impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Bozo's definition is that of a conservative in a classical liberal tradition.  Which at one time, more or less, the GOP stood for.  Or at least was more closely aligned than the Democratic Party.

Obviously, it doesn't stand for any of those things now.

I think there are a couple of major problems that set the GOP on the road to perdition.  The first permeates both parties, and that is putting the desire to get (re)elected and retain power ahead of the desire to do good things for the country in keeping with your platform.  And that implicates money and becoming beholden to those with the gold.

The second is a more uniquely GOP problem and that is the social aspect of conservatism.  The traditional role of a conservative is to oppose or question new (expensive and expansive) government programs, many ostensibly promoting some social good.  The role is to question whether it is good and effective policy, whether it will have dire unintended consequences, and whether it just costs too damn much, as nice as it might be to have.  That role is extremely valuable, I think, in producing compromise that still permits progress, while not spending directly into oblivion or turning into a grotesque welfare state.  The role is not to demonize the beneficiaries of that program as somehow undeserving, of either the program or citizenship or life itself.

I think the second is directly traceable to the influence of religiosity in politics, as noted by Goldwater.  Note the use of the term "religiosity."  It is not synonymous with religion, but can overlap, for sure.

Because of the first, the GOP could no longer make any claim to fiscal conservatism.  For a while, it was able to attract voters based on "social conservatism" or the culture war that became increasingly ugly and untethered from any policy goal.  But, as the population changed, that lost the ability to secure sufficient votes to insure election.

Trump came up with this toxic populist, nationalist, fucking The Apprentice platform thing that mobilized the idiots and got the fucker elected.  Because the GOP doesn't really have any sort of viable platform anymore, it has seized on Trumpism in a last-ditch effort to retain power.

That's my theory, anyway.

Very well said. Quoted to put on the next page. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Conservative talk not going away.

 

Regarding the discussion on previous page with Bolton testifying. Also, a few quotes from the article.

Quote

Schiff could not resist a dig at Turley, pointing out to me that he had served as the House manager in a Senate impeachment trial of a federal judge, going up against Turley, a few years ago, “and on all four counts the judge was convicted and on all four Turley said there was no impeachable crime here, so his track record is less than perfect.”

Quote

I asked about the attacks on him from his Republican colleagues, who earlier this fall insisted on a House resolution to censure him, which failed on a party-line vote. “I don’t know whether they are trying to do anything more than mollify the President,” Schiff said. He is under no illusions about the place he now occupies in the President’s hierarchy of enemies. “The President’s strategy with everything is basically the same: don’t defend his misconduct, attack whoever stands up to him,” Schiff told me. “The members of Congress take their cue from the President, so they will go after anybody the President wants them to go after.”

Quote

The other conversation that Schiff cited was Sondland’s memorable encounter with David Holmes, a diplomat in the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv. Holmes overheard Sondland talking on the phone with Trump, who asked if Zelensky would pursue the investigations he wanted. After the call, Holmes asked Sondland, “Does the President give a shit about Ukraine?” As Holmes testified, the answer was no, he only cares about “the big stuff.” Well, Holmes pointed out, there is big stuff happening in Ukraine, like a war with Russia, but Sondland said no, that was not what he meant. Trump only cared about matters that concerned him, like the investigations. “That says it all,” Schiff told me. “The President doesn’t give a shit about what’s good for our country, what’s good for Ukraine. It’s all about what’s in it for him personally and for his reëlection campaign.” In that small moment in an obscure diplomat’s testimony, Schiff reflected, was the impeachment case in all its brazen simplicity. “That is a perfect summary,” he said, “of this whole scheme.”

 

[achooloco 1072]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:13 AM, Chrispy_ said:

I chuckled. I know Republicans aren’t welcome here, so I’ll keep my interaction to a minimum. 

For the record, republicans are. Conservatives are. Child torturing, racist loving, constitution stomping Traitorous shitheads like you and yours... not so much. 

[Celery Man 20981]

Lots of conservatives are on here without issue, but it’s not a safe space for Trump enablers to pretend that they aren’t what they are (and not be called on it relentlessly).

[Tuco 5077]

Nobody is going to normalize your bullshit.

[notre dame joe 191]

23 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Como?

se dice

[notre dame joe 191]

9 hours ago, bolverk said:

You should also consider the role of Pat Buchanan's culture wars within your thesis regarding the revolutionary takeover of the GOP.

If he wasn't a warning sign in 1996, you were asleep at the wheel.

Pat Buchanan had two signature issues. 

He warned if we didn't control illegal immigration we would soon have a major crisis in the country.  Right thinking people: that's racist

 

He warned if we signed onto free trade agreements then our industry would move to cheap labor countries.  Right thinking people: that's racist

 

You won't hear him mentioned on the news today. Those right thinking people don't want to remember that Pat Buchanan was right. 

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

From Wikipedia:

In a 1989 column, Buchanan called for the lynching of a 16-year old black teenager and the horsewhipping of four other younger African-American and Hispanic teenagers for having allegedly raped a white jogger in the Central Park Five case. He also called for the civilization of "barbarians" by putting the "fear of death" in them. Although the five teenagers were convicted, in 2002 the actual perpetrator of the crime confessed and DNA testing showed that he was guilty, and the convictions for the five teenagers were overturned.

Sound familiar?

[JimmyJames 12271]

Buchanan wrote that it was impossible for 850,000 Jews to be killed by diesel exhaust fed into the gas chamber at Treblinka in a column for the New York Post in 1990.^[25] Buchanan once argued Treblinka "was not a death camp but a transit camp used as a 'pass-through point' for prisoners". In fact, some 900,000 Jews had died at Treblinka.^[26] When George Will challenged him about it on TV, Buchanan did not reply. In 1991, William F. Buckley Jr. wrote a 40,000-word National Review article discussing anti-Semitism among conservative commentators focused largely on Buchanan; the article and many responses to it were collected in the book In Search of Anti-Semitism (1992). He concluded: "I find it impossible to defend Pat Buchanan against the charge that what he did and said during the period under examination amounted to anti-Semitism."^[27][28]

[JimmyJames 12271]

If you are a confederate flag waiving white supremacist holocaust denier who thinks both Hitler and Nixon got a raw deal, then Pat Buchanan is your man.

And he definitely inspired Trump!

[JimmyJames 12271]

37 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

Pat Buchanan had two signature issues. 

He warned if we didn't control illegal immigration we would soon have a major crisis in the country.  Right thinking people: that's racist

 

He warned if we signed onto free trade agreements then our industry would move to cheap labor countries.  Right thinking people: that's racist

 

You won't hear him mentioned on the news today. Those right thinking people don't want to remember that Pat Buchanan was right. 

 

Fuck off fake catholic troll.

[notre dame joe 191]

If I'd known I could trigger someone I'd have talked to the Wisconsin offense. 

[deech 2291]

It didn't start with Pat.  Watch the Roger Stone documentary on Netflix.  

[troph 24898]

Pat Buchanan had two signature issues. 
He warned if we didn't control illegal immigration we would soon have a major crisis in the country.  Right thinking people: that's racist
 
He warned if we signed onto free trade agreements then our industry would move to cheap labor countries.  Right thinking people: that's racist
 
You won't hear him mentioned on the news today. Those right thinking people don't want to remember that Pat Buchanan was right. 
 

The major crisis isn’t illegal immigration - though the real immigration crisis is due to a duplicitous immigration policy that encourages the creation a labor underclass and Americans who are technically illegal (dreamers) but for all intents and purposes Americans.

Yes we need strong borders, even walls extended where it makes sense. More technology, more funding, more officers, etc. I honestly don’t know a single person that disagrees with this.

The real crisis is there is a destabilizing world to our south and folks really are seeking asylum and we are forsaking our values.

The real crisis isn’t free trade and agreements cross border and allowing borders to open for trade, the real crisis the concentration of power among a few insanely wealthy families and companies that have far too much influence over tax and labor policies.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

It didn't start with Pat.  Watch the Roger Stone documentary on Netflix.  

It started with Roger Ailes when he worked for Nixon and Lee Atwater when he worked for Reagan.

[David Dennison 18940]

15 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Pat Buchanan had two signature issues. 

He warned if we didn't control illegal immigration we would soon have a major crisis in the country.  Right thinking people: that's racist

 

He warned if we signed onto free trade agreements then our industry would move to cheap labor countries.  Right thinking people: that's racist

 

You won't hear him mentioned on the news today. Those right thinking people don't want to remember that Pat Buchanan was right. 

And the Republican Party did everything in its power to implement policies opposite to those Pat Buchanan advocated.

Conservatives whining in 2019 about free trade and cheap labor is hilarious given what has happened since the Reagan administration.

Shall we look at the roll call votes for NAFTA?

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by David Dennison

[TwiceHorn 31515]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Really and truly, because impeachment is a political process in which the courts will not intervene, what is an impeachable offense is what the House says is an impeachable offense.

As long as a couple or more not-too-fringey constitutional scholars are willing to go along with it, it's completely legitimate.  The dissent of Turley (who is actually kind of fringey himself) is meaningless.

[bad_teammate 13221]

She's supremely awful.

 

[David Dennison 18940]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

She's supremely awful.

 

You should probably stop voting for Democrats.

[bad_teammate 13221]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You should probably stop voting for Democrats.

Who should I vote for?

[jimmyjazz 46002]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who should I vote for?

Well, Trump.  Or any other right wing piece of shit who tells you what you secretly want to hear.

Modern "Libertarians" are a joke.  We've already established this.

[bad_teammate 13221]

What is it I secretly want to hear? That we should've impeached George W Bush because he lied us into a forever war?

Is that a right-wing thing?

[Junior Miller 1502]

Democrats are definitely not going to save this country from the death spiral it's it, but they're definitely a more pleasant and likely slower path to destruction. 

[triplehorn 2664]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

She's supremely awful.

 

Pelosi voted NAY for the 2002 AUMF that lead to the Iraq invasion.  Not leading impeachment of Bush in 2007 when she took the gavel for the first time for 2002-2003?  I get where you're coming from, but the realities 3-4 years later were more complicated than that.  Not saying she or anyone gets a pass, just that calling her "supremely awful" for that is your radical showing.

------>>>> Of particular note in the clip above, notice she specifically mentions they are waiting on the courts to rule in order to provide testimony and evidence from the Mueller investigation before dropping the sledgehammer on Trump/Russia 2016.  It's coming. 

and fuck that traitorous tub of goo Bill Barr.

[bad_teammate 13221]

When is it ever uncomplicated?

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

From the Hugh Hewitt Office of Misleading Information comes this:

Which is rebutted by this:

Chairman Nadler has indicated they will be continuing discussion this week.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

What is it I secretly want to hear? 

Who gives a fuck?

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

I secretly want to hear that when I make chocolate cream pie with whipped cream it has zero calories, but that ain't gonna happen.

Here is a take on impeachment from Jon Cooper. Not something I had considered, that they could sit on it after drawing it up. The kicker is that stupid budget deadline on the 20th. You know Mitch has probably leaned on Nancy and that's why the calendar was cleared in January. I would love it if those pursuing impeachment have figured out a way to pull the rug out from under the smug ones who know this is done once it reaches the Senate, but I fear that is all but impossible.

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

I'm going to try and spoiler this because it is a super long twitter thread. It covers things many of you already know, but lays out the timeline. I hope I did the spoiler right.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[HenryJames 66135]

CHIEF

[Biff Tannen 45696]

Is he referring to himself in the 3rd person?

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Is he referring to himself in the 3rd person?

Yes, yes he is. 

Perhaps he has the butthurt because Harvard prof Laurence Tribe spent the weekend working with Democratic Judicial peeps on impeachment. 

[notre dame joe 191]

13 hours ago, troph said:

The major crisis isn’t illegal immigration - though the real immigration crisis is due to a duplicitous immigration policy that encourages the creation a labor underclass and Americans who are technically illegal (dreamers) but for all intents and purposes Americans.

Yes we need strong borders, even walls extended where it makes sense. More technology, more funding, more officers, etc. I honestly don’t know a single person that disagrees with this.

The real crisis is there is a destabilizing world to our south and folks really are seeking asylum and we are forsaking our values.

The real crisis isn’t free trade and agreements cross border and allowing borders to open for trade, the real crisis the concentration of power among a few insanely wealthy families and companies that have far too much influence over tax and labor policies.

How do ya figure?

[HenryJames 66135]

Everyone knows your first term is a mulligan.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Crimes are okay if done in first term. 

[Tuco 5077]

And, he has to have the caveat "...in modern history" because Johnson was impeached without winning an election. So, one out of the three impeachments happened in the first term.  

[Biff Tannen 45696]

41 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Everyone knows your first term is a mulligan.

People will believe this.  A shit ton of people.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

[Biff Tannen 45696]

What is their argument about Schiff?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What is their argument about Schiff?

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT 

[HenryJames 66135]

 

[DDD Dad 14346]

They wanted to call him as a witness.

Some nonsense about him communicating directly with the whistleblower and of course misstating the perfect call.

[Biff Tannen 45696]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT 

 

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

They wanted to call him as a witness.

Some nonsense about him communicating directly with the whistleblower and of course misstating the perfect call.

As I figured.  Hard to keep up with their baseless conspiracy theories.

[HenryJames 66135]

Democrats need their own sign:

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

I don't even have the volume on and Doug Collins is annoying me. 

[HenryJames 66135]

Mr. Biggs?

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

1 minute ago, HenryJames said:

Mr. Biggs?

Spoken in Hank Hill's voice. 

[atomheartbevo 89763]

25 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

.

From a friend whose former roommate still runs in that circle, the only folks still around Alex Jones are the true believers

Edited December 9, 2019 by atomheartbevo