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impeachment inquiry hearings thread

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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31 minutes ago, Tuco said:

 


I would start with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and China. The first two because our policy seems so inexplicably weird. China, because Trump keeps mentioning we should ask China about Biden.

I'm not an OG+E person, but I did read that Russia is increasing its exports, specifically to China IIRC. Trump does like to kowtow to Moscow. I also believe Greenland is opening up some leases in 2021, but I think they were talking to China more than anyone else in the game. (Since China has the $$).

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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I would start with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and China. The first two because our policy seems so inexplicably weird. China, because Trump keeps mentioning we should ask China about Biden.


And with Saudi Arabia, consider this: for the first couple of years I don’t think we actually had an ambassador to the Kingdom. Jared Kushner was our kid genius handling shit. It wasn’t until Kashoggi got fucking beheaded by the Saudi diplomatic core, did we actually decide that perhaps we should have a professional ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Previously it was just a shadow diplomacy out in the open, without a functioning professional counterpart.
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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24 minutes ago, Tuco said:

 


And with Saudi Arabia, consider this: for the first couple of years I don’t think we actually had an ambassador to the Kingdom. Jared Kushner was our kid genius handling shit. It wasn’t until Kashoggi got fucking beheaded by the Saudi diplomatic core, did we actually decide that perhaps we should have a professional ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Previously it was just a shadow diplomacy out in the open, without a functioning professional counterpart.

Jared Kushner is why I start doing a female version of green shirt guy whenever pro-Trump people I know bring up Hunter Biden. No doubt Hunter has had a privileged life and isn't squeaky clean in his personal choices, but he does have a few qualifications for some of the positions he's held while Jared goes haring around the world spreading his dad and FIL's shady politics.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19206

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1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I'm not an OG+E person, but I did read that Russia is increasing its exports, specifically to China IIRC. Trump does like to kowtow to Moscow. I also believe Greenland is opening up some leases in 2021, but I think they were talking to China more than anyone else in the game. (Since China has the $$).

Oil and gas out of Greenland isn’t even close to being economically viable in this environment. 

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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13253

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19 hours ago, horncyclist said:

So the facts are all there. This is done. Now 53 republicans decide if we have a Constitution or not. Or I guess 20 really. And probably fewer than that because if a few key Senators stand up, others will follow. 

Way fewer.  If miss Lindsay and Moscow Mitch decided to end Trump it would be ballgame. The rest would fall in line.

 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Campaign finance violations? Guilty.

Abuse of Power? Guilty.

Extortion? Bribery? Guilty.

I don't see a problem, Ted. It was pretty much a matter of doing what lawyers do when their client has multiple offenses isn't it?  It isn't a criminal trial per se, but as the Mad Hatter advised Alice:

“Really, now you ask me,” said Alice, very much confused, “I don’t think—”
“Then you shouldn’t talk,” said the Hatter.

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yoladu

yoladu 4094

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Jared Kushner is why I start doing a female version of green shirt guy whenever pro-Trump people I know bring up Hunter Biden. No doubt Hunter has had a privileged life and isn't squeaky clean in his personal choices, but he does have a few qualifications for some of the positions he's held while Jared goes haring around the world spreading his dad and FIL's shady politics.

For every Republican who exasperatedly questions what qualifications Hunter Biden had to be on the Burisma board, a picture of Jared Kushner needs to be flashed on the screen.

Edited by yoladu
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Captainant

Captainant 27680

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Why drink angrily and shitpost in the football board after a Texas shit-the-bed loss when I could drink angrily and post the newest drop of transcripts from joint depositions of Deputy Assistant to the President Timothy Morrison and Vice President Pence’s special adviser on Europe and Russia, Jennifer Williams??

Williams Key Excerpts:

  • On May 13, 2019, President Trump instructed Vice President Pence not to attend President Zelensky’s inauguration. (Page 36-38, 40)
  • In May 2019, Ms. Williams flagged for the Vice President news reports that Rudy Giuliani was advocating for Ukrainian investigations into the 2016 election and Burisma. (Page 26- 28)
  • On July 3, 2019, Ms. Williams learned of the hold on Ukraine security assistance, but she never received any further explanation for it. (Page 55, 115-117)
  • After listening to the President’s call on July 25, 2019, from the Situation Room, Ms. Williams felt it was “unusual and inappropriate” and that it “shed some light on possible other motivations behind a security assistance hold.” (Page 130, 148-149, 150)
  • Ms. Williams’ handwritten notes reflect that President Zelensky mentioned “Burisma” on the July 25th call, and she does not know why “Burisma” does not appear in the summary document released by the White House. (Page 66-67, 129; appended testimony)
  • The Vice President’s staff included a transcript of the July 25, 2019, call in his briefing book the same day that it took place. (Page 69-70, 108)
  • In September 2019, Ms. Williams read a first-person cable from Ambassador Bill Taylor about the importance of U.S. security assistance to Ukraine and agreed with his assessment that the hold on the aid was “folly.” (Page 125-127)

 

Morrison Key Excerpts:

  • There was a “second track” of engagement in Ukraine “chiefly led by Ambassador Sondland” that involved Rudy Giuliani and related to “Burisma,” “Hunter Biden,” and “the 2016 server.” (Page 22-23, 24)
  • The President gave Ambassador Sondland “instruction” on communicating with officials in Ukraine. (Page 230)
  • Before President Trump’s call with President Zelensky, Ambassador Sondland emailed White House staff “to inform us that he had spoken to the President that morning to brief him on the call.” (Page 30, 101)
  • After listening to the call on July 25, 2019, Mr. Morrison immediately advised NSC lawyers John Eisenberg and Michael Ellis to review and restrict access to the written record because it would be “damaging” if “its contents leaked.” (Page 41-42, 42-43, 50)
  • President Trump’s requests for Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and the 2016 election “had nothing to do with the issues that the interagency was working on” and “was not a part of the formal interagency policy process.” (Page 47, 101-102)
  • NSC Legal Advisor John Eisenberg said the July 25 call record was placed on the highly classified system by “mistake,” but it nevertheless remained on the highly classified system. (Page 55-56, 121-123)
  • President Zelensky raised the fact that U.S. assistance to Ukraine was frozen during a meeting with Vice President Pence on September 1, 2019. (Page 231-232)
  • After the Vice President’s meeting, Ambassador Sondland told Ukrainian official Andriy Yermak that “what could help them move the aid was if the prosecutor general would go to the mike and announce that he was opening the Burisma investigation.” (Page 134, 155-156, 182)
  • Mr. Morrison immediately contacted Ambassador Bolton, Ambassador Taylor, and NSC lawyers to inform them about the conversation between Ambassador Sondland and Mr. Yermak. (Page 137, 182)
  • Mr. Morrison was “not comfortable with any idea that President Zelensky should allow himself to be involved in our politics.” (Page 154-155)
  • President Trump told Ambassador Sondland that “President Zelensky must announce the opening of the investigations,” adding that “there was no quid pro quo, but President Zelensky had to do it and he should want to do it.” (Page 185, 190-191, 228-229)
  • Mr. Morrison had a “sinking feeling” because President Zelensky was being asked to “involve himself in our politics.” (Page 145, 185-186)
  • Mr. Morrison reported the September 7, 2019, conversation with Ambassador Sondland to Ambassador Bolton and NSC attorneys. (Page 269-270)
  • On or around July 15, 2019, Deputy National Security Advisor Charlie Kupperman stated that “the chief of staff’s office had informed OMB that it was the President’s direction to hold the assistance.” (Page 161-162)
  • OMB representatives confirmed on July 23, 2019, that “the hold had been imposed by the Chief of Staff’s office, and they had been informed it was that the direction of the President.” (Page 162-163)
  • At a Deputies’ Meeting on July 26, 2019, agency representatives “endorsed that the principals meet and recommend to the President the prompt disbursement of the funding,” but the principals never met. (Page 164, 165)
  • Ambassador Bolton had a “one-on-one meeting” with President Trump on late August 2019, “related to Ukraine security assistance,” but the “President was not yet ready to approve the release of the assistance.” (Page 266-268)
  • It was “the unanimous position of the entire interagency” and of the principals in the interagency process that the aid should be disbursed to Ukraine. (Page 264)
  • On September 11, 2019, President Trump, Vice President Pence, Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, and Senator Rob Portman had a meeting to discuss lifting the freeze on Ukraine aid, but neither Ambassador Bolton nor Secretary of State Pompeo participated. (Page 242, 243)

Sondland may very well invoke the 5th during his open testimony this week. These transcripts are only adding more detail and contrast to the litany of crimes and treasonous behavior being executed by the executive.

Fire Tom Herman. Fire Tim Beck. Fire To__ Orlan_o. Fire Donald Trump.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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13 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

oh, about that "Transcript" Trump keeps telling us read:

 

With his abundant stupid lies, Trump has boxed himself in more tightly than a russian nested doll.

He has, but unfortunately his babushkas (picture Barr, McConnell, and Graham with kerchiefs tied under their chins if you like) are protecting him.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89732

Posted
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Holy shit, you need to follow her feed from today.   A shit-ton of stuff came out.  

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBuchman_CNS

All kinds of stuff with Pence, and the Sondland stuff is not looking good for him - he’s probably regretting his donation to Trump pretty hard now.   

https://www.courthousenews.com/transcripts-contradict-sondlands-testimony-in-pushing-ukraine/

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89732

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23 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Sondland may very well invoke the 5th during his open testimony this week. These transcripts are only adding more detail and contrast to the litany of crimes and treasonous behavior being executed by the executive.

They can still nail his ass for perjury, and the 5th won’t protect him, but the Surly lawyers can explain that better  

Or maybe they will allow him to “refresh” his testimony and come clean, in exchange for having a little chat.  

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29192

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

but i would guess trump barely knows him or doesn't know him at all.

see, in order to be credible, you have to know trump, trump has to know you, you have to both like each other very much, and then you also have to say very positive things, in public, about dear leader.  then your words actually count.

everything else is hearsay.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11340

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The bit from the Morrison transcript posted by  @Captainant (thank you for your summaries!) wherein he says Sondland is urging the announcement into the mic? How on earth are Elsie and Gym going to spin that? It was karaoke time?

No need to spin anything.

It doesn't matter that Trump broke the law.  The REAL problem is these totally illegal, and unconstitutional impeachment process rules that were written by... checks notes...the GOP when they thought Hillary would win the election.

Edited by DixonHur
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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32395

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But her emails.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sondland-discussed-sensitive-matters-with-trump-on-phone-from-kyiv-restaurant-as-waiters-circled/2019/11/16/9c651cbc-08b3-11ea-b388-434b5c1d7dd8_story.html

 

 

 

Quote

Sondland was also texting back and forth on WhatsApp with Yermak throughout the trip, and had been communicating with other Ukrainian officials over the messaging app in the preceding and subsequent months, according to people familiar with his interactions.

Most of those messages haven’t been made public or handed over to the House impeachment inquiry. The messages by Sondland that have been released are those in which he was communicating in a three-way conversation with Yermak and former Ukraine special envoy Kurt Volker. Volker, who stepped down from the post after a whistleblower complaint from a CIA analyst triggered the impeachment probe, turned those communications over to the committees leading the inquiry.

 

Quote

The chairmen of the House Foreign Affairs, Intelligence and Oversight committees subpoenaed communications and documents from Sondland as the inquiry got underway, and Sondland turned over communications from his personal devices to the State Department. But according to a statement by the committee chairmen in October, the State Department withheld them from the impeachment inquiry, defying a subpoena the committees issued to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13515

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in terms of officials refusing to testify, the democrats are going to have to take them to court to compel them. While I agree a president and his staff should have limited exec priv, it can’t be a higher power than congress impeaching a president.

if exec priv creates that power, the a president could do anything as long as he only speaks with his loyal staff. If not just with one loyal person.

can a question about exec privilege and impeachment go directly to the SCOTUS for a quick response? Or is losing that battle too much of a risk for the Dems?

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89732

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Will this matter, or would it have been just as effective to pile up the $300K in a parking lot and set it on fire?

It’s got to make Stefanik nervous, and may even make the GOP spend money there it doesn’t necessarily have.  Stefanik hasn’t exactly made herself look good.   

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13515

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It’s got to make Stefanik nervous, and may even make the GOP spend money there it doesn’t necessarily have.  Stefanik hasn’t exactly made herself look good.   

She’s getting tweets from trump so her campaign has completely shifted to where her main issue is trump. Bold move to tie your career to a president facing impeachment and a tough re-election in a year.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

in terms of officials refusing to testify, the democrats are going to have to take them to court to compel them. While I agree a president and his staff should have limited exec priv, it can’t be a higher power than congress impeaching a president.

if exec priv creates that power, the a president could do anything as long as he only speaks with his loyal staff. If not just with one loyal person.

can a question about exec privilege and impeachment go directly to the SCOTUS for a quick response? Or is losing that battle too much of a risk for the Dems?

 

The faster-track case being decided in the courts right now re the Don McGahn (former WH counsel) claim of "absolute immunity" will have a cascade effect on all the other potential House witnesses refusing.  If the courts rule against he hokey absolute immunity claim, McGahn will be compelled to testify.  I suppose daily fines or jail time could follow.  So in other words, it's not necessarily going to be a war of attrition with every witness.  Once McGahn's case is resolved, the rest should follow in short order.

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