2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Steph Curry not top 5? lol

Out of lebron, Giannis, KD, Harden, and Leonard, who are you taking steph over? To be honest, I tried to fit him in this list because he’s easily my favorite player from this list. But I couldn’t fit him in there.

[threesheets 1673]

35 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I think when KD is healthy it’s far from a consensus 

Lebron

KD

Giannis

Harden

that 5th spot is debatable but I would still put Kawhi up there with luka. Much larger sample size. But there’s no doubt in my mind that a healthy luka is probably going to go down as one of the 10 best players to ever play the game. I know that’s some recency bias, but I don’t see how it doesn’t happen barring injury. 

Imagine thinking James Harden is s better player than Kawhi Leonard. Lol.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Out of lebron, Giannis, KD, Harden, and Leonard, who are you taking steph over? To be honest, I tried to fit him in this list because he’s easily my favorite player from this list. But I couldn’t fit him in there.

Harden for sure. Probably KD. Maybe LeBron, depending on how LeBron ages over the next year and how healthy and fresh Curry comes back. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

3 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Out of lebron, Giannis, KD, Harden, and Leonard, who are you taking steph over? To be honest, I tried to fit him in this list because he’s easily my favorite player from this list. But I couldn’t fit him in there.

Current status not prime? Lebron and KD. Let's not pretend an Achilles is just something you bounce back from for KD, and Lebron is clearly not the guy he once was.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, threesheets said:

Imagine thinking James Harden is s better player than Kawhi Leonard. Lol.

Crazy talk. As much as I hate to say it, Leonard is the best player in the league and for my money, it's not particularly close.

[threesheets 1673]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Crazy talk. As much as I hate to say it, Leonard is the best player in the league and for my money, it's not particularly close.

Yep.  He's better than everyone on that list,  except maybe Giannis. And if it's about one game, tonight,  I'm still taking KL over GA.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

9 minutes ago, threesheets said:

Imagine thinking James Harden is s better player than Kawhi Leonard. Lol.

I honestly don’t think that he is, but i feel like the vast majority think that, and I don’t think it’s so far off that it’s worth arguing. Let’s put it that way. They’re clearly in the same tier. That tier can be interchangeable on any given night. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

7 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Current status not prime? Lebron and KD. Let's not pretend an Achilles is just something you bounce back from for KD, and Lebron is clearly not the guy he once was.

That’s fair. I don’t know why my brain keeps assuming KD is going to return to his old form after this injury. Usually people don’t when they are they size.

Edited August 24, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

8 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Crazy talk. As much as I hate to say it, Leonard is the best player in the league and for my money, it's not particularly close.

Funny thing about Kawhi is, I don’t think he’s necessarily better than any of those players at anything besides defense (which usually doesn’t get a ton of credit in this conversation). But he’s the biggest MJ/Kobe type killer in that group and it isn’t even close. He always has been. 

[ztejas 43479]

Brett Brown out in Philly.

[threesheets 1673]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Crazy talk. As much as I hate to say it, Leonard is the best player in the league and for my money, it's not particularly close.

Yep.  He's better than everyone on that list,  except maybe Giannis. And if it's about one game, tonight,  I'm still taking KL over GA.

[d2o 1602]

53 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sorry/ inwas specifically not counting KD due to injuries. Yeah- if he’s back at 100% I think the consensus is pretty clearly (in some order) LBJ, KD, Giannis, Harden and Leonard. 
Luka slots in right after this group imo. So top 5 this season but KD is pending full return to health. 
I know people love AD but I’d take Luka after him. Luka already has done more in 2 years than AD did his entire time in NO as it relates to team winning. 

Has he though?   The Pels were underwhelming with AD without a doubt but they did win a playoff series (a sweep at that as the lower seed).    Luka has not yet.   AD avg'd 33/13/3blks in that sweep.

Edited August 24, 2020 by d2o

[ztejas 43479]

14 minutes ago, d2o said:

Has he though?   The Pels were underwhelming with AD without a doubt but they did win a playoff series (a sweep at that as the lower seed).    Luka has not yet.   AD avg'd 33/13/3blks in that sweep.

Yeah that claim was a bit spurious. AD hit a game winner over OKC to put them in the playoffs one year, too.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

17 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Brett Brown out in Philly.

There always has to be a scape goat

[ztejas 43479]

Just now, youdunnf'dup said:

There always has to be a scape goat

Eh. He's been on the outs for awhile. The FO are the ones really fucking that team but I'm not sure how much Brett did that a warm body wouldn't have. 

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Eh. He's been on the outs for awhile. The FO are the ones really fucking that team but I'm not sure how much Brett did that a warm body wouldn't have. 

He held out and kept them playing through the bullshit process.    Glad he got some of the good yrs and money.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Eh. He's been on the outs for awhile. The FO are the ones really fucking that team but I'm not sure how much Brett did that a warm body wouldn't have. 

Yeah, that was really my main point. From Sixers Reddit

 

[ztejas 43479]

6 minutes ago, d2o said:

He held out and kept them playing through the bullshit process.    Glad he got some of the good yrs and money.

Sixers FO to Brett:

 

[aggie08 21505]

52 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Out of lebron, Giannis, KD, Harden, and Leonard, who are you taking steph over? To be honest, I tried to fit him in this list because he’s easily my favorite player from this list. But I couldn’t fit him in there.

Steph is 7-1 against Houston in the playoffs w/o KD, including ripping out their souls last year. 

I know what kind of team and what kind of locker room you can build around Steph, and what kind of team you can build around Harden. Both are good, one is demonstrably better.

I'll take Steph any day of the week. (Surprising exactly no one.)

Harden's consistent greatest in the regular season though may be unparalleled by anyone not named MJ or LeBron.

[Don Johnson 4754]

Would be such shitty timing for Michigan unless they just bring Beilein back.  But honestly, why wouldn't they?

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Don Johnson

[BradInATX 9208]

I bet Brett Brown will find another NBA gig almost immediately. He's well respected and most NBA brass know that Philly is an awkwardly constructed team with a star that will never fulfill his potential unless something clicks internally for him. I'm not sure Pop or Phil could get the most out of Embiid. He just doesn't seem to give much of a shit. Which is fine, I respect work life balance. But that's not a phrase that first ballot hall of famers know.

 

 

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19116]

56 minutes ago, d2o said:

Has he though?   The Pels were underwhelming with AD without a doubt but they did win a playoff series (a sweep at that as the lower seed).    Luka has not yet.   AD avg'd 33/13/3blks in that sweep.

He had 7 years there and the playoff series was a shitty Portland team who then got buttfucked the next round by Houston?  golden state?  That was his only trip

to the playoffs- in like 7 years. Luka won 2 games (already) off the clips- the Vegas favs at the beginning of the playoffs. Yes. I will take Luka’s body of work over AD’s right now as being meaningful to a teams success. 

[Michael Knight 12988]

[Message Board User 12395]

40 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Yeah, that was really my main point. From Sixers Reddit

 

How did this meme not include Fultz over Tatum?  (And giving Boston valuable assets for the privilege of doing so?)

[Wulaw Horn 19116]

33 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Steph is 7-1 against Houston in the playoffs w/o KD, including ripping out their souls last year. 

I know what kind of team and what kind of locker room you can build around Steph, and what kind of team you can build around Harden. Both are good, one is demonstrably better.

I'll take Steph any day of the week. (Surprising exactly no one.)

Harden's consistent greatest in the regular season though may be unparalleled by anyone not named MJ or LeBron.

Yep. Harden carriers/has carried more of a regular season load than just about anyone, ever. Steph also haD super friends around him at all times and harden had Dwight and a 3-2 lead with Paul. 
Some would call that reasons. Some excuses. But Steph has done it and Harden hasn’t so I have no argument with this. 

[ztejas 43479]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

He had 7 years there and the playoff series was a shitty Portland team who then got buttfucked the next round by Houston?  golden state?  That was his only trip

Golden State. So if you want to fault him for going out in 5 against KD and Steph at the height of their powers, sure. He averaged 28/15 on pretty good shooting with 2 steals and 2 blocks for good measure.

[Wulaw Horn 19116]

3 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Sex G for me!  

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

He had 7 years there and the playoff series was a shitty Portland team who then got buttfucked the next round by Houston?  golden state?  That was his only trip

to the playoffs- in like 7 years. Luka won 2 games (already) off the clips- the Vegas favs at the beginning of the playoffs. Yes. I will take Luka’s body of work over AD’s right now as being meaningful to a teams success. 

Your prerogative, I suppose, but winning two playoff games isn't better than sweeping a better team.   You can say what you want about POR that yr but they were the #3 seed that season.   If DAL somehow wins this series then my opinion of this will change but as of now he has not done more than AD in the playoffs.........yet

[Wulaw Horn 19116]

Just now, ztejas said:

Golden State. So if you want to fault him for going out in 5 against KD and Steph at the height of their powers, sure. He averaged 28/15 on pretty good shooting with 2 steals and 2 blocks for good measure.

Incredibly unaccomplished in a team setting for a guy always considered a top 5 guy. We can all agree on that, right?  

[Pato del Muerto 52528]

5 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Is Sex G a good nickname?

Edited August 24, 2020 by Pato del Muerto
Dammit what are the odds

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Golden State. So if you want to fault him for going out in 5 against KD and Steph at the height of their powers, sure. He averaged 28/15 on pretty good shooting with 2 steals and 2 blocks for good measure.

Right no shame in losing to the title team in the middle of a dynasty.    It would be different if he didnt show in that series.

[ztejas 43479]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

Incredibly unaccomplished in a team setting for a guy always considered a top 5 guy. We can all agree on that, right?  

Yes. But you're shifting the goalposts now. The one year he had an all-NBA teammate he swept the Blazers before running into the Ws buzzsaw. That Ws team would fuck this Mavs team up. KD would put up 40 against this defense in his sleep.

[HtownHorn 14726]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Brett Brown out in Philly.

Not a shock, but no coach is winning in Philly with the current team makeup. 

[HtownHorn 14726]

1 hour ago, threesheets said:

Yep.  He's better than everyone on that list,  except maybe Giannis. And if it's about one game, tonight,  I'm still taking KL over GA.

Please tell me what Giannis has done in terms of winning in the playoffs to become the #1 guy in the NBA? Before being considered the best shouldn't you at least have a playoff record better than Harden's?

He's been in the league since 2013, made the playoffs for the 1st time in 2016.

2016: Lost 1st round 2-4

2017: Lost 1st round 3-4

2018: Lost Conference Finals 2-4

Edited August 24, 2020 by HtownHorn

[ztejas 43479]

12 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Please tell me what Giannis has done in terms of winning in the playoffs to become the #1 guy in the NBA? Before being considered the best shouldn't you at least have a playoff record better than Harden's?

He's been in the league since 2013, made the playoffs for the 1st time in 2016.

2016: Lost 1st round 2-4

2017: Lost 1st round 3-4

2018: Lost Conference Finals 2-4

Giannis is playing the best ball of his career right now. Disingenious to compare other players to what Giannis did on past Bucks teams. And he was pretty good against Toronto last year. Bledsoe and Middleton shit the bed for them.

[HtownHorn 14726]

21 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Giannis is playing the best ball of his career right now. Disingenious to compare other players to what Giannis did on past Bucks teams. And he was pretty good against Toronto last year. Bledsoe and Middleton shit the bed for them.

You don't need to make excuses for Giannis's teams shitting the bed in the playoffs. He's the star, he takes the blame, that's the way it is with every other star in the league.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Sex k

[shadow_operative 15932]

Concise B

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

48 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Please tell me what Giannis has done in terms of winning in the playoffs to become the #1 guy in the NBA? Before being considered the best shouldn't you at least have a playoff record better than Harden's?

He's been in the league since 2013, made the playoffs for the 1st time in 2016.

2016: Lost 1st round 2-4

2017: Lost 1st round 3-4

2018: Lost Conference Finals 2-4

 

15 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

You don't need to make excuses for Giannis's teams shitting the bed in the playoffs. He's the star, he takes the blame, that's the way it is with every other star in the league.

If you are trying to imply that Giannis is given the benefit of the doubt where Harden isn't, there is a reason for that. Giannis was a project and nothing was expected of him probably really until last year. If the Bucks crap out again, I imagine that the narrative will start to change around him at least somewhat. Harden on the other hand, has a long and demonstrated history of playoff bed shitting, going back to the Thunder/Heat finals in 2012 where he shot about 25% from the field. He's also been bounced from the first round 4 times in Houston, they had that wack ass series against the Clippers where they were left for dead until Harden got benched and the team came back without him in game 6 (IIRC), that horrible performance in game 6 at home against the Kawhi-less Spurs where they got blown out by 30 and he was 2-11 before spending the remainder of the evening at the titter and then not being able to get over the hump against the W's without KD playing. 

[ztejas 43479]

34 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

You don't need to make excuses for Giannis's teams shitting the bed in the playoffs. He's the star, he takes the blame, that's the way it is with every other star in the league.

It's pretty rare for guys to make the Finals that have never been to a Conference Finals. I mean it's a really short list of teams that do that. I expect MIL to make the Finals this season, and once they do he is above everyone not named LeBron or Kawhi. 

You can also be the best player in the league and not make the Finals or win the championship. I think that is the case more years than not post-MJ. In the past decade, the only years where the best player in the league won it were LeBron's 3 titles, maybe Durant in 2018, MAYBE Kobe in 2010, and maybe Kawhi last year (but if KD was healthy they wouldn't have won - and Kawhi was probably not better than Durant before Durant got hurt).

Duncan in 1999 - arguably already the best player in the league - in the 2000s, you have Shaq in 00 and 01 - Duncan in 05 and then Kobe in 09 - but you could make an easy case LeBron was the best player in the league that year. I suppose you could make the case Duncan was the best player in the league in 07 but it was probably Kobe or Dirk by that point.

So it's been the case that the best player wins  about ~40% of the time post MJ. 

[d2o 1602]

7 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

If you are trying to imply that Giannis is given the benefit of the doubt where Harden isn't, there is a reason for that. Giannis was a project and nothing was expected of him probably really until last year. If the Bucks crap out again, I imagine that the narrative will start to change around him at least somewhat. Harden on the other hand, has a long and demonstrated history of playoff bed shitting, going back to the Thunder/Heat finals in 2012 where he shot about 25% from the field. He's also been bounced from the first round 4 times in Houston, they had that wack ass series against the Clippers where they were left for dead until Harden got benched and the team came back without him in game 6 (IIRC), that horrible performance in game 6 at home against the Kawhi-less Spurs where they got blown out by 30 and he was 2-11 before spending the remainder of the evening at the titter and then not being able to get over the hump against the W's without KD playing. 

Dont forget the playoff record 13 TO game.

[aggie08 21505]

The funniest part about Paul George having to wear it on social media is that he 100% brought it upon himself. He's a 2nd tier star; normally, no one would care when he or Klay or Rudy Gobert has a bad game. They don't get the game-by-game scrutiny of LeBron, Steph, Harden, KD, Russ, etc....

But he just couldn't fucking help himself attaching a self-appointed nickname after a good game, Game 1 Round 1.

Edited August 24, 2020 by aggie08

[ztejas 43479]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Game 1 Round 1.

Yeah. The game where randos show out before getting shutdown the rest of the series.

[HtownHorn 14726]

34 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

If you are trying to imply that Giannis is given the benefit of the doubt where Harden isn't, there is a reason for that. Giannis was a project and nothing was expected of him probably really until last year. If the Bucks crap out again, I imagine that the narrative will start to change around him at least somewhat. Harden on the other hand, has a long and demonstrated history of playoff bed shitting, going back to the Thunder/Heat finals in 2012 where he shot about 25% from the field. He's also been bounced from the first round 4 times in Houston, they had that wack ass series against the Clippers where they were left for dead until Harden got benched and the team came back without him in game 6 (IIRC), that horrible performance in game 6 at home against the Kawhi-less Spurs where they got blown out by 30 and he was 2-11 before spending the remainder of the evening at the titter and then not being able to get over the hump against the W's without KD playing. 

Got it, different rules then. Thanks for clarifying.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

25 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Got it, different rules then. Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah... that's not what I was saying at all. There are no different rules. If Giannis puts together a string of playoff choke jobs like Harden has, he will be judged the same way. He just hasn't had the opportunity yet. There are already rumblings after what happened last year against Toronto. Going up 2-0 and then getting swept the rest of the way while Toronto packed it in the lane on them wasn't a good look for him. If he does it again, then you will start to see more and more criticism. Shit, you were already starting to see some of it after they lost Game 1 to Orlando. 

[gsoda3 3263]

Posting G

[ztejas 43479]

Giannis - 31/15/8 on 14/21 shooting - 2 turnovers

[d2o 1602]

 

[Kermit 3156]

That guy is a national treasure. 

[immortal13 4059]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

The funniest part about Paul George having to wear it on social media is that he 100% brought it upon himself. He's a 2nd tier star; normally, no one would care when he or Klay or Rudy Gobert has a bad game. They don't get the game-by-game scrutiny of LeBron, Steph, Harden, KD, Russ, etc....

But he just couldn't fucking help himself attaching a self-appointed nickname after a good game, Game 1 Round 1.

The self-appointed nicknames are always lame....Kobe, Lebron  ect. But not living up to your own nickname is extra bad