Elizabeth Warren 2020

[wildcat09 29579]

29 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This is retarded.  Gates has committed to giving away the vast majority of the wealth he amassed in the course of basically fundamentally reshaping almost every aspect of the modern world. Judge the man on his actions, not his bank account.  

Gates is quite literally the best example if you want to point to the good that philanthropists can do, but there's a good argument to be made that allowing anyone to amass the type of wealth that enables the level of philanthropy that Gates has contributed makes things worse even after accounting for that philanthropy.  

[bad_teammate 13511]

2 hours ago, hornhorn said:

LOL. One could say the same about you and Sanders/Warren/AOC/any other dumbass that's trotted up as the champion of American "poor". Yep, poor in quotations. 

Yes, I am a huge fan of Sanders, Warren, and AOC. I am a huge fan of champions of working people and the poor. I am very happy to admit it. Not only am I an unpaid advocate of theirs, I have donated my own money to all three of them (and many other progressive dumbasses) besides and, in the case of Bernard, I am spending time phonebanking and canvassing in addition to donating money.

It's awesome and cool to have good values and beliefs. You should jump in it feels great.

[hornhorn 100]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, I am a huge fan of Sanders, Warren, and AOC. I am a huge fan of champions of working people and the poor. I am very happy to admit it. Not only am I an unpaid advocate of theirs, I have donated my own money to all three of them (and many other progressive dumbasses) besides and, in the case of Bernard, I am spending time phonebanking and canvassing in addition to donating money.

It's awesome and cool to have good values and beliefs. You should jump in it feels great.

We know you're a sucker. I just wanted you to reiterate that so YOU understand what a PR machine sounds like that you accused me of. 

And LOL on good values and beliefs. 

[Anastasis 23717]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Gates is quite literally the best example if you want to point to the good that philanthropists can do, but there's a good argument to be made that allowing anyone to amass the type of wealth that enables the level of philanthropy that Gates has contributed makes things worse even after accounting for that philanthropy.  

Can you provide a list of direct and tangible negative things that Gates has personally contributed to the world that outweighs the work his foundation has done in global health.  Cause there are lots of tangible examples of the latter.  

[bad_teammate 13511]

Bill Gates's "philanthropic" work is responsible for the destruction of public school systems nationwide, the adoption of wasteful and destructive charter schools, and the shifting of traditional education onto screens, which is terrible for kids and schools alike.

The only reason his "philanthropy" is helpful is because of economic inequality where his lucre is used for good. Every dollar a billionaire spends on charity would be better used by the people in the communities affected by whatever malady that drew the billionaire's eye.

[Dahobbs 18317]

1 hour ago, hornhorn said:

Moving goalposts. 

This was Gates vs. the names I mentioned now you're including MLK? Gandhi possibly? 

Point still stands, Gates has done more than any of the dolts you worship. And yes, what you and other rally attendees do is worship, not me. 

I'm confused about your obsession with using Gates. You realize that he is in favor of higher taxes on the wealthy? He hasn't even directly said he is opposed to Warren's plan, but rather that he would have to think about it more. He basically said he was in favor of something higher than today, but maybe less than Warren's proposal. 

I will add: I continue to believe that bt is a zealot, and that zealotry is just as terrifying as some of the things Trump et al. have done.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Dahobbs

[hornhorn 100]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm confused about your obsession with using Gates. You realize that he is in favor of higher taxes on the wealthy? He hasn't even directly said he is opposed to Warren's plan, but rather that he would have to think about it more. He basically said he was in favor of something higher than today, but maybe less than Warren's proposal. 

You should follow the thread as to why Gates was brought up. I didn't and I don't dispute anything you said here. 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

27 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I suppose that you judge the actions and character of poor people based on their bank accounts as well.

 

So hard to keep track of who has the fucked up moral compass. 

 

That makes absolutely no sense. Do better.

[mdmost 44008]

[BradInATX 9208]

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Can you provide a list of direct and tangible negative things that Gates has personally contributed to the world that outweighs the work his foundation has done in global health.  Cause there are lots of tangible examples of the latter.  

There are about $107.5 billion of them sitting in his bank account (or investments). Tangible dollars that are being hoarded by a wealthy elite that the millions of people in need could actually use. Dollars that serve him absolutely no purpose sitting in his accounts. 

There is no reason for someone to have $108 billion. None. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by BradInATX

[GSU&UT 1799]

For everyone one of you who bitches about BT being too extreme, are you just dumb as hell or completely ignorant of how much wealth inequality there is in this country and how it's continually getting worse? Like this shit is going to lead to pitchforks at some point, it is not sustainable.

 

[bad_teammate 13511]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

He hasn't even directly said he is opposed to Warren's plan, but rather that he would have to think about it more. He basically said he was in favor of something higher than today, but maybe less than Warren's proposal. 

He characterized Warren's proposal as taking $100B from when the reality is that her proposal takes <$10B from him. And in doing so, floated that he just might vote for genocidal fascism to make sure the thing that isn't even being proposed doesn't happen.

That kind of mischaracterization is obvious, and let's not pretend this supposed genius is too dumb to realize what he's doing.

[Dahobbs 18317]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

For everyone one of you who bitches about BT being too extreme, are you just dumb as hell or completely ignorant of how much wealth inequality there is in this country and how it's continually getting worse? Like this shit is going to lead to pitchforks at some point, it is not sustainable.

 

Both of these things can be true. 

[bad_teammate 13511]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

There are about $107.5 billion of them sitting in his bank account (or investments). Tangible dollars that are being hoarded by a wealthy elite that the millions of people in need could actually use. Dollars that serve him absolutely no purpose sitting in his accounts. 

There is no reason for someone to have $108 billion. None. 

Yes, from a simple utility standpoint, a billionaire is a waste of resources.

Working class people put basically 100% of their money back into the economy about as fast as they get their hands on it. In fact, given a negative savings rate, working class people put MORE than 100% of their wealth back into the economy.

Philanthropy is just evidence of waste.

[GSU&UT 1799]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Both of these things can be true. 

Not really if you pay attention at all to the ideas and politicians that Millennials and Zoomers support.

[BradInATX 9208]

Also, outside of the whole wealth inequality thing, it's well-known that Gates was a complete piece of shit in the business world. Predatory and Machiavellian. He sucks in every way possible. I realize that he's the shining beacon on the hill for the nutjob Libertarians and racist Trumpers who talk out of both sides of their mouth by wanting to Darwin all poor and colored people while also saying "the church and Bill Gates will take care of them!", but of course that's an idiotic stance. Then again you guys voted for Trump so we already know you idolize complete pieces of trash.

Edited November 7, 2019 by BradInATX

[Anastasis 23717]

10 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

That makes absolutely no sense. Do better.

You: I can tell by his bank account his moral character. 

Me: Let's generalize this across the spectrum of bank accounts balances.

You: I am a dumbass. 

[hornhorn 100]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, from a simple utility standpoint, a billionaire is a waste of resources.

Working class people put basically 100% of their money back into the economy about as fast as they get their hands on it. In fact, given a negative savings rate, working class people put MORE than 100% of their wealth back into the economy.

Philanthropy is just evidence of waste.

From a simple utility standpoint, you typing away in your air conditioned office/home is a waste of resources. 

Society should put you to work that actually benefits them. 

The fact that all the things you complain about still exist is just the evidence of that waste. 

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

You: I can tell by his bank account his moral character. 

Me: Let's generalize this across the spectrum of bank accounts balances.

You: I am a dumbass. 

Me: "Hoarding money that you have absolutely no use for is morally bankrupt"

You: "Poor people non-sequitir!!"

You should have just yelled "squirrel!"

Edited November 7, 2019 by BradInATX

[Dahobbs 18317]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Not really if you pay attention at all to the ideas and politicians that Millennials and Zoomers support.

I dont understand what you mean. Bt can be too extreme (in general, I'm not speaking as to any specific idea), and so can current wealth inequality. And both are in fact true. Wealth inequality at the level we have is not healthy and will result in revolution sooner or later. However, embracing zealotry like bt will in order to solve the former just replaces one ill with another. 

[GSU&UT 1799]

1 minute ago, hornhorn said:

From a simple utility standpoint, you typing away in your air conditioned office/home is a waste of resources. 

Society should put you to work that actually benefits them. 

The fact that all the things you complain about still exist is just the evidence of that waste. 

[Anastasis 23717]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Me: "Hoarding money that you have absolutely no use for is morally bankrupt"

You: "Poor people!!"

You should have just yelled "squirrel!"

You are the one who suggested that you could judge the character of a person by their bank account balance. 

[hornhorn 100]

Just now, GSU&UT said:

[GSU&UT 1799]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I dont understand what you mean. Bt can be too extreme (in general, I'm not speaking as to any specific idea), and so can current wealth inequality. And both are in fact true. Wealth inequality at the level we have is not healthy and will result in revolution sooner or later. However, embracing zealotry like bt will in order to solve the former just replaces one ill with another. 

The zealotry that you claim he has is something that is shared among a lot of young people in this country, especially those who aren't white (millennials are the most diverse group and zoomers probably will exceed that). The idea that we should prevent anyone from earning a billion dollars in this country is not an extreme view of people I know who are around my age (mid-30s and younger).

This board's average age is probably in the low 50s, there is a noticeable difference even among Democrats here in comparison to other boards I post on where the average age is closer to mine.

Edited November 7, 2019 by GSU&UT

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You are the one who suggested that you could judge the character of a person by their bank account balance. 

You can. If they have a billion dollars in it, they're an asshole.

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

The zealotry that you claim he has is something that is shared among most young people in this country, especially those who aren't white (millennials are the most diverse group and zoomers probably will exceed that). The idea that we should prevent anyone from earning a billion dollars in this country is not an extreme view of people I know who are around my age (mid-30s and younger).

This board's average age is probably in the low 50s, there is a noticeable difference even among Democrats here in comparison to other boards I post on where the average age is closer to mine.

We need zealotry and rage when it comes to the fact that we're approaching a second gilded age. Change is not going to be given by the ruling class, it will have to be taken. 

I hope the millennials and gen z and minorities/the oppressed of all ages get even more angry. They should. I hope they start fucking some shit up. Complacency is what got us to where we are today.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by BradInATX

[Dahobbs 18317]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

The zealotry that you claim he has is something that is shared among most young people in this country, especially those who aren't white (millennials are the most diverse group and zoomers probably will exceed that). The idea that we should prevent anyone from earning a billion dollars in this country is not an extreme view of people I know who are around my age (mid-30s and younger).

This board's average age is probably in the low 50s, there is a noticeable difference even among Democrats here in comparison to other boards I post on where the average age is closer to mine.

Again, read my fucking posts. I agree with the specific idea you are talking about. Bt isnt a zealot because of that one idea, but because he cannot acknowledge that any position other than his own can ever be valid. It is consistent across all his postings. I agree with him on some topics. I disagree on others. And for some I believe his position has merit, but must be moderated because other positions do as well. I am his enemy because of that (he has said so previously). That kind of thinking is dangerous. 

[bad_teammate 13511]

Anastasis and HornHorn bringing some big "And yet you LIVE in a society!" energy right now.

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

We need zealotry and rage when it comes to the fact that we're approaching a second gilded age. Change is not going to be given by the ruling class, it will have to be taken. 

I hope the millennials and gen z and minorities/the oppressed of all ages get even more angry. They should. I hope they start fucking some shit up. Complacency is what got us to where we are today.

*looks at username*

*looks at these fucking awesome posts*

[Anastasis 23717]

8 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You can. If they have a billion dollars in it, they're an asshole.

Arbitrary thresholds are arbitrary.  Why not draw the line at 500k? Or 100k? Or the median bank account balance of $5k?

[Anastasis 23717]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Anastasis and HornHorn bringing some big "And yet you LIVE in a society!" energy right now.

 

Posters bringing the "moral character judgement should be based on bank account balance" energy right now. 

[bad_teammate 13511]

Bill Gates had a closer relationship with Jeffrey Epstein than he admitted, The New York Times reports

-----------------------------------

The paper’s reporting shows that Gates met with Epstein “numerous times,” including at least three times at Epstein’s townhouse. “His lifestyle is very different and kind of intriguing although it would not work for me,” Gates wrote in a 2011 email to colleagues. His spokeswoman says he was “referring only to the unique décor of the Epstein residence.”

...

In 2011, Gates instructed a team to meet Epstein at his townhouse to discuss philanthropic fundraising, The New York Times reports. Epstein told the people there that his conviction for soliciting prostitution from an underage girl was no worse than “stealing a bagel,” according to two people who were there.

The two remained in contact, and at one point in 2013, Gates flew on Epstein’s jet from New Jersey to Palm Beach, Florida, according to a flight manifest. Gates’ spokeswoman claims Gates, who owns his own private jet, didn’t know it was Epstein’s plane. Though the relationship between Gates and Epstein apparently cooled off after 2014, the Gates Foundation remained in contact with Epstein through 2017.

------------------------------------------

It's so hard to keep all the child rape planes straight! I know I have a terrible time with it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

To be fair, Epstein was a philanthropist too. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Arbitrary thresholds are arbitrary.  Why not draw the line at 500k? Or 100k? Or the median bank account balance of $5k?

I don't know where the line between "rich" and "hoarding money your family can never spend in a million years" is. But I know it's less than a billion dollars.

[Incredulity 11876]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Arbitrary thresholds are arbitrary.  Why not draw the line at 500k? Or 100k? Or the median bank account balance of $5k?

I don't know where the line between "rich" and "hoarding money your family can never spend in a million years" is. But I know it's less than a billion dollars.

It’s really a moving target depending on what other government spending needs to happen to right all wrongs. Amirite?

[Incredulity 11876]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Arbitrary thresholds are arbitrary.  Why not draw the line at 500k? Or 100k? Or the median bank account balance of $5k?

I don't know where the line between "rich" and "hoarding money your family can never spend in a million years" is. But I know it's less than a billion dollars.

It’s really a moving target depending on what other government spending needs to happen to right all wrongs. Amirite?

[BradInATX 9208]

It’s really a moving target depending on what other government spending needs to happen to right all wrongs. Amirite?

I don't know where the line between "being terrible to our fellow human beings" and "being a government tax and spend nanny state" is, but it's above letting poor people die unnecessarily because they're poor. It's above Americans not having access to clean water. It's above putting children in cages. It's above you and your people.

[Incredulity 11876]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

It’s really a moving target depending on what other government spending needs to happen to right all wrongs. Amirite?

I don't know where the line between "being terrible to our fellow human beings" and "being a government tax and spend nanny state" is, but it's above letting poor people die unnecessarily because they're poor. It's above Americans not having access to clean water. It's above putting children in cages. It's above you and your people.

I’ll give you a hint, it will never be enough.  The government will never have enough money or provide enough services to stop poor people from dying unnecessarily.  

Venezuela out front shoulda told ya.

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

I’ll give you a hint, it will never be enough.  The government will never have enough money or provide enough services to stop poor people from dying unnecessarily.  
Venezuela out front shoulda told ya.
 
 

I guess we should stop trying, then.

[F250 29199]

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[bad_teammate 13511]

19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Bernie & Liz: Good

Everyone Else: Fuck the fuck offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[F250 29199]

Warren and Bernie are eventually going to have to pull out the knives and fight each other or one will need to bow out of the race and throw their support behind the other. Splitting the progressive vote leaves the primary race to Biden or possibly Buttigieg if Biden eventually strokes out.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 hours ago, F250 said:

Warren and Bernie are eventually going to have to pull out the knives and fight each other or one will need to bow out of the race and throw their support behind the other. Splitting the progressive vote leaves the primary race to Biden or possibly Buttigieg if Biden eventually strokes out.

Bernie is already throwing some jabs at her plan.   Warren isn’t just splitting the progressive vote with Bernie either.  She’s polling as the top second choice among all the other top candidates.  Warren’s ceiling has yet to be really determined.  Bernie hasn’t moved the needle in polling anywhere beyond when he started.  

Bernie may have to go negative against Warren like everyone else if he wants to win.  Warren doesn’t have to attack anyone until someone convincingly overtakes her. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[hornhorn 100]

16 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Bill Gates had a closer relationship with Jeffrey Epstein than he admitted, The New York Times reports

-----------------------------------

The paper’s reporting shows that Gates met with Epstein “numerous times,” including at least three times at Epstein’s townhouse. “His lifestyle is very different and kind of intriguing although it would not work for me,” Gates wrote in a 2011 email to colleagues. His spokeswoman says he was “referring only to the unique décor of the Epstein residence.”

...

In 2011, Gates instructed a team to meet Epstein at his townhouse to discuss philanthropic fundraising, The New York Times reports. Epstein told the people there that his conviction for soliciting prostitution from an underage girl was no worse than “stealing a bagel,” according to two people who were there.

The two remained in contact, and at one point in 2013, Gates flew on Epstein’s jet from New Jersey to Palm Beach, Florida, according to a flight manifest. Gates’ spokeswoman claims Gates, who owns his own private jet, didn’t know it was Epstein’s plane. Though the relationship between Gates and Epstein apparently cooled off after 2014, the Gates Foundation remained in contact with Epstein through 2017.

------------------------------------------

It's so hard to keep all the child rape planes straight! I know I have a terrible time with it.

Also, Bill Gates: eliminates polio from several countries in Africa.

Warren/Sanders/AOC combined: The one puh-cent!!!!!!!!

[Pig Bellmont 8885]

23 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Also, Bill Gates: eliminates polio from several countries in Africa.

Warren/Sanders/AOC combined: The one puh-cent!!!!!!!!

I’m sorry, what’s your point? 

[GSU&UT 1799]

Yep, we should be reliant upon the generosity of billionaires to solve our health crises, not actual funding of the NSF/NIH and other non-profit entities.

[bad_teammate 13511]

10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bernie is already throwing some jabs at her plan.

[citation needed]

37 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Also, Bill Gates: eliminates polio from several countries in Africa.

First of all, this is absurdly hyperbolic savior talk that isn't accurate in basically any way.

Secondly, why was/is there a polio problem in the first place?

Nigeria was literally in debt from trying to fight polio. Our global monetary system is so exploitative and unequal that Nigeria had to borrow money to fight polio. Without the exploitative billionaire class, many problems that need solving wouldn't have existed in the first place. It's like the person who shot you removing the bullet and patching you up.

[bad_teammate 13511]

Just now, GSU&UT said:

Yep, we should be reliant upon the generosity of billionaires to solve our health crises, not actual funding of the NSF/NIH and other non-profit entities.

Or even before that, not robbing the developing world blind via the IMF and other agencies and "free trade" such that they cannot even afford to properly plumb/heat/electrify their towns, cities, and villages.

[hornhorn 100]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Or even before that, not robbing the developing world blind via the IMF and other agencies and "free trade" such that they cannot even afford to properly plumb/heat/electrify their towns, cities, and villages.

Or have a time machine to fix all those problems. So I guess we'll add that to the Progressive Dems wish list: 52 trillion dollars all from someone else and not me, infinity and time machine. 

Got it.