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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11763

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I mean, really though this makes no difference. This whole thing is all for show.

Unless the Dems can make Bolton and Mulvaney and Pompey ,etc all testify then this is all likely moot. Hell even if they did the best case scenario is that it hurts Trump in the election. 

 

40-43% of the population is with Trump no matter what. 

There’s not 20 swing senators so removal is not going to happen.

It’s sad but our democracy crumbles away before our eyes and most people don’t care enough to stop scrolling though their social media feed.

 

Sorry I just got all sullen for some reason.

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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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deech

deech 2251

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1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


Yup. He’s most proud of Combat Infantryman Badge, and when prompted “oh yeah also a Bronze Star and some other valor medals or whatever I guess, NBD.”

It makes me proud to know there are men like this working for us, and should shame these clowns who are lucky enough to sit in his presence, let alone press him for answers.

Exactly.  The most comforting part of this entire process is that there are people like Taylor and Kent on the front lines representing the US and its interests.  So much more faith in them than Congress or the White House.  I guess that makes me team #Deepstate.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89396

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45 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I haven’t been able to watch much of this, but Kent and Taylor both seemed very credible when I was watching.  As expected, the GOP Congressmen were absurd.   The Democratic Congressmen were generally good on their questions, except I saw a bit from Castro and Swalwell who were ineffective and douchey.

Even though they are Trump admin appointees, I’m all for Taylor/Kent 2020

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5782

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8 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I mean, really though this makes no difference. This whole thing is all for show.

Unless the Dems can make Bolton and Mulvaney and Pompey ,etc all testify then this is all likely moot. Hell even if they did the best case scenario is that it hurts Trump in the election. 

 

40-43% of the population is with Trump no matter what. 

There’s not 20 swing senators so removal is not going to happen.

It’s sad but our democracy crumbles away before our eyes and most people don’t care enough to stop scrolling though their social media feed.

 

Sorry I just got all sullen for some reason.

 

Hey, maybe he won't be removed and thrown in prison like he should, but.... 

 

"Ford's granting of a pardon to his predecessor, Richard Nixon, along with soaring inflation caused by the 1973 oil crisis, created a tough environment for the Republican Party. Democrats won net gains of four seats in the Senate, 49 seats in the House of Representatives, and four seats in the gubernatorial elections. Many of the newly-elected Democrats were Northern liberals, shifting the balance of power away from conservative Southern Democrats."

 

 

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89396

Posted
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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

This shit show cannot go on for months.  No one can take this beating.  I think the only hope is that people see what obvious hacks and dumbasses the Rs are and will vote against them purely for being idiots.

 

41 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i mean, the republicans cannot believe what they are claiming, or they are mentally deficient. they are not at all interested in the truth. this is not surprising in and of itself, i suppose - there are always going to be some zero sum partisan tomfoolery. but we have fewer john mccains and more jim jordans, and it's making the republicans completely cynical. jim jordan knows that trump fucked up. he's probably so angry because the cards he's been dealt are so fucking laughably terrible that he is forced into theater of the absurd.

of course, he could actually have some fucking principles and call out our president for blatant corruption. but the republicans are not wired that way. even the arguments and lies they are peddling are beyond absurd.

it's fucking maddening that they are arguing 2 + 2 = - 3. no sham, no sham, they are the sham

On the one hand, people can be that fucking stupid.  

On the other hand, the people claiming the GOP is thoroughly compromised have a compelling argument when you look at the Republican statements and questions today, because there’s only so much dumbassery to go around.  

Jordan, Nunes, Radcliffe, etc. are scared. Very scared.  Something is up.   

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18646

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1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

On the one hand, people can be that fucking stupid.  

On the other hand, the people claiming the GOP is thoroughly compromised have a compelling argument when you look at the Republican statements and questions today, because there’s only so much dumbassery to go around.  

Jordan, Nunes, Radcliffe, etc. are scared. Very scared.  Something is up.   

They have no reason to be scared unless and until members start peeling off because of public opinion.

 

 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11541

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8 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

 

Hey, maybe he won't be removed and thrown in prison like he should, but.... 

 

"Ford's granting of a pardon to his predecessor, Richard Nixon, along with soaring inflation caused by the 1973 oil crisis, created a tough environment for the Republican Party. Democrats won net gains of four seats in the Senate, 49 seats in the House of Representatives, and four seats in the gubernatorial elections. Many of the newly-elected Democrats were Northern liberals, shifting the balance of power away from conservative Southern Democrats."

 

 

 

Is this the anger or bargaining stage of grief?

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11763

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Yeah... IDK.

All the Republicans have to do is sew doubt. Then people will just put up there hands and go on their way.

“Quid pro quo? Isn’t that from the Harry Potter movie?“

“ Zalinsky? You talkin’ about Honey I Shrunk the Kids?”

 

Unless there’s a tape of Donald Trump admitting to the thing.... oh wait. 

He beat that rap before.

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deech

deech 2251

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Posted
Just now, Dnaguy said:

Yeah... IDK.

All the Republicans have to do is sew doubt. Then people will just put up there hands and go on their way.

“Quid pro quo? Isn’t that from the Harry Potter movie?“

“ Zalinsky? You talkin’ about Honey I Shrunk the Kids?”

 

Unless there’s a tape of Donald Trump admitting to the thing.... oh wait. 

He beat that rap before.

Based on testimony today there 100% is a recording.  If the staffer to Taylor is to be believed, our beloved leader and his ambassador to the EU decided that instead of talking on secure phone lines they would have a conversation on a cell phone.  I guarantee you Russia has the conversation fully recorded.  The only question is how many other governments have that conversation fully recorded?  The difficulty is that no government will admit to having it, but I'm hopeful someone just drops it on wikileaks to turn the entire debacle on its head.

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11763

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1 minute ago, deech said:

Based on testimony today there 100% is a recording.  If the staffer to Taylor is to be believed, our beloved leader and his ambassador to the EU decided that instead of talking on secure phone lines they would have a conversation on a cell phone.  I guarantee you Russia has the conversation fully recorded.  The only question is how many other governments have that conversation fully recorded?  The difficulty is that no government will admit to having it, but I'm hopeful someone just drops it on wikileaks to turn the entire debacle on its head.

That would be an interesting plot twist.

Wikileaks dropping stuff that hurts Trump. An obvious foreign government leak to Wikileaks that ends up taking down trump. 

Now that would be fitting. 

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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

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Based on testimony today there 100% is a recording.  If the staffer to Taylor is to be believed, our beloved leader and his ambassador to the EU decided that instead of talking on secure phone lines they would have a conversation on a cell phone.  I guarantee you Russia has the conversation fully recorded.  The only question is how many other governments have that conversation fully recorded?  The difficulty is that no government will admit to having it, but I'm hopeful someone just drops it on wikileaks to turn the entire debacle on its head.
Just another way Trump is compromised
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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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8 minutes ago, deech said:

Based on testimony today there 100% is a recording.  If the staffer to Taylor is to be believed, our beloved leader and his ambassador to the EU decided that instead of talking on secure phone lines they would have a conversation on a cell phone.  I guarantee you Russia has the conversation fully recorded.  The only question is how many other governments have that conversation fully recorded?  The difficulty is that no government will admit to having it, but I'm hopeful someone just drops it on wikileaks to turn the entire debacle on its head.

HENRY (Voice Over) So, what does she do after she hangs up with me? After everything I had told her? After all her yeah, yeah, yeah, bullshit? She picks up the phone and calls from the house. Now, if anybody was listening, they'd know everything. They'd know that a package was leaving from my house and they'd even have the time and the flight number. Thanks to her.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89396

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57 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

They've already pulled it off. The next few months are purely an exercise in futility. If there was any chance of anything but a purely party line vote in the Senate, Republicans like Graham wouldn't be acting so flippant and brash. This whole thing is purely an optics battle for about 8% of the country's hearts and minds.

Graham and Trump do not act like confident men, who have a comfortable margin of victory.   They are angry, scared, and clearly trying to keep Rs in line.  

If they were confident, like I said earlier, Trump would have ordered everybody around him to go testify. 

Graham and Trump aren’t targeting Democrats when they rant, because Democrats don’t give a shit about what they have to say.  They are 100% targeting other Rs.  

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4805

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1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

"The President cannot steal taxpayer dollars to extort a foreign government into rigging his reelection."

But it's not about Ukraine rigging the election, it's partially about Ukraine appearing to have rigged the election to take the fall for Russia actually doing it, both in the past and the future.   The Rs are doing all this grandstanding to keep it on the Ukrainian calls, thus away from the bad stuff, aka Russia interference and influence.  The media and D's need to cut through all this and lay out some serious accusations now, before everyone is tone deaf to this whole thing.    It's not about quid pro quo, it's about national security.  That's what needs to come out. 

22 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

On the one hand, people can be that fucking stupid.  

On the other hand, the people claiming the GOP is thoroughly compromised have a compelling argument when you look at the Republican statements and questions today, because there’s only so much dumbassery to go around.  

Jordan, Nunes, Radcliffe, etc. are scared. Very scared.  Something is up.   

They all are indebted to Putin through the NRA and who knows who else Russia laundered money through.  And I wouldn't doubt if this gets deep enough there will be Kompromat on them.  Jordan and his OSU mess, for instance.  All they are doing is throwing red herrings out in hopes that the public throws up their hands and says "Stop the Madness!!"

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Graham and Trump do not act like confident men, who have a comfortable margin of victory.   They are angry, scared, and clearly trying to keep Rs in line.  

If they were confident, like I said earlier, Trump would have ordered everybody around him to go testify. 

Graham and Trump aren’t targeting Democrats when they rant, because Democrats don’t give a shit about what they have to say.  They are 100% targeting other Rs.  

exactly, the most damning of all the things is the stonewalling of congressional subpoenas. innocent men would honor those and go tell the truth. the only reason to stonewall is to avoid telling the truth under oath, or avoiding perjury.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It is.

And it's working. That's the kick in the face.

that's actually something i was thinking about earlier, depressing the fuck out of myself.

think about this: these motherfuckers and their ingenuous bullshittery are actually representing the majority of their constituents. this is what their constituents WANT. 

that's the real kick in the face.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33831

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Just now, David Dennison said:

That's the thing, it's not court. They can do and say pretty much whatever they want. It's up to voters to sanction them.

it's day 1, yo. I see this getting worse for Trump and a lot of other people before it gets better. let's see how this unfolds

as someone else mentioned, everyone should just submit their questions to Goldman and let him run the entire thing. damn was he impressive

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18646

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2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A majority of Americans support impeachment and that was before today. How exactly is the GOP's bullshit working?

A majority supports the inquiry. A plurality support impeaching the president.

But that doesn't matter. 

Not one Republican is going to vote for impeachment in the House. Some Democrats will vote against it.

Donald Trump is going to be acquitted in the Senate.

Their bullshit is working.

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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5105

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2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A majority of Americans support impeachment and that was before today. How exactly is the GOP's bullshit working?

Its not a big enough majority to get the GOP to follow the will of the people instead of the GOP party line.  That's how its not working.  Hopefully as more comes out it will.  

I do think its funny they are labeling these 2 as the star witnesses as if this the best witnesses there are. They are trying to get people to tune out before people who were on the call start testifying.  

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

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14 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

What the fuck does that mean? One was the fucking Ambassador to Ukraine. No firsthand knowledge? Of what? The fucking call that is one act of an elaborate scheme. The deceit by these motherfuckers is outrageous.

The problem is that there are plenty of people, like zavala, who are dumb enough to fall for this obvious bullshit.  

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1384

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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

FUCKING THIS.  No one besides him and Schiff should be allowed to speak on the D side.

Presumably he got all the time he needed. Agree the rest is a waste of time, makes it looks more political. Leave the questioning to the pro.

I didn't get to watch, briefly read about it, did the republicans get any admissions? Do they have anything?

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45538

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14 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

so did I understand Schiff's closing remarks to mean that he has not spoken to the whistleblower nor does he know their identity? did i hear that right? someone interrupted me during that segment so I only half listened

Schiff was quite clear in his comments today that he does not know the identity of the whistleblower.

Obviously, Shifty Schiff must be lying, because Benghazi!

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deech

deech 2251

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10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

A majority supports the inquiry. A plurality support impeaching the president.

But that doesn't matter. 

Not one Republican is going to vote for impeachment in the House. Some Democrats will vote against it.

Donald Trump is going to be acquitted in the Senate.

Their bullshit is working.

So?

I mean I completely agree with your analysis.  100%.  But then what?  Would you have them not make their case for impeachment?  The President and his minions competed an impeachable act.  You make the case in the House exactly like they are today.  You have solid, credible witnesses tell their story for all of America to see.   You make the case as best you can as clearly as you can.  Simple.  Then the vote is whatever the vote is.  

The alternative is to let slide an impeachable offense due to political calculation.  Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but you take the L if that is the end result for the system and hope that the public vote of R's and Trump's second term vindicates that L historically.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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It really is simple. Trump should be impeached because he is a criminal that has put his own interests above those of the country. 

If the criminal enterprise we call the Republican Party wants to let him get away with that, fine. Let history judge them for what they are, criminal hacks.

Future textbooks will spell out to our future children why Mitch McConnell was called “Moscow Mitch,” that Lindsay Graham was completely compromised but they are too young to view those tapes, and how comprised and corrupt the Republican Party became before completely disintegrating after the deaths of the baby boomers. 

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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5105

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8 minutes ago, deech said:

So?

I mean I completely agree with your analysis.  100%.  But then what?  Would you have them not make their case for impeachment?  The President and his minions competed an impeachable act.  You make the case in the House exactly like they are today.  You have solid, credible witnesses tell their story for all of America to see.   You make the case as best you can as clearly as you can.  Simple.  Then the vote is whatever the vote is.  

The alternative is to let slide an impeachable offense due to political calculation.  Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but you take the L if that is the end result for the system and hope that the public vote of R's and Trump's second term vindicates that L historically.

Pretty sure David agrees that's what you do, but he's decrying the fact that the Dems didn't do a good job today of creating any new undecideds, or swaying anyone's opinion.  He's actually hoping for impeachment AND a conviction still.  I think the rest of us already know its one of those times you take the L.

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deech

deech 2251

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1 minute ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Pretty sure David agrees that's what you do, but he's decrying the fact that the Dems didn't do a good job today of creating any new undecideds, or swaying anyone's opinion.  He's actually hoping for impeachment AND a conviction still.  I think the rest of us already know its one of those times you take the L.

It's not the Dems job to do that on the first day.  It's the witnesses job to make the case and Taylor and Kent were fantastic.  If the rest of the witnesses are as persuasive and honest as those two guys then I think two weeks of this will go a long way to swaying opinion.  

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

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Posted

USA is in massive, massive trouble. It's elected leaders are a bunch of criminal morons. 

Why would the republicans take this strategy? As soon as they knew trump was compromised in the Russia thing they should have invited impeachment, removed him from office, and let pence finish it out while they trumpet their religious self righteousness over and over for the next guy they want to throw out for president. Would have been easy and they wouldn't be looking like a bunch of idiots who are covering up criminal activity. They truly are morons. 

Any reasonable American with half an IQ point can see this is a clown show administration and it needs to be removed. Problem may be more than half of Americans are complete drooling idiots. If that turns out not to be the case and trump gets slaughtered in this next election the new Democrat president needs to set up the DOJ to prosecute the shit out of trump, his family, and all of the republicans complicit in this cover up and obstructing justice. You didn't show up for a mandatory subpoena? You get prosecuted. Make examples of the entire lot. 

That is the only way this country has any chance of coming out of this and rebounding at all towards respectability. 

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