2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 minute ago, Etexhorn13 said:

I definitely get that, which is why I would not like to play them first round as a Mavs fan. Kawhi and PG can bring offense every night, but they looked bad at times tonight if they weren’t hitting 3s. Maybe I don’t want to admit that the lakers look as good as they do. That goddamn aggy is a baller. I always gave him shit cus he needs to shave his head but he’s a pretty good player. 

nothing more frustrating as a basketball player/fan than an opposing player who looks goofy as shit but is in fact pretty damn good. remember when Phil Forte was at OSU? god it's so frustrating when the goofy white guy can actually hoop. 

[ztejas 44317]

21 minutes ago, Etexhorn13 said:

Kawhi and PG can bring offense every night, but they looked bad at times tonight if they weren’t hitting 3s

Looks like George was stroking it from the box score.

It seems like LeBron's second thing to diminish will be his scoring. He's still very good but not as consistent as he used to be and not quite elite anymore. It will be interesting to see if it costs the Lakers once they get into a tight series this year.

His passing is still phenomenal, as is his leadership and communication. He's still in unreal shape for his age and can contribute defensively when they need him to - an overall plus on that end especially when you factor in being in the right place and calling out assignments. Just doesn't have the same effort and man to man ability anymore.

It will be interesting to see how his game continues to age. He will always be an elite passer and probably won't retire as anything less than a 20 ppg scorer - and he will always have nights where he's the best player on the court - just not as many as he used to.

Edited July 31, 2020 by ztejas

[Etexhorn13 3103]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Looks like George was stroking it from the box score.

It seems like LeBron's second thing to diminish will be his scoring. He's still very good but not as consistent as he used to be and not quite elite anymore. It should have cost the Cavs a Finals trip last year and it will be interesting to see if it costs the Lakers once they get into a tight series this year.

His passing is still phenomenal, as is his leadership and communication. He's still in unreal shape for his age and can contribute defensively when they need him to - an overall plus on that end especially when you factor in being in the right place and calling out assignments. Just doesn't have the same effort and man to man ability anymore.

It will be interesting to see how his game continues to age. He will always be an elite passer and probably won't retire as anything less than a 20 ppg scorer - and he will always have nights where he's the best player on the court - just not as many as he used to.

To be fair I am a Lebron hater full send, but his offense on the lakers last possession and defense in the clips last possession won them the game. I’m not sure he’s the dude that takes over a whole game anymore, but damn when he needs to come through he is fully capable. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12858]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

great play by LeBron, but he is a sooooo gay for yelling at the refs after the play. he is the whiniest all-time great in NBA history.

 

Good lord ... Tim Duncan on line 1 for Shadow Operative.   And I say this as a Spurs fan.

[shadow_operative 15932]

8 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

Good lord ... Tim Duncan on line 1 for Shadow Operative.   And I say this as a Spurs fan.

fair point. but i'll argue that LeBron is even more animated than TD was. i just wish he'd stop being *shocked* at every call/non-call after 17 years or whatever it's been. 

 

side note- has it really been that long? are we all really that old?

[Herpa Derpa 6361]

9 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

He looks exactly like my wife’s uncle when he was going through chemo.

I'm sensing a pattern here.

[Sbbruin 22149]

11 hours ago, Etexhorn13 said:

To be fair I am a Lebron hater full send, but his offense on the lakers last possession and defense in the clips last possession won them the game. I’m not sure he’s the dude that takes over a whole game anymore, but damn when he needs to come through he is fully capable. 

If you watched him this season, especially the last 20 games or so before the shutdown, he was as dominate as they come.  He can still certainly take over games.  There's a reason he is getting serious consideration for MVP.  Giannis will get it, but LeBron will be a close second.

[Kermit 3166]

6 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If you watched him this season, especially the last 20 games or so before the shutdown, he was as dominate as they come.  He can still certainly take over games.  There's a reason he is getting serious consideration for MVP.  Giannis will get it, but LeBron will be a close second.

It shouldn’t be close. Giannis has had a historically dominant season. 

[Sbbruin 22149]

2 minutes ago, Kermit said:

It shouldn’t be close. Giannis has had a historically dominant season. 

Agreed.  But LBJ had his best season in at least 3-4 years.  Like I said, Giannis wins it.  But Don't be surprised to see LBJ get more than a few first place votes.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10819]

SIAP... that is quite a large desk

 

[ztejas 44317]

14 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If you watched him this season, especially the last 20 games or so before the shutdown, he was as dominate as they come. 

Eh. He's had a good season but "dominant as they come" is a pretty big stretch. And sure he will come 2nd but this is a super weak year for MVP contention.

Over his last 20 he had 6 games with less than 20 points and another 4 with 20-22. He had 5 games with 5 turnovers and another 5 with more than 5 including some nights of 7 and 8.

He's still probably a top 5 player but he's no longer consistently dominant in the regular season - he picks and chooses his spots. If he can turn it on in the playoffs the way he did in 2018 then his self load management is obviously worth it. (Although it's kind of fucky considering he got a 4 month vacation and we're playing less games - but I'll try and hold my tounge on that aspect)

[Sbbruin 22149]

17 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Eh. He's had a good season but "dominant as they come" is a pretty big stretch. And sure he will come 2nd but this is a super weak year for MVP contention.

Over his last 20 he had 6 games with less than 20 points and another 4 with 20-22. He had 5 games with 5 turnovers and another 5 with more than 5 including some nights of 7 and 8.

He's still probably a top 5 player but he's no longer consistently dominant in the regular season - he picks and chooses his spots. If he can turn it on in the playoffs the way he did in 2018 then his self load management is obviously worth it. (Although it's kind of fucky considering he got a 4 month vacation and we're playing less games - but I'll try and hold my tounge on that aspect)

He's leading the league in assists.  If you don't watch him play and only try to glean his impact on a game from the stat sheet, you won't see it.  Top 5?  C'mon man.  He is the 2nd best player in the game and it isn't close.  To claim otherwise is to just be a hater.

[ztejas 44317]

8 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

He's leading the league in assists.  If you don't watch him play and only try to glean his impact on a game from the stat sheet, you won't see it.  Top 5?  C'mon man.  He is the 2nd best player in the game and it isn't close.  To claim otherwise is to just be a hater.

Okay Nick Wright. He's 9th in PER, 6th in win shares, 10th in WS/48, 4th in BPM, 3rd in VORP - the only advanced metric he's top 2 in is ESPN's RPM - which last year had Paul George #1, LeBron #9, Durant #11 and Kawhi #31.

[Sbbruin 22149]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Okay Nick Wright. He's 9th in PER, 6th in win shares, 10th in WS/48, 4th in BPM, 3rd in VORP - the only advanced metric he's top 2 in is ESPN's RPM - which last year had Paul George #1, LeBron #9, Durant #11 and Kawhi #31.

OK, statman.  Have every GM and coach in the NBA pick a player to lead them to the playoffs with THIS season.  LBJ would be #2 on everyone's list.

[Mitch Cumsteen 19007]

Giannis is the MVP this year. I hate to admit it, but Lebron is still the best player in the league though, even at his advanced age. The Clippers are a terrible match up for him. Nobody else in the league can throw even one guy who matches up with him as well as Paul George or Kawhi does, and they have two. Still, he dominated the end of that game. He made the game winning shot off his own miss, repeatedly stoned Kawhi whenever he had the ball on offense down the stretch and switched out to make George take a bad three to end the game.  I still have some doubts about the Lakers championship aspirations with Avery Bradley and Rondo out, but they are going to be right there at the end.

With regard to the Clips, they were without Lou Williams and Montrezl Harrell. Shamet and Zubac have hardly practiced and either has Patrick Beverly. That is a nasty and really deep team. I don't know that the depth matters so much once you get into the playoffs, especially now that travel is irrelevant, but they are going to be a problem in the playoffs for anybody who faces them. I would be pretty surprised if last night wasn't a WCF preview.

[ztejas 44317]

3 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

OK, statman.  Have every GM and coach in the NBA pick a player to lead them to the playoffs with THIS season.  LBJ would be #2 on everyone's list.

To the playoffs or in the playoffs? Because the latter I might agree with. I wouldn't take him over Harden or Giannis in the regular season. I wouldn't take him over Kawhi in the playoffs. If I have an elite ball distributor and orchestrator already I'm not sure I take him over Davis. 

Yes I'm aware that hes better than the 7th best player in the league - but no I'm not sold that hes's the clear cut #2 right now. The fact that there are plenty of nights where he isn't the best player on his team doesn't help his case - nor does the fact that he barely cracked .500 in games he played last year before Davis showed up.

[Sbbruin 22149]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

To the playoffs or in the playoffs? Because the latter I might agree with. I wouldn't take him over Harden or Giannis in the regular season. I wouldn't take him over Kawhi in the playoffs. If I have an elite ball distributor and orchestrator already I'm not sure I take him over Davis. 

Yes I'm aware that hes better than the 7th best player in the league - but no I'm not sold that hes's the clear cut #2 right now. The fact that there are plenty of nights where he isn't the best player on his team doesn't help his case - nor does the fact that he barely cracked .500 in games he played last year before Davis showed up.

Sorry.  In.  But the nights when he isn't the best player on his team is only because the Lakers have another top 5-7 player.  That happens.  Like last night.

[ztejas 44317]

7 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Still, he dominated the end of that game. He made the game winning shot off his own miss, repeatedly stoned Kawhi whenever he had the ball on offense down the stretch and switched out to make George take a bad three to end the game. 

He also shot 30% from the field and had 16 points and 7 assists to 5 turnovers. I have no idea why anyone would use last night as a talking point for the shape his game is in when he was pretty dog shit by LeBron standards. 

[ztejas 44317]

3 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

But the nights when he isn't the best player on his team is only because the Lakers have another top 5-7 player. 

Which is also the only reason you're sitting at 1st in the West and not fighting for a 6th seed...

[Sbbruin 22149]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Which is also the only reason you're sitting at 1st in the West and not fighting for a 6th seed...

Of course.  That's the idea.  Assemble the best talent you can.  And we have.

[Mitch Cumsteen 19007]

12 minutes ago, ztejas said:

He also shot 30% from the field and had 16 points and 7 assists to 5 turnovers. I have no idea why anyone would use last night as a talking point for the shape his game is in when he was pretty dog shit by LeBron standards. 

Did you watch the game or just read the box score? He had a bad shooting night playing against the best two wing defenders in the league, but he dominated when the game was on the line. What he did on the court made the difference between winning in losing. That's about as good of a talking point as I can make.

[ztejas 44317]

11 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Did you watch the game or just read the box score? He had a bad shooting night playing against the best two wing defenders in the league, but he dominated when the game was on the line. What he did on the court made the difference between winning in losing. That's about as good of a talking point as I can make.

AD had a bad shooting night, Kawhi had a bad shooting night - LeBron had an awful shooting night. And if we're going to make excuses because he's playing Kawhi and PG then that's kind of proving the point I'm making. Of course they won the game and he showed up late - he's still LeBron James. But his play last night was the difference between a comfortable win and a close win - not a close win and a loss (unless you think he's capable of playing worse - in which case he shouldn't be anywhere near best player in the league discussion).

I mean if the takeaway from last night is "He's still got it, he can show up when it matters, he's still LeBron!" then I agree. If it's "Wow - he's still the best player in the league!" then I'm rolling my eyes. I could make the case he was the 4th best player on the court last night over 48 minutes. 

[ztejas 44317]

Look - I get it. The NBA is back. We're excited. We haven't seen anyone play in 4 months. The Lakers won in dramatic fashion.

I'm going to watch Dame, Luka, Harden and Giannis tonight before I resume this discussion. 

[washparkhorn 9974]

Last possession - Caldwell-Pope saved the game for the Lakers by recognizing LBJ was letting Leonard loose and ball chasing. Caldwell-Pope switched to Leonard, smothered him, which denied George his outlet pass and forced George to take a low percentage shot. LBJ teammates have adapted well to LBJ's weaknesses - which is what good teams do. 

LBJ following his shot for the game winner showcases his court awareness. 

(Not a Laker/LBJ fan) 

_____

Big game of the day today is DAL/HOU. Snow White v. the Seven Dwarfs. My money is on the ankle biters. Houston's system is much simpler. But if "My Name is Luka" has a hot hand tonight, Dallas could dominate. It is a good matchup. 

 

[ztejas 44317]

30 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Last possession - Caldwell-Pope saved the game for the Lakers by recognizing LBJ was letting Leonard loose and ball chasing. Caldwell-Pope switched to Leonard, smothered him, which denied George his outlet pass and forced George to take a low percentage shot. LBJ teammates have adapted well to LBJ's weaknesses - which is what good teams do. 

LBJ following his shot for the game winner showcases his court awareness. 

(Not a Laker/LBJ fan) 

_____

Big game of the day today is DAL/HOU. Snow White v. the Seven Dwarfs. My money is on the ankle biters. Houston's system is much simpler. But if "My Name is Luka" has a hot hand tonight, Dallas could dominate. It is a good matchup. 

 

Will be interested to see how Houston kicks off despite Gordon still being out. I think the break will benefit Harden as much as anyone in the league. He has come into April being a little gassed the past few seasons. The break might hurt Luka - he doesn't need the rest and has much less experience managing his game and body in off periods than the more seasoned stars do.

I think Milwaukee is going to kick the shit out of Boston. 

[conVINCEd 21478]

35 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Will be interested to see how Houston kicks off despite Gordon still being out. I think the break will benefit Harden as much as anyone in the league. He has come into April being a little gassed the past few seasons. The break might hurt Luka - he doesn't need the rest and has much less experience managing his game and body in off periods than the more seasoned stars do.

I think Milwaukee is going to kick the shit out of Boston. 

Luka was real fucking banged up prior to the break.  Wrist, thumb, and ankle have all had time to heal.

[Mitch Cumsteen 19007]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

 But his play last night was the difference between a comfortable win and a close win - not a close win and a loss (unless you think he's capable of playing worse - in which case he shouldn't be anywhere near best player in the league discussion).. 

I don't even understand what this means. They lose the game without LeBron playing last night. Are you saying the only reason the game was even close is because he was so terrible for the first 46 minutes? Like he sandbagging so he could do some dramatic shit to show off?

And I say all of this as a registered Laker and Lebron hater, but it is a ridiculous standard to which he is held. It's not enough to create and score the winning basket while shutting down another MVP candidate down the stretch. He didn't win convincingly enough. If Kawhi had done that to him in the last two minutes, they would be burying Lebron today. 

 

[ztejas 44317]

8 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Luka was real fucking banged up prior to the break.  Wrist, thumb, and ankle have all had time to heal.

True. He's had some nagging injuries. He was still playing great ball though. 

[Dr Fear 1298]

I'm anticipating a Nets players only meeting tonight where they all agree to go to a strip club so they get booted from the bubble.

[Drew 2941]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Will be interested to see how Houston kicks off despite Gordon still being out. I think the break will benefit Harden as much as anyone in the league. He has come into April being a little gassed the past few seasons. The break might hurt Luka - he doesn't need the rest and has much less experience managing his game and body in off periods than the more seasoned stars do.

I think Milwaukee is going to kick the shit out of Boston. 

Major Disagree on Luka.  Not only has it been discussed that he was dealing with nagging injuries and a banged up wrist that never had a chance to heal, if anyone saw him play at all in the scrimmages he picked up right where he left off.  I agree with the idea that he didn't need the rest as he's young...but he needed the time to heal up.

[Beau Vine 55911]

Wow, Morant just completely took over...

[TommyGufano 6027]

Hate being "the refs stink" guy, but some bad officiating down the stretch.

 

[Dr Fear 1298]

Carmelo nails two late 3s, up by 2 with 37 seconds left.

[conVINCEd 21478]

14 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Hate being "the refs stink" guy, but some bad officiating down the stretch.

 

It’s fine as long as you are a neutral observer.

[Kermit 3166]

So far the NBA is 3 for 3 on televised games. It’s good to have basketball back in our lives.

[ztejas 44317]

The Bucks are a rare legit 10 deep team. Off the top of my head, the only ones we've seen recently are Toronto last season, GS in  2016 and the Spurs in 2014.

[Underdog 29262]

The whole Bucks Org should come down with the Covid for bringing those stupid uniforms to Orlando.  

[ztejas 44317]

Is anyone watching this game? This shit is fucking absurd. 6 minutes left in the 4th and the Mavs have players with 32, 28, 26 and 24 points.

[Kermit 3166]

This fucking game is nuts.

[washparkhorn 9974]

What a game - the Seven Dwarfs squeak by Snow White. Love that the NBA is back.

 

[Pancho 46503]

So none of the games today are going to be close?  

[Kermit 3166]

You know what would really make 2020 even better? Kawhi wining another title. 

[BradInATX 9208]

You know what would really make 2020 even better? Kawhi wining another title. 

.

[Blotto 24049]

Why is Zion on a minutes restriction? Yeah i realize he left the bubble and had to re-quarantine, but now that he's been cleared to play its not like he's coming off an injury. He was regularly logging 30+ minutes before the shutdown. Doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

[ztejas 44317]

This Wizards/Nets game is so fucking unnecessary. They both suck. Washington isn't making the playoffs. Go home. 

[ztejas 44317]

20 hours ago, Kermit said:

You know what would really make 2020 even better? Kawhi wining another title. 

I need the Bucks to whip ass the whole way through like they are capable of. I can't handle the Lakers or Clippers winning.

[Sbbruin 22149]

Lakers about to clinch #1 in the west.  Not sure how home court is a big advantage though.

[washparkhorn 9974]

44 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Lakers about to clinch #1 in the west.  Not sure how home court is a big advantage though.

It is quite an accomplishment in the West. But I agree - there is no real home court advantage. They will play the survivor of the 8th seed derby. I think Portland gives them the most trouble in the first round out of those competing for the last spot - Pels and SAS are solid, but Portland appears to best equipped to win games against the Lakers. 

For the 2-7 spots, i am not sure it makes any difference. 2-7 is solid. It all becomes the matchups and injuries for 2-7. Houston and Dallas have amazing offenses. Denver is deep and only needs one other guy to get hot each game - since Jokic is so consistent (another triple double today - Michael Porter, Jr. had the hot hand to help out today). OKC's season is a big surprise - since they are rebuilding. Utah has Gobert, Conley and Mitchell, although I think the good teams have figured out how to beat them. 

Should be a great Western Conference playoffs. 

The east is a joke once you get past Tor and Mil. Boston would be fighting for the 8th seed spot if they were in the West. Philly is overrated - east coast myopia. Miami is solid, but inconsistent. Pacers could be a sleeper. Magic, Nets and Wizards - wouldn't make the playoff if they lived in the West. 

 

[Dr Fear 1298]

I just saw an early Bucks/Nets line for tomorrow at -18.5, good lord.

[washparkhorn 9974]

Wow. Now watch Mil. bench their starting line up.  

Is anyone going to be surprised if the Lakers, then the Bucks and Toronto, just played a walk through every game toward the end of the seeding tourney?

Denver Coach has said the Nuggets will fight to win each game they play, but the seeding tournament is more than wins and losses. Denver is hurt, so Malone is basically auditioning the bigs on the team for playing time in the playoffs. Denver has some unique formations with the availability of a point-center. It works, but it looks like goulash. 

It is going to be a fun playoff season. 

Oh and the refs need to chill. Too many whistles and stoppages. Let 'em play basketball.  

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by washparkhorn