impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[henrygandorf 29195]

11 minutes ago, Tuco said:

My guess is that areas with a very strong union block will lean Trump nationally, but Dem locally due to union/party interaction at the local level.

right, i get that, and i don't disagree.

but what these stories suggest is that these voters, with union/party ties to the dem candidate, but who support trump nationally, will only vote for the local dem if that candidate opposes impeachment.  that if they vote along party lines, that trump supporter will all of a sudden support the (r) that didn't have their interest previously.

i feel like once you have the split loyalty like this, you're probably in it for the duration, impeachment vote be damned.

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

i don't think he does need to be banned. i think we need to understand exactly what the 42% are like.

I'm four hours behind and on Tappa so I don't know if he's been crowd sourced, but he should be. He's demonstrated he's a Trump troll. He's not acting in good faith. On the very small off chance he is, he's being willfully ignorant.

 

He'll be negged by me if he's still around when I get to a computer. The time for accepting these troll/ignorant takes has passed. By now everyone should know who and what Trump is. A corrupt President solely out for his personal interest.

 

[atomheartbevo 89828]

6 hours ago, Helobious said:

I also think he’s a lock to get re-elected. But I bet he and other politicians will probably think twice before engaging in these kind of activities again. Even though he’ll escape punishment there’s no questioning that this has been a massive pain in the ass for him.

You know who doesn’t think he’s a lock to get re-elected?  President Donald J Trump.  His twitter feed is that of somebody who is scared shitless he’s going to lose next year.  He drops dire threats about the Democrats winning in order to whip his base up.  He claims he’s done the bestest and mostest for the United States of America’s and therefore does not deserved to be impeached.  All he has are hollow threats and promises.   He promises farmers billions of dollars in welfare because of his fuckups, because he’s scared they will leave him   He works hard to create fear in his base, because he himself is full of fear.  He doesn’t know yet who the Dem candidate is going to be, and he fucked up royally in assuming it was a Uncle Joe   

And Trump still gets to face a collection of state AGs when he leaves office.    Sure, some politicians will continue to do shady shit like Trump, albeit on a much smaller scale, but actually they have to start worrying a bit.  Nunes is a prime example - he’s been facing some heat over his ties to Rudy’s people, and I have a feeling that the Dems and the media are not done with him.  
 

Hell, he’s at a campaign rally tonight, and why does he campaign so much?  Somebody who was sure they were a lock wouldn’t be constantly campaigning like he does.  

Edited December 11, 2019 by atomheartbevo

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

He also campaigns a lot because he likes the adulation. Even surrounded by agreeing nodding enablers, it is quite revealing when he learns of ridicule directed towards him. I said many weeks ago that making him the butt of jokes would diminish him in the eyes of his cult. (The anger they absorb and throw back). The danger, however, is that he lashes out when he senses the derision and as the leader of our country, that can be disastrous.

[Texas Jeff 1945]

Fun fact ... no president has been re-elected after impeachment.  Of course, that's not a long list, only Johnson could have been re-elected.

However, both Johnson and Clinton ended up with a family member in the Senate, post-presidency.  Johnson ran for a Senate seat and won, becoming the only ex-president to serve in the Senate.  Clinton never became a senator but Hillary did.

[jimmyjazz 46227]

I can't even fathom how much he must hate his base.  Donald Trump may be crass, and nowhere near as wealthy as he wants us to believe, but one way or another he's spent his life living an extraordinarily privileged lifestyle.  His whole schtick has always been that he's a rich New York elite whose station in life is many levels above that of the working class.  His contempt for the fawning toads at his rallies must be off the charts.

[TexArcher 38076]

49 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can't even fathom how much he must hate his base.  Donald Trump may be crass, and nowhere near as wealthy as he wants us to believe, but one way or another he's spent his life living an extraordinarily privileged lifestyle.  His whole schtick has always been that he's a rich New York elite whose station in life is many levels above that of the working class.  His contempt for the fawning toads at his rallies must be off the charts.

Yep.

It's occured to me that there's an interesting symmetry happening. 

Trump's fans idolize him because they think he's cut from the same cloth.  But he looks down on them as a bunch of rubes that he can play like a fiddle.

At the same time, Trump idolizes Putin because he thinks they're cut from the same cloth.  But Putin looks down on Trump as a rube that he can play like a fiddle.

It takes a real bastard to use people that way and a real idiot to not be able to tell when it's happening to you.  Putin is the bastard.  Trump's supporters are the idiots.  And Trump is both the bastard and the idiot at the same time.

[Horn Dog 9946]

7 hours ago, BNB said:

I'll go back to just reading this channel every now and then, so I don't get negged off Surly

You are being negged, not cause you support Trump, but because everything yoi laid out is a lie or gross distortion.  Just once I would like to see one of you Trumpkins state a truthful defense of trumps actions.  Since you all just resort to lying and making shit up let me help you.  This is what your argument would look like if you were honest:

Yea what Trump did was wrong and immoral.  A president probably shouldn’t seek foreign interfere in our elections or promote Russian propaganda to harm our allies, but you know what?  I don’t give a shit cause he’s on my team.  And yea, maybe he shouldn’t be exploding the deficit, but fuck it I’ll be dead in a few decades and it isn’t my problem.  I am making bank and that’s what i care about.  Also I like that he makes people that I don’t like mad. I like that a lot.  I know what I am saying is not conducive to a healthy democracy but again I don’t give a flying fuck.  Its about me and my team.  
 

See....that is honest.  Just say it trumpkins.  You know you want to.  There are no consequences anymore so let it rip.  The honesty would be refreshing 
 

 

[Born to Run 6569]

You shouldn't do that.
Do the opposite.  His behavior to the extreme now normalizes it at all levels of magnitude.  What is happening now is the future order of things.
Ledge, dude.  That's the only rational place to be these days.

Motion to move the group meeting from a ledge to a nice driveway or Ramada conference room to start the Surly Grift Trumpkins Network.*

Come up with Grifts like Trumpy Bear or a baby Jesus anti war on Christmas figurine with a flag you pull out of his ass, or bullshit lawsuits. Utilize our talents.

Stack some paper and GTFO.

*Working title

[Bama Chick 28596]

I'm four hours behind and on Tappa so I don't know if he's been crowd sourced, but he should be. He's demonstrated he's a Trump troll. He's not acting in good faith. On the very small off chance he is, he's being willfully ignorant. 
He'll be negged by me if he's still around when I get to a computer. The time for accepting these troll/ignorant takes has passed. By now everyone should know who and what Trump is. A corrupt President solely out for his personal interest.
 

You can neg from Tapa.

Click anywhere on the post you want to neg and you’ll get this horizontal pop up -



Tap on “More” and you’ll see this option -



Tap on “Web View” and it will take you to the post in your browser -



Voila! Neg away!

[CowboyFred 1152]

22 hours ago, Zavala said:

 

 

 

Ok boomers

not a boomer.  you are still incorrect.

[4th&Five 41599]

 

[jimmyjazz 46227]

LOL, stupid libtards.  Just because the President is corrupt doesn't mean he isn't interested in fighting corruption.

[WhatTheBuck 28806]

43 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Lulz

Quote

In a statement, attorneys for Trump said: “The legacy of the Trump Foundation — which gave away many millions to those in need at virtually no cost — is secure.” They did not answer a reporter’s query about whether Trump intended to count the court-ordered $2 million payment on his taxes as a charitable deduction.

Zing!

(Also, of course he will.)

Edited December 11, 2019 by WhatTheBuck

[tantric superman 4668]

10 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

You are being negged, not cause you support Trump, but because everything yoi laid out is a lie or gross distortion.  Just once I would like to see one of you Trumpkins state a truthful defense of trumps actions.  Since you all just resort to lying and making shit up let me help you.  This is what your argument would look like if you were honest:

Yea what Trump did was wrong and immoral.  A president probably shouldn’t seek foreign interfere in our elections or promote Russian propaganda to harm our allies, but you know what?  I don’t give a shit cause he’s on my team.  And yea, maybe he shouldn’t be exploding the deficit, but fuck it I’ll be dead in a few decades and it isn’t my problem.  I am making bank and that’s what i care about.  Also I like that he makes people that I don’t like mad. I like that a lot.  I know what I am saying is not conducive to a healthy democracy but again I don’t give a flying fuck.  Its about me and my team.  
 

See....that is honest.  Just say it trumpkins.  You know you want to.  There are no consequences anymore so let it rip.  The honesty would be refreshing 

Well, I wouldn't say it this way, but this does get to the heart of the matter.  And in a weird way, if people were thoughtful about what you just expressed, they probably could calm down a bit. 

To me, support of Trump represents a profound cynicism, but deep down, a liberal, or anti-Trumpian viewpoint also is based on a deep cynicism of how the country works, and how it has been unjust.  

To me the most honest statement of Trumpism is that everyone lies, everyone cheats, so why should my guy play by the rules? 

The critique of that, ideologically, is that unless you establish some ethical boundaries, that road leads to ruin.  The critique of GOP rhetoric -- the claim that the Dems are worse than the GOP, -- is total bullshit.  It would be nice if they were honest.  

If one applies these words to where the two parties are leading us, they seem absolutely true:

More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopeless- ness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. -- Heywood "Woody" Allen

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45750]

11 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

To me the most honest statement of Trumpism is that everyone lies, everyone cheats, so why should my guy play by the rules? 

There is a difference between "everyone lies" and "myself and my chosen party disregard objective truth to suit our needs".

[Tuco 5084]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

There is a difference between "everyone lies" and "myself and my chosen party disregard objective truth to suit our needs".

I think the first statement is dependent upon the second.  They are convinced that Hillary Clinton murdered people and sold Uranium to Russia.  They are convinced the Obama directed his IRS to investigate conservative organizations and directed his FBI to spy on Trump.  They are convinced that Biden used government funds to prevent an Ukrainian investigation of his corrupt son.  

If you believed all of those things to be true, would you really worry about whether Trump leveraged government funds to instigate an investigation of Biden?  

The right wing media has been very effective in smearing Democrats and liberals.  But, more importantly, they have been successful in lowering the bar so much, that Trump can kill people, and they'd believe it was nothing abnormal. The truly scary thing is I think Trump may believe it as well. 

[Chrispy_ 105]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Man, I bet the famous Jon Favreau hates this shit. 

[tantric superman 4668]

Yep, as Tuco says.

The ethical person -- the person with ideals -- would endeavor to counteract all of these dastardly deeds by punishing those who perpetuate them and who take steps to perpetuate other crimes.   That person would, especially if he thinks humans are inherently fallible and tend toward mendacity and graft, try especially hard to support ethical actions in government. 

The Trumpkins simply don't give a shit. 

I think there observation of human frailties is spot on (although they are being dishonest about many Dem crimes).  For that I don't fault them.  I fault them for their failure to consider that there is a point in trying to limit crimes even when you side has the power.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The truly scary thing is I think Trump may believe it as well. 

Well, he sure seemed to act like the terrorist act at Pensacola was a nothingburger. The man who avoided war has no feeling for the sanctity of any life other than his own.

[SmokeyTheBear 5568]

4 minutes ago, Chrispy_ said:

Man, I bet the famous Jon Favreau hates this shit. 

[DDD Dad 14352]

9 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 

You can neg from Tapa.

Click anywhere on the post you want to neg and you’ll get this horizontal pop up -



Tap on “More” and you’ll see this option -



Tap on “Web View” and it will take you to the post in your browser -



Voila! Neg away!

 

Negged.  Too many clicks.

[Biff Tannen 45750]

9 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I think the first statement is dependent upon the second.  They are convinced that Hillary Clinton murdered people and sold Uranium to Russia.  They are convinced the Obama directed his IRS to investigate conservative organizations and directed his FBI to spy on Trump.  They are convinced that Biden used government funds to prevent an Ukrainian investigation of his corrupt son.  

If you believed all of those things to be true, would you really worry about whether Trump leveraged government funds to instigate an investigation of Biden?  

The right wing media has been very effective in smearing Democrats and liberals.  But, more importantly, they have been successful in lowering the bar so much, that Trump can kill people, and they'd believe it was nothing abnormal. The truly scary thing is I think Trump may believe it as well. 

Right.  We are dealing with a cult that has been fed disinformation for much of the past 30 years and it has now culminated with a demagogue in power who stokes that disinformation on a daily basis.  I guess my point is these aren't just people who have decided they aren't going to play by the rules.  They live in a complete fantasy world and their delusions should not be taken as some small inconvenience to the rest of us.

[Fozzz 152]

Wow, an actual decent piece in the Atlantic, and related to this farcical impeachment of all things.

Quote

As the House Judiciary Committee drafts articles of impeachment intended to remove President Donald Trump from office, let us pause to reflect on the subject of relative malfeasance. Allow me to stipulate that Trump is unfit for office. He is a coarse, vulgar, and dishonest demagogue. Yet I want to suggest that his transgressions, while notable, pale in comparison with a far greater crime that unfolded right before our eyes, for years, well before his election.

That crime is the Afghan War. Now, withholding security assistance from a beleaguered nation threatened by Russia in return for political favors is a despicable act. This is true even if that nation is one that Washington only recently decided to classify as vital to U.S. interests.  

But a misguided war that drags on inconclusively for more than 18 years is, I submit, a far greater crime. This is especially the case if that war has cost the United States more than $1 trillion, with 2,300 U.S. troops and more than 3,800 American contractors killed, and another 20,000 GIs wounded in action, many grievously. And that’s not counting the more than 100,000 members of Afghan security forces and Afghan civilians killed along the way.

No evidence exists to suggest that the United States and its allies are today winning this war. Indeed, the available evidence points in the opposite direction: The Taliban are growing in strength day by day. The on-again, off-again peace negotiations undertaken by the Trump administration amount to little more than a transparent effort to get out of Afghanistan, as the president has repeatedly promised to do, while creating a “decent interval” between the U.S. troop withdrawal and the eventual collapse of the Afghan regime in Kabul.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/if-ukraine-is-impeachable-whats-afghanistan/603334/

The fact that we are willing to support impeachment premised upon the delay of lethal aid of Ukraine (a rather dubious thing to be doing anyway), while we treat a colossal scandal that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people as business as usual seems to be a rather clear and ominous sign that our society is broken at a fundamental level.  Where are our priorities? 

[DDD Dad 14352]

11 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

You are being negged, not cause you support Trump, but because everything yoi laid out is a lie or gross distortion.  Just once I would like to see one of you Trumpkins state a truthful defense of trumps actions.  Since you all just resort to lying and making shit up let me help you.  This is what your argument would look like if you were honest:

Yea what Trump did was wrong and immoral.  A president probably shouldn’t seek foreign interfere in our elections or promote Russian propaganda to harm our allies, but you know what?  I don’t give a shit cause he’s on my team.  And yea, maybe he shouldn’t be exploding the deficit, but fuck it I’ll be dead in a few decades and it isn’t my problem.  I am making bank and that’s what i care about.  Also I like that he makes people that I don’t like mad. I like that a lot.  I know what I am saying is not conducive to a healthy democracy but again I don’t give a flying fuck.  Its about me and my team.  
 

See....that is honest.  Just say it trumpkins.  You know you want to.  There are no consequences anymore so let it rip.  The honesty would be refreshing 
 

 

So basically it's just like being a Patriots or Astros fan?

(ducking and running for cover)

[DDD Dad 14352]

11 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Wow, an actual decent piece in the Atlantic, and related to this farcical impeachment of all things.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/if-ukraine-is-impeachable-whats-afghanistan/603334/

The fact that we are willing to support impeachment premised upon the delay of lethal aid of Ukraine (a rather dubious thing to be doing anyway), while we treat a colossal scandal that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people as business as usual seems to be a rather clear and ominous sign that our society is broken at a fundamental level.  Where are our priorities? 

Remind me what President is in office who can be impeached for Afghanistan?

This is classic whataboutism and offers a misleading impression of the author's point.  If there indeed is a crime to prosecute for Afghanistan, by all means, proceed.  Regardless of this, Trump should be impeached and removed for his high crimes and misdemeanors that no one really disputes.  

The article doesn't suggest that the impeachment proceedings are farcical.  It suggests that there are other, worse crimes that should be addressed by Congress as well.

Quote

If those offenses meet the standard of high crimes and misdemeanors, then how are we to classify what has occurred in Afghanistan since U.S. forces first arrived in 2001? And who will demand accountability? After finishing with Trump, Congress has long-overdue work to do.

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by DDD Dad

[Dahobbs 17694]

18 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Wow, an actual decent piece in the Atlantic, and related to this farcical impeachment of all things.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/if-ukraine-is-impeachable-whats-afghanistan/603334/

The fact that we are willing to support impeachment premised upon the delay of lethal aid of Ukraine (a rather dubious thing to be doing anyway), while we treat a colossal scandal that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people as business as usual seems to be a rather clear and ominous sign that our society is broken at a fundamental level.  Where are our priorities? 

Go fuck yourself. 

[wildcat09 29421]

Does anyone doubt for one second that, if Trump were being impeached for something related to the war in Afghanistan, Rocko would be pretending it's bullshit?

[Fozzz 152]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

Remind me what President is in office who can be impeached for Afghanistan?

This is classic whataboutism.  If there indeed is a crime to prosecute for Afghanistan, by all means, proceed.  Regardless of this, Trump should be impeached and removed for his high crimes and misdemeanors that no one really disputes.

In view of the information included in the Afghanistan Papers, Congress should establish a committee to investigate the GWB, Obama, and Trump administrations to uncover their concealment of the US' mission in Afghanistan and the lack of "progress" in achieving that mission from the public.  With respect to impeachment and Trump, the President is not allowed to wantonly lie to and mislead the public, and such a charge was made against Nixon in the proceedings against him.  

[Fozzz 152]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Does anyone doubt for one second that, if Trump were being impeached for something related to the war in Afghanistan, Rocko would be pretending it's bullshit?

Do you really think I'm Rocko or is meant to be a joke or something?

[BrazilHorn 6635]

Trump’s defense is the same as Lance Armstrong’s

”hate the game not the player” “everyone cheats, why shouldn’t I?” Etc etc

if all this only ends up with a letter of censure it’s been total political theatre. 
Vote the old guard out and get people in willing to fight. 

[horn4life 3783]

I don't think you are even going to get a letter of censure.

The GOP Senate's plan is to do a "bonfire investigation" where some things happened, and by golly gosh we wish people hadn't died, but there really was nobody accountable for anything.

[Chad Fuck 17811]

5 minutes ago, horn4life said:

I don't think you are even going to get a letter of censure.

The GOP Senate's plan is to do a "bonfire investigation" where some things happened, and by golly gosh we wish people hadn't died, but there really was nobody accountable for anything.

^This.

The Senate is going to confirm that the President can do whatever he wants, because reasons.  That's glib, but true.

And forevermore, no one will have to comply with Congressional subpoenas because, why would they?  There are no consequences, especially for Presidents.

The investigative role of Congress will be effectively eliminated, and the President will be an unchecked dictator from January 2020 until forever.

The rabid dog will be off the leash.  

[4th&Five 41599]

Just now, Chad Fuck said:

^This.

The Senate is going to confirm that the GOP President can do whatever he wants, because reasons.  That's glib, but true.

And forevermore, no one will have to comply with Democratic Congressional subpoenas because, why would they?  There are no consequences, especially for GOP Presidents.

The investigative role of Congress will be effectively eliminated, and the GOP President will be an unchecked dictator from January 2020 until forever.

The rabid dog will be off the leash.  

fixed

[Rougarou 594]

[Dahobbs 17694]

38 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Wow, an actual decent piece in the Atlantic, and related to this farcical impeachment of all things.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/if-ukraine-is-impeachable-whats-afghanistan/603334/

The fact that we are willing to support impeachment premised upon the delay of lethal aid of Ukraine (a rather dubious thing to be doing anyway), while we treat a colossal scandal that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people as business as usual seems to be a rather clear and ominous sign that our society is broken at a fundamental level.  Where are our priorities? 

I'll also add that your characterization of the reason for impeachment is laughable and incomplete. We aren't impeaching the President because his conduct hurt Ukraine or denied them "lethal aid." We are impeaching the President because he attempted to use the office of Presidency for the sole purpose of benefiting himself personally and politically; and he in doing so he ignored our actual national interests, congressional legislation, and his constitutional duties, particularly when he personally requested that a foreign power interfere in our democratic elections. In short, we are impeaching him because his actions directly hurt us. Again, go fuck yourself, you disingenuous twat waffle. 

[Biff Tannen 45750]

4 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

^This.

The Senate is going to confirm that the President can do whatever he wants, because reasons.  That's glib, but true.

And forevermore, no one will have to comply with Congressional subpoenas because, why would they?  There are no consequences, especially for Presidents.

The investigative role of Congress will be effectively eliminated, and the President will be an unchecked dictator from January 2020 until forever.

The rabid dog will be off the leash.  

 

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

fixed

Correct.  When/if a Dem gets the presidency, the Rs will reverse course entirely and immediately start to try to impeach on whatever made up bullshit they can come up with.  This isn't about having rules.  It's about maintaining and/or stealing power.  Until we the people stand up to this, via ballot box or other means, it will not stop.

[Red Five 40898]

Remember that time he made illegal payments to porn stars. Seems like they could make room for that in impeachment hearings, but what do I know. 

[Fozzz 152]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'll also add that your characterization of the reason for impeachment is laughable and incomplete. We aren't impeaching the President because his conduct hurt Ukraine or denied them "lethal aid." We are impeaching the President because he attempted to use the office of Presidency for the sole purpose of benefiting himself personally and politically; and he in doing so he ignored our actual national interests, congressional legislation, and his constitutional duties, particularly when he personally requested that a foreign power interfere in our democratic elections. In short, we are impeaching him because his actions directly hurt us. Again, go fuck yourself, you disingenuous twat waffle. 

How many people died from what Trump did?  What material harm was caused?  That's the point i'm making here.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5797]

3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

^This.

The Senate is going to confirm that the President can do whatever he wants, because reasons.  That's glib, but true.

And forevermore, no one will have to comply with Congressional subpoenas because, why would they?  There are no consequences, especially for Presidents.

The investigative role of Congress will be effectively eliminated, and the President will be an unchecked dictator from January 2020 until forever.

The rabid dog will be off the leash.  

 

Well. At that point the Senate Republicans will be rolling the dice that Donald doesn't make them look bad for that vote. There's a lot more coming, with the biggest being his taxes... 

I'm also hoping the Dems have a few more tricks up their sleeve. I know the Dems are a constant disappointment, but I'm hoping for something like this to happen.... 

 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5797]

4 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

How many people died from what Trump did?  What material harm was caused?  That's the point i'm making here.

[jimmyjazz 46227]

5 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

How many people died from what Trump did?  What material harm was caused?  That's the point i'm making here.

Yep, nobody has died at the border.  Good point.  For starters.

[hayden_horn 11365]

it's difficult to quantify how many ukrainians may have died because of the hold up of military aid. but i would wager it's more than 1. 

[Fozzz 152]

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

it's difficult to quantify how many ukrainians may have died because of the hold up of military aid. but i would wager it's more than 1. 

The provision of lethal aid is more likely to get more people killed, which is why Obama decided against it.

[Tuco 5084]

7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The provision of lethal aid is more likely to get more people killed, which is why Obama decided against it.

No, that's not why Obama did not provide lethal aid.  If you had followed Hill's testimony, you'd know that. 

[otisdog 365]

23 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

How many people died from what Trump did?  What material harm was caused?  That's the point i'm making here.

It was just a democracy...the toll will be unknown for years.

[Fozzz 152]

11 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

He's being impeached because of his administration's treatment of migrants?  

[SmokeyTheBear 5568]

5 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

He's being impeached because of his administration's treatment of migrants?  

You disingenuous speck of cock cheese. He is being impeached because his Presidential ethos is and always has been, do what benefits the Trump name. Not America, its people or its interests. Just the Trump brand. 

[Fozzz 152]

3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

No, that's not why Obama did not provide lethal aid.  If you had followed Hill's testimony, you'd know that. 

lol that's such a load of shit.  Obama had no issue with providing missiles to Islamic extremists in Syria but Ukraine's military wasn't sophisticated enough to use our weapons?  Obama knew that giving Ukraine weapons wouldn't achieve anything other than pointless escalation.  Russia has escalation dominance in Ukraine, we don't.  

[Captainant 27828]

8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol that's such a load of shit.  Obama had no issue with providing missiles to Islamic extremists in Syria but Ukraine's military wasn't sophisticated enough to use our weapons?  Obama knew that giving Ukraine weapons wouldn't achieve anything other than pointless escalation.  Russia has escalation dominance in Ukraine, we don't.  

Negged for talking out of your ass spouting unsupported talking points and completely dismissing the sworn testimony from a career expert that disagrees with you.