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Moral Witness Wednesday - Trump is a coward

Brisketexan

By Brisketexan
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105161

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So, a large gathering of faith leaders from around the nation is participating in Moral Witness Wednesday -- they are marching to the White House (led in part by Reverend Barber of the "Repairing the Breach" movement, you'll recognize him from the peaceful presence at Charlottesville) to share the following message:

Quote

“Go to the royal palace and deliver this Message. Say, ‘Listen to what God says, O King of Judah, you who sit on David’s throne—you and your officials and all the people who go in and out of these palace gates.

This is God’s Message: Attend to matters of justice. Set things right between people. Rescue victims from their exploiters. Don’t take advantage of the homeless, the foreigners, the orphans, the widows. Stop the murdering!

If you obey these commands, then kings who follow in the line of David will continue to go in and out of these palace gates mounted on horses and riding in chariots—they and their officials and the citizens of Judah. But if you don’t obey these commands, then I swear—God’s Decree!—this palace will end up a heap of rubble.” -Jeremiah 22:1-5

But....as they arrived, Trump had the Secret Service shut down the park.  Can't have any dissenting voices of faith heard.  Presidential skin is too thin.

They're trying to figure out how this shakes out now.  Mayor Pete is there as well (I saw him on the feed).  My wife is there, marching with Reverend Barber, her last message to me was calm, but they're trying to figure out the orderly way to share their message.

Just thought y'all might want to know that our DOTUS is afraid of hearing a few thousand peaceful pastors speak the word so that he could hear.  

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6170

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Surprise, surprise he's a damn coward. If Jesus himself walked up to him he'd have ICE have him deported because we all know he thinks the Lord is a fair-skinned man and not the dark-skinned man he actually was who had matted hair and probably not the best hygiene as well. 

Good on your wife for participating in this though. I would like to participate in stuff like this. Dotard needs to be called to the carpet every single waking moment that he has.

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19425

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5 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I have a real problem with authority.  And yet there are a few people in this world who I refuse to fuck with.  

Brisket's wife is one of those people.  She scares me a little.

I don't fear for my physical well being, but I feel like she could insult me in a way I would know I'd been insulted but wouldn't understand the insult. 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52529

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Not sure how to phrase this in a constructive way instead of looking like a troll, so neg if you must but don’t expect much engagement from me...

when the religious right does something that is informed by their faith, the left leaps to their soapboxes to finger wag and gnash teeth and get your religion out of here, or even make fun of believers for their faith. 

But when the religious left gets political, there’s no such fervor. 

I get that there’s nuance involved, but if the argument is that religion shouldn’t have a role in lobbying or policy making, then you should feel that way whether you agree with the policy or not. 

That was very poorly articulated, but maybe my point was made. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Not sure how to phrase this in a constructive way instead of looking like a troll, so neg if you must but don’t expect much engagement from me...

when the religious right does something that is informed by their faith, the left leaps to their soapboxes to finger wag and gnash teeth and get your religion out of here, or even make fun of believers for their faith. 

But when the religious left gets political, there’s no such fervor. 

I get that there’s nuance involved, but if the argument is that religion shouldn’t have a role in lobbying or policy making, then you should feel that way whether you agree with the policy or not. 

That was very poorly articulated, but maybe my point was made. 

Just a little nuance. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45692

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Not sure how to phrase this in a constructive way instead of looking like a troll, so neg if you must but don’t expect much engagement from me...

when the religious right does something that is informed by their faith, the left leaps to their soapboxes to finger wag and gnash teeth and get your religion out of here, or even make fun of believers for their faith. 

But when the religious left gets political, there’s no such fervor. 

I get that there’s nuance involved, but if the argument is that religion shouldn’t have a role in lobbying or policy making, then you should feel that way whether you agree with the policy or not. 

That was very poorly articulated, but maybe my point was made. 

I would say religion should have no say in anything, in any way, for whatever reason.  Nuance be damned.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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I applaud her (and their enthusiasm). I hope it leads to constructive leadership in the communities where these religious leaders work. The group's moral agenda is kind and compelling:

"Insuring economic democracy requires a comprehensive public policy approach. This includes fighting for employment, living wages, the alleviation of disparate unemployment, a green economy, labor rights, affordable housing, targeted empowerment zones, direct cash transfers and other support for all families struggling to get by, fair policies for immigrants, critiquing war policies that further disable our ability to have a real war on poverty, infrastructure development and fair tax reform. All elected officials should support a comprehensive approach to economic democracy." https://www.breachrepairers.org/moralagenda

Good to see religious leaders in alignment with Bernie and Tulsi's ideas for the nation. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31507

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12 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

his favorite book is the bible, and that's enough for me.

The cover is handsome, and the gilt edged pages are real nice.

It's much nicer than regular books.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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texastough

texastough 1129

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Not sure how to phrase this in a constructive way instead of looking like a troll, so neg if you must but don’t expect much engagement from me..

I think in this case, religion is simply irrelevant (regardless of your views on religion). The point is, American citizens were peacefully demonstrating against Trump and the pussy sent his minions to shut them down.

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F250

F250 28787

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

when the religious right does something that is informed by their faith, the left leaps to their soapboxes to finger wag and gnash teeth and get your religion out of here, or even make fun of believers for their faith.  

The criticism is usually related to the hypocrisy of their faith rather than actions that are informed by their faith.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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It's also that the religious right typically seeks to impose their religious beliefs on others---bathroom bills, abortion laws, ban on gay marriage, "religious freedom" meaning only for white Christians, the War on Christmas.  And I'm not Christian and am loathe to comment on another's religion, but these seem to be a type of fake Christianity.  Ignoring the "do unto others," and welcoming the stranger, while using religion as an excuse to be a bigot.

The religious left is not typically seeking to impose their religious beliefs on others.  They're commenting on things like the importance of welcoming the stranger and treating the poorest among us with dignity and not banning millions of people from the U.S. because of their religion.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

It's also that the religious right typically seeks to impose their religious beliefs on others---bathroom bills, abortion laws, ban on gay marriage, "religious freedom" meaning only for white Christians, the War on Christmas.  And I'm not Christian and am loathe to comment on another's religion, but these seem to be a type of fake Christianity.  Ignoring the "do unto others," and welcoming the stranger, while using religion as an excuse to be a bigot.

The religious left is not typically seeking to impose their religious beliefs on others.  They're commenting on things like the importance of welcoming the stranger and treating the poorest among us with dignity and not banning millions of people from the U.S. because of their religion.

Some Environmental and PETA horseshit laws say otherwise.

 

Aside from that glaring inaccuracy, your post is dead on.

Edited by slorch
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texastough

texastough 1129

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30 minutes ago, slorch said:

Some Environmental and PETA horseshit laws say otherwise.

 

Aside from that glaring inaccuracy, your post is dead on.

I know you're known for trolling this board, so I hesitate to respond. But, how on earth are environmental and gun control/wildlife protection laws (or whatever you mean by PETA laws) connected with the religious left? Left yes -- but religion? Lemonlime's post was spot on

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42 minutes ago, texastough said:

I know you're known for trolling this board, so I hesitate to respond. But, how on earth are environmental and gun control/wildlife protection laws (or whatever you mean by PETA laws) connected with the religious left? Left yes -- but religion? Lemonlime's post was spot on

Not trolling at all, so stop with the accusations. If disrupting the leftist echo chamber is trolling, then count me guilty.

 

Much of environmentalism is as ‘founded in fact’ as any other religion, unless you subscribe to the expected outcome studies thrown out there as fact.  Isn’t NYC supposed to be underwater by now?  Lolz.

  And those PETA folks saving pigs in Texas.... because it sounds so bad to have a bacon bash  for conservation efforts.

 

I don’t care what people want to believe.  Just don’t legislate from it and force it upon me.  In that vein of thought, I am absolutely aligned with Lemonlime.  If you are a ‘ their side is bad, but my side is pristine’ kind of poster, then we’ll likely disagree on a lot.

Edited by slorch
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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26495

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There’s nothing leftist about environmental regulations. The externalized environmental cost of commercial transactions must be captured for price discovery to occur. If you socialize those costs, it’s a subsidy. In other words the “means of production” are in part being provided by the public or other private parties.
That’s not capitalism.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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3 minutes ago, slorch said:

Not trolling at all, so stop with the accusations.

 

Much of environmentalism is as ‘founded in fact’ as any other religion, unless you subscribe to the expected outcome studies thrown out there as fact.  Isn’t NYC supposed to be underwater by now?  Lolz.

  And those PETA folks saving pigs in Texas.... because it sounds so bad to have a bacon bash  for conservation efforts.

 

I don’t care what people want to believe.  Just don’t legislate from it and force it upon me.  In that vein of thought, I am absolutely aligned with Lemonlime.  If you are a ‘ their side is bad, but my side is pristine’ kind of poster, then we’ll likely disagree on a lot.

Where is a single example of the religious left getting involved with PETA?    The left yes.  The religious left, well, you're just making shit up.

Which seems to be the hallmark of both trumpism and the religious right.

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4 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Where is a single example of the religious left getting involved with PETA?    The left yes.  The religious left, well, you're just making shit up.

Which seems to be the hallmark of both trumpism and the religious right.

The point is that the left has their ‘make believe’ bullshit that they force on others too. It is not limited to the ‘ religious right.’

I am with you on the disdain for legislating religious beliefs.  I have posted many times against ‘sin legislation’ related to gambling, drinking, and even whoring- as a few examples.  IMHO, that is not the job of the government, damned sure not at the federal level..

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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10 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Anyone know what @slorch is talking about?

He's mixing up how people live their lives with their religious activism.  My left leaning congregation may get involved in things like beach clean ups, or make a point to not be wasteful, use biodegradable products, etc.  and there may be some members who even belong to PETA or are vegetarians for environmental and/or animal rights reasons.  But the congregation as a whole or religious leaders are not lobbying congress for PETA laws, whatever the fuck that even means, or environmental regulations.  What they are involved in, from a "political" perspective, and to be clear I consider this to be basic morality having little to do with politics, it's just that our government is doing horrible things in our name, is more along the lines of vigils or speaking with local politicians about ending kiddy concentration camps, or you know the things we believe we're supposed to be doing because of our religion including welcoming the stranger.

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15 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

There’s nothing leftist about environmental regulations. The externalized environmental cost of commercial transactions must be captured for price discovery to occur. If you socialize those costs, it’s a subsidy. In other words the “means of production” are in part being provided by the public or other private parties.
That’s not capitalism.

Conservation is not leftist.  In that we agree.

 

The extremism regarding environmentalism tends to be hard core leftist.

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2 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

He's mixing up how people live their lives with their religious activism.  My left leaning congregation may get involved in things like beach clean ups, or make a point to not be wasteful, use biodegradable products, etc.  and there may be some members who even belong to PETA or are vegetarians for environmental and/or animal rights reasons.  But the congregation as a whole or religious leaders are not lobbying congress for PETA laws, whatever the fuck that even means, or environmental regulations.  What they are involved in, from a "political" perspective, and to be clear I consider this to be basic morality having little to do with politics, it's just that our government is doing horrible things in our name, is more along the lines of vigils or speaking with local politicians about ending kiddy concentration camps, or you know the things we believe we're supposed to be doing because of our religion including welcoming the stranger.

You are convoluting environmentalism and PETA with your faith.  That is not what I said.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31507

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The idea that the religious "legislate morality" or  "legislate their beliefs" is pretty specious.  All legislation embodies some type of morality or value system and presumably the beliefs of the legislators that support it.

Granted, certain religious "affiliations" are more likely to be vocal about the source of their beliefs and the alleged moral superiority of them and the legislation inspired by them, but that is a difference in degree, not in kind.

It's obnoxious, in many cases hypocritical,  not inclusive, and often adds an unnecessary layer to the debate, but to act like it's grossly different from what other interest groups do is disingenuous.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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