impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[Brisketexan 105,432]

13 minutes ago, HornPhD said:

Is High January possible  absolutely fucking necessary?

FIFY.

And, yes.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,900]

 

17 minutes ago, HornPhD said:

Is High January possible?

if not I've been doing it wrong for 16 days already

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,900]

wait, what?

 

[DDD Dad 14,352]

7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

wait, what?

 

 

[Lagunamadre 1,975]

19 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

wait, what?

 

How in the fuck is Lev only 47? 

[Queen Bitch 1,692]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

And I'm doing fucking Dry January.

We're officially made it halfway. Hang in there.

[Tuco 5,084]

How in the fuck is Lev only 47? 

I suddenly feel very old.

[triplehorn 2,664]

It turns out Lev, the guy Donald doesn’t even know, worked for Fred Trump in the 80’s when Donald worked for his dad.  At 47 today, that would have made Lev pretty damn young to be working for Fred.  Wonder what Lev’s hookup was.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

And I'm doing fucking Dry January.

Quitter. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 hours ago, Lagunamadre said:

How in the fuck is Lev only 47? 

No shit. I’m almost that old. I hope I don’t actually look like that. 

[jimmyjazz 46,221]

5 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

It turns out Lev, the guy Donald doesn’t even know, worked for Fred Trump in the 80’s when Donald worked for his dad.  At 47 today, that would have made Lev pretty damn young to be working for Fred.  Wonder what Lev’s hookup was.

OK, that's stretching it.  If he's 47 now (doubtful) that would make him 16 at the OLDEST if he worked for Fred Trump in the 1980's.

[smuggs 9,353]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

OK, that's stretching it.  If he's 47 now (doubtful) that would make him 16 at the OLDEST if he worked for Fred Trump in the 1980's.

That’s unbeLevable.

[DDD Dad 14,352]

It turns out Lev, the guy Donald doesn’t even know, worked for Fred Trump in the 80’s when Donald worked for his dad.  At 47 today, that would have made Lev pretty damn young to be working for Fred.  Wonder what Lev’s hookup was.

Source?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Considering how Melania became a citizen and eventual First Lady, why would anyone assume his birth certificate is truthful?

[triplehorn 2,664]

4 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Source?

https://mobile.twitter.com/HillReporter/status/1217941986298208257

[Party_Taco 3,776]

This is all so fascinating and terrifying... I can only imagine the type of information that will come to light when the senate sweeps this under the rug.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Even Ivana knew Fraud Guarantee. Looks like no one deletes their photos. I guess I'm doing it wrong.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
Spelling

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Here is a much more detailed story on Lev Parnas, Fraud Guarantee, its roots and a whole lot of shady business. It also includes more details on the actual charges brought against Parnas and the campaign laws. Very interesting and pretty good but long. Rather than quoting a lot from the article, below is the link. Spend a little time reading it if you'd like to have some knowledge about the whole saga. Russo-American criminal syndicate in the WH, that's what we have essentially.

https://www.emptywheel.net/author/jim-white/page/2/?mode=grid&print=print-search

[Biff Tannen 45,750]

Wow ok that was a lot. I think Brisket’s explanation was the least terrifying. Pass the Scotch. And I don’t even drink Scotch. 

[Born to Run 6,569]

 
if not I've been doing it wrong for 16 days already

I should get into the weed to ledge delivery game.

[Biff Tannen 45,750]

1 minute ago, Born to Run said:

5 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 
if not I've been doing it wrong for 16 days already

I should get into the weed to ledge delivery game.

Oh it’s a scene man. 

[Born to Run 6,569]

Oh it’s a scene man. 

Crazy times!

[Bama Chick 28,596]

https://mobile.twitter.com/HillReporter/status/1217941986298208257

Ehhhhhh, no blue check mark and it’s run by the Krassenstein brothers..... I appreciate their mission but they’re kind of shady.

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

3 hours ago, Party_Taco said:

This is all so fascinating and terrifying... I can only imagine the type of information that will come to light when the senate sweeps this under the rug.

It really doesn't matter. Trump was right. He could kill someone on 5th avenue. 

McConnell and Co would squash it just like they're squashing this. 

And we know where McConnell draws the line.  There is no line he won't cross to end our demcoracy.  The real question is where is the line that gets Brisket off the ledge and onto the front line?  If everyone is just going to go to the ledge and stay, Trump may as well just kill Biden on 5th avenue and we can call it a day for America. 

[notre dame joe 197]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:21 AM, jimmyjazz said:

What evidence would be necessary to impeach a President?

You should really think of that before you Impeach.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

8 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wow ok that was a lot. I think Brisket’s explanation was the least terrifying. Pass the Scotch. And I don’t even drink Scotch. 

The scary thing for me is remembering Maria Butina and her level of access. Think about some of the people you saw sitting behind the witnesses and the Congressional Committee members during the Inquiry. I have little doubt that there were representatives of Putin or the Russian/American organizations in and around that room. Lev has been in this country since he was young just as Col. Vindman has been. Not everyone chooses the same career path.

[jimmyjazz 46,221]

6 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

You should really think of that before you Impeach.

Non-responsive.  Let's try a slightly different version:  is any evidence necessary to impeach a President?

[TwiceHorn 31,551]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Non-responsive.  Let's try a slightly different version:  is any evidence necessary to impeach a President?

No.  I don't think so.  Something must persuade the House to impeach and the Senate to convict, and I suppose that something could be called evidence.  But in the judicial/legal sense, no specific quantum of evidence is required.  No burden of proof, no quantum sufficient to overcome summary judgment/directed verdict, and no quantum necessary to support the votes of the House and Senate on appeal.

[jimmyjazz 46,221]

19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No.  I don't think so.  Something must persuade the House to impeach and the Senate to convict, and I suppose that something could be called evidence.  But in the judicial/legal sense, no specific quantum of evidence is required.  No burden of proof, no quantum sufficient to overcome summary judgment/directed verdict, and no quantum necessary to support the votes of the House and Senate on appeal.

Correct.  I don't think our friend from South Bend is going to agree, and he wasn't going to answer, anyway.

As has been said many times here, impeachment is a political process.  The DOJ won't indict a sitting President, so here we are.  It is not a criminal proceeding and the standards for prosecution are not the same, regardless of what Rush, Sean, Tucker and the gang would have us believe.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,431]

16 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

And I'm doing fucking Dry January.

fucking dry January sounds painful. Go get yourself some Astroglide or something. 

[triplehorn 2,664]

8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Ehhhhhh, no blue check mark and it’s run by the Krassenstein brothers..... I appreciate their mission but they’re kind of shady.

 

Ugh. yeah, no to the bitcoin bros.  True or not, it’s not really significant.  But I do appreciate the check.

Where he’s been and what he’s done in the last several years is where the focus needs to stay.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,528]

Pompeo on the alleged surveillance on Amb. Yovanovitch:

Quote

"Until this story broke, I had, to the best of my recollection, had never heard of this at all," Pompeo told Hugh Hewitt.

What a weird response. I understand not recalling everything that you read or heard. No one does, and no one should be held to that standard. But wouldn't that type of news stand out to you? Tells me that he its possible that this news was delivered to him before and he's distancing himself from it.

 

full story: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/17/politics/pompeo-yovanovitch-surveillance/index.html

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

So he comes on board after Tillerson was fired back around April of 2018, right? Rudy and Co were already doing their business in Ukraine and Tillerson, would have briefed him about the 'side angle' foreign policy right?  Being ex-CIA, seems like he probably knew, remembered and perhaps even privately balked (at the time) about her potentially being harmed, and got her out of there through intermediaries. Your suspicion regarding a tip off sounds plausible.

[Foosters 17,889]

12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Pompeo on the alleged surveillance on Amb. Yovanovitch:

What a weird response. I understand not recalling everything that you read or heard. No one does, and no one should be held to that standard. But wouldn't that type of news stand out to you? Tells me that he its possible that this news was delivered to him before and he's distancing himself from it.

 

full story: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/17/politics/pompeo-yovanovitch-surveillance/index.html

It's what liars say when they know there is evidence to refute their denial. Gives them an out. 

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

18 minutes ago, Foosters said:

It's what liars say when they know there is evidence to refute their denial. Gives them an out. 

Yup.  He knew and is trying to cover his ass.

[NWBuck 8,587]

1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

fucking dry January sounds painful. Go get yourself some Astroglide or something. 

I'm willing to give it a try... you know, for research.

Edited January 17, 2020 by NWBuck

[RomaVicta 30,031]

18 hours ago, Captainant said:

I'll shamelessly steal this well-written and documented breakdown of the Lev Parnas stuff:

Spoiler

Who is Lev Parnas? President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani was working with associates in Ukraine to fabricate dirt on a domestic political rival while attempting to discredit the Russian election interference outlined in the Mueller Report. Giuliani's associates have since been arrested by U.S. authorities and charged for engaging in an illegal scheme to funnel foreign money into American political campaigns. While working with Giuliani, Lev Parnas was simultaneously working on behalf of Pro-Russia Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash who is currently detained in Vienna fighting extradition to the U.S. on bribery and racketeering charges.

• Several associates of the President's personal attorney have been arrested and charged by the Justice Department for violating campaign finance laws. Giuliani's associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman were engaged in a scheme to funnel foreign money into American political campaigns so they could buy influence in the U.S.. They were arrested and charged by the Justice Department.^[1]

Lev Parnas, Igor Fruman, David Correia, and Andrey Kukushkin, the defendants, conspired to circumvent the federal laws against foreign influence by engaging in a scheme to funnel foreign money to candidates for federal and state office so that the defendants could buy potential influence with candidates, campaigns, and the candidates' governments. The defendants concealed the scheme from candidates, campaigns, federal regulators, and the public by entering into secret agreements, laundering foreign money through bank accounts in the names of limited liability corporations, and through the use of straw donors (also known as "conduits" or "straw contributors") who purported to make legal campaign contributions in their own names, rather than in the name of the true source of the funds.

• They tried to flee the U.S. to possibly Vienna, Austria.^[2]

Mr. Giuliani said Thursday that Messrs. Parnas and Fruman were headed to Vienna, Austria, on Wednesday evening for reasons related to their business. He said the two men had also left the country about two weeks ago and had traveled to Vienna between three and six times in the last two months. He said he had been scheduled to meet with the two when they were to return to Washington within days.

• Around the same time his associates were arrested at Dulles airport, Giuliani told a reporter that he was about to fly out to Vienna.^[3]

• A Pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch is currently detained in Vienna, Austria and has been fighting extradition since 2014. Dmytro Firtash is fighting extradition to the U.S. on bribery and racketeering charges. He has seized upon Trump's lies and attacks against Biden as a way to fight extradition.^[4] Rudy Giuliani's indicted associate Lev Parnas was working on behalf of Firtash.^[5] Firtash was coordinating with American conservative journalists, such as John Solomon, and was sharing documents with Giuliani that make controversial allegations against Mueller and Joe Biden. Giuliani shared this information on American conservative media outlets exclaiming that the witness he was relying on was none other than the thoroughly discredited and corrupt former Ukrainian Prosector General Viktor Shokin.^[6] Furthermore, pro-Russia oligarch Dmytro Firtash has hired Fox news regulars and ardent supporters of President Trump, Victoria Toensing and Joseph DiGenova, as his legal representation.^[7]

In his frequent appearances on cable news, Giuliani has presented some of these documents to the American public as evidence for his claims of wrongdoing by Mueller and Biden. The key document is an affidavit from a former Ukrainian prosecutor who accuses Biden of corruption. “The witness I’m relying on,” Giuliani told Fox News on Oct. 6, was the prosecutor Viktor Shokin. “That’s the affidavit I put out,” Giuliani added. He did not mention that the affidavit was obtained by the Firtash legal team. At the beginning of the document, Shokin writes that he is making the statement “at the request of lawyers acting for Dmitry Firtash.”

...Firtash has established close ties to the former mayor of New York City in part by recruiting several of Giuliani’s associates. In July the oligarch hired two lawyers who have been helping Giuliani in his campaign to discredit Trump’s critics: Victoria Toensing and Joseph DiGenova, a married couple Trump considered hiring in 2018 as part of his private legal team. Best known as diehard defenders of Trump on Fox News, the couple has combed through the oligarch’s case files and used some of them in the effort to defend Trump on television and in the press.

• We have learned that President Trump removed Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch from her post following complaints from Giuliani and his associates.^[8] Former Republican congressman Pete Sessions began to attack Ambassador Yovanovitch on conservative media outlets. From recent indictments we have learned that Pete Sessions was being funded by Giuliani's associates Parnas and Fruman.^[9] Parnas and Fruman have been indicted by the DoJ for trying to bribe American politicians. Furthermore, we know Lev Parnas was working for a pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch that's currently fighting extradition to the U.S. for bribery and racketeering charges. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch was a career public servant that supported anti-corruption initiatives in Ukraine, however she was removed from her position.^[10] Under the direction of President Trump, Giuliani and his associates attempted to pressure the Ukrainian government to discredit Russian election interference. Moreover, President Trump attempted to pressure the newly elected Ukrainian President to publicly announce a fabricated investigation into Trump's domestic political rival on CNN.^[11]

---

1) United States District Court Southern District of New York - United States of America v. Lev Parnas, Igor Fruman, David Correia, and Andrey Kukushkin

2) Wall Street Journal - Two Giuliani Associates Who Helped Him on Ukraine Charged With Campaign-Finance Violations: Prosecutors say Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman were part of a conspiracy to funnel foreign money into U.S. elections

3) The Atlantic - The Mystery of Rudy Giuliani’s Vienna Trip

4) Foreign Policy - Giuliani’s Claims Spread to Another Ukraine Corruption Case

5) Reuters - Indicted Giuliani associate worked on behalf of Ukrainian oligarch Firtash

6) Kyiv Post - Azarov, Shokin, Lutsenko: A trio that only certain foreign journalists find credible

7) TIME - Exclusive: How a Ukrainian Oligarch Wanted by U.S. Authorities Helped Giuliani Attack Biden

😎 Wall Street Journal - Trump Ordered Ukraine Ambassador Removed After Complaints From Giuliani, Others

9) Roll Call - Former Rep. Pete Sessions met with indicted Giuliani associates, accepted donations

10) NPR - How Former Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch Became A Target In Ukraine

11) NPR - STATEMENT OF DAVID A. HOLMES U.S. EMBASSY KYIV, DEPARTMENT OF STATE BEFORE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE CONCERNING THE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY

 

A thousand thank-yous.

I watched some TV news Wed and Thurs. Analysis show after analysis show where they show occasional photos of principal characters they discuss without much other visual aid. WE'RE NOT ALL POLITICAL JUNKIES WHO KNOW THE ROSTERS!

The new stations are too lazy to get graphics people to diagram faces into a flow chart of connections. The Ukranian names are not easy on the English speaking memory. Fucking help your viewers more and yuck it up about your sly inside knowledge less.

Some of the analysis is very good, but the clarity of the big picture is lacking.

Rachel Maddow's strength is explaining complex stories. If you are already way in the know, her show can seem slow. If you have only heard of a story and want to catch up, it's a digestible.seminar delivered in under an hour. Even she could use with more graphic help.

Simple Example: Soup to nuts on conspiracy and cover up.

Abuse of Power

Trump  → Giullianni → Parnas  → Ukraine power brokers 

Conspiracy to cover-up

Parnas → Carter → Nunez (Ranking Member of Impeachment investigation, Make mob operative district attorney) → Trump (Nunez openly consults White House) → GOP united to block investigation

Trump/Pompeo → Guilliani →  🤢 → Yovanavich Smear Campaign (removal to both forward conspiracy and deter investigation.)

[RomaVicta 30,031]

32 minutes ago, Foosters said:

It's what liars say when they know there is evidence to refute their denial. Gives them an out. 

During Watergate, Haldeman and Ehrlichman, who could probably tell you what socks Nixon was wearing on any given day, got a case of "Not that I recall" when they faced the committee. Haldeman's diary which has been released in pieces over the years is a gold mine for remembering just what a scumbag Nixon. Still, all smart men. I prefer being ruled by villains smarter than I am.

[WhatTheBuck 28,806]

41 minutes ago, Foosters said:

It's what liars say when they know there is evidence to refute their denial. Gives them an out. 

Aka the Reagan defense. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

21 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

During Watergate, Haldeman and Ehrlichman, who could probably tell you what socks Nixon was wearing on any given day, got a case of "Not that I recall" when they faced the committee. Haldeman's diary which has been released in pieces over the years is a gold mine for remembering just what a scumbag Nixon. Still, all smart men. I prefer being ruled by villains smarter than I am.

Sondland was working from that playbook, but he didn't spend enough time in the film room, so he looked a little shell-shocked. He got more comfortable with lying forgetting while he spent time in the chair in front of the committee. It's why the truth is so helpful: what you know, you know.

[Tuco 5,084]

A couple of bits from the Parnas texts, which are mostly in Ukrainian. 

Igor Kolomoysky - he's the mobster-oligarch who owns the media outlet that Zelensky made his name one.  He is considered a backer of Zelenksy.  Parnas and Fruman previously had tried to recruit him for help, and he gave them an emphatic refusal.  On 9/21/19, Igor texts Parnas a wikipedia page for John Durham, with a text that says "who this" (I think).  Durham is the US attorney that Barr assigned to investigate the origins of the FBI investigation.  If that investigation is putting a US attorney in Kolo's sphere, that could irritate him a bit.  This might explain why Lev is going state's evidence.  He might be caught between Firtash and Kolomysky. 

The texts between Harry Sargeant and Parnas are revealing, and surprising to me.  At the beginning of each conversation, there is a count of messages.  For most of the conversations, it's maybe 200-500.  For Sargeant, it's 2745 messages.  There is a lot in that conversation which they haven't released. 

And, one for the "only the best people" file:  Parnas communicated with Andriy Yermak, one of Zelensky's close advisers, presumably to work out the responses as the shit was hitting the fan.  On 10/3, I think Yermak was having Parnas proof a message he was going to send to Rudy: 

Quote

Dear Mr. Mayor:

This is in reference to your twitter post earlier today in which you posted both the contents of a private message I sent you and disclosed my private cell number to the general public.  Please note that I DO NOT consent to my private messages or cell number being disclosed to the general public. Additionally, revealing my cell phone number to the world, place me at significant personal risk.

Please remove the the relevant tweet immediately.

 

 

[Tuco 5,084]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Trump/Pompeo → Guilliani →  🤢 → Yovanavich Smear Campaign (removal to both forward conspiracy and deter investigation.)

Nope.  

Firtash ---($1M documented)--> Lev/Igor--($500k documented)--> Guilliani --(Burisma investigation)--> Trump --> Yovanovich removal 

Along the way, the picked up Sargeant, who wanted her removal to open LNG markets and Lutshenko who wanted it to take pressure off the Prosecutor General's office, but I think that structure is above is roughly correct.  Trump really had no reason to want her removal. It was just his payment for something he wanted.  

[notre dame joe 197]

6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Non-responsive.  Let's try a slightly different version:  is any evidence necessary to impeach a President?

Of course it's non responsive.  It's not the accused's job to help the accusers articulate their case.  The dream scenario is that Dersh forces the Chief Justice to rule on whether the Ds have even pled a "high crime or misdemeanor" even by assuming they have evidence.  

[jimmyjazz 46,221]

3 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

Of course it's non responsive.  It's not the accused's job to help the accusers articulate their case.  The dream scenario is that Dersh forces the Chief Justice to rule on whether the Ds have even pled a "high crime or misdemeanor" even by assuming they have evidence.  

So you admit that the process has played out within the rules, to date?

You REALLY suck at this.

[jimmyjazz 46,221]

Just shave it all off, Lev:

 

[tantric superman 4,668]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Just shave it all off, Lev:

 

Tells his barber:  "Just give me the Charlie Brown and a shave*."

(*One of the late nite hosts used that line).

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,900]

dude looks like he hasn't slept in weeks

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

The texts between Harry Sargeant and Parnas are revealing, and surprising to me.  At the beginning of each conversation, there is a count of messages.  For most of the conversations, it's maybe 200-500.  For Sargeant, it's 2745 messages.  There is a lot in that conversation which they haven't released.

 

That was something I, too, found interesting. Sargeant is in Florida, and Parnas has been in Florida for quite awhile according to that article I posted the link to last night. He was selling real estate to Russians apparently (I can't recall if the article said that was linked to Trump condos to or not, I'll have to go back and reread it-it was a very long researched article) so these two have been circulating for awhile although in at least one of the texts, Sargeant was a little dismissive at times but as he pointed out in one of the texts he was having drinks with Otto so maybe he was drunk texting. I doubt they were BFFs as my kids would say, but I cannot believe the remainder are all media articles that they both seemed fond of reading.

I wonder if the Feds got Hyde's phone in time and if so, if there was anything on it. Was Sargeant doing the actual monitoring, or am I correct in that he was helping Parnas by paying someone to do it? Who was actually watching her, how, and with what means?

[notre dame joe 197]

16 hours ago, Foosters said:

It's what liars say when they know there is evidence to refute their denial. Gives them an out. 

Or in James Comey's case, 245 outs.

[Tuco 5,084]

That was something I, too, found interesting. Sargeant is in Florida, and Parnas has been in Florida for quite awhile according to that article I posted the link to last night. He was selling real estate to Russians apparently (I can't recall if the article said that was linked to Trump condos to or not, I'll have to go back and reread it-it was a very long researched article) so these two have been circulating for awhile although in at least one of the texts, Sargeant was a little dismissive at times but as he pointed out in one of the texts he was having drinks with Otto so maybe he was drunk texting. I doubt they were BFFs as my kids would say, but I cannot believe the remainder are all media articles that they both seemed fond of reading.
I wonder if the Feds got Hyde's phone in time and if so, if there was anything on it. Was Sargeant doing the actual monitoring, or am I correct in that he was helping Parnas by paying someone to do it? Who was actually watching her, how, and with what means?

I think Hyde was either fucking with Lev, possibly trying to scam him, or just crazy. There is a lot of weirdness overall, but I would be surprised if that angle has legs. I think Hyde’s main involvement is either in the PR side (which also seems like a scam) or possibly as a straw donor.

There is an article out there about how Lev made the LBG pitch to Sargeant in early 2019. It implied they didn’t know each other previously, but who knows.