Elizabeth Warren 2020

[bad_teammate 13508]

We need a way to talk about this in the general that deactivates the working class hostility, such as it exists, to affirmative action in general and white elite educational institutions.

The way Warren talks about her working through motherhood does a great job of this, so finding a smooth pivot from NA embarrassment to that is a strategy. (Also, the way she talks about the labor movement.)

If she can be framed as an out of touch lib who lied to get affirmative action she's fucked. Fighting that frame is key.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

The elopement story isn't a new discovery.  I've heard it multiple times before.   And it doesn't add anything new to the issue, which is that her parents told her some shit that she and her brothers believed.   The only thing that would be new is if some evidence emerged that she sought an advantage on an application by falsely claiming legal status as a Native American.

[Biff Tannen 46163]

There could be a tape of Warren admitting to the camera that she lied about being Native American to take advantage of multiple government programs and education opportunities and it still wouldn't hold a candle to the atrocities of the dotard.  So fuck off with this bullshit.

[Celery Man 21094]

I figured we'd have to wait for Trump to try bringing up the Native American thing again.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

There could be a tape of Warren admitting to the camera that she lied about being Native American to take advantage of multiple government programs and education opportunities and it still wouldn't hold a candle to the atrocities of the dotard.  So fuck off with this bullshit.

While this is true and applies to the general election, it doesn’t apply to the primary.  BT is doing his best to attack every Warren weakness in a effort to prepare us for the viciousness that will be hurled at Warren from the right in the general.  

I’m okay with him doing it because by exposing us to it early, we become more inoculated to it.  It makes her campaign stronger.  The right seems to be keeping their powder dry on Warren at the moment.  Warren needs to be attacked more.  Although most of the attacks I’ve seen have been extremely weak tea when compared to Trump. 

I say bring it on.  However, I will laugh most of it off and ridicule you like I would any Trumpkin coming with the weak ass shit.  Don’t take it personally. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

While this is true and applies to the general election, it doesn’t apply to the primary.  BT is doing his best to attack every Warren weakness in a effort to prepare us for the viciousness that will be hurled at Warren from the right in the general.  

I’m okay with him doing it because by exposing us to it early, we become more inoculated to it.  It makes her campaign stronger.  The right seems to be keeping their powder dry on Warren at the moment.  Warren needs to be attacked more.  Although most of the attacks I’ve seen have been extremely weak tea when compared to Trump. 

I say bring it on.  However, I will laugh most of it off and ridicule you like I would any Trumpkin coming with the weak ass shit.  Don’t take it personally. 

Let's be clear.   Nobody is doing it to help Warren prepare.   It's coming from supporters of other candidates, mainly Biden and Bernie, who are trying to resurrect an issue they know is bullshit to try to halt her momentum.   But, as you say, it's fine.   The primary is an adversarial process, and dealing with bullshit issues raised over and over again by desperate opponents is part of the deal. 

[Hank Kingsley 21767]

D primaries usually have plenty of attack ads and candidates directly going after each other. This time around it looks like the supporters will do the dirty work on social media while the candidates play much nicer in public. We live in interesting times. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Let's be clear.   Nobody is doing it to help Warren prepare.   It's coming from supporters of other candidates, mainly Biden and Bernie, who are trying to resurrect an issue they know is bullshit to try to halt her momentum.   But, as you say, it's fine.   The primary is an adversarial process, and dealing with bullshit issues raised over and over again by desperate opponents is part of the deal. 

What?!?  They aren’t arguing in completely good faith?  No way.  

I was trying to make BT’s half bullshit argument about properly vetting before he did.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

9 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

D primaries usually have plenty of attack ads and candidates directly going after each other. This time around it looks like the supporters will do the dirty work on social media while the candidates play much nicer in public. We live in interesting times. 

I was reading some content about the 2008 primary and how nasty it got between Hillary and Obama.  It was so brutal that approximately a quarter of Hillary supporters were vocal about “not going to voting for Obama”.  Good thing Hillary and Obama were able to put aside their differences and unite the party for the greater good during the general. 

Anyway, this primary has been tame by comparison and don’t get me started on comparing to the political warfare that went on in the 2016 Republican Primary. Trump was coordinating with the National Enq. to run ludicrous conspiracy theories on his opponents and that was the light side of that darkness.

 

 

Warren’s refusal to go negative has helped too.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Bozo_Casanova 26846]

Posting videos of Warren talking = Republican talking points lol

Put that on the list with good plans for universal healthcare.

[Bozo_Casanova 26846]

Posting videos of Warren talking = Republican talking points lol

Put that on the list with good plans for universal healthcare.

[bad_teammate 13508]

Is the general election plan to also sit in a bunker and howl at the outside world about how mean and unfair it all is, lose, but feel morally superior as thousands suffer and die (but not you because you're going to be fine either way)?

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

There could be a tape of Warren admitting to the camera that she lied about being Native American to take advantage of multiple government programs and education opportunities and it still wouldn't hold a candle to the atrocities of the dotard.  So fuck off with this bullshit.

Let's make sure that we learn nothing from 2015/16. Like literally zero lessons.

I think that's going to finally destroy Donald Drumpf.

#Resist

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I still like my slogan idea of “I don’t play golf.” 

[henrygandorf 29225]

10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I still like my slogan idea of “I don’t play golf.” 

to be fair, i don’t think what trump does could be described as “golf” either. 

[horncyclist 1391]

That ad being out there is not new. It's covered in the Politifact summary on this. Her story has consistently been that she relied on family stories of Native American ancestry. Over time, she has come to recognize that it is wrong to rely on family lore -- even if genuinely held -- considering the history of Native Americans in our country and has apologized. That doesn't change that she had a genuinely held and important belief that her family had native ancestors. 

Warren’s ultimate explanation was she was drawing on family stories.

"As a kid, I never asked my mom about documentation when she talked about our Native American heritage," Warren said in a 2012 campaign ad. "What kid would? But I knew my father’s family didn’t like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware. So my parents had to elope."

Warren’s extended family offered a mixed take on those stories to Boston Globe reporters.  

Gloria Wysong, a cousin, said that her mother told her that the family's heritage "was Delaware, but the Delaware and Cherokee merged together."

And David Herring, Warren’s brother, said he grew up hearing, "Your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee."  

But other cousins had no such memories.

The main takeaway from the Globe’s reporting was that many who had Native American ties hid them, and documentation at the turn of the last century was spotty. In any event, any ties were so distant that they would not qualify her as minority by any official yardstick.

Warren herself didn’t trumpet this side of her family story. When applying to college and law school, records show that she either identified as white or declined to apply based on minority status.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/dec/01/facts-behind-elizabeth-warren-and-her-native-ameri/

My Dad's family is from Oklahoma and my grandmother told me similar stories growing up. She also told me--without evidence-- that we were "probably related to the Wright Brothers" because we had Wrights in our family. All of this is probably false, but that they were part of my families identity is true--and the same goes for Elisabeth Warren.

This is "Hillary's emails" attack against Warren and every democrat should be careful how they use it. 

[Underdog 29168]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:07 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Calling donors from a Waffle House.  She’s apparently a big fan of Waffle House. 

What a woman, even showed up at a Waffle House to celebrate Vic’s birthday. 

[bad_teammate 13508]

2 hours ago, horncyclist said:

Over time, she has come to recognize that it is wrong to rely on family lore -- even if genuinely held -- considering the history of Native Americans in our country and has apologized.

So let's say she believed everything at face value despite her other family members never identifying themselves as Native American (or did they?) and was ignorant of her family's true history (which is very normal, because no one goes down to the genealogical society at 17 to double-check PeePaw's stories).

- When did she begin officially identifying as Native American?
- How involved was she in Native American issues and movements? (i.e., was it just a journey of personal discovery thing or did she actually identify as part of a marginalized group so much so that she felt empathy towards them (like how Dolezal worked for the NAACP and such)?)
- When and why did she stop officially identifying as Native American?

Is this merely an embarrassing case of a dopey, credulous white woman going through some embarrassing identity-politics wokery in the 70s/80s? If so, that's a story we can tell and articulate in a way that isn't unconvincingly defensive. I could write a convincing speech on that premise with some charming, self-effacing humor that pivots to some kind of bold political agenda for Native people.

And if she was just dopey/credulous, is that something to worry about in terms of governance or is it just a personal foible?

Quote

My Dad's family is from Oklahoma and my grandmother told me similar stories growing up. She also told me--without evidence-- that we were "probably related to the Wright Brothers" because we had Wrights in our family. All of this is probably false, but that they were part of my families identity is true--and the same goes for Elisabeth Warren.

Did you ever identify yourself officially as Native American as a result of your family's stories? If not, why not?

The whole, "MY MOTHER SAID IT AND I BELIEVE MY MOM!" thing doesn't ring true of how 99% of white people deal with their family saying, "Your great-great-great-grandma boned an Injun chief on the back of a buffalo." The most reaction you get out of the rest of us is, "Oh cool anyway what time is the game on?", but Liz went buck wild with it. Did anyone else in her family?

Quote

This is "Hillary's emails" attack against Warren and every democrat should be careful how they use it. 

The problem with your analogy here is that Hillary actually shouldn't have had that private server and she is absolutely a profoundly corrupt monster. I think it would be good to distance Liz (very good, very smart, great heart) as much as possible from Hillary (very bad, no good, nasty woman).

Also, get someone other than Kate McKinnon to play Liz on SNL please.

[bad_teammate 13508]

If laughing at candidates makes you angry do not click this spoiler

It's cool, she's 1/1024th

[horncyclist 1391]

BT, I don't have time to go through everything in your post this morning and don't want to engage a baseless and bad faith attack in line with Birtherism and emails. I just wanted to add that one other consideration is that she came from a working class background to enter the elitest circles in the US. As someone who has done it, the imposter syndrome and other insecurities make you do stupid things to try to relate to people.I lied about stupid stuff like playing football when I didn't for reasons I still can't explain today. 

[bad_teammate 13508]

I don't think we disagree at all about the explanation for why she did it.

I think the only disagreement is that you think ignoring it will make it disappear and I think owning it and talking about it openly is how to disarm it.

[horncyclist 1391]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't think we disagree at all about the explanation for why she did it.

I think the only disagreement is that you think ignoring it will make it disappear and I think owning it and talking about it openly is how to disarm it.

I think she has. No point in continuing to talk about it. There has been nothing new since the DNA test. By elevating it to an issue that she had to address repeatedly, you're doing exactly what Trump wants.

[Hank Kingsley 21767]

[henrygandorf 29225]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't think we disagree at all about the explanation for why she did it.

I think the only disagreement is that you think ignoring it will make it disappear and I think owning it and talking about it openly is how to disarm it.

nothing we do or say will disarm any bullshit 4th grader strategy that trump has planned.

[bad_teammate 13508]

29 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

nothing we do or say will disarm any bullshit 4th grader strategy that trump has planned.

It won't stop him from trying, but when I'm knocking doors in October it would be really nice to have some convincing talking points. This has nothing to do with Trump, really, but instead it has to do with allaying the fears and negative feelings of swings and non-voters.

We can't keep him from attacking, but we can have a good defense for when he does.

Or not, I guess.

[henrygandorf 29225]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It won't stop him from trying, but when I'm knocking doors in October it would be really nice to have some convincing talking points. This has nothing to do with Trump, really, but instead it has to do with allaying the fears and negative feelings of swings and non-voters.

We can't keep him from attacking, but we can have a good defense for when he does.

Or not, I guess.

you're not wrong.  it's just gotten to the point of lowering the level of discourse in this country.  you're thinking about it in a much more historically accurate, sophisticated, "let's treat this like people have brains" type of way.

as we've seen time and time again, trump will use anything and everything, truth or fiction, active or disarmed, theory or conspiracy theory, plus whatever pops into his head at the time.

if there's a voter out there saying/thinking, "well, i like her ok, but the whole native american thing really killed her chances in my eyes" then just try your best to see god in everyone, and walk away.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

We need some tasteless and unfunny Indian memes in this thread.  Because that’s MAGA’s best ammunition against Elizabeth Warren.

[bad_teammate 13508]

There is a huge swath of available voters who are neither woke libs nor MAGA CHUDs.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

It’s been over a year since I decided to stop supporting President Trump and join the Democratic Party. I have also decided to support Elizabeth Warren in the Democratic primaries. To this day, I am still asked why I made the transition — and I feel that I need to explain why.

I was a conservative activist and writer for a couple of years prior to the 2016 election. I decided to do this because I felt threatened by Democrats, and I believed that they wanted to take our rights away — rights like freedom of religion, and speech. I believed Islam was a religion of terror. I believed Democrats wanted to destroy the sanctity of marriage. I had a myopic view of the second amendment, without seeing its full context. I condemned socialism and abortion. I wanted a wall to stop immigrants from “invading” America.

I was originally a Ted Cruz supporter, but when the conservative media I consumed started teaching me to hate Hillary Clinton, I decided to vote for Donald Trump. At the time, I didn’t realize who Trump really was.

Trump wanted the same things I wanted, so I thought he was an easy choice for President of the United States. I really believed Trump was a patriotic, successful businessman, who cared about all Americans, and that sold me on voting for him. I was aware he wasn’t a saint, but I felt no one is perfect and anyway, conservative news networks kept calling Hillary a criminal.

So how did I end up changing my mind?

After a couple of years of defending Trump and calling media that portrayed him in a bad light “fake news” — which was a thing before Trump — I had a conversation that changed my approach on social media. I realized I had always been aggressive and mean. I wanted to force my views on people. There was never a debate — I used insults and ad hominem attacks. 

These tactics didn’t get me anywhere. Comedian Sarah Silverman actually reached out to me after I attacked her comedy online. Sarah used kindness, which was not expected, and she got my attention. I asked why she didn’t like Trump and she told me why without any arguments. I felt that if this progressive, very liberal celebrity is willing to talk to me about Trump, maybe I can find out why liberals believe in the things they do.  

As I began conversing with Silverman, other people began reaching out to me. I started learning more about Democratic values and people. In many ways, it was shocking.

As this was going on, Trump supporters who knew me saw this and called me out, saying I was a traitor, a sellout, a Dem plant, a fraud — which surprised me because I thought they were friends. People I had once connected with ended up blocking me.

The insults continue to this day, but when it happened during that initial learning period, it snapped me out of my MAGA trance. I saw how Trump thrives on this behavior, and that’s when I decided to no longer be part of MAGA. 

I still supported Trump because of who I thought he was — but then the Helsinki meeting with Putin came. I saw how he, the President of the United States, made himself vulnerable to Putin and Russia, agreeing to closed-door meetings and being recorded by our adversaries. What kind of president would do such a thing? When I saw someone tweeted a clip of the debate between Hillary Clinton and Trump where she called Trump a puppet of Putin, I was stunned. I now believe she was right. This is not the guy who I voted for, and yet it is. 

That was the moment when I decided I was no longer a Trump supporter. I went back over years of his corruption, lies and draft-dodging. My whole world was turned upside-down.

I have been on two separate journeys: one wherein I ended my support of Trump, and another, separate journey wherein I became a Democrat. No, Sarah Silverman did not get me to stop backing Trump or become a Democrat. What she did was inspire me to talk to other people who had different views to mine. She accepted me for being a Trump supporter and that’s what brought down my wall of hate and closed mind. 

I maintained a myopic view on the right to bear arms, and believed that Democrats want to take all of your guns — but I’ve learned from the conversations I’ve had since that that’s far from true. I learned that while the second amendment states that we have the right to bear arms, it should be within the confines of a well-regulated militia. The history of an AR-15 makes it clear that it was meant to be a weapon of war. There’s no reason why a civilian should own weapons that are only meant for combat. 

I also learned that seeking asylum is a human right, and that immigrants who are fleeing for their lives deserve it. Yet, the Trump administration is inhumanely violating this right by separating families at the border.

Free speech applies to all Americans, even if we do not agree with what they’re saying or protesting for. I’ve learned what Kaepernick was kneeling for, and it was to bring awareness to police brutality against the black community. You will never hear about that in conservative media. 

 I learned the truth about President Obama, Hillary Clinton and other top Democrats. I have learned of all the good they have done for our country. They are not twisted, evil people who wanted to destroy America from the inside. All they wanted to do was to help move our country forward. 

Barack Obama constantly talked about empathy, the need for us to put ourselves in other people’s shoes. My journey is ongoing. I’ve learned what Islam is really about and all the good Muslims have done for America. They have served our country, and they are not antisemites. Islam is similar to Judaism and Christianity, which teaches about a loving God as well as the importance of loving our fellow man.

As the 2020 election draws near, I have decided to vote for Senator Elizabeth Warren. I appreciate her empathy for people of color and women, because their voices are often ignored. I support her because she has a similar background as I did, being that she was originally conservative and she’s now a liberal. I feel she is the strongest leader in the Democratic Party and can take on Trump. 

Do I agree with all of her policies? Absolutely not. For example, I don’t agree with Medicare-for-All. I believe people should have the right to choose their provider and to choose if they want to be insured or not. But even with my disagreements, I believe she is the most put-together candidate to move our country forward.

[Biff Tannen 46163]

After the first couple of paragraphs I realized he is just a fucking moron. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

After the first couple of paragraphs I realized he is just a fucking moron. 

Well yeah but at least he’s out there trying.  

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[bad_teammate 13508]

I don't believe that article. Robots don't have feelings.

[GRHorn 105]

28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Antagonizing Zuck is net positive. 

[Js1 87176]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't believe that article. Robots don't have feelings.

[Fozzz 152]

Pathetic.  She's to the right of Obama.  

 

[Mapache 1117]

 

[bad_teammate 13508]

1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

Pathetic.  She's to the right of Obama.  

 

This completely sucks and Israel will continue brutal, murderous apartheid without even a furrowed brow from a President Warren administration.

[triplehorn 2664]

3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Antagonizing Zuck is net positive. 

 

[DixonHur 11959]

4 hours ago, Fozzz said:

Pathetic.  She's to the right of Obama.  

 

How is she to the right of Obama?  88 Senators signed the letter, and when you read it, and the resolution, it makes perfect sense..  The resolution had fewer teeth than a House subpoena...there were no sanctions, or any other punishments.  It was literally just a strongly worded letter. 

At the time, the US was leading peace talks between Israel and the Palestinian state, so what would the US have to gained from seeming to take sides?  I think abstaining was the right move.

[texastough 1142]

how do you not have fozz on ignore yet and why on earth are you feeding him?

[Fozzz 152]

7 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

How is she to the right of Obama?  88 Senators signed the letter, and when you read it, and the resolution, it makes perfect sense..  The resolution had fewer teeth than a House subpoena...there were no sanctions, or any other punishments.  It was literally just a strongly worded letter. 

At the time, the US was leading peace talks between Israel and the Palestinian state, so what would the US have to gained from seeming to take sides?  I think abstaining was the right move.

lol bro do you know anything about this issue?  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[bad_teammate 13508]

Yes, ignore everyone who actually brings up substantive, meaningful things to talk about.

We should only talk about Twitter fanbases and how they make us feel.

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

How is she to the right of Obama?  88 Senators signed the letter, and when you read it, and the resolution, it makes perfect sense..  The resolution had fewer teeth than a House subpoena...there were no sanctions, or any other punishments.  It was literally just a strongly worded letter.

Yes it makes perfect sense to say we should say and do nothing about Israel's murderous and brutal apartheid regime and that we should stand in open opposition against the entire rest of the world who wants to tell Israel to stop murdering masses of people and stealing their land.

"One-sided UNSC resolution" literally means "everyone in the world agrees except Israel and the US".

The UNSC resolution in question:

14 voted to condemn Israel

1 abstained (US)

"one-sided"

Absolutely pathetic.

Quote

At the time, the US was leading peace talks between Israel and the Palestinian state, so what would the US have to gained from seeming to take sides?  I think abstaining was the right move.

Wouldn't want to take side when a powerful military backed by the most powerful military in the world is mass-murdering civilians and stealing their land.

#BothSides

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Fozzz 152]

Someone should ask Warren why centralization is so endemic.  She would surely find some way to shoehorn her bête noire "corruption" into her response given that she passionately supports the true culprit.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

NEW PLAN:

[Mojo Hand 4580]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Biden’s support among black voters is not even in the same ballpark at this point in the race as Hillary had in both 2008 and 2016.  

Also, I’ve never seen media coverage focus so much on South Carolina in a primary this early in the race.  It’s usually Iowa and only Iowa that gets all the attention.