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impeachment inquiry hearings thread

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45903

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Spring Branch Horn said:

DOJ threw them out for another reason   (no underlying crime)

Uh, what?  Mueller brought and spun off numerous crimes.  He specifically stated that it was DOJ policy to not indict a sitting President, and that this is what guided their lack of action.

I mean, if you're just gonna troll, fine, but on the off chance you actually have an interest in the truth, catch up.

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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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Spring Branch Horn

Spring Branch Horn 124

Posted
Posted
Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Uh, what?  Mueller brought and spun off numerous crimes.  He specifically stated that it was DOJ policy to not indict a sitting President, and that this is what guided their lack of action.

I mean, if you're just gonna troll, fine, but on the off chance you actually have an interest in the truth, catch up.

Trying to catch up  -   still reading the IG Report  -  man the FBI was sloppy  :)

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11296

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Spring Branch Horn said:

A federal judge yesterday fined Bill Clinton over $90,000 (£57,000) for denying under oath that he had had sex with Monica Lewinsky, in an unprecedented penalty imposed on an incumbent US president.

The fine was ordered by Judge Susan Webber Wright, three months after she found him guilty of contempt for giving false testimony in a sexual harassment case brought against him by a former Arkansas government employee, Paula Jones.

I believe that was a civil case...hence, not indicted.  Next?

PS - If you want to see indictments of a former President, you're in for a treat once Trump is out of office.

Edited by DixonHur
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DixonHur

DixonHur 11296

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Spring Branch Horn said:

Trying to catch up  -   still reading the IG Report  -  man the FBI was sloppy  :)

Imagine that...a law enforcement agency being sloppy with paper work.  

I think you'd find it more difficult to find warrant applications, from any law enforcement agency,  without mistakes than ones with them.

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Goredho

Goredho 17399

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I'm not sure how impeaching him is a political error.  Is your contention that impeaching him will cause people to vote for him?

 

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Then America is over.

And that's OK.

 

21 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

jesus, if i didn't have a work appointment at 3:00pm, this post would be my signal to head on home and have a fucking drink.

 

20 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Okay, let's pretend the House never moved to impeach.  How would that have changed any of the above?  

Let me start by saying I could be wrong and I hope like hell I am, but...

As the overmatched opponent, It is better to lie in wait ready to seize an opportunity when it is presented than it is to overestimate an opportunity, act and fail.  If the Dems fail, they will have shown themselves to be completely powerless to stop the conservative movement.  They will be the political equivalent of Garrett Gilbert after 54774579 interceptions at K-State.  No one, least of all their supporters, will have faith in their ability to serve as any sort of effective opposition to Trump, McConnell, etc...  

That is a much worse position to be in.  All you have are empty threats that everyone knows is utterly meaningless bullshit.  Before the showdown demonstrating exactly how powerless you are,  you have opportunity.  After, you have none.  You have lost the illusion of power that coupled with moral or intellectual correctness gives you the ability to serve as a  counter against the more powerful majority.  It will have to get a lot worse over a lot longer time for the tide to turn.

Is that risk worth the completely futile attempt to remove the President less than 12 months before the voters could send him packing?

We’ll fucking see.

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Spring Branch Horn

Spring Branch Horn 124

Posted
Posted
Just now, Goredho said:

 

 

 

Let me start by saying I could be wrong and I hope like hell I am, but...

As the overmatched opponent, It is better to lie in wait ready to seize an opportunity when it is presented than it is to overestimate an opportunity, act and fail.  If the Dems fail, they will have shown themselves to be completely powerless to stop the conservative movement.  They will be the political equivalent of Garrett Gilbert after 54774579 interceptions at K-State.  No one, least of all their supporters, will have faith in their ability to serve as any sort of effective opposition to Trump, McConnell, etc...  

That is a much worse position to be in.  All you have are empty threats that everyone knows is utterly meaningless bullshit.  Before the showdown demonstrating exactly how powerless you are,  you have opportunity.  After, you have none.  You have lost the illusion of power that coupled with moral or intellectual correctness gives you the ability to serve as a  counter against the more powerful majority.  It will have to get a lot worse over a lot longer time for the tide to turn.

Is that risk worth the completely futile attempt to remove the President less than 12 months before the voters could send him packing?

We’ll fucking see.

I agree  -  I think that he had no chance before impeachment

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45676

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

 

 

 

Let me start by saying I could be wrong and I hope like hell I am, but...

As the overmatched opponent, It is better to lie in wait ready to seize an opportunity when it is presented than it is to overestimate an opportunity, act and fail.  If the Dems fail, they will have shown themselves to be completely powerless to stop the conservative movement.  They will be the political equivalent of Garrett Gilbert after 54774579 interceptions at K-State.  No one, least of all their supporters, will have faith in their ability to serve as any sort of effective opposition to Trump, McConnell, etc...  

That is a much worse position to be in.  All you have are empty threats that everyone knows is utterly meaningless bullshit.  Before the showdown demonstrating exactly how powerless you are,  you have opportunity.  After, you have none.  You have lost the illusion of power that coupled with moral or intellectual correctness gives you the ability to serve as a  counter against the more powerful majority.  It will have to get a lot worse over a lot longer time for the tide to turn.

Is that risk worth the completely futile attempt to remove the President less than 12 months before the voters could send him packing?

We’ll fucking see.

I still don't see how one affects the other.  I believe someone upthread mentioned it already.  If the Dems RIGHTFULLY impeach the president and it somehow causes people to vote for him, then we were already lost anyway.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26447

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

So who's sock is SBH?  Is it Clearlake Horn reborn?

Old head from Hornfans. Was often unfairly confused with @Clearlakehorn back when he was a normal conservative and @Tennesseehorn, who used to use emoji extensively.   I'm glad he's here. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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7 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Let me start by saying I could be wrong and I hope like hell I am, but...

As the overmatched opponent, It is better to lie in wait ready to seize an opportunity when it is presented than it is to overestimate an opportunity, act and fail.  If the Dems fail, they will have shown themselves to be completely powerless to stop the conservative movement.  They will be the political equivalent of Garrett Gilbert after 54774579 interceptions at K-State.  No one, least of all their supporters, will have faith in their ability to serve as any sort of effective opposition to Trump, McConnell, etc...  

That is a much worse position to be in.  All you have are empty threats that everyone knows is utterly meaningless bullshit.  Before the showdown demonstrating exactly how powerless you are,  you have opportunity.  After, you have none.  You have lost the illusion of power that coupled with moral or intellectual correctness gives you the ability to serve as a  counter against the more powerful majority.  It will have to get a lot worse over a lot longer time for the tide to turn.

Is that risk worth the completely futile attempt to remove the President less than 12 months before the voters could send him packing?

We’ll fucking see.

impeachment won't change a thing, because of the partisan climate in this country.

as much as congress wants to push the notion that this is "political theater for the american people", the only people actively engaged in the hearings already know which side they're on, and their vote was decided long ago.

but looking forward, the house had no choice but to impeach, even if the false narrative that it would help trump were true (it isn't).  if they did nothing, trump would go about his mob-boss business, with zero guard rails, and it would establish a terrible precedent.  you don't stop arresting bad guys even if the system is corrupt.

the house needed this to prove they're a co-equal branch.  trump has been ignoring the entire investigation, thus rendering congress impotent.  if you can't see how problematic that is, then you're too far gone already.

trump is fucked in 2020, even with the outdated electoral college on his side.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22694

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Spring Branch Horn said:

I agree  -  I think that he had no chance before impeachment

 Nobody actually feels sorry for Trump or whatever bullshit reasoning they give, they just are looking to latch onto a socially acceptable explanation for the vote they were always going to cast.  

As for the "it's just going to motivate the Republican base!!1!!" talk... well I can't think of a bigger motivator for Democrats than "we have just shown you that this election is literally the only way to get him out."  

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29349

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Goredho said:

 

 

 

Let me start by saying I could be wrong and I hope like hell I am, but...

As the overmatched opponent, It is better to lie in wait ready to seize an opportunity when it is presented than it is to overestimate an opportunity, act and fail.  If the Dems fail, they will have shown themselves to be completely powerless to stop the conservative movement.  They will be the political equivalent of Garrett Gilbert after 54774579 interceptions at K-State.  No one, least of all their supporters, will have faith in their ability to serve as any sort of effective opposition to Trump, McConnell, etc...  

That is a much worse position to be in.  All you have are empty threats that everyone knows is utterly meaningless bullshit.  Before the showdown demonstrating exactly how powerless you are,  you have opportunity.  After, you have none.  You have lost the illusion of power that coupled with moral or intellectual correctness gives you the ability to serve as a  counter against the more powerful majority.  It will have to get a lot worse over a lot longer time for the tide to turn.

Is that risk worth the completely futile attempt to remove the President less than 12 months before the voters could send him packing?

We’ll fucking see.

Literally doing nothing for four years and seeing Trump get reelected would do the same.

The Democrats have approached every single political fight for the past thirty years with the strategy to immediately concede if they can't guarantee victory in hopes that playing the honorable loser will win them votes. But that approach never wins votes, it loses votes. Voters don't like a party of pussies that only ever decide to act when some polls indicate that something is sufficiently popular. They have to actually act like they believe what they say. They can't spend four years talking about Trump's lawlessness without exercising the limited power they have to attempt to stop it, watch Trump get re-elected, and expect for anyone to still believe they have any power.   

Impeachment was never about removal, given the makeup of the Senate. Impeachment was about using the process as a megaphone to explain to undecided voters and nonvoters the breadth of Trump's crimes and the danger he poses to the republic, as well as the GOP's complicity. I think they've fucked up the execution by focusing too narrowly on Ukraine, but at least they finally took the field.

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