impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[henrygandorf 29194]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

2- Emulating behavior that they think Trump appreciates. Everyone in Washington is trying to move on up the ladder. 

let me describe in slightly more detail what the trump ladder looks like - there's one step.

either you're loyal to the point of looking like a fucking idiot, and you're safe (for another year).  or you maintain a shred of dignity, and you're dead to him, and human scum, subject to constant ridicule via social media/chopper-talks.

even his closest allies and confidants (are there any left?) describe him as treating every relationship as purely transactional.

[troph 24906]

I can’t even stand to listen to the republican nonsense anymore. I’ve had to turn off the radio or news when they come on. There is no objective rationale to conclude trump did nothing wrong, none. Want to argue ignorance, or not a big deal, or not impeachable fine but to claim “no evidence” that’s beyond the pale. Can’t deal with them anymore.

[jimmyjazz 46130]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

In a post-facts world, the best liar wins.  And sweet Jesus, the GOP is world-champs at selling lies.  In terms of individual size, total volume, the whole shebang.  It's what they do.  

It's not the fact that they're good at selling their lies.  It's that the people they're selling their lies to are morons.  This is a given.

The strategy needs to put their lies on blast and go for the OTHER half of the population that can think for themselves.  A good portion of those people are already locked in, sure, but not all of them.

Get a few more apathetics to vote, and get the young crowd to vote en masse.  Do those and Trump is gone.  It's an uphill battle, but 80K votes is not insurmountable.  Yes, I get it, that 80K will probably expand to 800K this time around, and it's terrifying, but I'm not just going to crawl into a Belgian foxhole and freeze to death.

[Biff Tannen 45737]

38 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Now apply that same logic to the actions of literally any Republican who has appeared in front of a camera in the last 2 years days.

fixed

[Biff Tannen 45737]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

but I'm not just going to crawl into a Belgian foxhole and freeze to death.

[henrygandorf 29194]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not just going to crawl into a Belgian foxhole and freeze to death.

but we have bourbon.

and the sunday ticket.

[Brisketexan 105335]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not the fact that they're good at selling their lies.  It's that the people they're selling their lies to are morons.  This is a given.

The strategy needs to put their lies on blast and go for the OTHER half of the population that can think for themselves.  A good portion of those people are already locked in, sure, but not all of them.

Get a few more apathetics to vote, and get the young crowd to vote en masse.  Do those and Trump is gone.  It's an uphill battle, but 80K votes is not insurmountable.  Yes, I get it, that 80K will probably expand to 800K this time around, and it's terrifying, but I'm not just going to crawl into a Belgian foxhole and freeze to death.

Hey, I'm with you.....let's go get fucking mowed down in no-man's land.  "Die on your feet" and all that.  Seriously, I mean it -- we don't go down without a fight.  All that said, I've looked at the daily casualty reports here at the Somme....and it ain't pretty....

[Brandywine 1316]

Had Hillary been elected all this would be 20 times worse by the Republicans. They have lost all ability to govern sanely. They’ve lost ALL ABILITY TO GOVERN. Period. The House has passed 400 bills that are setting on Mitch’s desk gathering dust, and Trump is saying nothing is being done. Look in the mirror. 

[troph 24906]

Just listened to Doug Collins on an NPR interview pull the rank and file Pub nonsense but at the end with no answer for the complete refusal to present witnesses or documents (70+ demands and 12 witnesses, 10 subpoenaed) acknowledged that their own law prof witness said plenty was wrong with the calls but the case wasn’t fully developed. With all the hearsay bs claims, 12 witnesses with direct knowledge refused to comply with demands some subpoenas.

The hypocrisy is insane.

[pyrohornIII 4821]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

i understand this and have been saying it for months and months.  the real point is to make sure he's gone in a year, and go from there.

but i'm reacting to the media's critique of the messaging, and the possible paths and speeds and approaches, and who they need to get to testify and what is rudy doing and phone records and blah blah.  what i'm saying, is that none of that matters, it's all posturing. 

nobody cares about the message anymore.  the election will come down to 3-4 states, and we already know the gop doesn't play fair.  just text me directions to the ledge and i'll shut up for a while. 

brisket, drop a pin.

The election also needs to affect McConnell, Graham, Cornyn and all the other assholes enabling this piss soaked liar.  I can't help but think that part of this impeachment is to get them down on record, and some good soundbytes.   Worked right it could be a way to take back the senate.

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

In a post-facts world, the best liar wins.  And sweet Jesus, the GOP is world-champs at selling lies.  In terms of individual size, total volume, the whole shebang.  It's what they do.  "Stacking 'em deep and selling 'em cheep!"

Ledge is getting crowded.  Acceptance of reality is inevitable for the sane.

I watched an episode or Broken last night on counterfeit cosmetics.  I wasn't aware how much money was in counterfeiting in general, and how little repercussion for getting caught.     Dumb cheap people buy counterfeit stuff to impress their dumb friends.   That's why they back this guy, the counterfeit president.

 

Also there was a line in there about mobsters and crooks, and how often they believe and spread lies.  The bigger the lie, the more often it is swallowed.   This is trump's world...and it's working. 

[DixonHur 11375]

42 minutes ago, troph said:

Just listened to Doug Collins on an NPR interview pull the rank and file Pub nonsense but at the end with no answer for the complete refusal to present witnesses or documents (70+ demands and 12 witnesses, 10 subpoenaed) acknowledged that their own law prof witness said plenty was wrong with the calls but the case wasn’t fully developed. With all the hearsay bs claims, 12 witnesses with direct knowledge refused to comply with demands some subpoenas.

The hypocrisy is insane.
 

I heard that too and had to change the station when he basically blamed the Dems for Trump refusing to allow witnesses to testify.  

He said (without breaking into laughter) the Dems are the ones who are destroying the Constitution by not allowing the legal system to do it's job.  That's the real abuse of power.

Edited December 6, 2019 by DixonHur
anger typing

[troph 24906]

I heard that too and had to change the station when he basically blamed the Dems for Trump refusing to allow witnesses to testify.  
He said (without breaking into laughter) the Dems are the ones who are destroying the Constitution by not allowing the legal system to do it's job.  That's the real abuse of power.

I almost threw a folder across the car at that one.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

57 minutes ago, troph said:

I can’t even stand to listen to the republican nonsense anymore. I’ve had to turn off the radio or news when they come on. There is no objective rationale to conclude trump did nothing wrong, none. Want to argue ignorance, or not a big deal, or not impeachable fine but to claim “no evidence” that’s beyond the pale. Can’t deal with them anymore.

Yeah their whole schtick is now “WHY ARE YOU PICKING ON ME?”

[troph 24906]

She did a good job trying to ask her one hard question and frankly was better than most but damn this is easy, statute says it’s a federal crime to take something of value from a foreign source in connection with a campaign. He’s admitted it.

He’s refused without a single exception to respond to document and witness subpoenas. Executive privilege won’t and doesn’t apply to every witness and every document - the privilege will allow the essentials of the case come to light. That’s obstruction of congress. It’s in broad daylight.

It’s not hard.

[workswithseed 2111]

 

[troph 24906]

I was listening to Michael Isikoff's "Skullduggery" podcast this morning on my bike ride. He had Former Congressman Steve Israel, who is very close to Adam Schiff, on as his guest. He of course said what we've all said, that it's highly unlikely the senate would convict. (I think he said 99% chance they won't) Then he made the point that if you want to assess Trump's reelection chances, looking at national impeachment polls is relatively useless because the election is really going to come down to about 20 total counties in 7 states. If you want an idea of the likelihood of Trump getting reelected, that's where you should be looking at impeachment polling. 

Tactically speaking this really good insight and true.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

Good on her for not letting that shit stick.  Guy was trying to make this about a personal vendetta.  Instead he gave her an alley-oop to hammer down the fact this is about upholding the Constitution and rule of law, plain and simple.  More of that please.

I watched the exchange and I agree with your take. She has got to be exhausted. 79 years old and in politics long enough to have seen plenty of crap, but this level of crap is mind-blowing.

[atomheartbevo 89794]

2 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

I really don't understand how her and George are still married.  

 

1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

She got all indignant when Wolfe Blitzer said something about not wanting to get into her "troubled marriage".  At the time I thought he sounded like someone with common knowledge among insiders that's not known to the general public. Like everyone in the media knows the marriage is over, or they're separated, or something like that. It's the only thing that makes sense. The only other option is that she is "anonymous" and she is one helluvan actress and they're in it together.

I’m partly convinced it’s all a troll.   They stand to make more from book deals than she’s made up until now (although her polling firm may have been profitable, I don’t know).  

[Homercles 10206]

1 hour ago, troph said:

I can’t even stand to listen to the republican nonsense anymore. I’ve had to turn off the radio or news when they come on. There is no objective rationale to conclude trump did nothing wrong, none. Want to argue ignorance, or not a big deal, or not impeachable fine but to claim “no evidence” that’s beyond the pale. Can’t deal with them anymore.

I’ve had to stop listening to NPR anymore...at least in the morning.  I’d sit there in traffic getting pissed off and start ranting to myself like a madman.  It’s not the same kind of PO’d I get when I check out Fox News for kicks, as NPR is pretty neutral but it’s the ‘oh god now what’ 

Instead I listen to sports talk...often y’all favorite boy there Chip Brown and Mike Hardge...i know CB had that regarded hot piece/recruiting and y’all hate him, but I’m pretty neutral as an osu guy + I hate CB infinitely less than I hate Trump.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by Homercles

[troph 24906]

Things are progressing just fine in the House. The president is going to be impeached.

She nailed it 100% correct. Election for all of it except the Constitution. She resents the use of the word hare, is a good religious person and prays for the president.

Love the sinner hate the sin. That’s evangelical red meat - or it should be.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

I think a lot of the over the top behavior of Republicans comes from two things.

1- First trying to cause a stir, get trending on Twitter etc. 

2- Emulating behavior that they think Trump appreciates. Everyone in Washington is trying to move on up the ladder. 
 

Neither of those things is really new or noteworthy, so I don’t comment on them. Plus, people here do it constantly. Nance flipping out is noticeably different.

I’ll retire now from my brief psychoanalyst career. Carry on. 

You “don’t comment on them” because you’re a troll who only comments on things that promote your dear leader’s or employer’s desired agenda.

[ndawg 1242]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

She nailed it 100% correct. Election for all of it except the Constitution. She resents the use of the word hare, is a good religious person and prays for the president.

Love the sinner hate the sin. That’s evangelical red meat - or it should be.
 

It won't matter. Her olive branch won't make a difference. When the GOP says "God uses imperfect people," they mean that he uses imperfect Republicans. Their God would only use a Democrat who was absolutely perfect. In other words, Tulsi Gabbard.

If it feels like you're on crazy pills, join the club.

[BradInATX 9208]

Imagine being so completely devoid of positive things you can say about your party and president that you're resorting to making a big deal out of a single, very brief moment of emotion by a senator from California. 

I say we give it to 'em. It's all he has.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I really don't understand how her and George are still married.  

They’re both grifters playing the long game.

Once Trump is out of office look for them to shop a book deal and go on television a bunch spouting a bunch of modern day James Carrillo/Mary Matalin nonsense.

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Ledge is getting crowded.  Acceptance of reality is inevitable for the sane.

The Supreme Court will not protect Trump’s taxes from Congress and they will make that decision by June. There is a reason Trump is fighting so hard to keep that from the public and when it does- he won’t be capable of re-election and it will be too late to get another republican on the ballot. Y’all can go ahead and give my spot on the ledge to someone else. Dems are going to win historic control in 2020 and feel free to bookmark this post

[troph 24906]

What’s your basis for certainty re SCOTUS?

[WhatTheBuck 28798]

5 hours ago, troph said:

She nailed it 100% correct. Election for all of it except the Constitution. She resents the use of the word hare, is a good religious person and prays for the president.

Love the sinner hate the sin. That’s evangelical red meat - or it should be.

She's a papist. The Klan hate them. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

The WH and the Senate Republicans have been talking, and apparently they want to limit the show trial to two weeks. So two weeks in January is what we're looking at. What strategy could the defenders of the Constitution take here knowing that the outcome is decided and the Senate is working with the WH to cover? Is it better to foil that plan? Go ahead and accept it? We've been round and round on the timing and wisdom of all of this, but does the Senate already know the outcome from the judges ruling (that hasn't happened yet-Dec 10 regarding Kupperman/Bolton)?

[Chad Fuck 17776]

I’m partly convinced it’s all a troll.   They stand to make more from book deals than she’s made up until now (although her polling firm may have been profitable, I don’t know).  

This. When it’s all done, they write a book about their crazy relationship in crazy times, make the circuit where everyone gets warm and fuzzy about a love overcoming story. They get to stay in their DC social circles and get rich doing it.

[Chad Fuck 17776]

They’re both grifters playing the long game.

Once Trump is out of office look for them to shop a book deal and go on television a bunch spouting a bunch of modern day James Carrillo/Mary Matalin nonsense.

Looks like BG beat me to it. Figures.

[GRHorn 105]

 

[TwiceHorn 31536]

8 hours ago, troph said:

What’s your basis for certainty re SCOTUS?

The Supreme Court retains more integrity than people seem to be willing to give it credit for.  I don't think even the much maligned Kav is willing to go so far with executive privilege as to completely corrode the balance of powers.  Gorsuch has shown an independent streak, as has Roberts.

Clarence, on the other hand  . . . . But he's a minority of one.

The really dependable conservatards on the court aren't the recent appointments or the Chief Justice.  It's Alito and Thomas you have to watch out for.

Don't forget that conservative courts gave us existing law on executive privilege and immunity, which is sparingly applied.  And in one case, it gave that law against a conservative president.

Edited December 6, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Biff Tannen 45737]

9 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

The Supreme Court will not protect Trump’s taxes from Congress and they will make that decision by June. There is a reason Trump is fighting so hard to keep that from the public and when it does- he won’t be capable of re-election and it will be too late to get another republican on the ballot. Y’all can go ahead and give my spot on the ledge to someone else. Dems are going to win historic control in 2020 and feel free to bookmark this post

[triplehorn 2664]

There’s a possibility SCOTUS could consider 3 cases a week from today related to House impeachment at their 12/13 conference - House Mazars (tax returns), Manhattan DA Mazars, and Deutsche Bank financials.  To anyone, what are the odds of SCOTUS denying cert on one or all of these cases?  More specifically, do they accept them on the face of it because of POTUS/impeachment implications, even if the grounds for appeals is weak as shit clock-running, or will they have the fortitude to deny cert if clearly appropriate ?

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by triplehorn

[Chrispy_ 105]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

 

The Democrats making their case for impeachment during Thanksgiving and Christmas shopping is truly bizarre. 

[triplehorn 2664]

9 minutes ago, Chrispy_ said:

The Democrats making their case for impeachment during Thanksgiving and Christmas shopping is truly bizarre. 

Just getting started.  

[atomheartbevo 89794]

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The WH and the Senate Republicans have been talking, and apparently they want to limit the show trial to two weeks. So two weeks in January is what we're looking at. What strategy could the defenders of the Constitution take here knowing that the outcome is decided and the Senate is working with the WH to cover? Is it better to foil that plan? Go ahead and accept it? We've been round and round on the timing and wisdom of all of this, but does the Senate already know the outcome from the judges ruling (that hasn't happened yet-Dec 10 regarding Kupperman/Bolton)?

They can limit it to two weeks, push it through quickly, and it will make it look as shady as Trump’s shenanigans, and gives the Democrats a game plan for the other impeachment inquiries.  

[Red Five 40895]

I would hope that people wouldn't have to google the word "impeachment". 

[Homercles 10206]

In 2021 I’ll be in here and see a user by the name of ‘Chrispy..........’

[TwiceHorn 31536]

18 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

There’s a possibility SCOTUS could consider 3 cases a week from today related to House impeachment at their 12/13 conference - House Mazars (tax returns), Manhattan DA Mazars, and Deutsche Bank financials.  To anyone, what are the odds of SCOTUS denying cert on one or all of these cases?  More specifically, do they accept them on the face of it because of POTUS/impeachment implications, even if the grounds for appeals is weak as shit clock-running, or will they have the fortitude to deny cert if clearly appropriate ?

 

I don't think anyone knows.  Usually, the crappiness of one party's position doesn't militate against grant if the question is sufficiently grave, which I think these cases are.

The one long-term danger that the House case represents is limitation on their subpoena power in some curious way.

[Tuco 5077]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

 

I just want to quote this post to show that simply posting a graph, completely devoid of any meaningful information, is somehow compelling to idiots.  "Hey, look Martha, there's two lines and some numbers on the left hand side.  That seals it, let's buy that bridge. " No link.  No labels on either axis.  No context.  Just a picture, with colors. That's all it takes to convince Trumpsters that they are informed.  Nevermind the fact that apparently "impeachment", like "Peloton", is trending upwards.  It's not just "low information voters," it's "no-critical thinking voters" who are unable or uninterested in evaluating the information they gladly consume. 

[Brisketexan 105335]

9 hours ago, troph said:

What’s your basis for certainty re SCOTUS?

I would think it has something to do with legal weed, and him smoking a LOT of it.

[Chrispy_ 105]

19 minutes ago, Homercles said:

In 2021 I’ll be in here and see a user by the name of ‘Chrispy..........’

I chuckled. I know Republicans aren’t welcome here, so I’ll keep my interaction to a minimum. 

[Jack Straw 2954]

16 hours ago, troph said:

I can’t even stand to listen to the republican nonsense anymore. I’ve had to turn off the radio or news when they come on. There is no objective rationale to conclude trump did nothing wrong, none. Want to argue ignorance, or not a big deal, or not impeachable fine but to claim “no evidence” that’s beyond the pale. Can’t deal with them anymore.

Republicans are fundamentally dishonest.  Everything that any of them says should be wholly and immediately dismissed out of hand.  “Not impeachable” isn’t even a legitimate position or argument at this juncture, either. 

[wildcat09 29387]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

The Supreme Court retains more integrity than people seem to be willing to give it credit for.  I don't think even the much maligned Kav is willing to go so far with executive privilege as to completely corrode the balance of powers.  Gorsuch has shown an independent streak, as has Roberts.

Clarence, on the other hand  . . . . But he's a minority of one.

The really dependable conservatards on the court aren't the recent appointments or the Chief Justice.  It's Alito and Thomas you have to watch out for.

Don't forget that conservative courts gave us existing law on executive privilege and immunity, which is sparingly applied.  And in one case, it gave that law against a conservative president.

Counterpoint: Shelby v. Holder, Burwell v. Hobby Lobby, and the conservative justices dissenting in the Census case to ok blatantly lying to the Court, among plenty of other examples. I'm particularly a fan of Gorsuch, who will (with Kavanaugh's help) soon gut the entirety of the administrative state based on his very politically convenient views on nondelegation, conveniently forgetting his views on nondelegation when it came to whether the Secretary of Commerce's decisions in the census case were subject to any meaningful judicial review. There's no reason to believe that the conservative justices operate in good faith, and many reasons to believe that they don't. Hell, at least Thomas is consistent and honest about what he's doing.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

56 minutes ago, Chrispy_ said:

The Democrats making their case for impeachment during Thanksgiving and Christmas shopping is truly bizarre. 

Isn't this a little like telling people to go out and about after 9/11 (Giuliani) or with a recession looming, telling people to go shopping (G. Bush 2006)? Why place your own needs above the country's? That is not very patriotic is it? What could be more important than ensuring that your representatives are performing their obligations on behalf of the electorate?

Quote

“I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

 

[Chooky 13319]

2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

 

These aren't the Americans searching Peloton.

[Guest Lobo]

I dunno, that little blonde milf over the grandma's right shoulder (with the vulcan eyebrows) looks like once she takes off her resting racist face, she could be kinda fit n' sexy.  

[Chrispy_ 105]

21 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Isn't this a little like telling people to go out and about after 9/11 (Giuliani) or with a recession looming, telling people to go shopping (G. Bush 2006)? Why place your own needs above the country's? That is not very patriotic is it? What could be more important than ensuring that your representatives are performing their obligations on behalf of the electorate?

 

I’m not telling anyone to do anything. Fundamentally, I agree with you, it’s just that it isn’t realistic. I understand why people disengage from politics, hell I have myself lately. Politics move terribly slow, are very toxic, and there’s a whole lot of losing and/or not getting what you want. Even when Republicans win, the excitement is very short lived because it’s on to the next battle. It can be very draining. 
 

The cynical part of me understands why the the Democrats played it this way; so as to file it in the “at least we tried” folder and people can move on fairly quickly. 

[Tuco 5077]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

I just want to quote this post to show that simply posting a graph, completely devoid of any meaningful information, is somehow compelling to idiots.  "Hey, look Martha, there's two lines and some numbers on the left hand side.  That seals it, let's buy that bridge. " No link.  No labels on either axis.  No context.  Just a picture, with colors. That's all it takes to convince Trumpsters that they are informed.  Nevermind the fact that apparently "impeachment", like "Peloton", is trending upwards.  It's not just "low information voters," it's "no-critical thinking voters" who are unable or uninterested in evaluating the information they gladly consume. 

...and to follow up on this, from Thursday Dec 5:

1. Nancy Pelosi  - 200k searches

2. Camila Cabello Romance - 100k 

3. Mulan - 100k

4. V Wars - 100k

5. Aaliyah - 100k 

What does that mean?  Not a hell of a lot.  But, heh, "Dotard" was weighing in at #12 with 50k searches. 

Link

 

Edit to add link of Peloton v. impeachment trend.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Tuco