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Elizabeth Warren 2020

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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NWBuck
NWBuck

Someday I'll forgive the ignorant mofos who voted for anyone other than her during the primaries.  But that day is not gonna be anytime soon. 

LowPressure
LowPressure
BrickHorn
BrickHorn

The Most Pampered Generation was gifted a cheap education.  Then they voted to dismantle the system that made their own success possible and compiled wealth from lower taxes due in part to reduced gov

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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I am concerned for her and all of the Democratic candidates. Trump and the GOP that goad and taunt with hate are well aware of what they are doing and will deny that vehemently while smirking and using their little hand signs and finger waves. January and we have many more days of this...

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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7 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I am concerned for her and all of the Democratic candidates. Trump and the GOP that goad and taunt with hate are well aware of what they are doing and will deny that vehemently while smirking and using their little hand signs and finger waves. January and we have many more days of this...

I’m more concerned about the billionaires trying to take her out than crazy uncle Cletus.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I like her.  She's my candidate.  But I think she has gone from realistic plans to pandering.

I can see how that perception would emerge.  Her theory of the case hasn’t changed but her focus on every niche issue does come off a little pandering.  

I have no illusions about what her priorities would be in office as far agenda and I view all the plans as more of an articulation of her vision in the way things should be and what she will do to accomplish it.  That’s fundamentally different from “making promises you can’t keep“ but I’m not sure all voters pick up on it.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31512

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I can see how that perception would emerge.  Her theory of the case hasn’t changed but her focus on every little niche issue does come off a little pandering.  

I have no illusions about what her priorities would be in office as far agenda and I view all the plans as more of an articulation of her vision in the way things should be and what she will do to accomplish it.  That’s fundamentally different from “making promises you can’t keep“ but I’m not sure all voters pick up on it.

Yeah, I mean it's kind of a #bothsides argument in that any politician is going to have to do a certain amount of pandering to get elected.  It's just that simple.

I do like that she has concrete ideas that I think would really change things.  I also think that she's not a socialist in that, while she has proposals to regulate capitalism, which is most assuredly out of control, her goal would never be state control or ownership of the means of production.  I'm reasonably sure that's Bernie's grail.  In the short term (i.e. what they could accomplish in eight years), there's probably little practical difference, but I think the underlying political philosophy is important.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46000

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I mean it's kind of a #bothsides argument in that any politician is going to have to do a certain amount of pandering to get elected.  It's just that simple.

I do like that she has concrete ideas that I think would really change things.  I also think that she's not a socialist in that, while she has proposals to regulate capitalism, which is most assuredly out of control, her goal would never be state control or ownership of the means of production.  I'm reasonably sure that's Bernie's grail.  In the short term (i.e. what they could accomplish in eight years), there's probably little practical difference, but I think the underlying political philosophy is important.

I was about to + rep you, but I think that's a stretch in your implication for Bernie.

That said, I'm no Bernie supporter, but if he emerges as the Dem candidate, then he has my vote over Trump.

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17729

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah

I do like that she has concrete ideas that I think would really change things.  I also think that she's not a socialist in that, while she has proposals to regulate capitalism, which is most assuredly out of control, her goal would never be state control or ownership of the means of production.  I'm reasonably sure that's Bernie's grail.  

Motherfucker you don’t even know the difference between communism and socialism. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46000

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12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

We should be able to replace the bold with ANY Dem candidate and make this statement true.  I worry we cannot.

Well, sure.  And it's why I'm chagrined over the revved up intra-party infighting.  It's counterproductive.  Show the country how to campaign for and against ideas, not for and against people, but apparently Bernie couldn't be bothered, and neither could whomever leaked that memo by Warren's camp.

And they're FRIENDS.

We.  Are.  Fucked.

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Hugo Stiglitz

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I was about to + rep you, but I think that's a stretch in your implication for Bernie.

That said, I'm no Bernie supporter, but if he emerges as the Dem candidate, then he has my vote over Trump.

Bernie used to be hardcore socialist back in the 70s so this idea that he’s been politically consistent throughout his life is not accurate, he’s moved well to the right over time, probably for political expediency since that’s the only real job he’s ever had.  
 

“In the 1970s, Sanders became involved with the Liberty Union, an anti-war political party in Vermont. In 1971, Sanders’ platform involved the legalization of all drugs, while in the following year he wrote in an op-ed that Congress should “institute public ownership, with worker control, of the major means of production.” Several years later, in 1976, Sanders told the Bennington Banner that a “sane society” required that “capital has to be controlled by the people.”

Still, Sanders was involved enough that he served as the chairperson of the party for several years in the 1970s. In 1972, Sanders backed Benjamin Spock as a presidential candidate over the Democratic candidate, George McGovern.

Spock was the candidate for the People’s Party, a now-defunct political party than ran in two presidential elections. Spock called for a maximum income of $55,000 and a minimum annual income of $6,500 for a family of four. Spock’s ideas were more in line with Liberty Union, as compared to McGovern’s ideas, Sanders said at the time.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernies-past-with-the-far-far-far-left


So either Bernie still really believes this shit OR he hasn’t been consistent.  It can’t be both. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46000

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6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So either Bernie still really believes this shit OR he hasn’t been consistent.  It can’t be both. 

By your definition, anyone whose views have evolved has been "inconsistent'.  I don't think that's fair.  I don't know if Bernie is lying when he talks about his platform, but I do know that what he suggests as policy isn't "socialism".

I just don't find him my favorite candidate of the bunch, solely on issues.  In fact, he's my least favorite.  But I'll still vote for him if he's the Dem candidate for POTUS.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

By your definition, anyone whose views have evolved has been "inconsistent'.  I don't think that's fair.  I don't know if Bernie is lying when he talks about his platform, but I do know that what he suggests as policy isn't "socialism".

I just don't find him my favorite candidate of the bunch, solely on issues.  In fact, he's my least favorite.  But I'll still vote for him if he's the Dem candidate for POTUS.

You’re right it isn’t fair.  Bernie has evolved to the right just as Warren has evolved to the left over their lived experiences.  Neither of those political maturations should be viewed as a negative. 

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