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Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 3:11 PM, GRHorn said:

Again I’d kind of lump it in with stolen valor or those random weirdos you hear that fake they have cancer or something.  

 

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I don't see it as similar to stolen valor at all, unless EW just decided one day she was going to claim Cherokee heritage. Atom's story is absolutely true -- EVERYBODY in Oklahoma claims that Cherokee princess in their family tree, and EW's family seems to be no exception. I believe that she had been told she was part Cherokee growing up, and it became part of her mental DNA if not her physical genes. 

Hell, I grew up believing some preposterous tale from my grandfather that had it the we were part Comanche. And not just any Comanche, but Quanah himself. I have come to realize that it's utter bullshit -- "heap big buffalo dung," as "my people" would say -- but I believed it when I was a kid and it was pretty hard to let it go once I got older, but once I got a grasp on history and my family's whitebread DNA tests rolled in, I was left with no choice. I snapped my war lance over my knee, smashed my peace pipe, threw away my buffalo jerky, and sold my painted war pony to a band of Gypsies. 

Joking aside, that's a key distinction from stolen valor cases. All of those people either manufacture military records or embellish them, sometimes minimally, and other times to the max -- like those people who claim to have been combat-tested Green Beret officers but who in reality flaked in boot camp.

But none of them grew up believing they were a Navy SEAL because their moms or grannies or both told them that. It's absurd on its face. 

And not all or even most stolen valor cases revolve around money, either. Those are the most egregious cases, of course, but it seems like most of those dudes want nothing more than respect or pity.

EW has never profited from her Cherokee tales; in fact, they are doing great harm to her career.

I think she clings to it for the same reason I really wanted to believe I had Comanche warrior blood in my veins. It was just so dang cool. Every American wants to find some kind of exotic genetic heritage -- if not Native American, then that they are 16th in line to the throne in Montenegro or some such shit. Some of us cling to these myths more tightly than others, and IMO embellishing your heritage is far less egregious than deliberately lying about your own life. 

 

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Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 6:08 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

I don't see it as similar to stolen valor at all, unless EW just decided one day she was going to claim Cherokee heritage. Atom's story is absolutely true -- EVERYBODY in Oklahoma claims that Cherokee princess in their family tree, and EW's family seems to be no exception. I believe that she had been told she was part Cherokee growing up, and it became part of her mental DNA if not her physical genes. 

Hell, I grew up believing some preposterous tale from my grandfather that had it the we were part Comanche. And not just any Comanche, but Quanah himself. I have come to realize that it's utter bullshit -- "heap big buffalo dung," as "my people" would say -- but I believed it when I was a kid and it was pretty hard to let it go once I got older, but once I got a grasp on history and my family's whitebread DNA tests rolled in, I was left with no choice. I snapped my war lance over my knee, smashed my peace pipe, threw away my buffalo jerky, and sold my painted war pony to a band of Gypsies. 

Joking aside, that's a key distinction from stolen valor cases. All of those people either manufacture military records or embellish them, sometimes minimally, and other times to the max -- like those people who claim to have been combat-tested Green Beret officers but who in reality flaked in boot camp.

But none of them grew up believing they were a Navy SEAL because their moms or grannies or both told them that. It's absurd on its face. 

And not all or even most stolen valor cases revolve around money, either. Those are the most egregious cases, of course, but it seems like most of those dudes want nothing more than respect or pity.

EW has never profited from her Cherokee tales; in fact, they are doing great harm to her career.

I think she clings to it for the same reason I really wanted to believe I had Comanche warrior blood in my veins. It was just so dang cool. Every American wants to find some kind of exotic genetic heritage -- if not Native American, then that they are 16th in line to the throne in Montenegro or some such shit. Some of us cling to these myths more tightly than others, and IMO embellishing your heritage is far less egregious than deliberately lying about your own life. 

 

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She’s never fully addressed it to my knowledge.  She could’ve just decided to claim it one day. Maybe it somehow got on her resume and she decided against changing it.  We don’t know.  

You really think she’s seen no benefit from claiming minority status? 

Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 8:49 PM, GRHorn said:

She’s never fully addressed it to my knowledge.  She could’ve just decided to claim it one day. Maybe it somehow got on her resume and she decided against changing it.  We don’t know.  

You really think she’s seen no benefit from claiming minority status? 

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We went over and over that on the old board and I was pretty convinced that she didn’t. IIRC the Indian heritage thing wasn’t added to her bio (as opposed to CV) until she got her job at Harvard. 

 

Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 8:57 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

We went over and over that on the old board and I was pretty convinced that she didn’t. IIRC the Indian heritage thing wasn’t added to her bio (as opposed to CV) until she got her job at Harvard. 

 

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I don’t buy it, but let’s say she didn’t benefit.  Why leave it up?   Honest mistake?  Sounds fishy but go with it. 

Probably gonna hurt her much more in potential primary battles when Dems are fighting over who’s further left.  You don’t think it’ll resonate with minority voters when another minority candidate like Kamala points out she was “mislabeled” as a minority for much of her career?  

  • Haha 1
Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 9:17 PM, RPM said:

No. It's not.

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Sure it is.  Progressives are supposed to apologize and make amends for their whiteness at every turn.  What’s the opposite of that?  Falsely claiming minority status for years?  

Kamala kill shot. If she so chooses. 

  • Fuck You 3
Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 9:45 PM, GRHorn said:

Sure it is.  Progressives are supposed to apologize and make amends for their whiteness at every turn.  What’s the opposite of that?  Falsely claiming minority status for years?  

Kamala kill shot. If she so chooses. 

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She really hasn't benefited from it at all. In fact, it was Harvard Law that reaped the benefits, because they touted her Native American heritage as proof of their diversity. 

  Quote

Warren’s central offense dates back to the mid 1980s, when she first formally notified law school administrators that her family tree includes Native Americans. Warren said she grew up with family stories about both grandparents on her mother’s side having some Cherokee or Delaware blood.

That genealogical claim has zero documentary evidence to back it up, according to a PolitiFact review of news and newsletter databases back to 1986.

Before this controversy arose in 2012, there is no account that Warren spoke publicly of having Native American roots, although she called herself Cherokee in a local Oklahoma cookbook in 1984.

There is no dispute that Warren formally notified officials at the University of Pennsylvania and then Harvard claiming Native American heritage after she was hired.

Her detractors say she deployed a faux Native American connection to improve her chances of landing teaching jobs at two of the country’s top law schools. However, there is no proof Warren gained any special advantage in her career.

uqy6
 
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Posted (edited)
  On 7/31/2018 at 10:46 PM, David Dennison said:

Because all things are relative, so are you.

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Okay.  You’re a white male liberal who probably works a government job.  What have you accomplished professionally and financially?

please tell us what you do for a living?

Edited by Johnny Sack
Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 12:56 PM, Huckleberry said:
lulz
"I realize Trump lies about everything but this one thing that another politician may or may not have lied about is different and needs to be explained."


“Trump does it so now it’s ok for my side.”
Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 5:45 PM, atomheartbevo said:
If people want to be outraged over her, they should outraged that she’s from Oklahoma.


Not everything is an outrage. I find it off putting and dishonest that she listed herself as Native American in the Harvard directory for ten years. That’s it.

She also sounds exasperated all the time which I actually find kind of funny.
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Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 10:34 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

She really hasn't benefited from it at all. In fact, it was Harvard Law that reaped the benefits, because they touted her Native American heritage as proof of their diversity. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

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Probably Harvard Law counted her as multiple minorities so they could keep out some other applicants, which they would have found some way to do anyway.

Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 12:18 AM, Buzzrock said:

 


Not everything is an outrage. I find it off putting and dishonest that she listed herself as Native American in the Harvard directory for ten years. That’s it.

She also sounds exasperated all the time which I actually find kind of funny.

 

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Totally this.

Plus the attempt at delineation that Harvard benefited but EW did not is laughable.

 

Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 12:23 AM, Buzzrock said:

Incorrect.

 

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Keep repeating that over and over like Dear Leader does and maybe someday it will come true. Well, not true, but maybe more people will bite.

Posted

Harvard was motivated to advance her career at Harvard because she allegedly checked a box they needed to check.

Maybe she didn’t need it.  But there damn sure is a reality someone goes out at Harvard if they can’t check that box.

Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 12:26 AM, RPM said:
Keep repeating that over and over like Dear Leader does and maybe someday it will come true. Well, not true, but maybe more people will bite.


Sorry to bust your bubble.
Posted
  On 7/31/2018 at 10:53 PM, Johnny Sack said:

Okay.  You’re a white male liberal who probably works a government job.  What have you accomplished professionally and financially?

please tell us what you do for a living?

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I'm whatever makes you feel better about yourself. It seems like you need that.

Posted (edited)
  On 8/1/2018 at 12:34 AM, Incredulity said:

Harvard was motivated to advance her career at Harvard because she allegedly checked a box they needed to check.

Maybe she didn’t need it.  But there damn sure is a reality someone goes out at Harvard if they can’t check that box.

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That's not what the people who advanced her said. The PR dept does not decide who gets tenure. 

From that article I posted:

  Quote

''I am a hard-working teacher, I have won teaching awards, I've written books that have won acclaim,'' Warren told reporters. ''I applied for one job in 1978 by letter, and every job I've had since then has been from someone who recruited me into that job. And they've come to me and said -- and they have now said publicly -- 'Because of your work, we'd like you to come here.' ''

Any special treatment?

Several people involved in hiring her at Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania lent their weight to that claim.

Harvard Law School professor Charles Fried, who served as U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan and was part of the committee that put Warren in a tenure position, said in a written statement that her ethnicity never came up during the process.

Fried, who donated $250 to Warren's campaign, told the Republican, a Springfield, Mass., newspaper, in 2012, "This stuff I hear that she was an affirmative action hire, got some kind of a boost, it is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind."

Asked about Warren’s minority status, Robert H. Mundheim, the dean who hired Warren at the University of Pennsylvania, told the Boston Globe that summer, "‘I don't think I ever knew that she had those attributes and that would not have made much of a difference."

A number of news organizations interviewed dozens of faculty and students from the three law schools where Warren taught, and no evidence emerged that any claim about her ethnic roots played a role in the hiring process.

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Edited by MaybeACoordinator
Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 12:52 AM, Incredulity said:

L O Fucking L.

So now we just take everyones word for fact.

 Well shit, call off the Mueller investigation, Trump has repeatedly said...

 

 

 

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Three people involved in her hiring processes at various stages of her career have said that either didn't know, didn't care, or both, but you just happen to have all the facts. I guess $0r0$ bought them all off too, including the Republican who hired her at Harvard.  

I'll take it out of the spoiler for you:

  Quote

 

Harvard Law School professor Charles Fried, who served as U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan and was part of the committee that put Warren in a tenure position, said in a written statement that her ethnicity never came up during the process.

Fried, who donated $250 to Warren's campaign, told the Republican, a Springfield, Mass., newspaper, in 2012, "This stuff I hear that she was an affirmative action hire, got some kind of a boost, it is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind."

 

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Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 12:58 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Three people involved in her hiring processes at various stages of her career have said that either didn't know, didn't care, or both, but you just happen to have all the facts. I guess $0r0$ bought them all off too, including the Republican who hired her at Harvard.  

I'll take it out of the spoiler for you:

 

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Care to post the political affiliations of the rest of the tenure committee?

Again a Harvard professor defending the practices of Harvard isn’t convincing.

I am pretty sure Sarah Huckabee Sanders would tell you everything is completely up to snuff in the Trump Administration.

Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 1:10 AM, Incredulity said:

Care to post the political affiliations of the rest of the tenure committee?

Again a Harvard professor defending the practices of Harvard isn’t convincing.

I am pretty sure Sarah Huckabee Sanders would tell you everything is completely up to snuff in the Trump Administration.

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You digging in on this "is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind."

Posted

Blood quantum laws are/were fucked up and claiming Native American heritage is differently complicated than identifying as black.  That's more of a criticism of "what if you were white but had a black cousin and..." analogies than a defense a shit given about Warren and her claim to Cherokee heritage.

Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 1:15 AM, Incredulity said:

Oh goodie... a personal attack.  The  singular, most important, sign of intelligence.

 

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So Pocahontas isn't a personal attack on Warren? I'm confused, but then most Trump logic does that to me.

Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 1:40 AM, RPM said:

So Pocahontas isn't a personal attack on Warren? I'm confused, but then most Trump logic does that to me.

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Haven’t defended calling her Pocahontas or said she isn’t “qualified”.  I completely disagree with the push back that she, “didn’t benefit”.  

 

The context of where she was during the 80’s and 90’s needs to be integrated into the debate over her benefiting.  The Ivy League was the bleeding edge of affirmative action and social justice movement.  They were desperate to tout their bona fides in regards to diversity.

Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 1:34 AM, Celery Man said:
Blood quantum laws are/were fucked up and claiming Native American heritage is differently complicated than identifying as black.  That's more of a criticism of "what if you were white but had a black cousin and..." analogies than a defense a shit given about Warren and her claim to Cherokee heritage.


Blood Quantum Laws is gonna be the title of my next album
Posted
  On 8/1/2018 at 1:40 AM, RPM said:

So Pocahontas isn't a personal attack on Warren? I'm confused, but then most Trump logic does that to me.

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They can’t just call her a prairie n.....evermind.

Trumpkins really have very little to criticize her personally - she grew up poor in Oklahoma in the 50s, she’s a woman (they would love to criticize that, but then their wives would beat them harder), and even with those two things, she still did quite well for herself. 

If they had anything more to go after her than the stories she was raised on, they would be using it right now.  Instead, Pocahontas is their best play.  

And it pisses off plenty of Native Americans against Trumpkins.  It is not lost on Native Americans that the Trumpkins are engaging in extremely thinly-veiled racism against Native Americans with the Pocahontas shit.  Oklahoma was a Democrat State less than 15 or so years ago, and Trump is trying to flip it back to D again.

Posted

How close to a perfect circle is the Venn diagram of those people who totally bought in to Trump's birther campaign against Obama and those who are totally outraged that Warren claimed Native American heritage?

Does anyone have a scanning ectron microscope they're not using? I think we might need it. 

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