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The Southern Baptist Convention's woes

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Rimbo

Rimbo 26140

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Outstanding article from this week's issue of The Economist.

 

Spoiler

LexingtonThe Southern Baptists are beset by two related fiascos

Sex scandals. And Donald Trump

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20190615_USD000_0.jpgForty years ago in Houston, Texas, a group of conservative pastors pulled off a heist at the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention that reshaped both America’s biggest Protestant denomination and its national politics. Liberal Baptists, who had dared question the literal truth of the Genesis myth, were denied leadership positions and, in due course, driven out. “Biblical inerrancy” was the conservatives’ war-cry.

Within months they had joined battle in the culture and political wars, too. The Southern Baptists’ hitherto nuanced position on abortion—they would allow it whenever a woman’s well-being was in question—became one of implacable opposition. And the next year the convention’s president, Adrian Rogers, was among a throng of Southern Baptists around Ronald Reagan as he uttered the line that sealed the bond between Republicans and the religious right: “I know you can’t endorse me, but I endorse you.”

This week in Birmingham, Alabama, Mr Rogers’s 46-year-old successor, J.D. Greear, one of the youngest men to lead the denomination, attempted a more cautious reorientation. “We are at a defining moment regarding the future of our convention,” he told a vast audience of “messengers” from its 47,000 churches.

That was an understatement. The confidence that fuelled the 1979 resurgence is long gone. The convention’s membership of 15m, concentrated in the Bible belt, is its lowest in 30 years, and falling. Half of Southern Baptist children leave the faith; annual baptisms—which reached a high in the mid-1970s, when the moderates were ascendant—are at their lowest level in almost a century. Worse, the convention is gripped by two mutually reinforcing crises that are both illuminating and accentuating its decline.

The first is a split over Donald Trump far more rancorous and damaging than most non-evangelicals appreciate. At last year’s confab, in Dallas, Mike Pence made headlines by giving a jarringly self-congratulatory speech. Less remarked on was the fact that around 40% of his audience had voted to bar the vice-president from speaking at all. The second crisis is a slew of sexual-abuse scandals that have made what is still the biggest Protestant denomination appear as unsafe for children as the Catholic church.

Recent investigations by the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News found that over the past two decades nearly 400 Southern Baptist officials, including several well-known pastors, had been credibly accused or convicted of abuse. These twin crises are not merely bad in themselves. They also appear to have flipped how many Southern Baptists look on their decline, turning an attitude of righteous stoicism into something closer to panic.

Though the revivalist hopes that attended the conservative resurgence were long ago dispelled, its enduring combination of fundamentalism and politicisation gave Southern Baptists two sorts of comfort. From the former, a hardened conviction of being heaven-bound even if the rest of society was going south; from the latter, the significant boon of presidential power every other cycle. Today’s crises have whipped both comfort blankets away.

Most obviously, revelations that hundreds of women and children were abused in church camps and Sunday schools—and often cruelly suppressed when they tried to protest—have made it harder for Southern Baptists to find solace in their own holiness. Especially as the revelations point to something worse than a few bad apples: they are an indictment of the institutionalised male chauvinism that the conservative resurgence helped cement.

Even before the scandals broke, leading evangelical women such as Beth Moore were straining against the doctrine of “complementarianism” (a hoary idea of gender difference that gives men the whip-hand in the home and bars women from preaching). The impunity that hundreds of powerful male abusers long enjoyed has made this seem even less supportable—especially as leading complementarianists, such as Paige Patterson, an architect of the resurgence, were among those tainted by the scandals. “Did we win confessional integrity only to sacrifice our moral integrity?” asked another conservative, Albert Mohler, as the first wave of revelations broke last year. “This is exactly what those who opposed the conservative resurgence warned would happen.”

The damaging effect of this on the convention’s ability to evangelise—in theory, its core mission—is obvious. It has also highlighted the pre-existing damage done by politicisation, which has made the Southern Baptists largely unacceptable to half of America. And their contentious embrace of Mr Trump has made that situation even worse, by alienating the younger and non-white evangelicals they must recruit merely to tread water. Mr Greear, a conservative theologian with the relatively moderate outlook of his native North Carolina, has made increasing diversity in the convention a priority. Yet Mr Trump’s election, he acknowledges, has driven a “quiet exodus” of blacks from its churches.

He is at least trying to confront both crises. This week he backed a change to the convention’s rule-book that will make it easier to expel any church that fails to respond satisfactorily to allegations of abuse. A guarded critic of Mr Pence’s speech last year, he also warned against cheerleading for Mr Trump. By the convention’s recent standards this is progress, albeit insufficient.

Judge not...

It is unclear how much influence Mr Greear wields over the convention’s disparate parts. It is also not obvious how, in practical terms, he can expect to wean his brethren off party politics without revising the tenets of the 1979 resurgence, which he claims to support. So long as Southern Baptists put fighting abortion and gay rights before the acts of grace and social justice they once gave equal billing to, they have only one party to support: the Republicans, whose shrinking, white coalition is the future they are trying to escape. Mr Greear can clearly see that looming cliff-edge. He just cannot bring himself to hit the brake.◼

This article appeared in the United States section of the print edition under the headline"On the edge"

 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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16 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

As someone who was raised in the Southern Baptist Church...that's a shame.

 

My dad is still a hardcore fundamentalist "evangelical" southern baptist. Growing up and finally leaving, it really soured me on just all christianity as a whole.

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Jiggy-Z

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3 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

My dad is still a hardcore fundamentalist "evangelical" southern baptist. Growing up and finally leaving, it really soured me on just all christianity as a whole.

I grew up catholic.  I feel your pain, only not as much since we can drink, and I did, a lot, especially lately.  Thought and prayer,s I guess?

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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2 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I grew up catholic.  I feel your pain, only not as much since we can drink, and I did, a lot, especially lately.  Thought and prayer,s I guess?

Of course my dad drank too like all hypocritical Southern Baptists, but didn't drink to excess. I guess it's a very old joke, but the funniest joke I read on Shaggy was,

 

Why should you always take two Baptists fishing?

If you take just one Baptist, he'll drink all your beer

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RDCanecutter

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35 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

My dad is still a hardcore fundamentalist "evangelical" southern baptist. Growing up and finally leaving, it really soured me on just all christianity as a whole.

I bet if I put you in a room with drop ceilings, AC on high, the smell of new carpet, and then cranked up the first verse  of "Old Rugged Cross," that you'd shed a tear and ask where the deviled eggs are.

Edited by RDCanecutter
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formermav43

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58 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Of course my dad drank too like all hypocritical Southern Baptists, but didn't drink to excess. I guess it's a very old joke, but the funniest joke I read on Shaggy was,

 

Why should you always take two Baptists fishing?

If you take just one Baptist, he'll drink all your beer

My favorite along this line is what’s the difference between a Methodist and a Baptist?

The Methodist will speak to you in the liquor store.

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

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34 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I bet if I put you in a room with drop ceilings, AC on high, the smell of new carpet, and then cranked up the first verse  of "Old Rugged Cross," that you'd shed a tear and ask where the deviled eggs are.

You need some help moving those chairs?

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10960

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42 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I bet if I put you in a room with drop ceilings, AC on high, the smell of new carpet, and then cranked up the first verse  of "Old Rugged Cross," that you'd shed a tear and ask where the deviled eggs are.

Replace "Old Rugged Cross" with "Victory in Jesus" and add in the smell of people over 75 and you got it exactly right.

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SimonBolivar

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31 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Replace "Old Rugged Cross" with "Victory in Jesus" and add in the smell of people over 75 and you got it exactly right.

Well this went down a rabbit hole. I looked up "Victory in Jesus" to see when it was written and I saw that the guy that wrote it was a minister and so was his son, but his grandson went in a different direction in life.

 

https://www.news9.com/story/13816111/bethany-police-man-snapped-before-attacking-killing-wife

 

Quote

Jennifer Pierce, News 9

BETHANY, Oklahoma -- The Bethany Police Department has released graphic information relating to the murder of a Bethany woman. The police chief, Phil Cole, said Reginald Bartlett, the woman's husband, confessed to the crime.

Police responded to 7600 N.W. 25th Street Saturday night where Cathy Jane Bartlett was found stabbed to death inside the couple's home. The woman was laying face up on the floor with her legs spread open. Her shirt was pulled up over her breasts and she was nude from the breasts down. She had numerous stab wounds to her face, upper chest, abdomen and vaginal area. Her panties and jeans were lying beside her in a pile, along with her leg brace.

Police said it appeared Cathy had been sexually assaulted.

Bartlett told police he staged the alleged murder to look like a home invasion.

In an arrest affidavit, Reginald stated he was a sick individual and was addicted to pornography. He stated, Cathy came into the computer room and confronted him about the pornography and a bank statement in which she thought Bartlett was purchasing pornography. Reginald stated Cathy slapped him on the side of the head and that is when he "snapped" and grabbed a knife and began stabbing her. After the attack, he left the home and went to a basketball game at Southern Nazarene University.

Bartlett now faces second-degree murder charges.

Chief Cole said this is one of the more serious domestic related crimes he has seen in Bethany.

Bartlett serves as a supervisor at the Bethany Water Treatment plant, where he has been employed for more than 20 years.

 

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F250

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45 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

My favorite along this line is what’s the difference between a Methodist and a Baptist?

The Methodist will speak to you in the liquor store.

Methodists drink on the front porch and Baptists drink on the back porch.

 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

I bet if I put you in a room with drop ceilings, AC on high, the smell of new carpet, and then cranked up the first verse  of "Old Rugged Cross," that you'd shed a tear and ask where the deviled eggs are.

I love a good hymnal. The little church in the vale always gets me. And yes please pass the deviled eggs.

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RDCanecutter

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1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

Replace "Old Rugged Cross" with "Victory in Jesus" and add in the smell of people over 75 and you got it exactly right.

A bald-headed old man at Baptist youth camp in or near Selma Alabama shouted at the end of "Old Rugged Cross": "If you don't know that song, you ain't a Baptist!"

 

So I will

Fix

Bayonets.

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RDCanecutter

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46 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I love a good hymnal.

Yep. Good ol' hymnal or nothing. If you're singing Contemporary Crap with everybody staring at the projected lyrics with THEIR DAMN ARMS UP IN THE AIR, well, son, you might as well put on a goat mask and drink infant's blood.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17811

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1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

Yep. Good ol' hymnal or nothing. If you're singing Contemporary Crap with everybody staring at the projected lyrics with THEIR DAMN ARMS UP IN THE AIR, well, son, you might as well put on a goat mask and drink infant's blood.

41HxCluMw6L._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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10 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Yep. Good ol' hymnal or nothing. If you're singing Contemporary Crap with everybody staring at the projected lyrics with THEIR DAMN ARMS UP IN THE AIR, well, son, you might as well put on a goat mask and drink infant's blood.

I hate the projections on the walls without the music score to read.  Most people have no idea how to sing the song. Gimme a damned hymnal !!

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RDCanecutter

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2 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

Is it an old thing? I am not getting any of these references

We need you to be translator the next time we get American teens who don't know how to build houses to go to Mexico to build houses for people who probably know how to build houses already.

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RDCanecutter

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3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Watch out for that fiddle boy. You don't wanna end up in hell.

I was farmed off to a Church of Christ Bible School thing one summer when my mom needed a break from my Bart Simpson ass. It was usual kool-aid, cookies, and crayons. The main thing I remember was the lady explaining why they didn't play instruments and I said "Well, that sounds stupid." Then maybe the same day she said we should pray for peace in the Middle East, and I said we didn't need to because the Israelis had just beaten the britches off the Arabs and they'd do it again if they needed to.

I don't remember going back there the next summer.

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TwiceHorn

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Ronald Reagan as he uttered the line that sealed the bond between Republicans and the religious right: “I know you can’t endorse me, but I endorse you.”

Can someone provide some context there?  Was there at one time some prohibition against SBC endorsing candidates? 

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TwiceHorn

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2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

That's the line that pieces of shit like Jeffress toe.  

Exactly who I was thinking of.  And if it's a congregational church, what is the church, exactly?  And if it's a semi-congregational church, like a Baptist church (that appoints its own pastor), what is the church?

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105438

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Baptists serve bland food at their potlucks.

So do Presbyterians and Methodists, generally speaking.

Catholics always have booze.  The food can be pretty good, if it's a heavily hispanic congregation.

But for the best grub.....man, spend a Sunday at an A.M.E. church.  

Theologically speaking, I mostly judge the denominations by the quality of their potlucks and the attractiveness of my pew-mates.  It may not be the most theologically sound approach, but it works for me.

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workswithseed

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Exactly who I was thinking of.  And if it's a congregational church, what is the church, exactly?  And if it's a semi-congregational church, like a Baptist church (that appoints its own pastor), what is the church?

The elders, at least for us.

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RDCanecutter

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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

All of you heretics better get your shit together.

Signed,

The Roman Catholic Church

My spiritual journey in the Catholic Church started and ended that year I was chasing after the Polish girl who sang in the folk mass. I joined up as a guitar player. Fond memories of standing up there in front, playing A Minor and staring at the Polish girl's butt.

Then the Lord saw fit to set a big-titty Presbyterian girl in my path who was DTF. I did not react as Onan.

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Chad Fuck

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4 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

My spiritual journey in the Catholic Church started and ended that year I was chasing after the Polish girl who sang in the folk mass. I joined up as a guitar player. Fond memories of standing up there in front, playing A Minor and staring at the Polish girl's butt.

Then the Lord saw fit to set a big-titty Presbyterian girl in my path who was DTF. I did not react as Onan.

There are two kinds of liars.  

Those who say they don't. 

And those who say they quit.

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