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impeachment inquiry hearings thread

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31450

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

What you lawyers don’t seem to understand is that quid pro quo is illegal.  In all circumstances. In fact, “quid pro quo” is Latin for “the only bad thing” and it is, as the name implies, the only thing that is illegal under US law.  See, e.g., stare decisis, sua sponte, en banc, et al.  It’s a little known fact of our legal system that you can do whatever the fuck you want so long as you don’t have quid pro quo.  It is also a defense against quid pro quo to utter the words “No quid pro quo!”, unless you have previously accused someone else of quid pro quo in which case.... no backsies. 

Ergo ipso facto presto changeo, Biden is guilty and Trump is innocent.  

Rs ipsa loquitor motherusufructors. 

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105095

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, this is important. 

Agents of the US government can do all kinds of bribey, extorty, quid-pro-quo-y things in furtherance of the policy of the US.

Quasi agents of the government acting actually on behalf of the President cannot do those same things in furtherance of the policy of the President, i.e. for his personal benefit.  It gets even worse when that personal benefit is to affect an election.

Bingo.

Joe Biden, acting as an agent of the US government, pursuing the stated policy of the US government (to push out a do-nothing crooked prosecutor), and using the leverage of the US government (quid pro quo stuff) in doing so....not illegal.  Because it was not for private benefit.  Indeed, the whole argument that this was for private benefit is actually flipped completely on its head because the prosecutor was being pushed out because he was NOT investigating alleged corruption.

Private benefit.  Specifically, to affect an election.  That's what makes this a crime.  The fact that the president misused the power and authority of the United States (not his power, but the power that belongs to the United States) makes it ANOTHER crime.

He did not want anything that relates to the policy of the United States.  He just wanted a public statement from a foreign government.  That would harm his political rival.  And he withheld aid in order to pressure the foreign government into making that public statement.

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The Royal We

The Royal We 3072

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Bingo.

Joe Biden, acting as an agent of the US government, pursuing the stated policy of the US government (to push out a do-nothing crooked prosecutor), and using the leverage of the US government (quid pro quo stuff) in doing so....not illegal.  Because it was not for private benefit.  Indeed, the whole argument that this was for private benefit is actually flipped completely on its head because the prosecutor was being pushed out because he was NOT investigating alleged corruption.

Private benefit.  Specifically, to affect an election.  That's what makes this a crime.  The fact that the president misused the power and authority of the United States (not his power, but the power that belongs to the United States) makes it ANOTHER crime.

He did not want anything that relates to the policy of the United States.  He just wanted a public statement from a foreign government.  That would harm his political rival.  And he withheld aid in order to pressure the foreign government into making that public statement.

This.  It's really not all that complicated unless you suffer from brain rot.

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8066

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bevo VIII said:

Can I get a non partisan hack opinion of these proceedings or at least something to read to catch me up.

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.  

He should be impeached for:

  • Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange for announcing investigations into a political rival
  • Bribery for promising an Oval Office meeting in exchange for announcing investigations into a political rival
  • Violation of the 1974 Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act by illegally holding up foreign aid passed by congress and signed into law
  • Obstruction of Justice
  • Witness Intimidation/Tampering
Edited by TexasEd
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
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21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Bingo.

Joe Biden, acting as an agent of the US government, pursuing the stated policy of the US government (to push out a do-nothing crooked prosecutor), and using the leverage of the US government (quid pro quo stuff) in doing so....not illegal.  Because it was not for private benefit.  Indeed, the whole argument that this was for private benefit is actually flipped completely on its head because the prosecutor was being pushed out because he was NOT investigating alleged corruption.

Private benefit.  Specifically, to affect an election.  That's what makes this a crime.  The fact that the president misused the power and authority of the United States (not his power, but the power that belongs to the United States) makes it ANOTHER crime.

He did not want anything that relates to the policy of the United States.  He just wanted a public statement from a foreign government.  That would harm his political rival.  And he withheld aid in order to pressure the foreign government into making that public statement.

Basically, Trump was trying to JavelinBoat Joe Biden. He failed in his attempt but it's still impeachable. That's my short version.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11296

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I voted for Trump.  

He should be impeached for:

  • Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange for announcing investigations into a political rival
  • Bribery for promising an Oval Office meeting in exchange for announcing investigations into a political rival
  • Violation of the 1974 Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act by illegally holding up foreign aid passed by congress and signed into law
  • Obstruction of Justice
  • Witness Intimidation/Tampering

Sure, you may have voted for him, but you obviously didn't want him to win because you are clearly a never-trumper - gop

Edited by DixonHur
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31450

Posted
Posted (edited)

For the record, I'm not sure this IS a crime because of the extraterritorial nature of it, for one thing.  Other than the election law violation.

But it is extremely analogous to a crime and corrupt and an abuse of power and thus properly the subject of impeachment.

Plus, the overall pattern of self-dealing at the expense of the country is disgusting and this is but a small part.  Most of those aren't classic crimes either.  The constitution is not self-executing and there apparently is not a statute embodying emoluments against the President, so it's not a crime, either.  But, again, a quasi-crime of corruption and abuse of power.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
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5 minutes ago, LonghornJudas said:

So, we really don't need any more hearings right? We can move to a vote? House has everything they need?

I’m guessing they don’t move to a vote until the hearing about immunity, if they can compel Pompeo, Bolton, etc to testify, and more importantly, start pulling the records they haven’t had access to, this goes to 11.  The only wiggle room Sondland had was his faulty memory due to not having access to official records of stuff he was talking about. He laid that down all day, get those records, my memory gets better. 

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11819

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, LonghornJudas said:

So, we really don't need any more hearings right? We can move to a vote? House has everything they need?

Just asking questions?  We can have as many hearings as we fucking want.  There’s a lot of dirt still to be shoveled on this flaming pile of shit administration.  

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deech

deech 2274

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, LonghornJudas said:

So, we really don't need any more hearings right? We can move to a vote? House has everything they need?

Sure after:

1.  State Department releases its hold on relevant documents including Taylor's instantaneous notes of his conversations, Taylor's cable to Pompeo bitching about the hold up of aid, emails, etc.

2.. White House releases its hold on relevant documents.

3.  Then after:

Pompeo, Bolton, Rudy, Perry, Mulvaney, and Pence all testify (and their minions - granted the State guy went today for instance)

Minimum.

But other than that .....

Edited by deech
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Swift Boat?  Javelin Boot?

Once Swift Boat hit the airwaves it was all over the place. If Trump had been successful this would have been similar in terms of generating negative press especially when combined with the other active measures and propaganda. 

(I understand what Javelins are and their importance to military), it was my shorthand version, thus Javelin Boat. 

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