Elizabeth Warren 2020

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Again I’d kind of lump it in with stolen valor or those random weirdos you hear that fake they have cancer or something.  

 

I don't see it as similar to stolen valor at all, unless EW just decided one day she was going to claim Cherokee heritage. Atom's story is absolutely true -- EVERYBODY in Oklahoma claims that Cherokee princess in their family tree, and EW's family seems to be no exception. I believe that she had been told she was part Cherokee growing up, and it became part of her mental DNA if not her physical genes. 

Hell, I grew up believing some preposterous tale from my grandfather that had it the we were part Comanche. And not just any Comanche, but Quanah himself. I have come to realize that it's utter bullshit -- "heap big buffalo dung," as "my people" would say -- but I believed it when I was a kid and it was pretty hard to let it go once I got older, but once I got a grasp on history and my family's whitebread DNA tests rolled in, I was left with no choice. I snapped my war lance over my knee, smashed my peace pipe, threw away my buffalo jerky, and sold my painted war pony to a band of Gypsies. 

Joking aside, that's a key distinction from stolen valor cases. All of those people either manufacture military records or embellish them, sometimes minimally, and other times to the max -- like those people who claim to have been combat-tested Green Beret officers but who in reality flaked in boot camp.

But none of them grew up believing they were a Navy SEAL because their moms or grannies or both told them that. It's absurd on its face. 

And not all or even most stolen valor cases revolve around money, either. Those are the most egregious cases, of course, but it seems like most of those dudes want nothing more than respect or pity.

EW has never profited from her Cherokee tales; in fact, they are doing great harm to her career.

I think she clings to it for the same reason I really wanted to believe I had Comanche warrior blood in my veins. It was just so dang cool. Every American wants to find some kind of exotic genetic heritage -- if not Native American, then that they are 16th in line to the throne in Montenegro or some such shit. Some of us cling to these myths more tightly than others, and IMO embellishing your heritage is far less egregious than deliberately lying about your own life. 

 

[27-25 2040]

58 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

...if not Native American, then that they are 16th in line to the throne in Montenegro or some such shit.

 

Well, that would explain your aggressive rhetoric, or so I've heard.

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I don't see it as similar to stolen valor at all, unless EW just decided one day she was going to claim Cherokee heritage. Atom's story is absolutely true -- EVERYBODY in Oklahoma claims that Cherokee princess in their family tree, and EW's family seems to be no exception. I believe that she had been told she was part Cherokee growing up, and it became part of her mental DNA if not her physical genes. 

Hell, I grew up believing some preposterous tale from my grandfather that had it the we were part Comanche. And not just any Comanche, but Quanah himself. I have come to realize that it's utter bullshit -- "heap big buffalo dung," as "my people" would say -- but I believed it when I was a kid and it was pretty hard to let it go once I got older, but once I got a grasp on history and my family's whitebread DNA tests rolled in, I was left with no choice. I snapped my war lance over my knee, smashed my peace pipe, threw away my buffalo jerky, and sold my painted war pony to a band of Gypsies. 

Joking aside, that's a key distinction from stolen valor cases. All of those people either manufacture military records or embellish them, sometimes minimally, and other times to the max -- like those people who claim to have been combat-tested Green Beret officers but who in reality flaked in boot camp.

But none of them grew up believing they were a Navy SEAL because their moms or grannies or both told them that. It's absurd on its face. 

And not all or even most stolen valor cases revolve around money, either. Those are the most egregious cases, of course, but it seems like most of those dudes want nothing more than respect or pity.

EW has never profited from her Cherokee tales; in fact, they are doing great harm to her career.

I think she clings to it for the same reason I really wanted to believe I had Comanche warrior blood in my veins. It was just so dang cool. Every American wants to find some kind of exotic genetic heritage -- if not Native American, then that they are 16th in line to the throne in Montenegro or some such shit. Some of us cling to these myths more tightly than others, and IMO embellishing your heritage is far less egregious than deliberately lying about your own life. 

 

She’s never fully addressed it to my knowledge.  She could’ve just decided to claim it one day. Maybe it somehow got on her resume and she decided against changing it.  We don’t know.  

You really think she’s seen no benefit from claiming minority status? 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

She’s never fully addressed it to my knowledge.  She could’ve just decided to claim it one day. Maybe it somehow got on her resume and she decided against changing it.  We don’t know.  

You really think she’s seen no benefit from claiming minority status? 

We went over and over that on the old board and I was pretty convinced that she didn’t. IIRC the Indian heritage thing wasn’t added to her bio (as opposed to CV) until she got her job at Harvard. 

 

[RPM 26185]

6 hours ago, GRHorn said:

It’s kind of a big deal.

No. It's not.

[GRHorn 105]

15 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

We went over and over that on the old board and I was pretty convinced that she didn’t. IIRC the Indian heritage thing wasn’t added to her bio (as opposed to CV) until she got her job at Harvard. 

 

I don’t buy it, but let’s say she didn’t benefit.  Why leave it up?   Honest mistake?  Sounds fishy but go with it. 

Probably gonna hurt her much more in potential primary battles when Dems are fighting over who’s further left.  You don’t think it’ll resonate with minority voters when another minority candidate like Kamala points out she was “mislabeled” as a minority for much of her career?  

[GRHorn 105]

30 minutes ago, RPM said:

No. It's not.

Sure it is.  Progressives are supposed to apologize and make amends for their whiteness at every turn.  What’s the opposite of that?  Falsely claiming minority status for years?  

Kamala kill shot. If she so chooses. 

[RPM 26185]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Sure it is.

Nope. The only people it even registers with are Trumpkins. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

48 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Sure it is.  Progressives are supposed to apologize and make amends for their whiteness at every turn.  What’s the opposite of that?  Falsely claiming minority status for years?  

Kamala kill shot. If she so chooses. 

She really hasn't benefited from it at all. In fact, it was Harvard Law that reaped the benefits, because they touted her Native American heritage as proof of their diversity. 

Quote

Warren’s central offense dates back to the mid 1980s, when she first formally notified law school administrators that her family tree includes Native Americans. Warren said she grew up with family stories about both grandparents on her mother’s side having some Cherokee or Delaware blood.

That genealogical claim has zero documentary evidence to back it up, according to a PolitiFact review of news and newsletter databases back to 1986.

Before this controversy arose in 2012, there is no account that Warren spoke publicly of having Native American roots, although she called herself Cherokee in a local Oklahoma cookbook in 1984.

There is no dispute that Warren formally notified officials at the University of Pennsylvania and then Harvard claiming Native American heritage after she was hired.

Her detractors say she deployed a faux Native American connection to improve her chances of landing teaching jobs at two of the country’s top law schools. However, there is no proof Warren gained any special advantage in her career.

 

 

Spoiler

The first mention

Warren’s heritage wasn’t something she brought up during her 2012 Senate race against Republican Scott Brown.

The questions started with a Boston Herald story on April 27, 2012.

"Elizabeth Warren’s avowed Native American heritage — which the candidate rarely if ever discusses on the campaign trail — was once touted by embattled Harvard Law School officials who cited her claim as proof of their faculty’s diversity," the article began. What the article revealed dated back more than a decade to diversity records kept by Harvard.

At a time when law schools faced public pressure to show greater ethnic diversity within their faculty, the university’s Crimson newspaper quoted a law school spokesman in 1996 saying Warren was Native American.

The Boston Globe followed the Herald with a report that the Association of American Law Schools listed Warren as a minority law teacher each year from 1986 to 1994. In that time, Warren went from being a law professor at the University of Texas, to the University of Pennsylvania, and finally in 1995 to Harvard University.

That association received faculty lists from law schools and sent personal profile forms to new faculty members. The group first asked about minority status in 1986.

The directories don’t indicate which minority group the person belonged to, so it would not be obvious to schools or other readers that Warren was thinking of her Native American roots.

It’s not certain that the directory form gave Warren the option to identify as Native American. All we know for sure is that the directory listed law school faculty who self-identified as minority.

Given the association’s process of sending the form to new faculty, it is possible that Warren filled out that form three times: once in 1986 when she was at the University of Texas, in 1987 when she moved to the University of Pennsylvania, and a third time when she spent a year as visiting faculty at Harvard in 1992. In 1995, when she moved to Harvard, she no longer appears in the minority teacher list.

Roots without a paper trail

Warren’s campaign team could never uncover any documents that confirmed Native American heritage in her family.

The New England Historic Genealogical Society also could not find any.

'We have no proof that Elizabeth Warren's great-great-great-grandmother O.C. Sarah Smith either is or is not of Cherokee descent,' society spokesman Tom Champoux told the Herald for a May 2012 story. (When we called the society, a spokesman said we should look at its statements from 2012.)

Warren’s ultimate explanation was she was drawing on family stories.

"As a kid, I never asked my mom about documentation when she talked about our Native American heritage," Warren said in a 2012 campaign ad. "What kid would? But I knew my father’s family didn’t like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware. So my parents had to elope."

Warren’s extended family offered a mixed take on those stories to Boston Globe reporters.  

Gloria Wysong, a cousin, said that her mother told her that the family's heritage "was Delaware, but the Delaware and Cherokee merged together."

And David Herring, Warren’s brother, said he grew up hearing, "Your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee."  

But other cousins had no such memories.

The main takeaway from the Globe’s reporting was that many who had Native American ties hid them, and documentation at the turn of the last century was spotty. In any event, any ties were so distant that they would not qualify her as minority by any official yardstick.

Warren herself didn’t trumpet this side of her family story. When applying to college and law school, records show that she either identified as white or declined to apply based on minority status.

Warren’s first responses

Warren’s opponent Scott Brown jumped on the revelations and called on her to apologize for Harvard having touted her dubious ethnic roots. Brown also said she had used an invented minority status to make herself more attractive to law schools.

Warren refused to apologize, saying she didn’t know Harvard was promoting her that way. She did confirm, however, that she had told the law school association that she held a minority status.

"I listed myself (in the) directory in the hopes that might mean that I would be invited to a luncheon, a group something, with people who are like I am," Warren told reporters May 3, 2012. "Nothing like that ever happened. That was absolutely not the use for it and so I stopped checking it off."

Warren rejected the idea that her ethnic status helped her law school appointments.

''I am a hard-working teacher, I have won teaching awards, I've written books that have won acclaim,'' Warren told reporters. ''I applied for one job in 1978 by letter, and every job I've had since then has been from someone who recruited me into that job. And they've come to me and said -- and they have now said publicly -- 'Because of your work, we'd like you to come here.' ''

Any special treatment?

Several people involved in hiring her at Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania lent their weight to that claim.

Harvard Law School professor Charles Fried, who served as U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan and was part of the committee that put Warren in a tenure position, said in a written statement that her ethnicity never came up during the process.

Fried, who donated $250 to Warren's campaign, told the Republican, a Springfield, Mass., newspaper, in 2012, "This stuff I hear that she was an affirmative action hire, got some kind of a boost, it is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind."

Asked about Warren’s minority status, Robert H. Mundheim, the dean who hired Warren at the University of Pennsylvania, told the Boston Globe that summer, "‘I don't think I ever knew that she had those attributes and that would not have made much of a difference."

A number of news organizations interviewed dozens of faculty and students from the three law schools where Warren taught, and no evidence emerged that any claim about her ethnic roots played a role in the hiring process.

That hasn’t moved her critics, including a biting op-ed in the conservative National Review, but even that article acknowledged hard proof of favoritism is lacking.

Warren initially said she didn’t remember listing her Native American background during the hiring process for either job. About a month after the controversy hit, she tweaked that to say she told them after the fact.

"At some point after I was hired by them, I also provided that information to the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard,’’ she said in a statement issued by her campaign. "My Native American heritage is part of who I am, I’m proud of it, and I have been open about it.’’

Typically, Warren would have filled out forms for tracking faculty diversity. The Boston Globe found that Harvard reported one Native American teacher when Warren was there as a visiting professor, then again when she joined the permanent faculty. The University of Pennsylvania had similar reports.

Neither the schools nor Warren have opened up the personnel files that might add more details.

A recipe for embarrassment

The final snippet of Warren’s tribal tale is trivial but has delighted her critics to no end.

In 1984, a cousin in Oklahoma asked her to contribute recipes for a cookbook billed as "recipes passed down through the Five Tribes families." The book was entitled Pow Wow Chow.

Warren sent five, and under each one, listed herself as Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee.

Given that a cousin asked her to participate, this might lend credence to the notion that at least among her family, a tribal connection was taken for granted.

But it didn’t help that her recipes included one for crab with mayonnaise and another for herbed tomatoes — hardly traditional fare.

And to make matters worse, some of the recipes appear to have been copied from the New York Times wire service.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Leaked photo of Warren at a Black Panther Rally. She is about to turn around and set those flags on fire because she hates what America did to her ancestors and feels solidarity with the Bleks. 

 

 

[David Dennison 18608]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Bernie was on welfare and never had a job until he was in his mid 30s, when he finally got elected to a political position.  He is a loser.

Because all things are relative, so are you.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Because all things are relative, so are you.

Okay.  You’re a white male liberal who probably works a government job.  What have you accomplished professionally and financially?

please tell us what you do for a living?

Edited July 31, 2018 by Johnny Sack

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Back to the "all Okies claim Cherokee:

"My name's Billy Austin and I'm 29 years old. I was born in Oklahoma, quarter-Cherokee I'm told."

 

[Buzzrock 14867]

lulz
"I realize Trump lies about everything but this one thing that another politician may or may not have lied about is different and needs to be explained."

“Trump does it so now it’s ok for my side.”

[Buzzrock 14867]

i'm not for Trump, Bernie is by far the most honest candidate.  

With you on that one

[Buzzrock 14867]

If people want to be outraged over her, they should outraged that she’s from Oklahoma.

Not everything is an outrage. I find it off putting and dishonest that she listed herself as Native American in the Harvard directory for ten years. That’s it.

She also sounds exasperated all the time which I actually find kind of funny.

[Buzzrock 14867]

Nope. The only people it even registers with are Trumpkins. 

Incorrect.

[RDCanecutter 26239]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

She really hasn't benefited from it at all. In fact, it was Harvard Law that reaped the benefits, because they touted her Native American heritage as proof of their diversity. 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Probably Harvard Law counted her as multiple minorities so they could keep out some other applicants, which they would have found some way to do anyway.

[Incredulity 11532]

8 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Not everything is an outrage. I find it off putting and dishonest that she listed herself as Native American in the Harvard directory for ten years. That’s it.

She also sounds exasperated all the time which I actually find kind of funny.

 

Totally this.

Plus the attempt at delineation that Harvard benefited but EW did not is laughable.

 

[RPM 26185]

4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Incorrect.

 

Keep repeating that over and over like Dear Leader does and maybe someday it will come true. Well, not true, but maybe more people will bite.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Probably Harvard Law counted her as multiple minorities so they could keep out some other applicants, which they would have found some way to do anyway.

Well she did say she was part Delaware and part Cherokee. And she's a woman, so that's three. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Totally this.

Plus the attempt at delineation that Harvard benefited but EW did not is laughable.

 

Name on way she has benefited.  Read the article and point out how she benefited. 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

[Incredulity 11532]

Harvard was motivated to advance her career at Harvard because she allegedly checked a box they needed to check.

Maybe she didn’t need it.  But there damn sure is a reality someone goes out at Harvard if they can’t check that box.

[Buzzrock 14867]

Keep repeating that over and over like Dear Leader does and maybe someday it will come true. Well, not true, but maybe more people will bite.

Sorry to bust your bubble.

[David Dennison 18608]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Okay.  You’re a white male liberal who probably works a government job.  What have you accomplished professionally and financially?

please tell us what you do for a living?

I'm whatever makes you feel better about yourself. It seems like you need that.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

15 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Harvard was motivated to advance her career at Harvard because she allegedly checked a box they needed to check.

Maybe she didn’t need it.  But there damn sure is a reality someone goes out at Harvard if they can’t check that box.

That's not what the people who advanced her said. The PR dept does not decide who gets tenure. 

From that article I posted:

Quote

''I am a hard-working teacher, I have won teaching awards, I've written books that have won acclaim,'' Warren told reporters. ''I applied for one job in 1978 by letter, and every job I've had since then has been from someone who recruited me into that job. And they've come to me and said -- and they have now said publicly -- 'Because of your work, we'd like you to come here.' ''

Any special treatment?

Several people involved in hiring her at Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania lent their weight to that claim.

Harvard Law School professor Charles Fried, who served as U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan and was part of the committee that put Warren in a tenure position, said in a written statement that her ethnicity never came up during the process.

Fried, who donated $250 to Warren's campaign, told the Republican, a Springfield, Mass., newspaper, in 2012, "This stuff I hear that she was an affirmative action hire, got some kind of a boost, it is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind."

Asked about Warren’s minority status, Robert H. Mundheim, the dean who hired Warren at the University of Pennsylvania, told the Boston Globe that summer, "‘I don't think I ever knew that she had those attributes and that would not have made much of a difference."

A number of news organizations interviewed dozens of faculty and students from the three law schools where Warren taught, and no evidence emerged that any claim about her ethnic roots played a role in the hiring process.

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by MaybeACoordinator

[RDCanecutter 26239]

3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Kamala kill shot. If she so chooses. 

Kamala has probably never held a gun, and Warren is still at least 97% redneck. Who am I kidding-- neither one of them could hit shit.

[David Dennison 18608]

Those Native Americans get all the breaks.

Do you people hear yourselves?

[Incredulity 11532]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That's not what the people who advanced her said. The PR dept does not decide who gets tenure. 

L O Fucking L.

So now we just take everyones word for fact.

 Well shit, call off the Mueller investigation, Trump has repeatedly said...

 

 

 

[RDCanecutter 26239]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Those Native Americans get all the breaks.

Do you people hear yourselves?

[Incredulity 11532]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Those Native Americans get all the breaks.

Do you people hear yourselves?

Nowhere near what anyone has said.

 

 In fact that a non-Indian and Harvard benefited from claims they were or employed an Indian is exactly the problem.

[Buzzrock 14867]

Those Native Americans get all the breaks.
Do you people hear yourselves?

You need new material

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

L O Fucking L.

So now we just take everyones word for fact.

 Well shit, call off the Mueller investigation, Trump has repeatedly said...

 

 

 

Three people involved in her hiring processes at various stages of her career have said that either didn't know, didn't care, or both, but you just happen to have all the facts. I guess $0r0$ bought them all off too, including the Republican who hired her at Harvard.  

I'll take it out of the spoiler for you:

Quote

 

Harvard Law School professor Charles Fried, who served as U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan and was part of the committee that put Warren in a tenure position, said in a written statement that her ethnicity never came up during the process.

Fried, who donated $250 to Warren's campaign, told the Republican, a Springfield, Mass., newspaper, in 2012, "This stuff I hear that she was an affirmative action hire, got some kind of a boost, it is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind."

 

 

[David Dennison 18608]

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Nowhere near what anyone has said.

 

 In fact that a non-Indian and Harvard benefited from claims they were or employed an Indian is exactly the problem.

Yeah, but it's kinda what you're saying.

[Incredulity 11532]

7 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Three people involved in her hiring processes at various stages of her career have said that either didn't know, didn't care, or both, but you just happen to have all the facts. I guess $0r0$ bought them all off too, including the Republican who hired her at Harvard.  

I'll take it out of the spoiler for you:

 

Care to post the political affiliations of the rest of the tenure committee?

Again a Harvard professor defending the practices of Harvard isn’t convincing.

I am pretty sure Sarah Huckabee Sanders would tell you everything is completely up to snuff in the Trump Administration.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Care to post the political affiliations of the rest of the tenure committee?

Again a Harvard professor defending the practices of Harvard isn’t convincing.

I am pretty sure Sarah Huckabee Sanders would tell you everything is completely up to snuff in the Trump Administration.

You digging in on this "is so ludicrous and so desperately stupid and ignorant, it just boggles the mind."

[Incredulity 11532]

Oh goodie... a personal attack.  The  singular, most important, sign of intelligence.

 

[Celery Man 20874]

Blood quantum laws are/were fucked up and claiming Native American heritage is differently complicated than identifying as black.  That's more of a criticism of "what if you were white but had a black cousin and..." analogies than a defense a shit given about Warren and her claim to Cherokee heritage.

[RPM 26185]

26 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Oh goodie... a personal attack.  The  singular, most important, sign of intelligence.

 

So Pocahontas isn't a personal attack on Warren? I'm confused, but then most Trump logic does that to me.

[Incredulity 11532]

3 minutes ago, RPM said:

So Pocahontas isn't a personal attack on Warren? I'm confused, but then most Trump logic does that to me.

Haven’t defended calling her Pocahontas or said she isn’t “qualified”.  I completely disagree with the push back that she, “didn’t benefit”.  

 

The context of where she was during the 80’s and 90’s needs to be integrated into the debate over her benefiting.  The Ivy League was the bleeding edge of affirmative action and social justice movement.  They were desperate to tout their bona fides in regards to diversity.

[RPM 26185]

39 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

a personal attack.  The  singular, most important, sign of intelligence.

Poca. Hontas.  It's the Trumpkin mantra.

[Buzzrock 14867]

Blood quantum laws are/were fucked up and claiming Native American heritage is differently complicated than identifying as black.  That's more of a criticism of "what if you were white but had a black cousin and..." analogies than a defense a shit given about Warren and her claim to Cherokee heritage.

Blood Quantum Laws is gonna be the title of my next album

[Incredulity 11532]

7 minutes ago, RPM said:

Poca. Hontas.  It's the Trumpkin mantra.

Trump is a moron.

It’s Fauxahontas.  Or Lieawtha.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

21 minutes ago, RPM said:

So Pocahontas isn't a personal attack on Warren? I'm confused, but then most Trump logic does that to me.

They can’t just call her a prairie n.....evermind.

Trumpkins really have very little to criticize her personally - she grew up poor in Oklahoma in the 50s, she’s a woman (they would love to criticize that, but then their wives would beat them harder), and even with those two things, she still did quite well for herself. 

If they had anything more to go after her than the stories she was raised on, they would be using it right now.  Instead, Pocahontas is their best play.  

And it pisses off plenty of Native Americans against Trumpkins.  It is not lost on Native Americans that the Trumpkins are engaging in extremely thinly-veiled racism against Native Americans with the Pocahontas shit.  Oklahoma was a Democrat State less than 15 or so years ago, and Trump is trying to flip it back to D again.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

So much disingenuous bad faith on this page. 

[Incredulity 11532]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So much disingenuous bad faith on this page. 

Go ahead and post some of your “independent” research on the topic.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

Oh goodie... a personal attack.  The  singular, most important, sign of intelligence.

 

I didn't say you were ludicrous and mind-bogglingly stupid and ignorant. I said your argument is ludicrous and mind-bogglingly stupid and ignorant.

[Huckleberry 32685]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

“Trump does it so now it’s ok for my side.”

 

What are you talking about?

Also, learn to use the multi-quote button.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

How close to a perfect circle is the Venn diagram of those people who totally bought in to Trump's birther campaign against Obama and those who are totally outraged that Warren claimed Native American heritage?

Does anyone have a scanning ectron microscope they're not using? I think we might need it.