2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[aggie08 21424]

26 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I’m as big of a Steph fan as anyone, but if they swapped teams Dame would have a title or two and Steph wouldn’t have any.  

Probably fair. Though Dame's defense is every bit as bad as Steph's and probably a decent amount worse. And Steph's postseason numbers are considerably better (Dame obviously has him beat in series ending shots though). Other than dunking, Dame is about 80-90% as good as Steph in every basketball skill. They're both tremendous leaders. That's good enough for Top 10-15 status. If Steph didn't exist, his style and deep 3's would be revolutionary.

I will say that the offense you can build around Steph is probably more dynamic and tougher to defend than the offense around Dame because of Steph's off-ball movement.

Edited August 15, 2020 by aggie08

[conVINCEd 21468]

11 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

On the Zion subject, what do y'all put the odds of him living up to his recent comments about slimming down?

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29654517/zion-williamson-spend-offseason-working-game-body

He's cursed/blessed with immense natural thickness (which is the gayest thing I've ever written), and it's always going to be an Achilles heel (along with his free-throw shooting). But if he can get to or below 250, the sky's the limit.

He’s living in the worst city in the US to lose weight.  I just gained a couple of pounds thinking about eating in NO.

[hobbes2702 12799]

27 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I’m as big of a Steph fan as anyone, but if they swapped teams Dame would have a title or two and Steph wouldn’t have any.  

Nope. Did everyone forget that Steph is the best shooter of all time?

[ztejas 43262]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Dame is about 80-90% as good as Steph in every basketball skill.

Dame is just as good of a passer and might actually edge him in that regard. He's also much better at getting to the line. 

[conVINCEd 21468]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Probably fair. Though Dame's defense is every bit as bad as Steph's and probably a decent amount worse. And Steph's postseason numbers are considerably better (Dame obviously has him beat in series ending shots though). Other than dunking, Dame is about 80-90% as good as Steph in every basketball skill. They're both tremendous leaders. That's good enough for Top 10-15 status. If Steph didn't exist, his style and deep 3's would be revolutionary.

Does calling Dame an upper-middle class Steph work?

[aggie08 21424]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Dame is just as good of a passer and might actually edge him in that regard. He's also much better at getting to the line. 

I'm obviously biased, but I think Steph is easily a better, more natural passer. He's always at the top or damn close to leading the league in hockey assists, which shows high basketball IQ and feel for the game. Before Kerr, when they ran a more traditional offense, he had an 8.5 assist season. He'd be over 8 every year if they ran a league-average amount of PnR sets. Dame's over 8 this year because the ball is always in his hand. As I said, I think an offense built around Steph is much harder to defend given his off-the-ball wizardry.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

45 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I mean...

http://bkref.com/tiny/Yadem

Interestingly enough, Steph lost the championship that year and needed KD for the next 2.  Dame with prime Klay and KD and Draymond is an interesting thought, although Steph is a fantastic team guy and good leader.  

 

[ztejas 43262]

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I'm obviously biased, but I think Steph is easily a better, more natural passer. He's always at the top or damn close to leading the league in hockey assists, which shows high basketball IQ and feel for the game. Before Kerr, when they ran a more traditional offense, he had an 8.5 assist season. He'd be over 8 every year if they ran a league-average amount of PnR sets. Dame's over 8 this year because the ball is always in his hand. As I said, I think an offense built around Steph is much harder to defend given his off-the-ball wizardry.

I mean it doesn't take long to look this stuff up. 

https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular Season

Lillard has been above Curry in ast pts created (which takes into account hockey assist and assists on 3s) four of the past five years (including this year where it's safe to assume Lillard would have led him since his metric was better than Curry's career best).

If you want to account for USG% Dame's AST% is slightly lower for his career but his TOV% is lower than Curry's and more than makes up for it. 

I'm not talking about who creates a better offense or who is harder to defend - just making the point that Lillard is a better passer in an objective sense - and he's done it with worse teammates. 

[conVINCEd 21468]

Nurkic has 15&17 at half, playing a few hours after he found out his grandmother died from covid.

[ztejas 43262]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

playing a few hours after he found out his grandmother died from covid.

Damn. That's rough.

I would say stuff like that tends to make players play better, though. 

[Blotto 23427]

Entertaining game.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

24 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Entertaining game.

Very..... It's still an odd watch with no fans, but this is a fun game with Ja and Dame McCollum going at it.  Nurkic has been an animal.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[CBT 1281]

What a great game

[TommyGufano 6021]

The Grayson Allen call was an abomination

[LTtxfan 48962]

I'm a BEAST!!!

[conVINCEd 21468]

Outstanding game.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

And Melo with the dagger..... this game has everything.  lol.

 

[Dr Fear 1265]

High quality back door cover from Morant +6

[LTtxfan 48962]

Awesome that Portland may be the Lakers KRYPTONITE!!!

Fuck the Lakers!!!

[ztejas 43262]

This Portland team has some '99 Knicks energy to it. 

Nurkic is a fucking beast and will really test AD. McCollum is a hell of a #3 to have and he's been clutch as fuck. Dame is a fucking junkyard dog right now that is refusing to lose.

Can't wait for the playoffs.

[washparkhorn 9935]

Nurk was missing last year. With his addition to the lineup and McCollum returning to playoff form . . . this is a better team than last year. Portland should give Lakers a good series. LBJ will need to work for a Championship. Blazers have a shot. 

Memphis proved their worthiness in that game. Morant had a great season. SAS made a good run at that game. PHX made a hell of a run - unsung hero on that team is Rubio. Minnesota made major upgrades before the season was halted. They will be better next year. NOP will have a new coach and all that talent. And Golden State will reunite.

The West is a beast. 

FA's need to head to the East. 

[LTtxfan 48962]

23 minutes ago, ztejas said:

This Portland team has some '99 Knicks energy to it. 

Nurkic is a fucking beast and will really test AD. McCollum is a hell of a #3 to have and he's been clutch as fuck. Dame is a fucking junkyard dog right now that is refusing to lose.

Can't wait for the playoffs.

 

Crazy that McCollum playing with a fracture in his back...      

[Insider Dwight Jaynes reported that McCollum suffered a L3 vertebral transverse process fracture (non-displaced). ]

[ztejas 43262]

3 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

The West is a beast. 

FA's need to head to the East. 

East is getting tough too. Should be four legit Finals contenders next year with BKN/MIL/TOR/BOS and then PHI as a wildcard. League as a whole right now has a ton of talent and it's pretty well spread out.

[washparkhorn 9935]

57 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

. . . this is a fun game with Ja and Dame McCollum going at it.  Nurkic has been an animal.

When Dame has a normal night and they win - that means the snipers and Nurk are doing their job. Lakers are going to try and shut Dame down - they must. Dame is focused. 

Lakers bring their own circus. Bubble games keep the circus to a minimum. Adv. Portland

[washparkhorn 9935]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

East is getting tough too. Should be four legit Finals contenders next year with BKN/MIL/TOR/BOS and then PHI as a wildcard. League as a whole right now has a ton of talent and it's pretty well spread out.

They almost have 8 playoff caliber teams, which -- I fully agree with you -- is getting tough. The Heavyweight-class at the top. MIL/BKN/TOR/BOS/PHI are Western Conference worthy.

Milwaukee is the dominant team in the East - and should be again next year. The Nets look to be capable of taking it all, but they have to make that puzzle all fit together. Good coaching is a must for that team to gel and dominate. The NBA loves drama.

[washparkhorn 9935]

16 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Crazy that McCollum playing with a fracture in his back...      

[Insider Dwight Jaynes reported that McCollum suffered a L3 vertebral transverse process fracture (non-displaced). ]

Romo had that injury. Sat out a game (IIRC). I don't think it made him any worse.

Thankfully for McCollum - it is not one of the paralyzing type injuries of the spine because of the anatomy of an L3 vertebra. Still has to get into his head though. Sounds like Portland docs are taking good care of him. 

[ztejas 43262]

5 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

The Nets look to be capable of taking it all, but they have to make that puzzle all fit together. Good coaching is a must for that team to gel and dominate.

If KD comes back at 95% (and he looks close to that in footage I've seen) and he and Kyrie can play ~70 games each and stay healthy in the playoffs then they should be able to make the ECF regardless of whatever the coaching or rest of the roster looks like. 

The gulf between the form Durant was in in 2019 and whoever the 2nd best player in the East is right now is fucking enormous. So assuming he can play at even 90% of that for ~34 mins per game it should really come down to him vs. Giannis. 

[conVINCEd 21468]

The problem in the East isn’t at the top, it’s at the bottom.   Chicago, NYK, Detroit, Cleveland, and Charlotte are all fucking terrible, and don’t have much hope of getting any better any time soon.  Atlanta was also terrible, but the have some hope and a plan.  The only two teams in the west that were fucking terrible were Minnesota and GS.  If you would like to also include Sacramento in the terrible group I won’t argue as they have a worse plan going forward than Minny or GS despite having a better record this year.    Minnesota at least has a couple of quality players to work with, and GS should be back in contention next year even if they aren’t quite what they used to be.  Not many nights off in the west next year.  The contenders in the East get to sleepwalk through 33% of their conference schedule.

[washparkhorn 9935]

41 minutes ago, ztejas said:

If KD comes back at 95% (and he looks close to that in footage I've seen) and he and Kyrie can play ~70 games each and stay healthy in the playoffs then they should be able to make the ECF regardless of whatever the coaching or rest of the roster looks like. 

Agree. I am not worried about KD on that team. 

[aggie08 21424]

24 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

If you would like to also include Sacramento in the terrible group I won’t argue as they have a worse plan going forward

They did finally fired Vlade, so that's...something.

Where's Vic to remind us how smart they were for firing their only successful coach since Rick fucking Adelman?

Edited August 15, 2020 by aggie08

[washparkhorn 9935]

19 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Chicago

That was a good decision to let Coach Boylen go. It is a step in the right direction. Their new man in charge of basketball - Arturas Karnisovas -  knows how to build teams quickly. He was part of the front office team that built the Nuggets roster.  Chicago needs a star or two to build around. 

Might be time to find someone more fresh from the Pop camp of coaches out there in the league. Chicago does well as a perennial playoff team. 

The coaching carousel. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-have-tough-competition-coaching-market-not-time-worry-yet

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by washparkhorn

[conVINCEd 21468]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

They did finally fired Vlade, so that's...something.

Where's Vic to remind us how smart they were for firing their only successful coach since Rick fucking Adelman?

It’s rare that I give props to journalists these days, but The Ringer’s article about Vlade leaving was titled “The Last Cigarette.”  They should win a Pulitzer for that.

[TonyTexas 10481]

The West is just crazy deep. Even 1 vs 8 is a great matchup. I think Portland, as a 4/1 dog, is a great value. Throw in the Pels with Zion, GS comeback and up and coming Phoenix and next year will be even tougher. 

[d2o 1602]

18 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

On the Zion subject, what do y'all put the odds of him living up to his recent comments about slimming down?

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29654517/zion-williamson-spend-offseason-working-game-body

He's cursed/blessed with immense natural thickness (which is the gayest thing I've ever written), and it's always going to be an Achilles heel (along with his free-throw shooting). But if he can get to or below 250, the sky's the limit.

I said it throughout the pre-draft period and still stand by it.   I would have taken Ja over Zion but especially if I could have got 2 or 3 extra picks (like ORL got or CWebb) to swap 1 and 2.   Zion has forever been out of shape and at least so far has ZERO commitment to getting into shape.    He has been able to dominate at ever y level just showing up and being bigger and stronger than everyone else.   That wont fly in the league.  

I get why teams would take Zion as they are trying their best to give the league to him already but if you want the guy that can be a #1 Ja is and was always the guy.

[d2o 1602]

20 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

NO just shitcanned Gentry.  Tough deal when he’s only allowed to play his best player for 15 min/game.  

yep, he got a raw deal.    It seemed like an internal struggle all year with Zion.    He was never truly ready to play but the org didn't want to just scrap him for the yr so Gentry always had to work around his minute restrictions.   To make matters worse it seems as is they forced him to play Zion at the beginning of games/quarters instead of saving his minutes for late game situations

 

[Brothahorn 10085]

NO just shitcanned Gentry.  Tough deal when he’s only allowed to play his best player for 15 min/game.  

What a shitshow org. Gentry might not be a championship level coach but making him fall on the sword is just shitty management.

Are you talking about the same Alvin Gentry who had already been in NO for 5 years? Plus the dude has already been fired from 3 other jobs. I’d wager the firing was more than just about this year. Plus,
NO was wasn’t taking the next step with him on the sideline.

[hobbes2702 12799]

5 hours ago, d2o said:

I said it throughout the pre-draft period and still stand by it.   I would have taken Ja over Zion but especially if I could have got 2 or 3 extra picks (like ORL got or CWebb) to swap 1 and 2.   Zion has forever been out of shape and at least so far has ZERO commitment to getting into shape.    He has been able to dominate at ever y level just showing up and being bigger and stronger than everyone else.   That wont fly in the league.  

I get why teams would take Zion as they are trying their best to give the league to him already but if you want the guy that can be a #1 Ja is and was always the guy.

He’s 20 years old. Saying he’s been out of shape forever Is a bit disingenuous.

[cmontexas 3250]

How did Brandon Clarke slip to 22 again? I remember watching him ball at Gonzaga and before the draft last year reading several Ringer articles about how good he was going to be. And now here we are he's clearly a top 5 rookie in this class

Edited August 16, 2020 by cmontexas

[TommyGufano 6021]

1 hour ago, cmontexas said:

How did Brandon Clarke slip to 22 again? I remember watching him ball at Gonzaga and before the draft last year reading several Ringer articles about how good he was going to be. And now here we are he's clearly a top 5 rookie in this class

I was a fan, and have text messages from draft night expressing as much, but the rationale was that he has short arms, is old, and was building a new jump shot from the ground up and it hadn't yet really shown well in games.

[ocugolf 1210]

Bazley picked right before Clarke by the Thunder has been really impressive since going to the bubble.

[d2o 1602]

12 hours ago, cmontexas said:

How did Brandon Clarke slip to 22 again? I remember watching him ball at Gonzaga and before the draft last year reading several Ringer articles about how good he was going to be. And now here we are he's clearly a top 5 rookie in this class

Yeah he has been great this season.  

[BradInATX 9208]

Man that comparison between Steph and Dame a bit up the thread was some crazy stuff. One guy is the best offensive player in the history of the sport who completely revolutionized the way the game is played. The other is a good offensive player who makes the all star team most years and has had a really good three week run.

[ztejas 43262]

Steph vs Lillard? Who cares. One of those guys isn't even playing right now.

Because, it's time to wakeup and start overreacting to every game played for the next two months, motherfuckers. Time to dig out all resentments you have towards every team involved, bitch about whoever is calling every game, wonder how much weight to assign this year's champion (highly dependent on who wins it, of course!), ponder if the Mouse has become our new entertainment overlord, get a little warm fuzzy feeling that you won't have to watch the Spurs play, and drink more than you should on a Tuesday night and wind up screaming and waking up the dog.

Yes, it's time for...

[Chad 1728]

https://sports.yahoo.com/carmelo-anthony-damian-lillard-top-012547408.html

Melo has been impressed with Dame.

Quote

Allen Iverson. James Harden. Russell Westbrook. Chris Paul. Paul George.

Carmelo Anthony has played with some other Hall of Fame-level talent during his career (and we’re not even talking Olympic ‘Melo, that’s another long list). After Portland’s run through the seeding games and into the playoffs, Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports asked ‘Melo where Damian Lillard ranks on that list.

 

“Dame’s at the top for me,” Anthony told Yahoo Sports. “I’ve never played with someone who lifted his team on the court with his play and as a leader. He genuinely cares for his teammates. What he’s been able to do is amazing. He’s the top guy I’ve played with.”

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

3 hours ago, Chad said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/carmelo-anthony-damian-lillard-top-012547408.html

Melo has been impressed with Dame.

 

I mean, was he supposed to say that Amare Stoudamire and Marcus Camby (the two best players Melo played with in his actual p;rime) were better?

[ztejas 43262]

41 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I mean, was he supposed to say that Amare Stoudamire and Marcus Camby (the two best players Melo played with in his actual p;rime) were better?

Melo played with AI when Iverson still had some juice. 

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Melo played with AI when Iverson still had some juice. 

Man, I had completely forgotten about AI being on that team. But I somehow remembered that it had Eduardo Najera who I hated as a Spurs fan when he was in Dallas. Fuck that guy. Spurs whooped that ass though.

[Chad 1728]

51 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I mean, was he supposed to say that Amare Stoudamire and Marcus Camby (the two best players Melo played with in his actual p;rime) were better?

Haha, Amare and Marcus wouldn't even crack the Top 5 of players he's teamed with. Melo played with the likes of CP3, Paul George, Russ, AI and Harden.

[ztejas 43262]

7 minutes ago, Chad said:

Haha, Amare and Marcus wouldn't even crack the Top 5 of players he's teamed with. Melo played with the likes of CP3, Paul George, Russ, AI and Harden.

Yes. We know. I almost made the same comment. He said "in his actual prime".

[conVINCEd 21468]

He played with Harden and CP3 for like 5 minutes.