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Elizabeth Warren 2020

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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NWBuck
NWBuck

Someday I'll forgive the ignorant mofos who voted for anyone other than her during the primaries.  But that day is not gonna be anytime soon. 

LowPressure
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BrickHorn
BrickHorn

The Most Pampered Generation was gifted a cheap education.  Then they voted to dismantle the system that made their own success possible and compiled wealth from lower taxes due in part to reduced gov

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kevwun

kevwun 15783

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No, rich people who gave a shit about the average American were just as rare back then.  Rupert Murdoch doesn't have shit on William Randolph Hearst and Jay Gould was such an asshole he makes just about any other billionaire look like Mother Theresa.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 minute ago, kevwun said:

No, rich people who gave a shit about the average American were probably even rarer back then.

True to some extent, but there was a time when being rich meant giving back, doing civic duty.  The modern rich (20th c. rich) went away form that in droves

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Tom

Tom 2959

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It's amazing to me how people like Clinton (Bill), Obama, and Warren get labeled as elites when all three came from modest backgrounds and worked their way up.  Bill's an Arkie and Warren's an Okie, but they're the NE coastal elites.  Then there's Donald Trump, a New Yorker who inherited $400 million from his father and bankrupted companies and grifted up to billionaire status,  is the champion of the working class.

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Onboard 2.0

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3 minutes ago, Tom said:

It's amazing to me how people like Clinton (Bill), Obama, and Warren get labeled as elites when all three came from modest backgrounds and worked their way up.  Bill's an Arkie and Warren's an Okie, but they're the NE coastal elites.  Then there's Donald Trump, a New Yorker who inherited $400 million from his father and bankrupted companies and grifted up to billionaire status,  is the champion of the working class.

Bill Clinton an elite ? Arkansans are never elite anything...  His wife on the other hand........

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31457

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4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Bill Clinton an elite ? Arkansans are never elite anything...  His wife on the other hand........

He may have humble origins, but once he became a Rhodes Scholar, he became elite.  Probably once he went to G'town, actually.  Obama's a Kenyan product of miss-kedge-ination, so he's a furrin elite, too.

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Onboard 2.0

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12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

He may have humble origins, but once he became a Rhodes Scholar, he became elite.  Probably once he went to G'town, actually.  Obama's a Kenyan product of miss-kedge-ination, so he's a furrin elite, too.

Clinton never really played the part of an elite though IMO. I give him credit for that.  I know a couple Rhodes Scholars, and their personas are nothing like an elite

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TwiceHorn

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12 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Clinton never really played the part of an elite though IMO. I give him credit for that.  I know a couple Rhodes Scholars, and their personas are nothing like an elite

 

6 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Yeah, I don't remember Clinton ever being called an elite.  He always carried that Arkansas image not east coast elite image. 

Yeah, I'm not saying he played it up, but he was/is, in fact, an elite.  More elite than Warren.

Whether and how rubes perceive a candidate, as elite or anything else, tends to be rather unfathomable.  See, e.g., Donald Trump.  I think his being a tv personality curried more favor with the rubes than anything else.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29907

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2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

We’re getting awfully close to the “Elizabeth Warren needs to update her hair and makeup and wear more fashion forward clothing” conversation and fair warning, I’m getting preemptively bitchy about it.

I don't think anyone here is saying she needs to do so to get our votes. At this moment she has mine although I've always liked Joe Biden.

I'm really only the most casual observers of politicians. I didn't realize until reading this thread that she has the image of a "ball cutter" which she may be trying to soften. Knowing that, I still think the gammy thing is a mistake. I doubt she has much of a national persona for most voters. 

She doesn't need to redefine. She needs to define for people like me who have a rather soft focus on who she is beyond a few positions that I know she's taken. 

She needs to present as President of the United States. She needs to decide what that look likes instead of thinking looks don't matter as much as substance. Like I wrote above, it makes me want to vomit to write that, but it's undeniably true that substance is, at best, half of what gets someone elected to the White House.

This is one of the very few times I'll make a political prediction: If she doesn't make some tweaks and soon, her candidacy will never get off the ground. That would profoundly disappoint me.

 

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troph

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7 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

She needs good surrogates. If you watch Bernie's first two rallies (Brooklyn & Chicago), Nina Turner is on right before him and she gets the crowd hyped as hell. She does her "WITH THESE HANDS" bit and the audience is ready to go behead some capitalists, so Bernie walks up to a warm crowd.

 

I got to do that for Beto once, it was bad ass.

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TwiceHorn

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I'm also a bit troubled by things like not shaking DeVos' hand (Al Franken did), and refusing to say that Pence is a decent man (Biden did).  I don't care how contemptible you believe them to be, or how right you are about it, that's just not how you play politics successfully I don't believe.

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kevwun

kevwun 15783

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Normally I would agree, but these ain't normal times.  Those two are human sacks of shit and following normal protocols when interacting with them gives them legitimacy that they do not deserve.

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TwiceHorn

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Well, I think "the times" are a big part of the problem.  Someone has to be better than that.

Both sides ignored, benignly or malignantly, the rubes.  Just by acknowledging their presence and lying his ass off to them. Trump captured a big vote and created a monster.

You don't really have to educate them, just acknowledge them and they may be yours forever.  You never know when common courtesy, even insincere as hell, is going to help you out, or the lack of it fry your ass.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45681

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4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, I think "the times" are a big part of the problem.  Someone has to be better than that.

People have been trying to be the bigger person for 20 years and look where it's gotten us.  It's time to smack these people down.

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kevwun

kevwun 15783

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Playing nice with people who ignore the law, morality, protocol, etiquette and anything else doesn't accomplish anything.  People don't need to shake Mitch McConnell's hand.  They need to spit at his feet and turn their back to him.  These people need to be shunned at every opportunity.

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Jack Straw

Jack Straw 2954

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28 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Playing nice with people who ignore the law, morality, protocol, etiquette and anything else doesn't accomplish anything.  People don't need to shake Mitch McConnell's hand.  They need to spit at his feet and turn their back to him.  These people need to be shunned at every opportunity.

nm

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gmr548

gmr548 16576

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Well, I think "the times" are a big part of the problem.  Someone has to be better than that.
Both sides ignored, benignly or malignantly, the rubes.  Just by acknowledging their presence and lying his ass off to them. Trump captured a big vote and created a monster.
You don't really have to educate them, just acknowledge them and they may be yours forever.  You never know when common courtesy, even insincere as hell, is going to help you out, or the lack of it fry your ass.

Because Trump used decorum to sway voters.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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troph

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I'm also a bit troubled by things like not shaking DeVos' hand (Al Franken did), and refusing to say that Pence is a decent man (Biden did).  I don't care how contemptible you believe them to be, or how right you are about it, that's just not how you play politics successfully I don't believe.

Pence is decent under a definition that’s putrid, spoiled and gone rancid. The man believes having a one on one meeting with a woman is not ok because of the sex that might happen. It’s blatant sexism it’s exclusionary of half the population from positions of power. He thinks natural variation on our sexuality is some how akin to all of the harmful seven deadly sins combined times infinity so much so he is okay with every kind of pervasive discrimination (healthcare, insurance, housing, employment) that’s possible against lgbtq folks. The fact that he thinks he is decent and the fact that he sincerely believes this crap does not make him decent. It makes him a man that sincerely believes women should be kept in their place and that queer folk are inferior and should be kept down.

Fuck that. The guy is gross.
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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Very happy to see it ain't just Bernie with the big crowds.

God, President Warren would be so great

She visited Lawrenceville, about 15 minutes or so where we live. Because we had our young daughter with us we only got to see a few minutes of her but she got a decent crowd in metro Atlanta which used to be a huge white flight suburb.

 

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TwiceHorn

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Interesting Article I Stumbled Across

 

I'm kind of ambivalent about increased antitrust enforcement.  It's pretty clear that the Sherman and Clayton Acts, as originally conceived, were very economically naive.  However, I might accept that the "business justification" rule of reason has taken too much out of them.

And for big tech, I'm really unsure.  Microsoft's relatively sudden loss of monopoly/market power seems to be a testament to the way antitrust laws are currently enforced and interpreted.

And there are other reasons besides "compeititon"/antitrust to break up big banks and big tech.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Good podcast explaining why the concept of "electability" is complete bullshit.

The "electability" narrative naturally benefits white people, males, and those most aligned with the corporate interests that fund media via advertising.

Beto, Biden... "electable"

Warren, Bernie... "unelectable"

Yes, MSNBC jokingly did a piece on this diagnosising people with pundititis that buy into the “electability” bullshit.

It’s been a great way for the powers that be to psychologically rig the system. 

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