Elizabeth Warren 2020

[Guest Lobo]

Senator Warren, we called the restaurant for a reser......

a what?

we’ve called ahead to make the appropriate arrangements for a table.   

 

Senator Warren, you can’t go back on your promise to co-sponsor that bill.  You’ll be called an Ind...

a what?

well it’s bad form, parliamentarily speaking. 

 

And the something about a Chinese postman.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Do you know that Native Americans get many breaks when applying for various positions in OK/TX?  I'm pretty sure I don't know of any breaks Germans catch, if so, please do educate me. 

If I was led to believe I was part Native American my entire life, I’d claim it and be proud of it.  

[Hank Kingsley 20923]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I'm having a hard time thinking of a less relevant "controversy" with regard to presidential suitability.

I agree with you. She should have let the issue die and not make a public statement about her DNA results after being goaded by Trump. 

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

7 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Do you know that Native Americans get many breaks when applying for various positions in OK/TX?

Is that relevant to Elizabeth Warren?

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I agree with you. She should have let the issue die and not make a public statement about her DNA results after being goaded by Trump.

She is literally incapable of deciding whether this non-issue lives or dies. That's not up to her.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’ve been led to believe I’m of German decent.  I’ve never taken a DNA test. Is it unreasonable of me to claim German heritage when asked? 

Is including German descent going to possibly get you preferential treatment ??  Stop being obtuse.  Being proud you had NA ancestry that might make you .002% NA is a far cry form calling yourself NA when it has implications on hiring, and dollars, and you're filling out applications.    It's kinda lame you're even making that argument.

I've got NA DNA somewhere back in my family. The wife has it more than I do, she's 99.99% caucasian just like me, and probably like you and exactly like Mrs. Warren.

We have a family friend who is Pamunkey Indian. She attended HS with our daughter, and I've seen first hand what it means for NA folks, and what filling out forms asking for your race means.  She lives/lived the life. Mrs. Warren lives in where Conneticcut ? or some other northeastern enclve of whiteness.

[hayden_horn 11362]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

I agree with you. She should have let the issue die and not make a public statement about her DNA results after being goaded by Trump. 

 

this was her biggest mistake. at the time, she thought that would simply put things right. what she forgot is that there are still people to this day who think that obama is a kenyan born founder of isis.

besides that, the test didn't come back with 20% native. it came back with somewhere between  less than .001% and 1.5%. 

you don't come out crowing about that. shit, most americans have some % or other of native american blood. my uncle jerry used to tell us very politically incorrect stories about the family and how we "had one in the woodpile." i'm allegedly 1/32 or 1/64 native, depending on who in the family you ask. i'm not going to put native american on any paperwork because i'm whiter than whitebread. 

she fucked up. when she first did claim it, and even more when it came out. just own it. why can't politicians just own shit? same thing with the governor of virginia. all she had to do was say "in my younger years, i was taken with the idea that i was part native american. it was very appealing to me, and i made some youthful mistakes in self-identification, wanting to believe the tales of my family. my dna test says i've got very little indian blood, so my family might have exaggerated a bit and so may have i. i apologize to native american people for my youthful, mistaken attempts at cultural appropriation. i have great respect for native americans, and as such i felt identifying with them a good thing."

or something. just GET AHEAD OF THE STORY.

[Hank Kingsley 20923]

It was her decision to post a short film on Twitter as some sort of victory lap over Trump. It was a terrible political move. She brought even more attention to it. 

Watching this now is slightly cringe-inducing, particularly the phone call with the geneticist.  Again, it doesn't disqualify her in my eyes. But yikes. 

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Her worst was the 'scuze me while I grab a brewski infomercial.

[Jograves 357]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It was her decision to post a short film on Twitter as some sort of victory lap over Trump. It was a terrible political move. She brought even more attention to it. 

Watching this now is slightly cringe-inducing, particularly the phone call with the geneticist.  Again, it doesn't disqualify her in my eyes. But yikes. 

 

 

I agree. This was the mistake. There was no need for it. That's not how you stand up to him.

I think she's making positive headway with this apology tour though. 

 

[hayden_horn 11362]

really, politicians should just hire me as a crisis manager. 

"oh, shit, they found out x happened. WHAT DO I DO?"

"admit that shit, apologize, give a succinct explanation as to why you thought doing that shit at the time was okay, explain why it wasn't okay, apologize again, move on. that'll be $40k out of your campaign funds, pls, thanks"

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If I was led to believe I was part Native American my entire life, I’d claim it and be proud of it.  

I don't think you know how these claims work.  I grew up in Oklahoma.  I promise you, if you were from there you wouldn't buy her bullshit.  Why do you think most NA tribes have come down hard on her?  Because they like Trump/Republicans? 

[Hank Kingsley 20923]

1 minute ago, Jograves said:

I agree. This was the mistake. There was no need for it. That's not how you stand up to him.

I think she's making positive headway with this apology tour though. 

 

Agree, but the apology tour should have happened back in October when the Cherokee Nation and other Native Americans were pissed at her. Why did she wait 3+ months?

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don't think you know how these claims work.  I grew up in Oklahoma.  I promise you, if you were from there you wouldn't buy her bullshit.  Why do you think most NA tribes have come down hard on her?  Because they like Trump/Republicans? 

There is no evidence I’m aware of she sought to gain from her heritage so your point is kind of not there.

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Is that relevant to Elizabeth Warren?

 

Of course it is.  When you apply to Harvard and you mark the Native American box, you're an underrepresented minority.  That bumps up your chances for admission.  Do you think that's relevant?  If not, please explain why. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Of course it is.  When you apply to Harvard and you mark the Native American box, you're an underrepresented minority.  That bumps up your chances for admission.  Do you think that's relevant?  If not, please explain why. 

She never went to school at Harvard 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There is no evidence I’m aware of she sought to gain from her heritage so your point is kind of not there.

See post above.

When you check that box when applying for colleges/law school, whatever...you're an underrepresented minority.  That gains you easier admission status.  Get my point? 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She never went to school at Harvard 

I used Harvard because they are very well known for helping underrepresented minorities....but almost all schools do the same thing.  And you can bet your ass she checked that box where ever she applied.  That seems pretty obvious at this point...would you agree? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

She attended a community college and went to undergrad on a debate scholarship. 

[hayden_horn 11362]

here's another real life example for me: my wife is half-hispanic. her mom is mexican, from two mexican parents, with grandma insisting she is spanish white, but they are browner than beans. now there is a portrait of her grandmother's grandmother, and she's blonde with blue eyes, so there is some truth to the story.

anyways, i'm checking the hispanic box for my kids. i'm going to do it because they are ~25% hispanic, and i think that's probably enough to qualify. however, if my kids married white people and had white babies, i don't reckon that those babies could claim to be hispanic. there comes a time where it's so watered down as to be meaningless.

Edited February 7, 2019 by hayden_horn

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She attended a community college and went to undergrad on a debate scholarship. 

LOL, you're trying REALLY hard to give her a pass.  Ok, I'm sure it never helped her.  And I'm sure she never applied anywhere and checked that box.  You're hilarious. 

Oh and didn't she go to Law School?  I bet your ass on it she checked that box then - and it may not be only reason she got it.  But underrepresented minorities will get in all other things being equal.  So there's a good chance it helped her.  Especially being that she was some sort of community college all star before law school...

Edited February 7, 2019 by ChiTownDoc

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She never went to school at Harvard 

Right, she just applied for a job there.....

[Jograves 357]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Agree, but the apology tour should have happened back in October when the Cherokee Nation and other Native Americans were pissed at her. Why did she wait 3+ months?

 

She made a mistake. It happens. She's trying to correct it now. Will it be too late? Who knows. 

She just sent out this email:

Quote

I woke up early today thinking about my speech for Saturday. My mind was chewing on the part about who government works for. About how right now our government works great for oil companies and defense contractors, great for private prisons, great for Wall Street banks and hedge funds. But it doesn’t work great for millions and millions of hard-working people. I woke up thinking again about how we change that. Thinking about all we could do. Thinking about deep, structural changes. I know there are a lot of people who think that there’s so much that’s broken, that we should just give up. Let it go. Don’t try anything. But not me.

Personally, that's what I want to hear. Like I said earlier, I'm tired of this side/that side shit or the 'we're all doomed' crowd (present company excluded). I want some ideas to make us better (MUB), and I think she has some good ones. 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

Can we get back to the fact you called this a charming story?  LOL,  I'm still laughing over here. 

[Guest Lobo]

If I made a million-hit video of my most serious mistakes in life, I’d be a kardashian.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Trump doesn’t pay taxes and that makes him smart.  Elizabeth Warren may have claimed NA heritage to advance her career.  She should clearly get the death penalty. 

I happen to believe she got where she is by hard work and fighting the good fight.  

I judge her by the enemies she’s made, not this manufactured nonsense.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump doesn’t pay taxes and that makes him smart.  Elizabeth Warren may have claimed NA heritage to advance her career.  She should clearly get the death penalty. 

I happen to believe she got where she is by hard work and fighting the good fight.  

I judge her by the enemies she’s made, not this manufactured nonsense.

You mean the nonsense she manufactured ?  C'mon man stop this is getting pathetic.

 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

7 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I find the story charming.  She really believed she was something she wasn’t because she was taught to believe it.  

It’s a good reminder these people are in fact human.

Correction: She’s an Okie.  

[atomheartbevo 89656]

7 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

She needs a big news day to pull the press off of this and move on, it seems.

She’s had dozens of big news days over the past two years, and it’s not going away.  

[Hank Kingsley 20923]

Hugo, for a guy so entertained and highly interested in politics, it's interesting to see you trying to downplay political gamesmanship. 

She came at the King. She missed. 

Hopefully she can bounce back. 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Can't pos rep this ^^^^. for some reason none to give. Are we being limited on rep we can give out now ?  I'm a gott damned tree fiddy man !!!

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

She can’t win.  Too many morons in this country buying into the bullshit fed to them by the money men.

[Hank Kingsley 20923]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She can’t win.  Too many morons in this country buying into the bullshit fed to them by the money men.

You're right and it's unfair. This is our current reality. The Democrat battle plans have to be carefully curated going up against Trumpism. 

Warren is a great person and public servant. But maybe she's not the one to lead this fight. 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump doesn’t pay taxes and that makes him smart.  Elizabeth Warren may have claimed NA heritage to advance her career.  She should clearly get the death penalty. 

I happen to believe she got where she is by hard work and fighting the good fight.  

I judge her by the enemies she’s made, not this manufactured nonsense.

Oh cool, so she's better than Trump...that's the bar? 

You spend a little bit of time around here, have you seen my position on Trump?  

[bad_teammate 13195]

Trump doesn't need to do anything with the way you supposed #Resistance fighters knife anyone to the left of Ceausescu in the back.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

But maybe she's not the one to lead this fight. 

She’s still the best option IMO.  It’s like the Nancy Pelosi thread.  People hated her because they were told to hate her.  Fuck placating the morons because they don’t like her for superficial reasons.  No appeasements or capitulation over an inconsequential character flaw. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She can’t win.  Too many morons in this country buying into the bullshit fed to them by the money men.

Do you think she would have won if this whole Indian thing wasn't there ? (I'm channelling the Diane Keaton abortion scene from The Godfather II ).

I think her stance on campaign reform alone would kill her support from the head office over at the DNC. They'd be looking for some other way to take her out. She's not good for party business if you can believe her stance on campaign finance reform.  

Her curb Wall Street power mantra would also cost her lots of important campaign dollars. And she's got the northeastern liberal persona thing. That doesn't help you with blue collar types (nobody likes the north easterners, I don't think they even like other north easterners).

[Hank Kingsley 20923]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Trump doesn't need to do anything with the way you supposed #Resistance fighters knife anyone to the left of Ceausescu in the back.

I've always said I'd vote for Warren in a heartbeat. Addressing the reality of the situation is knifing the #Resistance in the back? If she's the nominee, I will 100% support her. 

 

 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I've always said I'd vote for Warren in a heartbeat. Addressing the reality of the situation is knifing the #Resistance in the back? If she's the nominee, I will 100% support her. 

 

 

 

Of course, if Satan could come to real life and run against Trump, I'd vote for Satan.  That's just where most of us are at.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to end up with a better, more qualified opponent.  Although Satan would seem to be very qualified with who he'd be presiding over in these here United States. 

[Dbeasy 15047]

As disgusting as her behavior was in trying to profit by faking her status as an Indian, it really doesn’t disqualify her from running. There are simply too many other examples of disgusting behavior by other candidates. We’ve almost run out of ethical upstanding candidates to vote for on Election Day, which is sad commentary on our state of politics.

[atomheartbevo 89656]

7 hours ago, Jograves said:

I grew up on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation and nearly every white kid that did was told they have some Native American in their woodpile. My grandmother was part Native American (I honestly have no idea how much) and we were told this from a very early age. It still comes up at family events when my grandma is brought up. I feel bad for Warren in a way because if you're proud of your family heritage and the stories you are told, it's very easy to get caught up in retelling these stories. I think labeling herself as she did was her way of showing pride in her family. That's not to say what she did on her bar card isn't wrong. I understand how it happens though, and I don't think it makes her 'slightly nutty' or a 'liar' on the scale of what we're currently witnessing. 

Most of my family is between Texas (settled NE Texas in the 1830s and 40s), Missouri (1850s), and Oklahoma and Arkansas (Cherokees and whites who married said Cherokees came over on the Trail of Tears when Arkansas and Oklahoma were combined Indian Territory, or whites who were actual Sooners).  More than a few of those ancestors were in places they shouldn’t be (Texas and Indian Territory)

Part of my family is actually part-Cherokee.  I’m even a card-carrying member of the Cherokee Nation (with a very low percentage).  Some DNA tests reflect that I have Native American ancestry (single-digits), some don’t (and none can tell you what tribe, which is why tribes pay no mind to such tests).  Some of my great-grandparents and gg-grandparents even looked full-blood (most weren’t)  

Even though I have the paperwork/ID that shows I’m a member, never in a million years would I identify as a minority or just straight-up Cherokee.  It would be just so fucking weird to me, given that I look 100% Anglo.  

Putting aside the legit Trail-of-Tears crowd in Arky and Oklahoma, plenty of others in my family think they have some kind of NA ancestry   They might - their ancestors were certainly in the right places at the right times and intermarriage was popular.  The problem for them is that ya some point, any actual ancestors with NA blood either decided they didn’t want to identify as a member of some tribe (they wanted to identify as fully white - it happened - I’ve seen folks identify differently between census records) or they didn’t care about the potential free land and so didn’t go through the effort of getting enrolled in the Dawes Roll(s).  

Those stories get passed down. Especially among the poorer folks (and Warrens family was poor). Almost as if it was an explanation for their lot in life, or the promise that there might be benefits.  Or bittnerness over a parent or grandparent not registering and getting their allotments. This is partly what I think happened with Warren - some in her family knew there was a NA ancestor and/or they needed that explanation for their lot in life, and they passed it down to the younger folks.  With her, we are talking 6-10 generations back.  If it was 6-7 generations back, then Warren’s grandmother might have known either the actual full-blood NA ancestor, or their half- or quarter-descendants. 

But it would have been minuscule by the time Warren was born.  And that’s a problem. 

[Jograves 357]

How'd she try to profit? I haven't seen any evidence of an attempt to profit. 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

1 minute ago, Jograves said:

How'd she try to profit? I haven't seen any evidence of an attempt to profit. 

If she did, doesn’t matter.  For whatever reason, this story has legs.  Maybe because she’s a liberal and liberals are more sensitive about this stuff.  

Live boy/dead girl wouldn’t matter with Trump.  Plenty of Republicans claim to be heterosexuals for that matter.  

It’s fucked up that this is still an issue.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

22 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Of course, if Satan could come to real life and run against Trump, I'd vote for Satan.  That's just where most of us are at.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to end up with a better, more qualified opponent.  Although Satan would seem to be very qualified with who he'd be presiding over in these here United States. 

He did, in the form of Hillary Rodham be-azulbub Clinton. 

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

He did, in the form of Hillary Rodham be-azulbub Clinton. 

Doing good work for the Democratic Party. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Doing good work for the Democratic Party. 

Apparently not, he/she/it lost.....

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Apparently not, he/she/it lost.....

And that helped the Democratic Party in a big way.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Bat Guano 359]

This stupid NA story has become part of her political persona now. I don't know if she can put it behind her. Maybe if she fesses up and apologizes a few more times it will help; on the one hand, anyone who won't vote for her because of this story very likely would never have voted for her anyway. On the other hand, she could be entering the Hillary zone, where the right-wing smear campaign just constantly throws so much shit in the air that people who would otherwise vote for her get the feeling that ... they just don't like her, can't really put their finger on why not. And on the other hand (yes, that's three if you're keeping track) maybe there's enough time left to bury this under other stuff, like the Green New Deal and her legitimately good ideas about bringing the fat cats to heel. But she's going to have to become a much more adept politician to pull that off; this kind of rookie mistake makes me think she doesn't have the political instincts or skill to close the deal, entirely apart from her policy ideas.

Why isn't there a Kirsten Gillibrand thread?

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

1 hour ago, Jograves said:

How'd she try to profit? I haven't seen any evidence of an attempt to profit. 

Many times when you apply for a job/position at ivy league institutions...you have a better shot of gaining admission/the job if you are an underrepresented minority.  So you would certainly benefit/profit by checking that box.  She seems to have checked it pretty regularly.  

[TwiceHorn 31453]

3 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Do you know that Native Americans get many breaks when applying for various positions in OK/TX?  I'm pretty sure I don't know of any breaks Germans catch, if so, please do educate me. 

You didn't receive the Herr Doktor Mengele Fellowship In Vivisection Studies at OU Medical School?

I am going to guess that whatever operative found her Texas bar "registration card" (an ostensibly non-public document) would have found similar documents and evidence of privileges conferred at UH or UT.  Or even Rutgers.

That's what seems to make this so weird. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by TwiceHorn