impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

I'm interested in seeing how the extremely vulnerable GOP senators handle an impeachment trial. They usually run from reporters today when Trump's name comes up. They won't have that option when it comes to voting at the trial.

Take Gardner (R-CO) for example. By all accounts, he's losing badly in the polls. He can continue this path, vote to acquit, and be out of a job in 12 months. If Trump is still President maybe he can get an admin role.  Or he vote to convict, face a tough crowd back at home, suffer thru Trump attacks, but maintain a small chance of winning.  Is it better to have a 5% chance or 0%?

[staboner 4,969]

3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is pretty astounding. I guess I knew deep down that the cult would twist themselves in knots trying to defend after he was impeached, but to see it in reality is just amazing.  They truly do live in an alternate universe. 
 

There is no way to fight that with logic. I’m afraid it will end another way. 

I've said it over and over again - you may be wishing for the military to step up in 2020 to bring order back to this circus. 

The society as a whole has no way to communicate clearly with itself, on anything of any substance, at all. And every month that passes the channels are just further rotted out and farther from being trusted by any side, for anything. I think this is the most dangerous and frightening thing that no one seems to fully grasp the value of, but when (maybe?) China is launching a cyber attack on the DoD and Fox is reporting it, and CNN isn't, and the government needs to act and move public opinion for something or anything? ha. good luck with that future. When there is disorder like this its just a matter of time until something or someone with a heavy authoritarian bend acts. 

Hey China doing something stupid is actually one potential event left that can actually unify the US. Here's to praying China is dumb enough to do something like this and save us from ourselves. And nuke free to boot. Have a great Friday when you get there my friends. 

 

[Guest Lobo]

12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

 

 

Miss Pelosi, if you're Deplorable.  

[Francisco 2.0 32,389]

 

[David Dennison 18,851]

Just now, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

The answer is yes, he's been impeached. Full stop.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah there was this thing called a floor vote.  In our Republic, it carries some weight.  We have little lights and everything.  

[hobbes2702 13,030]

4 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Lol wut

[jimmyjazz 45,893]

What a circus.

[Red Five 40,847]

That would be some pretty crazy logic.

"We're not even going to give you a fair trial. I'm working with the White House to ensure he gets off."

"Fine, then I'm just going to hold on to these here articles of impeachment until you can provide a fair trial."

"A HA!! He's no longer impeached!"

[Tuco 5,076]

13 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i mean, that's not at all true. try thinking critically and looking shit up before spouting it as fact.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-timeline/timeline-key-dates-in-the-us-political-controversy-over-ukraine-idUSKBN1W82HK

it's like you want to be publicly known as a complete fool.

biden was advancing public US policy. trump was asking for a personal favor. there's a fucking grand canyon's worth of difference between the two things.

Not only was Biden advancing US policy, US policy was actually noble.  Addressing corruption was the cornerstone of it.  A corrupt Ukraine is one that can be controlled by Russia.  Reducing corruption allows for more democratic reforms, more western investments, more basic westernizing of Ukraine.  This is not simply a policy disagreement.  This is a question of advancing American interests and American ideals.  So many times, those are at odds.  But now we are reduced to advancing Trumpian interests, which are devoid of ideals. I don't think this is just about investigating Biden.  I think that is just the carrot that Rudy used at the behest of foreign interests who were paying him.  There is a lot of money to be made in a corrupt Ukraine.  

Some additional timeline items, much of it pulled from here. 

April 2014 - British officials freeze Zlochevsky bank accounts.  (Zlochevsky is the Burisma founder at the heart of the corruption charges.  There were questions of embezzlement and self-dealing licenses, as he was also a government official from 2010-2012.) 

August 5, 2014 Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yarema opens investigation into Burisma. 

October 14, 2014 - Parliament passes law to establish and independent organization (NABU) for pursuing corruption.  This was something anti-corruption activists had been pushing for. The Prosecutor General's wields a lot of power, and is not trusted.  The formation of NABU was major rebuke. 

January 2015 - British officials had to release the freeze, because Ukrainian officials would not respond to requests for documentation to prove their case.  They had to release due to lack of evidence. 

February 2015 - George Kent travels to Kiev to scold Yarema's deputy for failing to pursue criminal case against Zlockevsky. 

February 10, 2015 - Shokin appointed 

April 2015, Shokin claims that pre-Maiden files were removed from his office, making it impossible to prosecute the murder of protesters during Maiden, as well as numerous regular corruption cases. 

September 24, 2015 Ambassador Pryatt gives speech critical of Prosecutor General's office for failing to pursue corruption cases.  "We want to work with Prosecutor General Shokin so the PGO is leading the fight against corruption."  He also said this: 

Quote

We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.

For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky [cq], the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result, the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.”

12/8/15 Biden, in a speech to Ukraine's Rada: 

Quote

It’s not enough to set up a new anti-corruption bureau and establish a special prosecutor fighting corruption. The Office of the General Prosecutor desperately needs reform. The judiciary should be overhauled. The energy sector needs to be competitive, ruled by market principles — not sweetheart deals. It’s not enough to push through laws to increase transparency with regard to official sources of income. Senior elected officials have to remove all conflicts between their business interest and their government responsibilities. Every other democracy in the world — that system pertains.

Oligarchs and non-oligarchs must play by the same rules. They have to pay their taxes, settle their disputes in court — not by bullying judges. That’s basic. That’s how nations succeed in the 21st century.

Corruption siphons away resources from the people. It blunts the economic growth, and it affronts the human dignity. We know that. You know that. The Ukrainian people know that. When Russia seeks to use corruption as a tool of coercion, reform isn’t just good governance, it’s self-preservation. It’s in the national security interest of the nation ….

 

February 2016 :Shokin's deputy prosecutor resigns in protest of corruption in the office. 

March 2016 - Shokin raids the ngo Anti-Corruption Action Center offices, which was a frequent critic of his. This results in protests. 

March 29 2016 - Ukraine's parliament removes Shokin.  

 

 

[CO Horn 156]

35 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm interested in seeing how the extremely vulnerable GOP senators handle an impeachment trial. They usually run from reporters today when Trump's name comes up. They won't have that option when it comes to voting at the trial.

Take Gardner (R-CO) for example. By all accounts, he's losing badly in the polls. He can continue this path, vote to acquit, and be out of a job in 12 months. If Trump is still President maybe he can get an admin role.  Or he vote to convict, face a tough crowd back at home, suffer thru Trump attacks, but maintain a small chance of winning.  Is it better to have a 5% chance or 0%?

If you want to make that argument, why did none of the retiring GOP representatives vote to impeach?  They have nothing to lose.  Gardner would likely not benefit by supporting impeachment.  Not sure if there would be a chance of him being primaried, but many GOP voters would not vote for him if he voted to impeach Trump.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

5 minutes ago, CO Horn said:

If you want to make that argument, why did none of the retiring GOP representatives vote to impeach?  They have nothing to lose.  Gardner would likely not benefit by supporting impeachment.  Not sure if there would be a chance of him being primaried, but many GOP voters would not vote for him if he voted to impeach Trump.

My point was that Gardner is going to lose standing by Trump. I think he has a small chance of winning if he doesn't support the President.  but I agree with you that Gardner basically has zero chance of winning next year.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

15 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Not only was Biden advancing US policy, US policy was actually noble.  Addressing corruption was the cornerstone of it.  A corrupt Ukraine is one that can be controlled by Russia.  Reducing corruption allows for more democratic reforms, more western investments, more basic westernizing of Ukraine.  This is not simply a policy disagreement.  This is a question of advancing American interests and American ideals.  So many times, those are at odds.  But now we are reduced to advancing Trumpian interests, which are devoid of ideals. I don't think this is just about investigating Biden.  I think that is just the carrot that Rudy used at the behest of foreign interests who were paying him.  There is a lot of money to be made in a corrupt Ukraine.  

Some additional timeline items, much of it pulled from here. 

April 2014 - British officials freeze Zlochevsky bank accounts.  (Zlochevsky is the Burisma founder at the heart of the corruption charges.  There were questions of embezzlement and self-dealing licenses, as he was also a government official from 2010-2012.) 

August 5, 2014 Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yarema opens investigation into Burisma. 

October 14, 2014 - Parliament passes law to establish and independent organization (NABU) for pursuing corruption.  This was something anti-corruption activists had been pushing for. The Prosecutor General's wields a lot of power, and is not trusted.  The formation of NABU was major rebuke. 

January 2015 - British officials had to release the freeze, because Ukrainian officials would not respond to requests for documentation to prove their case.  They had to release due to lack of evidence. 

February 2015 - George Kent travels to Kiev to scold Yarema's deputy for failing to pursue criminal case against Zlockevsky. 

February 10, 2015 - Shokin appointed 

April 2015, Shokin claims that pre-Maiden files were removed from his office, making it impossible to prosecute the murder of protesters during Maiden, as well as numerous regular corruption cases. 

September 24, 2015 Ambassador Pryatt gives speech critical of Prosecutor General's office for failing to pursue corruption cases.  "We want to work with Prosecutor General Shokin so the PGO is leading the fight against corruption."  He also said this: 

12/8/15 Biden, in a speech to Ukraine's Rada: 

February 2016 :Shokin's deputy prosecutor resigns in protest of corruption in the office. 

March 2016 - Shokin raids the ngo Anti-Corruption Action Center offices, which was a frequent critic of his. This results in protests. 

March 29 2016 - Ukraine's parliament removes Shokin.  

 

 

Something you left out of your timeline, unless I missed it:

Burisma has been around since about 2004(going off of memory). Something not mentioned is that Zlockevsky was partnered with Victor Yanukovych who was the Prime Minister of Ukraine when Burisma was founded. Yanukovych later became the President of Ukraine until 2014 when he was tossed out of office. He had won because, surprise! surprise, he was backed by Putin and the election was suspect. He was corrupt and is now wanted in Ukraine for high treason. He absconded with a bunch of money (potentially 70 Billion) and is now with his friend, Vladimir Putin in Russia. Some of the difficulty in Ukraine is sorting out who is a Ukrainian and pro western democracy (but may still be corrupt) and who is a Ukrainian who is a Russian sympathizer or asset.

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm interested in seeing how the extremely vulnerable GOP senators handle an impeachment trial. They usually run from reporters today when Trump's name comes up. They won't have that option when it comes to voting at the trial.

Take Gardner (R-CO) for example. By all accounts, he's losing badly in the polls. He can continue this path, vote to acquit, and be out of a job in 12 months. If Trump is still President maybe he can get an admin role.  Or he vote to convict, face a tough crowd back at home, suffer thru Trump attacks, but maintain a small chance of winning.  Is it better to have a 5% chance or 0%?

52 minutes ago, CO Horn said:

If you want to make that argument, why did none of the retiring GOP representatives vote to impeach?  They have nothing to lose.  Gardner would likely not benefit by supporting impeachment.  Not sure if there would be a chance of him being primaried, but many GOP voters would not vote for him if he voted to impeach Trump.

Are there enough moderates in Colorado?  Are Trumpkins willing to vote D or leave it blank and give it up to the Democrats?

As for the retiring Republicans, most of them probably don’t want to be harassed by Trumpkins.  If they were to hang up their shingle somewhere, they are going to catch hell from Trumpkins.  

[DixonHur 11,296]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

 

 

 

Thank god she didn't have a wardrobe malfunction.

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

6 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Thank god she didn't have a wardrobe malfunction.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,189]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Which state is in the lead with the worst 2-legislator team?  Call it a scramble.

I'm thinking Georgia with Loudermilk and Collins, although Texas is coming on strong with Gohmert and Radcliffe.

Kentucky with Poodle Boy and Turtle takes this in a landslide.  Well if treason counts for anything at least.

Edit:  Guess they wrap up #1 seed in the Senate bracket.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Fudge Nuggets

[4th&Five 41,519]

Pelosi knows how to play this moron. 

 

[henrygandorf 29,189]

12 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Pelosi knows how to play this moron. 

 

playing paranoid people is easy.  the not-knowing drives them nuts.

he may crash twitter over the holidays.

[MillerEP 30,448]

It'll get thrown out by the Senate.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Thank god she didn't have a wardrobe malfunction.

Wrong song and Nancy has great boobs.

[workswithseed 2,095]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

Wrong song and Nancy has great boobs.

How do you know this?

[Bama Chick 28,596]

I have eyes.

[Chrispy_ 105]

Nancy’s boobs? Good god what is happening in here. 
 

[American Swindle 102]

I think American Swindle may be horrified by how much he has in common with leftists.

I know I have a lot in common with leftists and so called conservatives, and it’s not horrifying at all.

Is it a stretch to say we would agree on ending wars, ending the war on drugs, ending the surveillance state, repealing the patriot act, repealing the NDAA, promoting civil rights, and legalizing certain drugs if not all drugs?

As for conservatives, I’d say we’d agree on second amendment rights to bear arms, shrinking the size of government, nullification, states rights, secession (God knows we need it at a time like this,) cutting spending and being pro-life (personally, but not forcing those through government means to pay for abortions or denying them the right to a safe privately funded abortion.)

So you’re wrong, I’m not horrified. Am I missing something that you would guess I would fear I have in common with the progressive left?

[American Swindle 102]

Snowden didn't follow the whistleblower law. He went outside the law.

When two citizens have a dispute and have to go to court, the state is the final arbiter as they have a monopoly on the court system, but what happens when a private citizen has issue with the state and takes them to court?

They are the final arbiter against themselves no?
What a a major conflict of fucking interest. You think the state is going to objectively hear a case where a citizen has exposed them for abusing their power?

Pfffffttttt, forget about it.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,437]

I know I have a lot in common with leftists and so called conservatives, and it’s not horrifying at all.

Is it a stretch to say we would agree on ending wars, ending the war on drugs, ending the surveillance state, repealing the patriot act, repealing the NDAA, promoting civil rights, and legalizing certain drugs if not all drugs?

As for conservatives, I’d say we’d agree on second amendment rights to bear arms, shrinking the size of government, nullification, states rights, secession (God knows we need it at a time like this,) cutting spending and being pro-life (personally, but not forcing those through government means to pay for abortions or denying them the right to a safe privately funded abortion.)

So you’re wrong, I’m not horrified. Am I missing something that you would guess I would fear I have in common with the progressive left?

I read this in the voice of Begbie from Trainspotting.

[Francisco 2.0 32,389]

LOL.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/19/us/politics/trump-reacts-to-impeachment.html

 

Quote

For Mr. Trump, the day after found him still a little shellshocked, according to people close to him. Despite the clear momentum behind impeachment among Democrats in recent weeks, some of Mr. Trump’s advisers tried to convince him — and themselves — that Speaker Nancy Pelosi did not have the votes and might not even bring the articles of impeachment to the floor, despite warnings from the White House director of legislative affairs, Eric Ueland, that the votes were there.

 

 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,792]

16 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

LOL.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/19/us/politics/trump-reacts-to-impeachment.html

 

 

 

Holy shit, it's a testament to Fox that this bumbling dumbfuck has followers and a decent shot at reelection 

[David Dennison 18,851]

38 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

When two citizens have a dispute and have to go to court, the state is the final arbiter as they have a monopoly on the court system, but what happens when a private citizen has issue with the state and takes them to court?

They are the final arbiter against themselves no?
What a a major conflict of fucking interest. You think the state is going to objectively hear a case where a citizen has exposed them for abusing their power?

Pfffffttttt, forget about it.

 

What do you suggest?

[Thetexashammer 1,062]

45 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

When two citizens have a dispute and have to go to court, the state is the final arbiter as they have a monopoly on the court system, but what happens when a private citizen has issue with the state and takes them to court?

They are the final arbiter against themselves no?
What a a major conflict of fucking interest. You think the state is going to objectively hear a case where a citizen has exposed them for abusing their power?

Pfffffttttt, forget about it.

 

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[TwiceHorn 31,440]

4 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Wrong song and Nancy has great boobs.

They may have been great at one time.  I do not want to see them now.

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

7 hours ago, staboner said:

. I think this is the most dangerous and frightening thing that no one seems to fully grasp the value of, but when (maybe?) China is launching a cyber attack on the DoD and Fox is reporting it, and CNN isn't, and the government needs to act and move public opinion for something or anything? ha

I agree, but why would fox be reporting it?  And why would cnn not?  Only one network has fully disregarded facts as of late. 

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

7 hours ago, Red Five said:

That would be some pretty crazy logic.

"We're not even going to give you a fair trial. I'm working with the White House to ensure he gets off."

"Fine, then I'm just going to hold on to these here articles of impeachment until you can provide a fair trial."

"A HA!! He's no longer impeached!"

This just might work. One of my 20-something coworkers told me today that she thought the Dotard has been stripped of all presidential powers due to impeachment. It took all of my maturity, which is limited, to not lose my shit. 

[deech 2,272]

I'm shocked his persuasive letter assisted by the genius Stephen Miller that was not reviewed by counsel failed to prevent his impeachment.

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This just might work. One of my 20-something coworkers told me today that she thought the Dotard has been stripped of all presidential powers due to impeachment. It took all of my maturity, which is limited, to not lose my shit. 

Most of America is dumb as shit. On the flip side, the belief that Presidents who are impeached but not removed can get a third term is making the rounds. 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I agree, but why would fox be reporting it?  And why would cnn not?  Only one network has fully disregarded facts as of late. 

Both sides!!

Actually, China is pretty much always attempting cyber attacks on the DoD. It would be more concerning if they stopped. 

[TexLonghorn 5,661]

SIAP

https://queenseagle.com/all/2019/12/19/queens-man-impeached

Quote

 

Queens man impeached

By Victoria Merlino

Former Jamaica Estates resident Donald Trump was impeached Wednesday by the U.S. House of Representatives. He is the third president to be impeached in United States history — and the first from Queens.

Trump is accused of pressuring the Ukrainian government to investigate political rival and Democratic candidate for president, Joe Biden, and of withholding military aid until the Ukrainians conducted the investigation. He is also accused of obstructing the Congressional investigation. 

Trump fired off a series of tweets on Thursday over the impeachment process, calling it “presidential harassment” and directing ire at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. 

“Pelosi feels her phony impeachment HOAX is so pathetic she is afraid to present it to the Senate, which can set a date and put this whole SCAM into default if they refuse to show up! The Do Nothings are so bad for our Country!” he wrote. 

The charges will be sent to the Republican-controlled Senate, initiating a trial that could have lasting ramifications in the 2020 presidential election. 

The entire Queens House delegation voted in favor of impeachment.

“Today, I voted to impeach President Donald Trump … I did so with a heavy heart for our country, but a clear conscience. I did so, because, above all, I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States,” U.S. Rep. Grace Meng wrote in a statement on Twitter. 

“No normal person would be able to get away with attempting to extort a foreign power to compromise our country,” U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted. “But all too often, the most corrupt and powerful people grow so accustomed to life with impunity that standard accountability feels to them like unjust persecution.”

Trump’s old Jamaica Estates home, where he lived as an infant until he was four years old, went back on the market after it was sold to a Chinese investor and rented on Airbnb for $725 a night, according to Curbed. 

Trump’s parents’ graves are located at All Faiths Cemetery in Middle Village. The cemetery was slapped with a lawsuit by New York Attorney General Letitia James earlier this year for allegedly misappropriating funds.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by TexLonghorn

[Burt 4,080]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Most of America is dumb as shit. On the flip side, the belief that Presidents who are impeached but not removed can get a third term is making the rounds. 

Like a mulligan? Well, yeah....everyone knows that.

[Gatorubet 30,189]

When two citizens have a dispute and have to go to court, the state is the final arbiter as they have a monopoly on the court system, but what happens when a private citizen has issue with the state and takes them to court?

They are the final arbiter against themselves no?
What a a major conflict of fucking interest. You think the state is going to objectively hear a case where a citizen has exposed them for abusing their power?

Pfffffttttt, forget about it.

Separation of powers is hard....,

[Bookman 4,638]

9 hours ago, American Swindle said:

, secession (God knows we need it at a time like this,)

At this point I think I'm for secession. I really don't want to share a country with 63,000,000 Americans who will vote for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent, failed-businessman to become President of the United States. I like Americans with honor, integrity, morals, and intelligence.

[Aqua Buddha 14,582]

7 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Most of America is dumb as shit. On the flip side, the belief that Presidents who are impeached but not removed can get a third term is making the rounds. 

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Jump on in to the primary, Bill!

[Enchubben 5,510]

55 minutes ago, Bookman said:

At this point I think I'm for secession. I really don't want to share a country with 63,000,000 Americans who will vote for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent, failed-businessman to become President of the United States. I like Americans with honor, integrity, morals, and intelligence.

Like the democrats said to the idiots who said they were leaving when Obama got elected, “don’t let the door hit you on the way out.” There is nothing at all keeping you here in the U.S.

[Bookman 4,638]

28 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Like the democrats said to the idiots who said they were leaving when Obama got elected, “don’t let the door hit you on the way out.” There is nothing at all keeping you here in the U.S.

Why would I leave? They're the ones who suck.

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, Bookman said:

At this point I think I'm for secession. I really don't want to share a country with 63,000,000 Americans who will vote for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent, failed-businessman to become President of the United States. I like Americans with honor, integrity, morals, and intelligence.

You’d still be sharing it with 4.6 million Texans that voted for him. 

[Party_Taco 3,723]

 

Terrifying...

The death of objective truth will be the longest lasting impact of this administration.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

2 hours ago, Bookman said:

At this point I think I'm for secession. I really don't want to share a country with 63,000,000 Americans who will vote for a corrupt, immoral, incompetent, failed-businessman to become President of the United States. I like Americans with honor, integrity, morals, and intelligence.

I think there should be a relegation system.  Every decade, the worst state is relegated to being a territory.  Maybe the best territory/possession/whatever can move up.

 

Ooooh.  Tough, Alabama.  Lost to Mississippi on PKs. Well, better luck in 2030.  

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida should be forced to secede.  They are a drain on this country and a scourge on humanity.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Louisiana [is] a drain on this country and a scourge on humanity.

 

 

If you uncultured swine cannot appreciate a good bisque, I'm not even sure what we are doing here.