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impeachment inquiry hearings thread

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

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6 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

You must have missed Trumps little tweet this morning reminding that “wonderful “ Kavanaugh who bought and paid for his seat. Retired Justice Kennedy is going to take that secret to his grave. 

Kavanaugh is just one.  And that bit about paying for his seat is utter conspiracy theory nonsense.  You're better than that.

But fuck no I don't read his tweets except as they get reposted here.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
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6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Kavanaugh is just one.  And that bit about paying for his seat is utter conspiracy theory nonsense.  You're better than that.

But fuck no I don't read his tweets except as they get reposted here.

You are correct, he is just one. He's going to be there for awhile. I guess I do have a habit of thinking everything is a conspiracy. There's so much corruption!

The idea of paying for his seat I got from the Guardian and the Atlantic but it has been awhile since I read them, so I would need to go back and see if they've added info. His debt disappeared, and with the cash flow to right wing candidates coming from all sorts of odd places, forgive me if I don't trust people further than I can throw them.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

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29 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

You are correct, he is just one. He's going to be there for awhile. I guess I do have a habit of thinking everything is a conspiracy. There's so much corruption!

The idea of paying for his seat I got from the Guardian and the Atlantic but it has been awhile since I read them, so I would need to go back and see if they've added info. His debt disappeared, and with the cash flow to right wing candidates coming from all sorts of odd places, forgive me if I don't trust people further than I can throw them.

If you go strictly on partisanship, I don't, there are four anti-Trump justices.  Three of the five remaining have no connection to Trump, although one is certifiable.  I think Gorsuch is a wild card, as is Roberts.  And you don't really need a wild card as nothing in conservatism calls for upsetting the separation of powers by immunizing a president from oversight.  Kavanaugh is on record, long before Trump, in favor of executive power and privilege, but his writings call for a law immunizing the President, which implies that without a law, he has no immunity.

I don't think these will be 5-4 opinions.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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He has a point...has the media spent less time covering Republicans in that regard? Van Drew is an outlier w/respect to his already suspect views, but *Chabot (R), for example, was on the Judiciary committee front and center spouting nonsense.

*If you click on the tweet and follow his thread he lists them all.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89659

Posted
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11 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You misunderstood me. I believe those numbers make sense. I’m flabbergasted Fox News would report them. 

His fan base isn’t going to defect to OAN.  Hell, they can’t even find it on the television.   Fox News can’t change the poll.  They are playing a much longer game than Dotard.   Plus, Dotard and his followers supposedly don’t watch Wallace.   

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

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oh, i like that. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/freshman-democrats-push-for-amash-as-impeachment-manager/2019/12/15/759e5280-1f54-11ea-86f3-3b5019d451db_story.html

Freshman Democrats push for Amash as impeachment manager

Rep. Justin Amash (I-Mich.) (Cory Morse/AP)

By 

Rachael Bade 

Dec. 15, 2019 at 12:11 p.m. CST

A private campaign is underway to draft Rep. Justin Amash (I-Mich.) as an impeachment manager in the Senate trial of President Trump, a bid to diversify House Democrats’ appeal to voters with a rare conservative voice.

A group of 30 freshman Democrats, led by Rep. Dean Phillips (D-Minn.), has asked House leaders to consider the libertarian, who left the Republican Party earlier this year, for the small group tasked with arguing its case for removing Trump in the upper chamber, according to several Democratic officials.

The thinking, according to these people, is that Amash would reach conservative voters in a way Democrats can’t, potentially bolstering their case to the public. He also would provide Democrats cover from GOP accusations that they’re pursuing a partisan impeachment; Amash is one of the most conservative members of the House and a vocal Trump critic.

“To the extent that this can be bipartisan, it should, and I think including Representative Amash amongst the impeachment managers is a smart move both for the country, for the substance and for the optics,” Phillips said, adding that Amash brings an array of qualifications: He’s an attorney, a constitutionalist and “the first and only member of the Republican conference, when he was a Republican, to show courage,” Phillips added.

Rep. Justin Amash (I-Mich.) left the Republican Party after long criticizing President Trump. And on July 7, he would not rule out a 2020 presidential bid. (JM Rieger/The Washington Post)

Justin Amash: Our politics is in a partisan death spiral. That’s why I’m leaving the GOP.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) would ultimately make the call and is expected to announce managers early this week, multiple Democrats said. Amash did not respond to a request for comment about whether he would accept such a position. But Phillips, who is in touch with Amash about the idea, said the lawmaker has agreed to consider it if asked.

The move would be unorthodox but not entirely unprecedented. Pelosi chose a five-member bipartisan group from the House Judiciary Committee to oversee the impeachment of a corrupt federal judge about a decade ago. Still, most Democrats predict that impeachment managers will hail from their own party and be steeped in the evidence gathered by the House Intelligence and Judiciary panels. Amash is not on either committee.

AD

'Not just the president who's on trial': Lawmakers look ahead to impeachment trial in Senate

With the House days away from a vote on impeachment articles against President Trump, Democrats and Republicans made their cases in TV interviews on Dec. 15. (The Washington Post)

Additionally, tapping Amash would be something of a gamble for Pelosi. While most Democrats would fall in line with her strategy in the Senate, Amash would be something of a wild card, given his lack of loyalty to the Democratic Party.

However, Democrats supportive of the idea — a group that includes conservative Blue Dogs as well as liberal members — applaud Amash for his courage in standing up to Trump and his own party. While Amash was not part of the House investigative process, he’s a former lawyer known for his strict interpretations of the Constitution and is well-versed in the writings of the Founding Fathers.

Democrats also argue that Amash’s vastly different views on policy also make him a prime choice.

“There couldn’t be anyone perhaps in the entire U.S. House . . . whose general political views are as polar opposite from many of us in the Democratic Caucus, and that’s what makes it such a powerful statement: that on the issue of our responsibility to our Constitution, we are perfectly aligned,” said Phillips, who said he had an “epiphany” on the idea Friday night and has been shopping it around ever sense.

AD

The push for Amash comes as Democrats have struggled to pick off even a single congressional Republican to support the impeachment of Trump. Past impeachments have been bipartisan, and even a handful of Democrats backed the impeachment of former president Bill Clinton.

Democrats have accused Republicans of selling out their country in the name of party loyalty; Republicans have said Democrats rushed the impeachment instead of building a bulletproof case.

Discussions about Amash are particularly timely given the news that Rep. Jeff Van Drew, a moderate Democrat from New Jersey, is expected to change parties, in part out of frustration with his own colleagues for pursuing what he calls a partisan and divisive impeachment based on “hearsay.” Republicans are already salivating at the prospect of holding up the soon-to-be former Democrat as a prime example that the party has overreached with impeachment and is repelling more moderate Americans.

AD

Enter Amash, who has been a vocal critic of Trump on Twitter, using the platform over the past few months to argue that Trump has breached the public’s trust, engaged in unethical behavior and should be impeached.

On Friday, Amash jabbed Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) for saying he would coordinate with the White House to acquit Trump rather than remain impartial. He also lambasted Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) for telling CNN in an interview that “I’m not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here.”

“Senator Graham has chosen to violate his oath to support and defend the Constitution, his oath to do impartial justice in an impeachment trial, and his duty to represent all the people of his state, not just those who share his political views or desire a particular outcome,” Amash wrote.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45681

Posted
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4 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

SIAP... Can Surly legal and constitutional scholars weigh in on this suggestion? While echoing Conway, the perspective of Dean seems significant. 

http://mobile.twitter.com/JohnWDean/status/1202306453513494528

I’ve been saying this from the get go. Don’t give the senate the chance to acquit. Don’t know if it actually works that way though. 

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6163

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/14/2019 at 3:05 PM, Bruh Man said:

 

Graham is the ultimate opportunist. This is a gentler way of saying he is a damn traitor who needs to be deported to Antarctica. He is the worst kind of human being. If the winds are blowing a certain way he will follow them.

When Dotard loses and Lindsey claims he was trying to save the country by reigning in a dementia-riddled old man who has lost all control of his mental faculties, try and remember he said his best friend was John McCain. McCain was a man who hated everything Dotard stands for and yet Graham hitched his wagon to this shitshow with a shit-eating grin on his face and all the while cared nothing about his countrymen unless they were Maga supporters. 

Edited by UpperWestside
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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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36 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

there was some version floated that has it never get to the senate (and obviously no possibility of removal).  it had to be 5-6 months ago, but maybe someone remembers the details.

Correct - that was already being thought out months ago.  Given how rare and unique each impeachment has been, it's apparent we're witnessing things unfold in a new and unpredictable way.  Arriving at two tight articles of impeachment ready to go to full house vote this week and observing R's response and conduct has been a process which will inform near term decisions.  I do think the Senate will bluff every way imaginable to avoid votes for acquittal, especially to protect those vulnerable R seats.  

Either way, it's clear the House is churning ahead with impeachment inquiries:

They've got multiple options here, and I'm not sure any one option is wrong or bad.  Both House and Senate will be navigating a lot of this on the fly as circumstances dictate, but actually completing an impeachment of Trump next week with two tight articles, with or without immediate presentation to the Senate, is a major step in the right direction.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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I'm not super good with polls, but hasn't RealClearPolitics just taken one category from an aggregate of polls (Impeach & Remove) and used that to bolster their argument? Seems a little shifty. Does it include those that approve impeachment but don't believe removal will happen?

 

The President will have lunch with the VP today, and then participate in a roundtable this afternoon. *(Governors' Initiative on Regulatory Innovation) All are closed press. Former Presidents, including Obama do this from time to time, but this administration has increasingly become closed off to public information with that regard. Troubling.

Trump is also tweeting a lot this morning albeit not at the same frenzy as last week. His minder has either forgotten to proofread,  is absentmindedly using the wrong perspective of speech, or Trump is referring to himself in the third person again.

 

*Handcuffs are off boys and girls! Feel free to raid your states' coffers! Taxpayer dollars for free, for free!

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

RealClearPolitics just taken one category from an aggregate of polls (Impeach & Remove) and used that to bolster their argument? Seems a little shifty. Does it include those that approve impeachment but don't believe removal will happen?

You can check any third party media bias watchdog and see RealClearPolitics is a center-right wing outfit.  

They’re a big part of the problem because everyone assumes they’re playing it down the center but they aren’t.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho

Goredho 17402

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

 

19 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

And another.

Where’s the concern trolls from two weeks ago that were all up in here talking about support for impeachment declining?

 

These polls are irrelevant.  What the American people want is insignificant.  We need to see state-by-state polls of likely voters to see what pressure there is on which senators to predict what Americans will get.  

HAHAHAHAHA, no we don’t.  Who am I kidding?  The recent statements from McConnell, Graham, etc... is all the polling we need.  The only threat to them with their constituents is to oppose Trump.  Do you hear that almost imperceptible, gentle queefing sound?  That is impeachment passing by with no effect as Trump and the GOP keep hammer-fucking America.

And so it will be up to us citizens to stop the madness. Through votes, assuming they will still matter, or bullets and blood if they don’t.  Or most likely we will simply content ourselves to live out our reasonably comfortable lives distracted by the NFL, Kardashians or whatever as democracy flatlines in the background.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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50 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You can check any third party media bias watchdog and see RealClearPolitics is a center-right wing outfit.  

They’re a big part of the problem because everyone assumes they’re playing it down the center but they aren’t.

How do they not play it down the center?  Are they excluding certain polls that you’d like included?

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22694

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

How do they not play it down the center?  Are they excluding certain polls that you’d like included?

The website was literally formed to cater to the right.

https://www.princeton.edu/paw/web_exclusives/more/more_20.html

...The articles selected invariably demonstrate McIntyre and Bevan's political bent, about which they are unabashedly forthcoming. The Web site itself informs that " RealClearPolitics attempts to counterbalance the common liberal bias of the mainstream press...

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

How do they not play it down the center?  Are they excluding certain polls that you’d like included?

They do exclude polls but that’s not my beef.  The way they format their RCP average is also arbitrary, sometimes it’s based on three polls and sometimes it’s six.  Who gets to decide which polls go into the average? No one knows. 

But their polling methods and presentation isn’t what’s really biased about RCP.  It’s their “journalism” and reporting side that frames stories through a Republican perspective, like the tweet above which is presented without larger context.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45919

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Posted

538 is showing a slight downturn in support for impeachment and removal, too.  I have similar questions about how they aggregate the polls as well.  I don't dispute the numbers, I just don't know enough to be confident that every poll included -- or the net of the included polls -- represents a valid cross section of voters.

They also report data for "support of impeachment" by party (Republican/Democrat/Independent), which shows no significant change in almost 3 months.  Of course, this doesn't reflect any shifting between parties or party-to-independent movement.  Presumably those shifts are tiny, but maybe not.

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