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impeachment inquiry hearings thread

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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NWBuck

NWBuck 8589

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

A map of the US with the geographic size of counties given equal weight to their populations. The shading of red to blue should be obvious.

The point being that the typical graphic representation of the US showing small, isolated blue "islands" minimizes the weight those intensely populated urban areas carry when it comes to accurately displaying the sheer number of votes.

The "normal" looking one seems to best represent the Senate, while the rorschach looking one is more like the House of Representatives (in how they're selected and formed, with the latter dependent on population and the former based on state boundaries) 

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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30039

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Bookman said:

Yeah no shit. Those 4.6 million Texans love them some corrupt, immoral, incompetent failed-businessmen.

It all started with my state embracing a Hollywood Movie Star wearing a cowboy hat and riding a horse. At least we went for an empty image. Now we don't even care about the image, only the ignorant hate behind it.

e131.jpg

 

MediumAcceptableGazelle-size_restricted.

 

I'm sure the Texans who fought the formidable Comanches or scratched out livings in the Hill Country before the Colorado was dammed would be very impressed with us.

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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

Posted
Posted

A long but interesting report on released documents pertaining to Ukrainian aid being withheld by Trump.


https://publicintegrity.org/national-security/trump-administration-officials-worried-ukraine-aid-halt-violated-spending-law/


"Sam Berger, a lawyer who was a senior counselor and policy adviser at OMB from 2010 to 2015 before becoming a White House adviser to President Obama, says that in his view, Trump’s holdup of the funding “constituted an illegal impoundment” and that none of the administration’s claims about it “pass legal muster.” A former assistant attorney general and special counsel to the Defense Department, Jack Goldsmith, said in an Oct. 16 article in a blog called Lawfare that he, too, believes that despite some uncertainty, the 55-day long aid holdup appeared to be in “contravention” of the Impoundment Act, which limits any deferral to 45 days and otherwise requires congressional approval. No such approval was ever granted."

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horn4life

horn4life 3784

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think the strategy and word play the Dems need to trot out is "Should we have a fair trial, or a fake trial?"  

I would also repeatedly say that a fake trial is what you get in Russia, and toss in the Moscow Mitch pejorative.  I would say Let's say hypothetically that the Dems are completely biased and the charged are Trumped up. Does that mean a fixed fake trial is the correct path for our Nation?  

I think Donald Trump deserves a more than fair trial, but not a fake trial. The problem is a fair trail means conviction.  I still have a tiny glimmer of hope that a few Senators will show some microscopic degree of their possession of morals and principles.  Which could force a NON-dishonest structure for the "trial."  So there's still hope, just a glimmer...

Edited by horn4life
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89878

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Bookman said:

Yeah no shit. Those 4.6 million Texans love them some corrupt, immoral, incompetent failed-businessmen.

"WE WANT MORE RELIGION IN GOVERNMENT!"

"Okay, well, the Catholics are the largest religious group in Texas, pushing 5 million members and outnumbering the Baptists by well over a million, and outnumbering the Methodists by millions, so I guess we need to get the Vatican on the line"

"WAIT, WUT?  NOW JUST HOLD ON A GOLDURNED MINUTE, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE MEANT!"

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Tuco

Tuco 5084

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/19/2019 at 2:08 PM, Chuckie Finster said:

True or False: Corruption has been in issue in Ukraine for more than 1 year.

True or False: Hunter Biden joined the Burisma board in 2014.

True or False: Trump did not hold up aid to Ukraine in 2017.

True or False: Trump did not hold up aid to Ukraine in 2018.

True or False: Joe Biden announced his candidacy to run for President in April of 2019.

True or False: Ukraine elects a new President, one who explicitly campaigned on anti-corruption measures, in April of 2019.

True or False: Trump holds up Ukraine for the first time in his Presidency, in 2019.

 

19 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

It's also significant that Trump threatened to hold up aid only after the the corrupt administration he was dealing with had been replaced by a hugely popular anti-corruption administration.  He and Rudy preferred the old guys.

GOPs keep pointing to Ukraine as corrupt spurring Trump's concern. No. Trump became concerned when the corruption he was hoping to exploit was replaced. Trump wanted the new guys to play ball like the old guys.

This is something often missed.  Trumpicans defend him by saying, well, they didn't open investigation, so there was no bribery.  

What is forgotten is the Trump did get the Prosecutor General to publicly announce the investigations and shortly after Trump gave the PG something they wanted - the removal of Marie Yovanovitch.    

The embassy had been confrontational with the PG's office, due to its ineffectiveness and corruption.  That goes back a long way, including to the Obama administration pushing Ukraine to open up the NABU (an anti-corruption division, independent of the PG office.) Marie Yovanovitch, and the rest of State, continued the pressure to reform the PG office and implement other reforms.

In August 2018, Lev and Igor hire Rudy, paying him $500k. One of the things that becomes apparent, is they want Yovanovitch removed.  After giving Sessions 300k earlier in the year, Sessions lobbied Trump to have Yovanovitch removed.  They were working Rudy to have her removed, and Rudy was working them to get the investigations set up. 

In late 2018, they set up meetings with Rudy and Shokin (old PG that Biden had pushed out) and Lutshenko (current PG).  Rudy is pushing for investigations. It's in this time frame that Lev and Parnas get face time with Trump, and, according to Parnas's attorneys, Trump asks Parnas to push for investigations.  Nunes gets involved in pushing for investigations. 

In January of 2019, Rudy meets with Lutshenko in New York, and then meets with him again in Warsaw in February. 

In late February, Parnas tells President Poroshenko that investigations would result in a White House visit.  This would have been a huge political score for Poroshenko, as he is underwater in the polls. 

In March, Rudy, Parnas, John Solomon (Hill "reporter" who writes Republican hit pieces), Toensing & diGenova, Havery (Nunes' aid) would meet at the Trump Hotel to work on the investigation. 

March 5, 2019 - Yovanovitch delivers a speech which specifically calls out a PG deputy that should be replaced

March 19, 2019 - Lutshenko publicly announces he is reopening the investigation into Burisma and Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election. This includes investigating the NABU and Manafort's black ledger.  

March 20 - Solomon writes article, in which Lutshenko claims Yovanovitch gave him a do-not-prosecute list. 

March 26 - For another article that Solomon is writing, he runs the draft passed Toensing, diGenova, and Parnas. 

April 1 - Solomon publishes piece that indicates Shokin had been planning on investigating Burisma, but the case was transferred to NABU. 

April 21 - Zelenksy is elected

April 24 - Yovanovitch is removed from office. 

April 25 - Trump states that Barr is dealing with big news regarding the leaking of Manafort's ledger. 

May 9 - NYT reports Rudy is planning trip to Ukraine

May 11 - Rudy calls off trip

May 13 - Trump tells Pence to cancel his planned visit to Z's inauguration. Instead Perry leads visit. 

May 16 - Lutsenko states there was no evidence of wrong doing by the Bidens

Edited by Tuco
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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, horn4life said:

I think the strategy and word play the Dems need to trot out is "Should we have a fair trial, or a fake trial?"  

I would also repeatedly say that a fake trial is what you get in Russia, and toss in the Moscow Mitch pejorative.  I would say Let's say hypothetically that the Dems are completely biased and the charged are Trumped up. Does that mean a fixed fake trial is the correct path for our Nation?  

I think Donald Trump deserves a more than fair trial, but not a fake trial. The problem is a fair trail means conviction.  I still have a tiny glimmer of hope that a few Senators will show some microscopic degree of their possession of morals and principles.  Which could force a NON-dishonest structure for the "trial."  So there's still hope, just a glimmer...

Keep in mind a fake trial is most about sheltering a vulnerable R Senate majority in 2020.  Mitch is angling for every way possible to avoid individual Senators from having to cast votes that help define a sham.  If Mitch could make all the rules himself without any majority votes, he would, obviously.  Look for the House to force negotiations on rules and procedures that target those 6 vulnerable R’s into supporting a fraud on the American populace or call for witnesses Trump is obstructing from testifying.

 

 

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Beantown Express 2.0

Beantown Express 2.0 6568

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Any of our resident trump supporters want to answer this?

Because he is too busy making America great again, right?  The sad part about this is Trump technically got exactly what he wanted (not the impeachment part) but the part of half the country talking about Joe Biden being corrupt (along with his son Hunter Biden).  He is really good at getting a false narrative out there that the dumb asses believe (for example-a Caravan invading our country, the Democrats are all socialists, greatest economy ever, etc...).  Now if Biden wins the nomination he will be “swift boated”with how corrupt he is.  Kind of amazing that there are people in this country that will vote for Trump and against Biden because they feel Biden is the corrupt one.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted

Moscow Mitch desperately wants a sham trial. A clear majority of the American people want a fair trial, which obviously includes hearing from the principal witnesses. Duh. 

Moscow Mitch and President shitstain don’t want the American people to hear from those witnesses because, well, trump is obviously guilty. 

Nancy and the dems should absolutely refuse to participate in a sham trial as envisioned by Moscow Mitch.

Fuck them. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted

Senate R's are at risk of getting set up here.  Once they commit to defrauding us in a trial of abuses with nat sec importance, when more comes out from other House committees and SCOTUS rulings - and you know this isn't nearly all of it, it only gets harder for vulnerable Senate R's to credibly maintain the charade as the wave of shit rises.  

 

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14365

Posted
Posted
Senate R's are at risk of getting set up here.  Once they commit to defrauding us in a trial of abuses with nat sec importance, when more comes out from other House committees and SCOTUS rulings - and you know this isn't nearly all of it, it only gets harder for vulnerable Senate R's to credibly maintain the charade as the wave of shit rises.  
 

ah well nevertheless.

I’ll be on the ledge with brisket’s scotch.
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troph

troph 24916

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Kinda impressed that my generation,  gen X, is basically the same as the millennials. At least we’re not stupid.

Well, we’ve always struggled with authority, most because we think it’s self interested, undeserving, mediocre at best, corrupt at worse. I’m not surprised at all with those results.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2019 at 12:26 AM, Bama Chick said:

His makeup “artist” hates him.

f633b7d08bb44c51c137831184fb1397.jpg

That is the exact expression I make when My bowels tell my face that it feels like a “15 flusher”

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted (edited)

I like that the photo that mentions the three of them  is being loomed over by one of the only practical Republicans on this matter-Will Hurd.  

McCarthy obviously recommended these three as a gesture to the President.  I guess as a personal injury attorney, Ratcliffe has 'courtroom' experience. Bear in mind, Ratcliffe has been withdrawn from two serious intelligence positions during two Presidents because he has a tendency to politicize sensitive information.  Something frowned upon in the U.S. Senate.  Jordan has tremendous prosecutorial experience but is blinded by his loyalty to Trump.  Collins obviously got added because he got Trump's balls further down his throat than any other House member.  But the three of them are somehow lesser than the sum of their parts.  Trump thinks his three biggest allies are handling the case for him, when in fact...it's far from the three most qualified Republicans in the House.  They are wildly out of their element (especially Collins and Ratcliffe).  Sure, they'll be music to the ears of the GOP Senators...but their fumbling of presenting their side while seeming angry and on the attack, will not play well with undecided/independent voters.  

This was a smart play by McCarthy to appease the President and calm him down from his shitstorm behavior as of late.  But in the long game, it's  mistake.  None of these three plays well on TV either, except to their most adamant far-right Trumpers.  And Ratcliffe is a joke in Texas---McCaul, Hurd, Cornyn, and Cruz all think he's a dipshit.  They're gonna yell and call people names on the floor of the U.S. Senate, and that's not gonna go over well, even among some of Trumps more casual supporters.   

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14365

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, kevwun said:

It's been a while since the last Three Stooges remake.

 

1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

The Three Stooges are a national treasure.

Those three are national disgraces.

 

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Matt Gaetz has a sad.

Matt Gaetz is the Shemp Howard of this crew.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13530

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

If the state was Alabama or Mississippi, probably. 

If one of those states actually declared independence from the US, I think there would be a huge collective laughter from the other 49 states. the one pain point that I would see with Alabama leaving would be the Marshall Space Flight Center, and either state could create some transportation problems.  Otherwise, would anyone care?

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31646

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2019 at 9:26 AM, RomaVicta said:

It all started with my state embracing a Hollywood Movie Star wearing a cowboy hat and riding a horse. At least we went for an empty image. Now we don't even care about the image, only the ignorant hate behind it.

e131.jpg

 

MediumAcceptableGazelle-size_restricted.

 

I'm sure the Texans who fought the formidable Comanches or scratched out livings in the Hill Country before the Colorado was dammed would be very impressed with us.

You can quibble about Reagan's policies, but he's a veritable Rhodes Scholar and Nobel Laureate compared to Trump.  He had some political experience, had been out of entertainment for a long time, and was never the self-dealing dickwad that is Trump.

The election of Trump as POTUS is a several orders of magnitude larger indictment of the American public.

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Tuco

Tuco 5084

Posted
Posted

This is a really good article that ties together Naftogaz, Firtash, Lev/Igor, and Marie Yovanovitch.  

Cast of characters, refresher for some:

Lev/Igor - Ukrainian/Americans who worked for Firtash and who hired Rudy.

Firtash - Ukrainian who got rich by Putin giving him a sweetheart deal on selling Russian gas to Ukraine. 

Kobolyev - CEO of Naftogaz

Favorov - #2 at Naftogaz; Lev/Igor introduced him to Seargent in Houston in the middle of March, to discuss LNG deals. 

Quote

But they would need a more compliant CEO at the top of Naftogaz to get the deal done, he says Parnas and Fruman told him. They alleged Favorov’s boss was a puppet of George Soros, wielding a common trope against the billionaire hedge-funder and Democratic Party mega-donor who has backed pro-democracy and anti-corruption initiatives in Eastern Europe. Soros, who is Jewish, emigrated to the U.S. from Hungary after surviving the Holocaust.

“You’re a Republican, right?” Parnas asked. Favorov says he nodded and told Parnas he considers himself a moderate Republican “of which there are about 15 to 20 left in the world.”

“Then you’re our man,” Parnas replied.

Favorov recalls the two men also casually informed him that Trump would soon be removing Yovanovitch, who was a key backer of the anti-corruption efforts at Naftogaz.

...

In January, Poroshenko’s government took steps to remove the authority of Naftogaz’s supervisory board to appoint key executives, including the CEO. In the same period, Prime Minister Volodymyr Groysman repeatedly pressured Kobolyev to forgive hundreds of millions of dollars of debt owed to the company by oligarch Dmitry Firtash, according to two people familiar with Groysman’s demands.

Firtash, a Ukrainian who made a fortune in the fertilizer and titanium industries, is closely aligned with Russian President Vladimir Putin and served as a middleman for the Russian natural gas giant Gazprom. He now lives in Vienna, Austria, where he has for years been fighting extradition to the United States on federal bribery and racketeering charges.

Yovanovitch, the U.S. ambassador, immediately moved to defend the independence of the Naftogaz leadership. In a letter to Groysman, she warned that limiting the authority of the supervisory board would sap Western confidence in Ukraine and put aid at risk.

“Such a conflict would serve Russia’s interests at a time when the international community has resolutely supported Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression,” she wrote.

Soon after, Giuliani began throwing his weight around in Kyiv. He was “almost unmissable” in mid-March during a “campaign of slander” against Yovanovitch, according to testimony by George Kent, the senior U.S. State Department official in charge of Ukraine, in a deposition for the House Intelligence Committee.

Favorov says he began to see his Houston dinner partners in a new light.

“We had this dynamic in Ukraine where Andriy (Kobolyev) was barely hanging on and Maria Yovanovitch was protecting him and I am receiving offers from private citizens to become the CEO of the company,” he says.

“The guy says he’s going to remove Yovanovitch in March and then she’s removed in May? It certainly gets your attention,” he says.

 

 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30039

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

You can quibble about Reagan's policies, but he's a veritable Rhodes Scholar and Nobel Laureate compared to Trump.  He had some political experience, had been out of entertainment for a long time, and was never the self-dealing dickwad that is Trump.

The election of Trump as POTUS is a several orders of magnitude larger indictment of the American public.

I'll agree that Reagan was more of a dupe than a villain. I think you overstate his intellectual ascendancy over Trump. Reagan clears that low bar, but his knowledge of the world was limited and often informed by homey cliches and right wing stereotyping. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29447

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'll agree that Reagan was more of a dupe than a villain. I think you overstate his intellectual ascendancy over Trump. Reagan clears that low bar, but his knowledge of the world was limited and often informed by homey cliches and right wing stereotyping. 

And his brain was just as dilapidated as Trump's is, it was just easier for the White House to hide that in the 80s.

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