has to testify, won't they just appeal and draw it out longer?

Yes

[Eastwood 4,394]

It would be wild if we got the equivalent of the Nixon tapes. We all think that the Forever Trumpers will just come right out and say that they don't care and that Trump can abuse the constitution all he wants, but I want to hear it. I want it on the record forever.

[David Dennison 19,119]

Just now, Eastwood said:

It would be wild if we got the equivalent of the Nixon tapes. We all think that the Forever Trumpers will just come right out and say that they don't care and that Trump can abuse the constitution all he wants, but I want to hear it. I want it on the record forever.

They've been saying it. The equivalent of the Nixon tapes won't matter. The Republican Party will protect him as long as he has 90% approval from the base. Donald Trump is leading a cult of personality. He's not dangerous. The Republican Party is.

[David Dennison 19,119]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

If the judge rules McGahn has to testify, won't they just appeal and draw it out longer?

Yes.

[Dnaguy 12,334]

1 minute ago, Eastwood said:

It would be wild if we got the equivalent of the Nixon tapes. We all think that the Forever Trumpers will just come right out and say that they don't care and that Trump can abuse the constitution all he wants, but I want to hear it. I want it on the record forever.

It won’t be that blatant.

They’ll say Benghazi, or emails, or Fast and Furious, or White Water, or Clinton foundation, or Pizza Gate or Ukrainian hacking, or Russia hoax, or Deep state....

They’re not operating in the real, rational world with truth. They’re so whipped into Fox’s narrative that they think that somehow a real version of the show ‘Scandal’ is playing out.

Actual hard evidence will probably just solicit calls of fake news, deep fake (denying that the tape is even real), and just question the motives of the person who released it (leaks, who’s the whistleblower, main stream media conspiracy, etc). 

[RomaVicta 30,072]

10 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

It would be wild if we got the equivalent of the Nixon tapes. We all think that the Forever Trumpers will just come right out and say that they don't care and that Trump can abuse the constitution all he wants, but I want to hear it. I want it on the record forever.

[Dnaguy 12,334]

Fox News in addition to reality TV and an aging / religiosity-addled  brain has somehow created a form of intellectual rot that Can’t be fixed.

Zombies are real folks. 

[Red Five 41,066]

Trump denied that the voice on the “grab em by the pussy” tape was his.

[Tuco 5,084]

Regarding the polling numbers....

The most recent poll that showed movement against impeachment was Emerson.  Its data was taken from 11/17-11/20, and also concluded that Trump's approval rating was +1, which is a serious wild point compared to others.  (The next  mostTrump-favorable poll showed him -7 points.) 

Rasmussen, which is usually very pro-Trump, released a poll today with data from 11/20-11/24.  It shows Trump 11 points underwater. (That compares to -9 from end of October, when some of the impeachment stuff was picking up steam.) Rasmussen frequently revises their numbers later, so I wouldn't be surprised if the -11 gets softened.  But it certainly does not support the idea that the impeachment is helping the President. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Tuco

[Eastwood 4,394]

19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They've been saying it. The equivalent of the Nixon tapes won't matter. The Republican Party will protect him as long as he has 90% approval from the base. Donald Trump is leading a cult of personality. He's not dangerous. The Republican Party is.

Right now they are saying things like "no impeachable offense" and "executive privilege." Next will be the "Obama didn't care about the constitution, why should Trump?" That will be followed up with "Trump is above the constitution."

[Mdhorn 6,096]

3 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Right now they are saying things like "no impeachable offense" and "executive privilege." Next will be the "Obama didn't care about the constitution, why should Trump?" That will be followed up with "Trump is above the constitution."

Maybe that's why Trump is always talking up how he is the best president ever, including George Washington.  He's positioning himself above the framers of the Constitution--4d chess.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Mdhorn

[triplehorn 2,664]

29 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

If the judge rules McGahn has to testify, won't they just appeal and draw it out longer?

Yes, however there is reason to believe SCOTUS would expedite a resolution in early 2020 as opposed to next summer.  Apart from the Mitch McConnell's wishful fantasy, there has never been an expectation the House would have the necessary evidence and testimony for an ironclad case before the end of 2019.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, Mdhorn said:

Maybe that's why Trump is always talking up how he is the best president ever, including George Washington.  He's positioning himself above the framers of the Constitution--4d chess.

I believe the Democrats need to be playing Hangman. Time for Trump to buy some vowels.

TR _ _ T_ R

[SquishMitten 10,459]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:28 PM, CowboyFred said:

as the optics of that action would be seen as basically saying GOP senators have a better understanding of the law.

Um. Have you been following along? A lot of people don't know this about Trump, but he has a tremendous understanding of the law. He knows the law better than anybody. People always come up to him and say "Mr. President, did you know that you have a better understanding of the law than anybody in the history of the country?" I don't know if that's true, but maybe. We'll see. 

[SquishMitten 10,459]

21 hours ago, jw4381 said:

How in the ever loving fuck is support for impeachment going down after the testimony and republican ”cross examination” this week?

 

 

Probably because people (Rs) started the false narrative that support was waning. The more times it's repeated, the more the uninformed voters hear it. So many sheep in this country. They don't have any independent thought, they just go along with what they hear. All the rise in support was for the same reason. Most people aren't paying attention to anything other than the headlines/talking points they're exposed to. Their current opinions on any given issue are meaningless because they can swing back and forth wildly based on what they heard most recently. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,918]

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-dont-know-who-to-believe-in-this-impeachment-hearing?fbclid=IwAR2IfqA_PIeOGu_GeNoUb5iTg_yotnoHwRY6WKhLCpzg6inpHlRvBlTGdto

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 hours ago, Tuco said:

Regarding the polling numbers....

The most recent poll that showed movement against impeachment was Emerson.  Its data was taken from 11/17-11/20, and also concluded that Trump's approval rating was +1, which is a serious wild point compared to others.  (The next  mostTrump-favorable poll showed him -7 points.) 

Rasmussen, which is usually very pro-Trump, released a poll today with data from 11/20-11/24.  It shows Trump 11 points underwater. (That compares to -9 from end of October, when some of the impeachment stuff was picking up steam.) Rasmussen frequently revises their numbers later, so I wouldn't be surprised if the -11 gets softened.  But it certainly does not support the idea that the impeachment is helping the President. 

Rasmussen at negative 11 is a terrible poll for trump. That’s a negative 18 in reality.

Not sure what is up with that Emerson poll as it’s a complete outlier from everything else. The republicans are seizing on it though as that one poll is the source of their complete current narrative. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Trump is going to keep saying the poll numbers are going down (for impeachment) because he uses Survey Monkey and has his staff fill it out.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,540]

538 has a decent page on impeachment polls including trends back to March.  It does seem to be a bit difficult to pull them together since different polls ask different questions. They look to be only using a handful of polling organizations.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo

even when they show that "only" 40% of independents want to see Trump impeached, the GOP shouldn't be happy. You know that you've already lost those 40% in the 2020 election. It doesn't mean that you've won the remaining 60. 

 

[David Dennison 19,119]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

538 has a decent page on impeachment polls including trends back to March.  It does seem to be a bit difficult to pull them together since different polls ask different questions. They look to be only using a handful of polling organizations.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo

even when they show that "only" 40% of independents want to see Trump impeached, the GOP shouldn't be happy. You know that you've already lost those 40% in the 2020 election. It doesn't mean that you've won the remaining 60. 

 

The sad fact of the matter is, the moderates in the Democratic caucus have all the power now. They can kill impeachment if they want to.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

[Pig Bellmont 8,750]

4 hours ago, triplehorn said:

SCOTUS order in cases re Trump tax returns postponed until end of next week (Fri 12/6).

and later today should be getting a ruling from judge Jackson on McGahn re Trump claims of "absolute immunity" which he's applied to many to prevent testimony to Congress.

 

Even if the court approves a stay until the merits are decided, that’s not indicative of how the judges will rule- it’s keeping the status quo. However it would be a MAJOR deal if the court denied the stay application. I’d give it less than a 10% chance for denying the stay

[jimmyjazz 46,475]

2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

. . . which means the hearings didn't change many minds.  Nobody expected much different.

Edited November 25, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,918]

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

I discovered that  some Congresspeople are difficult to contact via email (restricted to district residents, etc) so I looked up the numbers for Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Schiff. Since it is District Work Week, I called their local offices and left messages on their machines. Also stated where I was calling from so they would know that there is support from areas they may not have considered.

Anyway, if anyone wants to do likewise here are the two numbers I called:

Speaker Pelosi: 1- (area code 415)  556---4862 Press #2 to leave message on national issues.

Rep. Schiff: 1- (area code 818)  450---2900

[lemonlime 5,503]

44 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Yeah,  The GOP is a cult.  The cult members won't change their minds no matter what comes out.  The rest of the country remains either horrified or oblivious.

This is for the history books, assuming they still exist in a few years, not changing anyone's mind today.

Edit to add:  worrying about changes in the polls on impeachment is pointless.  The numbers are already baked in.  To the extent they may change by a few points in any direction, it's probably based on the outfit conducting the poll, who happened to pick up the phone that day, etc.  

Edited November 25, 2019 by lemonlime

[TwiceHorn 31,684]

12 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I discovered that  some Congresspeople are difficult to contact via email (restricted to district residents, etc) so I looked up the numbers for Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Schiff. Since it is District Work Week, I called their local offices and left messages on their machines. Also stated where I was calling from so they would know that there is support from areas they may not have considered.

Anyway, if anyone wants to do likewise here are the two numbers I called:

Speaker Pelosi: 1- (area code 415)  556---4862 Press #2 to leave message on national issues.

Rep. Schiff: 1- (area code 818)  450---2900

Yes, they try to rig their emails so they  hear ONLY from constituents via email.  They can't do that with the phone or snail mail, so they don't.  But rest assured that as a non-constituent, they will ignore you as best they can.

Edited November 25, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Maybe some more documents coming out:

 

[TwiceHorn 31,684]

43 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Even if the court approves a stay until the merits are decided, that’s not indicative of how the judges will rule- it’s keeping the status quo. However it would be a MAJOR deal if the court denied the stay application. I’d give it less than a 10% chance for denying the stay

I think that's pure cert right there.  Vance has agreed not to seek enforcement of the subpoena until appeals exhausted, so the whole stay game is off the table.

Also think it's inaccurate to state that a decision was "postponed."  We know when briefing is complete and it's ready for decision and we know when cert conferences are.  It's a bit of a guess whether/when they take up a petition in a given conference.

Edited November 25, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Unpopular opinion but the democrats are dropping the ball on impeachment again by slow playing too much (Possibly intentionally).

They need to advance the case and drive public opinion by presenting articles of impeachment NOW instead of sitting on the case.  

We just had all that drama with public testimony and now everyone looks like chickens with their heads cut off.  

The case has been made.  Time to push to the next step with the sense of urgency it deserves.  Otherwise Congress is just being complicit in allowing Trump to do more crime.  

Edited November 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[tantric superman 4,668]

I'd like to think the Dems are talking a break this week and then coming out loaded for bear next week.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,918]

Just now, tantric superman said:

I'd like to think the Dems are talking a break this week and then coming out loaded for bear next week.

well, that IS what's happening, so....

[jimmyjazz 46,475]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We just had all that drama with public testimony and now everyone looks like chickens with their heads cut off.  

Well, no, they're only looking like headless chickens if that's what you're looking for, or perhaps if you're being influenced by propaganda to that end.  Relax.

[Biff Tannen 45,763]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Unpopular opinion but the democrats are dropping the ball on impeachment again by slow playing too much (Possibly intentionally).

They need to advance the case and drive public opinion by presenting articles of impeachment NOW instead of sitting on the case.  

We just had all that drama with public testimony and now everyone looks like chickens with their heads cut off.  

The case has been made.  Time to push to the next step with the sense of urgency it deserves.  Otherwise Congress is just being complicit in allowing Trump to do more crime.  

Aren't they writing it as we speak?

[David Dennison 19,119]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Unpopular opinion but the democrats are dropping the ball on impeachment again by slow playing too much (Possibly intentionally).

They need to advance the case and drive public opinion by presenting articles of impeachment NOW instead of sitting on the case.  

We just had all that drama with public testimony and now everyone looks like chickens with their heads cut off.  

The case has been made.  Time to push to the next step with the sense of urgency it deserves.  Otherwise Congress is just being complicit in allowing Trump to do more crime.  

Whether impeachment happens or not is in the hands of 19 Democrats.

They can kill this if they want to and leadership knows it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

2 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I'd like to think the Dems are talking a break this week and then coming out loaded for bear next week.

Yeah, that’s the problem.  If the democrats wanted to win they would have this process mapped out with no breaks.  Just a sustained unrelenting offense.  They have all the ammunition but are deciding not to use it because?!?

[David Dennison 19,119]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, that’s the problem.  If the democrats wanted to win they would have this process mapped out with no breaks.  Just a sustained unrelenting offense.  They have all the ammunition but are deciding not to use it because?!?

Because certain members of their caucus can kill he whole thing.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Aren't they writing it as we speak?

It should have been decided weeks ago. None of the facts of the case have changed or been credibly disputed since the whistleblower. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Because certain members of their caucus can kill he whole thing.

Yes Dennison, we know nothing is possible because of politics. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Unpopular opinion but the democrats are dropping the ball on impeachment again by slow playing too much (Possibly intentionally).

They need to advance the case and drive public opinion by presenting articles of impeachment NOW instead of sitting on the case like they’re doing now.  

We just had all that drama with public testimony and know everyone looks like chickens with their heads cut off.  

The case has been made.  Time to push to the next with the sense of urgency it deserves.  Otherwise Congress is just being complicit in allowing Trump to do more crime.  

I believe Schiff just sent a letter today, I'll see if I can dig it up.