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Elizabeth Warren 2020

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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Posted (edited)

Cherokee nation pissed she's trying to steal their wampum.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cherokee-nation-responds-to-senator-warren-says-dna-test-useless-to-determine-tribal-citizenship

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"Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation," Hoskin continued. "Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage.

I had a friend, a number of years ago, who discovered that his kids were 1/8th "indian" and were going to get free college. I asked about details, like did he register them or anything in the way of proof. Nope. Being the diplomat that I am, I mentally noted that they weren't the least bit native american and I was appalled by the naked attempt at graft and fakery.

But then I don't think skin color is relevant to understanding a person and their character. You know, Martin Luther King's position.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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NWBuck
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Someday I'll forgive the ignorant mofos who voted for anyone other than her during the primaries.  But that day is not gonna be anytime soon. 

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BrickHorn

The Most Pampered Generation was gifted a cheap education.  Then they voted to dismantle the system that made their own success possible and compiled wealth from lower taxes due in part to reduced gov

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13475

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6 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Cherokee nation pissed she's trying to steal their wampum.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cherokee-nation-responds-to-senator-warren-says-dna-test-useless-to-determine-tribal-citizenship

I had a friend, a number of years ago, who discovered that his kids were 1/8th "indian" and were going to get free college. I asked about details, like did he register them or anything in the way of proof. Nope. Being the diplomat that I am, I mentally noted that they weren't the least bit native american and I was appalled by the naked attempt at graft and fakery.

But then I don't think skin color is relevant to understanding a person and their character. You know, Martin Luther King's position.

Oh you. Do you know what cognitive dissonance is?

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21345

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Just now, Bama Chick said:

The stupid “Indian” puns don’t make y’all look like the stereotypical racist trumpkin.

Nope. Not at all racist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd actually give a pass on some of them, if they were funny.  These are fucking terrible.  

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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There is an interesting amount of cognitive dissonance from some on the left about the Cherokee Nation's issue. I feel like any political opinion these days has to be qualified by whose side you're on, so let me qualify this by saying I'm in no way, shape, or form a Trump supporter. However...

The Cherokee Nation represents one of the most repressed and disadvantaged people in the history of this nation. They have come out and made an official statement that the implications behind Warren's ancestry debate are harmful to them and similar tribes across this nation and that they object. They deserve to be taken seriously. Those stating "that's not the point" of Warren's DNA test completely disregard the Cherokee Nation's thoughts on the matter. Warren got baited into playing Donald Trump's game. The problem with wrestling with pigs is that you get covered in shit and the pig likes it.

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11860

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45 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

this is not really "true".  I mean, it's definitely true because of our non white hispanic population, and sure - for the population of white people who have submitted to 23 and Me tests, a very large number would have similar or more "Native" ancestry than Warren in that test.  It's not a useful number.  Because a)there's not a large enough sample of "American Indian" Native Americans who have submitted samples, and because b) even if there were, probably it wouldn't come up as a bunch of distinct pools where you could say "this blood sample is 16% Comanche, 17% Kickapoo, 66% Irish" or something like that.  Warren didn't go around in her life trying to pass herself off as some born on the reservation Cherokee or whatever, she just had some family history that led her to believe that a few generations back she had a grandparent who was Native American.  It came up at Harvard, I don't know why at Harvard she or someone there decided to say that she was some degree Native American in her heritage but they did and as far as she was aware it was true.  The party of racial purity digs it up as dirt and starts calling her Pocahontas because lol she's so white.  Here's the current Chief of the Cherokee nation btw - 

250px-ChiefBillJohnBakerByPhilKonstantin

Trump says if there's Native American in her blood he'll give $1mm to a charity of her choice.  There is, as best as we can tell.  It's consistent with what she believed and not inconsistent with anything she has said.  I'm wondering about the timing as well, but she's been on the (sorry) warpath for several months.  Trump should pay up, if he has the money.

 

I have a non blood uncle who is Pueblo.  Strong family history that they are from Pueblo people.  His last name is very "Indian" seeming - think "Mooneagle".  He took one of those tests and was shocked at how little and how non specific it came up as Native American for him.  Those aren't exact and they aren't particularly useful for Native Americans.

Damn, Chevy Chase is an Indian?

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

There is an interesting amount of cognitive dissonance from some on the left about the Cherokee Nation's issue. I feel like any political opinion these days has to be qualified by whose side you're on, so let me qualify this by saying I'm in no way, shape, or form a Trump supporter. However...

The Cherokee Nation represents one of the most repressed and disadvantaged people in the history of this nation. They have come out and made an official statement that the implications behind Warren's ancestry debate are harmful to them and similar tribes across this nation and that they object. They deserve to be taken seriously. Those stating "that's not the point" of Warren's DNA test completely disregard the Cherokee Nation's thoughts on the matter. Warren got baited into playing Donald Trump's game. The problem with wrestling with pigs is that you get covered in shit and the pig likes it.

Maybe the Cherokee Nation should have spoken up more forcefully when Trump was slinging racial slurs and calling for DNA proof at Elizabeth Warren? 

I’m sorry but you don’t get to cry foul when someone is trying to defend themselves from a character assassination with hard evidence and facts. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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NameWithHeld

NameWithHeld 101

Posted
Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

 

 

Trump says if there's Native American in her blood he'll give $1mm to a charity of her choice.  There is, as best as we can tell.  It's consistent with what she believed and not inconsistent with anything she has said.  I'm wondering about the timing as well, but she's been on the (sorry) warpath for several months.  Trump should pay up, if he has the money.

 

I have a non blood uncle who is Pueblo.  Strong family history that they are from Pueblo people.  His last name is very "Indian" seeming - think "Mooneagle".  He took one of those tests and was shocked at how little and how non specific it came up as Native American for him.  Those aren't exact and they aren't particularly useful for Native Americans.

Then he should donate 1/1024 of a million dollars if he wants to be exact. 

Edited by NameWithHeld
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EuroHorn

EuroHorn 3295

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Maybe the Cherokee Nation should have spoken up more forcefully when Trump was slinging racial slurs and calling for DNA proof at Elizabeth Warren? 

I’m sorry but you don’t get to cry foul when someone is trying to defend themselves from a character assassination with hard evidence and facts. 

Both sides were against her since the day she was born

The Indians said she was white by law. The White Man always called her "Indian Squaw"

 

Edited by EuroHorn
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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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Posted
Maybe the Cherokee Nation should have spoken up more forcefully when Trump was slinging racial slurs and calling for DNA proof at Elizabeth Warren? 

I’m sorry but you don’t get to cry foul when someone is trying to defend themselves from a character assassination with hard evidence and facts. 

 

What Donald Trump does by calling her Pocahontas is obviously racist. I didn't know that the Cherokee Nation needed to issue a statement to inform the public about that. However, what they did feel that they needed to address was the use of DNA tests to show minute amounts of ancestry to prove certain cultural heritages for various purposes, political or otherwise. It has become a cultural phenomenon that will eventually lead to abuses of protections for native peoples by those who have never encountered the prejudices against Native Americans in their lifetime. The Cherokee Nation felt compelled by their own self-interest to address the issue.

 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 21098

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2 minutes ago, NameWithHeld said:

Then he should donate 1/1024 of a million dollars if you want to be exact. 

it seems exact to you because you can't hold on to a thought for longer than 10 seconds, or past when the next one comes along.  Apologies for the compound sentence.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

 

What Donald Trump does by calling her Pocahontas is obviously racist. I didn't know that the Cherokee Nation needed to issue a statement to inform the public about that. However, what they did feel that they needed to address was the use of DNA tests to show minute amounts of ancestry to prove certain cultural heritages for various purposes, political or otherwise. It has become a cultural phenomenon that will eventually lead to abuses of protections for native peoples by those who have never encountered the prejudices against Native Americans in their lifetime. The Cherokee Nation felt compelled by their own self-interest to address the issue.

 

This is the crux of the issue. She never faced any prejudice or abuse from her miniscule N.A. heritage yet, at the least, she allowed her employers to tout it to her benefit. It’s gonna continue to haunt her. 

 

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

It won’t matter by Friday much less by the midterms.

All anyone could talk about a week ago was Kavanaugh. And now? Old fucking news.

Seriously, there will be 387 more “distractions” between now and the midterms.

This won’t even be a thing.

It’s not going away. You don’t think she will/should address the Cherokee Nation blowing her up like that? If she does, what does she say?

Sorry I guess I didn’t really know the criteria for proving my ancestry. And I had to try to prove it because x,y,z. 

 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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And I have bad news for you Hugo. If Warren really is a threat to “the Machine” this is exactly the kind of thing that the media will drag her through the dirt on repeatedly when primaries come around.

If the establishment status quo is not threatened by her, she’ll get a free pass. She just won’t be the progressive fighting for the people like you’re hoping. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90646

Posted
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20 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

In a sick way, I am genuinely impressed with Republicans constant ability to pretend to care a lot about issues that actually mean nothing to them. Nobody fucking cares about any of this, but y’all will sure as hell make a big deal about it until like Wednesday.

It’s a good distraction from things like the Saudi stuff. 

Honestly, this is nothing.  Just wait until we get near the 29th or so.  You will see this shit ramp up like nobody’s business. 

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Nivek

Nivek 17411

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Posted
 
What Donald Trump does by calling her Pocahontas is obviously racist. I didn't know that the Cherokee Nation needed to issue a statement to inform the public about that. However, what they did feel that they needed to address was the use of DNA tests to show minute amounts of ancestry to prove certain cultural heritages for various purposes, political or otherwise. It has become a cultural phenomenon that will eventually lead to abuses of protections for native peoples by those who have never encountered the prejudices against Native Americans in their lifetime. The Cherokee Nation felt compelled by their own self-interest to address the issue.
 

Wait, you are telling me that people will abuse systems to their own benefit? Next you are gonna tell me that all churches are not on the level.
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RayDog

RayDog 682

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7 minutes ago, Nivek said:

If i recall correctly, Bill Maher made a joke about Trump’s dad being an orangutan and he would donate money if proven otherwise. Trump tried to collect the money and then sued him.

Warren should sue him for the money.

TYT covered this in a YouTube video.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28929

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Nivek said:

If i recall correctly, Bill Maher made a joke about Trump’s dad being an orangutan and he would donate money if proven otherwise. Trump tried to collect the money and then sued him.

That was hysterical. Trump actually sent Bill his birth certificate. Not his "long form" birth certificate like birther Donald demanded from Obama. 

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52-80

52-80 19377

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8 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Maybe the Cherokee Nation should have spoken up more forcefully when Trump was slinging racial slurs and calling for DNA proof at Elizabeth Warren? 

I’m sorry but you don’t get to cry foul when someone is trying to defend themselves from a character assassination with hard evidence and facts. 

pocahontas wasnt a cherokee tho

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

pocahontas wasnt a cherokee tho

Nobody was ever actually named Pocahontas. She was a manufactured idea based on a captive girl with Stockholm Syndrome. 

Doesnt make a difference though. For white folks like Trump and Warren, all the tribes are interchangable. Its kind of like how, for white conservatives, every Latino is Mexican.  Except with Native Americans, the left throws them all together too. 

 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28929

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42 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Nobody was ever actually named Pocahontas. She was a manufactured idea based on a captive girl with Stockholm Syndrome. 

Doesnt make a difference though. For white folks like Trump and Warren, all the tribes are interchangable. Its kind of like how, for white conservatives, every Latino is Mexican.  Except with Native Americans, the left throws them all together too. 

How do you lump Trump and Warren together on this issue? Or make a sweeping generalization on how the left views Native Americans? What has Warren ever done or said that suggests she thinks the tribes are "interchangeable?" 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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4 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

How do you lump Trump and Warren together on this issue? Or make a sweeping generalization on how the left views Native Americans? What has Warren ever done or said that suggests she thinks the tribes are "interchangeable?" 

The fact that Warren is even involved in this shitfest suggests that. Fair point on the left in general though. Consider that sweeping generalization retracted. 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1799

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The fact that Warren is even involved in this shitfest suggests that. Fair point on the left in general though. Consider that sweeping generalization retracted.

Warren repeats what may be a lie told to a lot of Okies. Harvard uses this even though she never marked herself as a Native American. Should we have purity tests for every single liberal politican and check if they've ever repeated something their parents told them that wasn't correct?

GTFO with this false equivalency BS.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28929

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1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

Warren repeats what may be a lie told to a lot of Okies. Harvard uses this even though she never marked herself as a Native American. Should we have purity tests for every single liberal politican and check if they've ever repeated something that wasn't correct which was told to then by that parents?

GTFO with this false equivalency BS.

Except that we now have proof that she genuinely does have some Native American heritage just like she claimed. It's what her family told her and it was true. She never made a big deal over it. Her Republican opponents did for purely political reasons. If not for them we wouldn't know anything about this totally irrelevant non-issue. 

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10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

I’m sorry but you don’t get to cry foul when someone is trying to defend themselves from a character assassination with hard evidence and facts. 

Remember when people wouldn’t accept Kavanaugh’s “decorum” and being too emotional because he was trying to defend himself from a character assasination with evidence (“testimony is evidence” you say) and facts?

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

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12 hours ago, horncyclist said:

Is the less native than average person fact true? Sounds like disinformation to me. Link for that?

Probably so.  But more importantly, she didn't claim to have more Native American blood than the average person.  She simply claimed to have Native American ancestry.  Onboard is either too stupid or too disingenuous to note the difference.  

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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2 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

East, she never claimed to be a part of their tribe. I don't get your point other than yes most of us know that Native Americans are one of the most poorly treated groups on this country.

You're touching on my point in your first sentence. The most common reaction to the Cherokee Nation's statement is "Elizabeth Warren never claimed tribal membership." That isn't what the Cherokee Nation is objecting to. You mentioned in a post later down the thread about how common it is for white families in Oklahoma to pass down tales of an ancient Native ancestor. It's always a great great grandmother. It isn't exclusive to Oklahoma. All states that had a large native presence in the late 19th century seem to have that in common. Hell, Johnny Cash thought he was part Native American and built a musical catalogue around it. He later found out through research that he had zero affiliation. I've heard it joked about several times in my life that "every white girl thinks she's 1/16th Indian."

Enter the modern day and now you have these tall tales of a great great grandmother who was full blood Native and these people go out and get a DNA test, see a sprinkle of "American" native, and it's off to the races. This is an issue that tribes such as the Cherokee Nation have a legitimate policy interest in. If Elizabeth Warren comes out and points to her small percentage, calls it a victory, and tells Trump to pay up, then that leaves the door open to possible hundreds of thousands of people using their DNA tests in an attempt to obtain tribal membership across the country wanting the tribe and the US government to "pay up." They'll be denied and when they are denied, they'll sue. Then these tribes will have to spend millions in legal fees defending themselves.

Also, I find it very interesting that in the surge of social awareness that this country has had over the last half decade or so, we seem to be so willing to disregard the concerns of the Cherokee Nation. They are a protected class of people whose ancestors endured horrors and genocide and felt compelled to issue a statement that they are offended and object to Native heritage being used as political fodder and have warned of the dangers of that. So many times we have heard when other groups are offended that it is not our job to determine whether or not they SHOULD be offended, but recognize that they ARE offended, respect that, and enter a dialogue to better understand why and attempt to correct it. The Cherokee Nation feels that their identity and what little security they have left in this nation is being encroached upon, and I feel that the nation, especially the Democrats as our last bastion of civility (however little some may think that may be), owe the statement of the Cherokee Nation the credibility and respect that it rightfully deserves.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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26 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Except that we now have proof that she genuinely does have some Native American heritage just like she claimed. It's what her family told her and it was true. She never made a big deal over it. Her Republican opponents did for purely political reasons. If not for them we wouldn't know anything about this totally irrelevant non-issue. 

Yeah, she has exactly half as much as I have, and I have just the remaining vestiges from 4-5 generations back.  She has less than most Americans (or did you just gloss over that statistic ?)  So her claims are still suspect.  

 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

You're touching on my point in your first sentence. The most common reaction to the Cherokee Nation's statement is "Elizabeth Warren never claimed tribal membership." That isn't what the Cherokee Nation is objecting to. You mentioned in a post later down the thread about how common it is for white families in Oklahoma to pass down tales of an ancient Native ancestor. It's always a great great grandmother. It isn't exclusive to Oklahoma. All states that had a large native presence in the late 19th century seem to have that in common. Hell, Johnny Cash thought he was part Native American and built a musical catalogue around it. He later found out through research that he had zero affiliation. I've heard it joked about several times in my life that "every white girl thinks she's 1/16th Indian."

Enter the modern day and now you have these tall tales of a great great grandmother who was full blood Native and these people go out and get a DNA test, see a sprinkle of "American" native, and it's off to the races. This is an issue that tribes such as the Cherokee Nation have a legitimate policy interest in. If Elizabeth Warren comes out and points to her small percentage, calls it a victory, and tells Trump to pay up, then that leaves the door open to possible hundreds of thousands of people using their DNA tests in an attempt to obtain tribal membership across the country wanting the tribe and the US government to "pay up." They'll be denied and when they are denied, they'll sue. Then these tribes will have to spend millions in legal fees defending themselves.

Also, I find it very interesting that in the surge of social awareness that this country has had over the last half decade or so, we seem to be so willing to disregard the concerns of the Cherokee Nation. They are a protected class of people whose ancestors endured horrors and genocide and felt compelled to issue a statement that they are offended and object to Native heritage being used as political fodder and have warned of the dangers of that. So many times we have heard when other groups are offended that it is not our job to determine whether or not they SHOULD be offended, but recognize that they ARE offended, respect that, and enter a dialogue to better understand why and attempt to correct it. The Cherokee Nation feels that their identity and what little security they have left in this nation is being encroached upon, and I feel that the nation, especially the Democrats as our last bastion of civility (however little some may think that may be), owe the statement of the Cherokee Nation the credibility and respect that it rightfully deserves.

Out of curiosity, did the Cherokee Nation criticize Trump for demanding the DNA test? 

Edited by Mojo Hand
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