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Posted

Did Sondland ever say that Trump told him that money for weapons was in exchange for investigations or was that just an inference Sondland made on his own?  That appears to me to be a rather important distinction.

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Posted
29 minutes ago, YChang said:

Hmmm... found the GOP line to use now, "President Trump never told me directly that the aid was conditioned on” investigations."

"Did the president ever utter the words 'I, Donald J Trump, being of sound mind and body, hereby bribeth thee, Volodymyr Zelensky, president of Ukraine'"?

 

"No"

 

"No further questions"

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Posted
Just now, Fozzz said:

Did Sondland ever say that Trump told him that money for weapons was in exchange for investigations or was that just an inference Sondland made on his own?  That appears to me to be a rather important distinction.

Your IQ being 20 points distinct from average -- on the south side -- seems important, too.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

Did Sondland ever say that Trump told him that money for weapons was in exchange for investigations or was that just an inference Sondland made on his own?  That appears to me to be a rather important distinction.

Everyone knows a crime isn't a crime unless you specifically outline why it's a crime as you're committing it, duh. 

Posted
Just now, Captainant said:

Everyone knows a crime isn't a crime unless you specifically outline why it's a crime as you're committing it, duh. 

When whether or not something is a crime is conditioned on specific intent, then yes, evidence of that intent is important.  

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Posted
Just now, tantric superman said:

What evidence of intent do you feel is lacking?

Ugh, the burden runs the other way bro.  I don't find Sondland's "guess" (as Sondland himself put it) to be all that powerful of evidence of Trump's intent.  

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Posted
6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Your IQ being 20 points distinct from average -- on the south side -- seems important, too.

You're being a bit generous. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

When whether or not something is a crime is conditioned on specific intent, then yes, evidence of that intent is important.  

The evidence is subject to reasonableness. Do you think that Trump, or any leader in politics or business, speaks in 100% absolutes? We all interpret what people say, and people are still held responsible.

Do you think that every person ever convicted of telling a subordinate to commit a crime, had to explicitly make the request in order to be convicted?

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

When whether or not something is a crime is conditioned on specific intent, then yes, evidence of that intent is important.  

Yes, Trump and Giuliani inadvertantly withheld Congressionally-approved aid from an ally in exchange for a political favor.

Of course there was intent.  And the proof is all over your tv right now.  If you still don't see it, it's because you don't want to.

Edited by TexArcher
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Ugh, the burden runs the other way bro.  I don't find Sondland's "guess" (as Sondland himself put it) to be all that powerful of evidence of Trump's intent.  

I'm not asking you what the burden of proof is, I'm asking you what kind of evidence you would need.

 I'm just vaguely curious. 

Edited by tantric superman
Posted
Yes, Trump and Giuliani inadvertantly withheld Congressionally-approved aid from an ally in exchange for a political favor.

It was all just a funny coincidence.
Posted
Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The evidence is subject to reasonableness. Do you think that Trump, or any leader in politics or business, speaks in 100% absolutes? We all interpret what people say, and people are still held responsible.

Do you think that every person ever convicted of telling a subordinate to commit a crime, had to explicitly make the request in order to be convicted?

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.  As to your question, I do not believe that to be true.  However, we are discussing the probity of Sondland's testimony and his testimony appears to be lacking with respect to the key ingredient of bribery.

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Posted
Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The evidence is subject to reasonableness. Do you think that Trump, or any leader in politics or business, speaks in 100% absolutes? We all interpret what people say, and people are still held responsible.

Do you think that every person ever convicted of telling a subordinate to commit a crime, had to explicitly make the request in order to be convicted?

Everyday people get convicted of crimes where the only evidence of specific intent is circumstantial. The informed opinion of the Sondland, who was involved in the day-to-day of this particular scheme, of what he believed Trump's intent to be is amazingly important and directly relevant. Fozzz remains an absolute moron. 

Posted

I'm gonna go WAY out on a limb and suggest that when the President directs someone to work with Rudy Giuliani and Giuliani conveys the quid pro quo nature of the task at hand, then that ties directly back to the President, Rocko's keen legal analysis notwithstanding.

Posted
On 11/15/2019 at 5:32 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What this is really about is making it difficult for GOP Senators to acquit Trump.  I know everyone thinks it’s a foregone conclusion (probably is) but I guarantee you no senator really WANTS to acquit Trump in the face of overwhelming evidence.  They would actually prefer not to vote at all.

 

Then those spinless fucking weasels need to convince DOTARD to resign.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Ugh, the burden runs the other way bro.  I don't find Sondland's "guess" (as Sondland himself put it) to be all that powerful of evidence of Trump's intent.  

I think it's certainly reasonable cause to investigate a crime (ie, an impeachment hearing) and to gather evidence (turn over documents, get White House officials to testify.)  

It's an absurd position to assert that Sondland's limited access does not provide enough proof while arguing that others with more access can be barred from coming forward. Sondland, and the other witnesses, is who we have.  You want more certainty, then lets get more witnesses. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Horn Dog said:

In fairness, Starr is saying that this is Schiff’s position.  He is not saying it is his

good point. Starr will still most likely walk the line that he doesn't think that a crime occurred, and if even if that is proven to be true, it doesn't rise to the level of removing a president. That level being on a president lying about sex.

Posted
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm gonna go WAY out on a limb and suggest that when the President directs someone to work with Rudy Giuliani and Giuliani conveys the quid pro quo nature of the task at hand, then that ties directly back to the President, Rocko's keen legal analysis notwithstanding.

We also have Trump admitting to it. But other than that I guess there's just no way of knowing his intent. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

"Mr. Giuliani's requests were a quid pro quo."

"Mr. Giuliani was expressing the desires of the President."

"Everyone was in the loop."

 

BURN IT DOWN!!

 

giphy.gif

Posted
Just now, Red Five said:

We also have Trump admitting to it. But other than that I guess there's just no way of knowing his intent. 

I couldn't find that evidence, so I went with Rudy.  Link?  I need to keep a file.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.  As to your question, I do not believe that to be true.  However, we are discussing the probity of Sondland's testimony and his testimony appears to be lacking with respect to the key ingredient of bribery.

Siths are generally pretty good at distinguishing difference between credibility, types of evidence and elements of a crime, though.

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Back to the whole the aid was released after we got caught, so no big deal. 

Someone should ask these idiots what happens if you attempt to rob a bank, but get caught in the act.

Edited by kevwun
Posted

Fozzz is a great example of why no matter what comes out of the hearings there will still be millions of people who hear what they want to hear and will never move away from what they believe. Back to the shooting someone in the middle of Times Square. 

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