Moral Witness Wednesday - Trump is a coward

['stache 21772]

43 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Anyone know what @slorch is talking about?

"Libtards are bad." That's literally it.

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

I don't fear for my physical well being, but I feel like she could insult me in a way I would know I'd been insulted but wouldn't understand the insult. 

she’s a peach!

[Brisketexan 104598]

Here's an article on the event: https://religionnews.com/2019/06/12/boisterous-faith-leaders-and-a-silent-pete-buttigieg-rally-against-trump-at-white-house/?fbclid=IwAR1KG5BsrBwN8ZmCPyBG9DCJ0fEyFc6daxb3BbgDTns8HuGgR6IxGKvVS_w

Quote

The Rev. Traci Blackmon, a Ferguson, Mo., pastor who protested against white supremacists in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017, discussed health care, gerrymandering and racism in her short speech, saying “America is not well” and that “we will be judged by how we have cared for the sick, how we fed the hungry, how we have sheltered the homeless, how we have welcomed the stranger.”

She later explained to RNS that she felt compelled to participate in the protest because “people of faith who are committed to the gospel” and other religious traditions have been “relegated to the left because we’ve been too quiet.”

She added, “We’ve never been a perfect nation … but we’re headed towards fascism and it is my role as a priest and a prophet to sound the alarm.”

I saw that Mayor Pete was there with them.  Interestingly, he did not step up to the microphone, use the opportunity as a pulpit, etc.  He was just a supportive presence there.  I thought that was pretty impressive.

And as my wife messaged me yesterday, "we are not the left or right -- we are the moral center."  Or, at least, that's where they're trying to stand.

I think this movement is born out of the fact that like it or not, faith isn't just present in the public square -- it arguably DOMINATES it today.  Evangelical "Christianity" is the de facto governing movement of our country.  As. Rev. Blackmon noted, the only sane reaction to that is "if they are going to be such a loud voice in the name of God and faith....shouldn't there be a counter-voice?"  And further, shouldn't that counter-voice be one that's focused on Torah, and the gospels, etc.?

Those of you who want faith out of politics, 1) it can never be extricated completely (nor should it -- if you are a person of faith, we should expect your faith to inform your beliefs and actions), and 2) good luck with getting the evangelical "Christian" movement to sit down and be quiet.  Knowing that faith is and will remain a dominant voice in our political square, then shouldn't we ensure that not only of those voices - which happens to be a loud and cruel voice - is heard?

"Faith" was cruelly and shamelessly used to justify slavery.  But faith also informed and fueled the abolitionist movement.  Faith was used to justify actions of the nazi regime, but Bonhoeffer spoke out:

Quote

In April 1933, Bonhoeffer raised the first voice for church resistance to Hitler's persecution of Jews, declaring that the church must not simply "bandage the victims under the wheel, but jam the spoke in the wheel itself."

As long as men are willing to use the excuse of "faith" to inflict cruelty, then people of faith should - must - raise their voices to bear counter-witness to that.

I'm not 1/50th the theologian that my wife is.  But even I get that.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Brisketexan

[hpslugga 4044]

40 minutes ago, slorch said:

The point is that the left has their ‘make believe’ bullshit that they force on others too.

Such as?

[Brisketexan 104598]

7 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Such as?

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

And this leftist commie libtard claptrap, which was one of the messages delivered to the White House yesterday:

Quote

“Go to the royal palace and deliver this Message. Say, ‘Listen to what God says, O King of Judah, you who sit on David’s throne—you and your officials and all the people who go in and out of these palace gates.

This is God’s Message: Attend to matters of justice. Set things right between people. Rescue victims from their exploiters. Don’t take advantage of the homeless, the foreigners, the orphans, the widows. Stop the murdering!

If you obey these commands, then kings who follow in the line of David will continue to go in and out of these palace gates mounted on horses and riding in chariots—they and their officials and the citizens of Judah. But if you don’t obey these commands, then I swear—God’s Decree!—this palace will end up a heap of rubble.” -Jeremiah 22:1-5

Our leadership loves to shout loud and proud how we are a Christian nation.  They'd puke their guts out if we actually lived what they say we are.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Brisketexan

[TwiceHorn 31269]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Here's an article on the event: https://religionnews.com/2019/06/12/boisterous-faith-leaders-and-a-silent-pete-buttigieg-rally-against-trump-at-white-house/?fbclid=IwAR1KG5BsrBwN8ZmCPyBG9DCJ0fEyFc6daxb3BbgDTns8HuGgR6IxGKvVS_w

I saw that Mayor Pete was there with them.  Interestingly, he did not step up to the microphone, use the opportunity as a pulpit, etc.  He was just a supportive presence there.  I thought that was pretty impressive.

And as my wife messaged me yesterday, "we are not the left or right -- we are the moral center."  Or, at least, that's where they're trying to stand.

I think this movement is born out of the fact that like it or not, faith isn't just present in the public square -- it arguably DOMINATES it today.  Evangelical "Christianity" is the de facto governing movement of our country.  As. Rev. Blackmon noted, the only sane reaction to that is "if they are going to be such a loud voice in the name of God and faith....shouldn't there be a counter-voice?"  And further, shouldn't that counter-voice be one that's focused on Torah, and the gospels, etc.?

Those of you who want faith out of politics, 1) it can never be extricated completely (nor should it -- if you are a person of faith, we should expect your faith to inform your beliefs and actions), and 2) good luck with getting the evangelical "Christian" movement to sit down and be quiet.  Knowing that faith is and will remain a dominant voice in our political square, then shouldn't we ensure that not only of those voices - which happens to be a loud and cruel voice - is heard?

"Faith" was cruelly and shamelessly used to justify slavery.  But faith also informed and fueled the abolitionist movement.  Faith was used to justify actions of the nazi regime, but Bonhoeffer spoke out:

As long as men are willing to use the excuse of "faith" to inflict cruelty, then people of faith should - must - raise their voices to bear counter-witness to that.

I'm not 1/50th the theologian that my wife is.  But even I get that.

Good post.  I suppose there were some Christians that perverted their faith to support Nazism and/or the final solution, and there was some detent between the Catholic church and the Nazi regime that had some very unholy aspects, but overall, the Nazis were pretty pagan.  That's a faith, too, I suppose.

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Anyone know what @slorch is talking about?

It seems like he's saying that religion, which is based almost entirely on faith, is the same thing as science, which is based on evidence.  Leftists argue that religion shouldn't be the reason why laws are passed, so science also shouldn't be a reason why laws are passed or leftists are being hypocrites.  That's the best I can do.  Regardless, he's a moron.  

[Brisketexan 104598]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Good post.  I suppose there were some Christians that perverted their faith to support Nazism and/or the final solution, and there was some detent between the Catholic church and the Nazi regime that had some very unholy aspects, but overall, the Nazis were pretty pagan.  That's a faith, too, I suppose.

The nazis thoroughly co-opted the church in Germany.  The institutions of faith went all-in on Nazi-ism.

Quote

In November 1932, two months before the Nazi takeover, there had been an election for presbyters and synodals (church officials) of the German Landeskirche (Protestant established churches). This election was marked by a struggle within the Old-Prussian Union Evangelical Church between the nationalistic German Christian (Deutsche Christen) movement and Young Reformers—a struggle which threatened to explode into schism. In July 1933, Hitler unconstitutionally imposed new church elections. Bonhoeffer put all his efforts into the election, campaigning for the selection of independent, non-Nazi officials.

Despite Bonhoeffer's efforts, in the rigged July election an overwhelming number of key church positions went to Nazi-supported Deutsche Christen people.[14] The Deutsche Christen won a majority in the general synod of the Old-Prussian Union Evangelical Church and all its provincial synods except Westphalia, and in synods of all other Protestant church bodies, except for the Lutheran churches of Bavaria, Hanover, and Württemberg. 

.......

In September 1933, the national church synod at Wittenberg voluntarily passed a resolution to apply the Aryan paragraph within the church, meaning that pastors and church officials of Jewish descent were to be removed from their posts.

 

And that's just the stuff mentioned in Bonhoeffer's wiki page.  The church in Germany did EXACTLY what the evangelical "Christian" movement is doing here.  I mean, EXACTLY.  Full-on idolatry and fealty to a regime, adopting the rhetoric and aims of the regime as the aims of the church (instead of vice-versa), etc.

We have a metric fuckton of Falwells.

We need more Bonhoeffers.

[Huckleberry 32699]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The nazis thoroughly co-opted the church in Germany.  The institutions of faith went all-in on Nazi-ism.

And that's just the stuff mentioned in Bonhoeffer's wiki page.  The church in Germany did EXACTLY what the evangelical "Christian" movement is doing here.  I mean, EXACTLY.  Full-on idolatry and fealty to a regime, adopting the rhetoric and aims of the regime as the aims of the church (instead of vice-versa), etc.

We have a metric fuckton of Falwells.

We need more Bonhoeffers.

There are unfortunately a large number of people in every religion whose true core belief actually comes down to "we're better than the others." That also applies to the irreligious, for the record. It's human nature. Us versus them. And when people in positions of political power give relevance to those thoughts it can accelerate quickly.

[Brisketexan 104598]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

There are unfortunately a large number of people in every religion whose true core belief actually comes down to "we're better than the others." That also applies to the irreligious, for the record. It's human nature. Us versus them. And when people in positions of political power give relevance to those thoughts it can accelerate quickly.

This.  Anne Lamott captured it perfectly: "You can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

[lemonlime 5503]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

The idea that the religious "legislate morality" or  "legislate their beliefs" is pretty specious.  All legislation embodies some type of morality or value system and presumably the beliefs of the legislators that support it.

 

This.  I don't know how to separate out my faith from my "politics."  I don't think they're separable, nor should they necessarily be.  

But, first, to the extent people use religion to try to impose their religious beliefs on others that's wrong in general.  That's different from religion informing their morality.  I believe we have an obligation to care for the weakest among us.  I don't know how to separate that moral belief from my religion.  They're intertwined.  

The problem is the so called "religious right," is not religious, it's only right wing and greedy--or at least it's most vocal voices are.  

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

47 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Such as?

He's referring to science. He thinks science is make believe. 

[hpslugga 4044]

28 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

He's referring to science. He thinks science is make believe. 

Ah yes, the very dishonest false equivalency between religion and science. That’s one of the wannabelievers’ favorites 

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

The way you take faith out is ignore the why and address the what. 

If someone or some group says, for example, we are against abortion because Jesus yada yada, address the “against abortion” and ignore the “Jesus yada yada”.

when people feel a moral imperative to believe something, you will not be changing their mind. 

As to the topic of this thread, if pastors are marching because they want to speak out against trump, ignore the religious component and decide if there is merit to what they are speaking out against. There is. And then decide how you feel about trump’s reaction. It’s childish. 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

You really could change the thread title to Republicans are cowards and it would be just as accurate.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33842]

Life has been sweet since I muted Slorch. You guys should try it.

[Lagunamadre 1975]

"Jesus wrote me a letter OK. Here it is. Out of respect for him I'm not going to show it to you yet, but maybe at some point later I will, who knows. Soo Jesus said I was right and the christian protesters are wrong, OK. Soo fake news everybody. Fake news. I'm supposed to meet with the father and the holy spirit soon, great guys, we have a special relationship. They like me. OK. And they will never tell you this, and I shouldn't say this, but they tell me those protesters are wrong and honestly just losers. And Fake. OK. Don't tell them I told y'all that." 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, hpslugga said:

Such as?

Almost trivial, but it’s not- smog check on car inspections...but only in certain counties.

 

Either they all pollute or none of em do... except in California, where do you need a completely different emission system. 

 

love it when you act coy.. Let’s bury our heads in the sand and just blame Christians... lolz.  

 

Selective hate is selective as hell.  I’m just saying take it all out. Legislate objectively, stop chasing cow farts and bullshit like that  

Edited June 13, 2019 by slorch

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

26 minutes ago, slorch said:

Almost trivial, but it’s not- smog check on car inspections...but only in certain counties.

 

Either they all pollute or none of em do... except in California, where do you need a completely different emission system. 

 

love it when you act coy.. Let’s bury our heads in the sand and just blame Christians... lolz.  

 

Selective hate is selective as hell.  I’m just saying take it all out. Legislate objectively, stop chasing cow farts and bullshit like that  

Legislative objectively but ignore science.  More Republican logic.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

13 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Where's his merry band of idiots to defend him?  They're probably complaining about Bill Clinton in some other thread.  In case they poke their head in here, FUCK ALL OF YOU. 

Are we forgetting that obama, unlike trump, was a Muslim and hated the Bible?

Because I think we are. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

Legislative objectively but ignore science.  More Republican logic.  

If it’s fact, then move on it.

 

Manmade global warming is not proven.

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

If it’s fact, then move on it.

 

Manmade global warming is not proven.

It really is a brilliant phenomenon when a dumb person doesn't know that they are dumb so they keep broadcasting their dumb for the world to see.  

[hpslugga 4044]

56 minutes ago, slorch said:

Almost trivial, but it’s not- smog check on car inspections...but only in certain counties.

And that's make-believe in what way?

Quote

Either they all pollute or none of em do... except in California, where do you need a completely different emission system. 

Again, you stated "The point is that the left has their ‘make believe’ bullshit that they force on others too." How does this qualify as make-believe in a way that's any way near on par with religion?

Quote

love it when you act coy.. Let’s bury our heads in the sand and just blame Christians... lolz.  

This has nothing to do with me acting coy, burying my head in any sand, or me blaming Christians.

This has to do with you pretending not to know things that you know. You know full well that you're deliberately conflating religion with "make-believe bullshit" and you're deliberately trying to confuse the issue by changing the subject. "Make-Believe" encompasses a very broad variety of topics, and religion happens to be just one of them. It's also, however, the very biggest one. So when you try to compare conceptions about the environment, right or wrong, understand that those claims that you decry have something in common: they are testable and potentially falsifiable. Religions and all of their assertions, on the other hand, are neither. 

So yes, you are deliberately manufacturing a false equivalence between science and religion. You even referred to such matters as one of "faith," which is a spectacular and unforgivable lie, and you knew that before saying it all the same. Faith is a belief that is held in the absence of evidence and can be argued in spite of it. If you could, via a peer reviewed scientific analysis prove to the PETA people, for example, that claim X or claim Y is demonstrably incorrect, the bulk of them would change their minds about it and only the most severe barking lunatics would hold onto their beliefs even tighter. The thing is, said barking lunatics constitute a very small fraction of the environmental movement as a whole. PETA, as an organization, does not have anything remotely close to a morally reprehensible sentence that reads "By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record" in its mission statement as groups such as Answers in Genesis infamously do in their detestable statements of faith.

Literally every word in that quoted passage you said is absolutely wrong in every way that it could be wrong, and you're not going to talk your way out of that.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by hpslugga

[hpslugga 4044]

12 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

It really is a brilliant phenomenon when a dumb person doesn't know that they are dumb so they keep broadcasting their dumb for the world to see.  

Dunning and Kruger would have a fantastic time reading this board.

[TwiceHorn 31269]

58 minutes ago, slorch said:

Almost trivial, but it’s not- smog check on car inspections...but only in certain counties.

 

Either they all pollute or none of em do... except in California, where do you need a completely different emission system. 

 

love it when you act coy.. Let’s bury our heads in the sand and just blame Christians... lolz.  

 

Selective hate is selective as hell.  I’m just saying take it all out. Legislate objectively, stop chasing cow farts and bullshit like that  

Really bad example.  Emissions testing occurs in populous counties where smog is a problem and not in less populous counties where it isn't.  Don't burden those where the problem isn't really a problem.  Smart if you ask me.  Least intrusive way to address problems where they exist. 

California can do what it wants.  Don't like it,. move.  Better Cali does it for Cali than DC for all of us.

You have a remarkable ability to (over)simplify.  Sometimes, though, it's just simplistic.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

What slorch thinks about himself

 

How the rest of the world sees slorch

[DigglerontheHoof 21061]

3 hours ago, hpslugga said:

And that's make-believe in what way?

Again, you stated "The point is that the left has their ‘make believe’ bullshit that they force on others too." How does this qualify as make-believe in a way that's any way near on par with religion?

This has nothing to do with me acting coy, burying my head in any sand, or me blaming Christians.

This has to do with you pretending not to know things that you know. You know full well that you're deliberately conflating religion with "make-believe bullshit" and you're deliberately trying to confuse the issue by changing the subject. "Make-Believe" encompasses a very broad variety of topics, and religion happens to be just one of them. It's also, however, the very biggest one. So when you try to compare conceptions about the environment, right or wrong, understand that those claims that you decry have something in common: they are testable and potentially falsifiable. Religions and all of their assertions, on the other hand, are neither. 

So yes, you are deliberately manufacturing a false equivalence between science and religion. You even referred to such matters as one of "faith," which is a spectacular and unforgivable lie, and you knew that before saying it all the same. Faith is a belief that is held in the absence of evidence and can be argued in spite of it. If you could, via a peer reviewed scientific analysis prove to the PETA people, for example, that claim X or claim Y is demonstrably incorrect, the bulk of them would change their minds about it and only the most severe barking lunatics would hold onto their beliefs even tighter. The thing is, said barking lunatics constitute a very small fraction of the environmental movement as a whole. PETA, as an organization, does not have anything remotely close to a morally reprehensible sentence that reads "By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record" in its mission statement as groups such as Answers in Genesis infamously do in their detestable statements of faith.

Literally every word in that quoted passage you said is absolutely wrong in every way that it could be wrong, and you're not going to talk your way out of that.

 

This is a CR beat-down, right here.

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

If it’s fact, then move on it.
 
Manmade global warming is not proven.

Actually it is as proven as the relationship between HIV and AIDS. Don’t be a sucker.

[conVINCEd 21468]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Actually it is as proven as the relationship between HIV and AIDS. Don’t be a sucker.

<<slorch>>You mean god’s plan to get rid of all the fags?<<slorch>>

[F250 28682]

42 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

<<slorch>>You mean god’s plan to get rid of all the fags?<<slorch>>

Now I have A.I.D.S. by MOD playing in my head.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

I have “Lapdance” by N.E.R.D. playing on my stereo.