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2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

Goo Punch

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Hate
Hate

Well, at least you know he won’t spread it around very efficiently.

Vic Mackey
Vic Mackey

Fans should be able to come back now. They have zero issues with gathering into thousands to protest all around the country so why should they care if people want to go to games and gather in crowds i

Kermit
Kermit

You see, the Clippers are comprised of bitches, coached by a bitch, and are owned by a bitch. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21477

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I don't think they are poised to be in contention for several years. They are a perennial playoff team but even in the top heavy east, Milwaukee, Boston, Toronto, Brooklyn have better rosters than they do. And none of them bottomed out for extended periods of time and fucked their fans (and the rest of the league) in the ass to get there. The Sixers had four consecutive seasons of 19-63, 18-64, 10-72 (ten fucking wins!) and 28-54. That's nearly half a decade of purposefully losing and putting their fans through complete hell. Not to mention how antithetical the process is to competitive sports in general and to the NBA in particular. Not only did they subject their own fans to intentionally terrible basketball, but when they went on the road they had to subject every other team (and fan) in the league to it as well. I had Spurs season tickets during that time and I had the privilege to pay full price to watch the Washington Generals.

And for what? They have two superstars, neither of whom can stay healthy, a terrible cap situation going forward, and little depth on a poorly constructed roster. For all of that tanking, they should be the deepest team in the league with draft capital for years. They aren't anywhere close to that. 

Does the fact that they did it on purpose make it better or worse?  As a Mavs fan, the 90’s were worse than that 5 year stretch for Philly.  And they were theoretically trying to win.  The  Clippers entire team history prior to the last 10 or so years.  The last 15 years for the Knicks.  MJ’s ownership tenure in Charlotte.  Again, as a Mavs fan in the 90’s, having a clearly defined plan would have actually made me feel a little better about the whole ordeal.  During that 5 year stretch for Philly,  if I were a Philly fan, I think I would have been happier as a fan than if I was cheering for the Knicks or Charlotte, both of whom randomly fling shit at the wall and hope it leads to winning.

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d2o

d2o 1603

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Does the fact that they did it on purpose make it better or worse?  As a Mavs fan, the 90’s were worse than that 5 year stretch for Philly.  And they were theoretically trying to win.  The  Clippers entire team history prior to the last 10 or so years.  The last 15 years for the Knicks.  MJ’s ownership tenure in Charlotte.  Again, as a Mavs fan in the 90’s, having a clearly defined plan would have actually made me feel a little better about the whole ordeal.  During that 5 year stretch for Philly,  if I were a Philly fan, I think I would have been happier as a fan than if I was cheering for the Knicks or Charlotte, both of whom randomly fling shit at the wall and hope it leads to winning.

Yes the fact that they were flagrantly and apologetically doing it makes it worse.    You can make plenty argument for all those other teams you mentioned just being totally inept.   That is a problem but far less of a problem than a team doing all they can to lose as much as they can and then acting like they "out--thinking" everyone else by doing so.

Further, if you do it, it damn sure better be an overwhelming success.    It has not been.

Edited by d2o
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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3989

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

the problem is games start at noon on the west coast. the prime time game starts at 6pm out there.  you're going to lose a lot of audience because of that.

This is a large part of it.  People looking for a magic bullet why the ratings are down are reaching big time.  The games in the playoffs start in the afternoon, not prime time like every other year.  The season was pushed back to coincide with baseball/hockey and other sports having their playoffs or playoff push going on and there was already cord cutting going on which will continue to impact ratings.  The politicalization of some players or their stances is pretty much just white noise in the background.  Let's see if there is a basic trend for next year if they have a regular playoff schedule going on.  

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According to Nielsen numbers, NBA viewership (P2+) was down around 13% versus last season before the shutdown (prior to March 12). The first week of games since the re-start were down 4% from the NBA’s pre-corona average, however, primetime games on ESPN and TNT in that same time period were up 6% in viewership when compared with the first chunk of the season....

In fact, according to industry sources, NBA viewership post-shutdown is up 8% versus the prior year, when compared with spring 2019 end-of-season games. But it is worth noting that number is comparing the same games and windows as last season, meaning that it doesn’t take the afternoon or pre-primetime games the league has been forced to schedule into account, given that there are no direct comparisons.

“There is no proper context to compare the current NBA viewership post-COVID to any regular season,” says Tom McGovern, president of Omnicom Group’s sports media division Optimum Sports. “You’ve got an increased number of broadcast windows and start times that are an anomaly for this current season. The number of windows alone is going to dilute your average rating, you’ll have no West Coast prime time.”

“The biggest competition right now is summer. There’s a reason why most sports don’t play in July and August, it’s because PUTs are down and you’re competing with lifestyle,” McGovern says. “I would say anybody who’s looking at average rating and say it’s down or up would be irresponsible. There’s no context to it, there are no comparables.”

The packed schedule that the NBA has been forced into as a result of COVID could also be a contributing factor. Many of the games are being played in the early afternoon or late morning, depending on which coast you’re on, which obviously would not be the case normally. Take the the first round of playoff games which begin next week as an example. Just yesterday, the Utah Jazz and the Denver Nuggets tipped off at 10:30am PT, while later in the week, the Indiana Pacers and the Miami Heat will play the second game in their series at 10am PT on a Thursday.

Plus no Steph or KD or Warriors.....

 

Edited by Patrick Bateman
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Bartles

Bartles 769

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, d2o said:

Yes the fact that they were flagrantly and apologetically doing it makes it worse.    You can make plenty argument for all those other teams you mentioned just being totally inept.   That is a problem but far less of a problem than a team doing all they can to lose as much as they can and then acting like they "out--thinking" everyone else by doing so.

Further, if you do it, it damn sure better be an overwhelming success.    It has not been.

As a fan living in Philly, most people really supported the process although a lot of season ticket holders were upset (and left).  Others rallied behind the guys like TJ McConnell and Robert Covington who we knew deserved better, and eventually got to enjoy some success.

I mainly argue that what Hinkie started, within the rules, worked out almost exactly as planned in terms of collecting picks staggered over time to also allow financial flexibility. It should have resulted in a multi-year shot at the finals, instead they continually flubbed personnel decisions and the 2019 game 7 loss to Kawhi is probably as far as Embiid/Simmons will ever get with this team.

I agree season-long tanking is not good for the game, and don't want to see it again to that extent. Obviously the current powers who either paid and/or developed their way to the top are a better model for others.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 19007

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bartles said:

It should have resulted in a multi-year shot at the finals, instead they continually flubbed personnel decisions ...

This discussion prompted me to go back and look all those picks and transactions. I didn't realize how bad they shit the bed.  I suppose that's the main takeaway from the process --- there is no substitute for good player evaluation and development, and smart front office moves. The idea that you are going to get as many shots on goal as possible to increase the chances of landing a superstar is legit, but so fucking what if you are going to trade a first rounder for the right to pass on Jason Tatum and get Markelle Fultz instead. 

They really made a mess out of all of those picks. Embiid was a strategic, long term good risk that warranted them rolling the dice. But my gosh... Okafor over Porzingis or Devon Booker was a tough one, especially since they already had Embiid. Ben Simmons was a no brainer but they had two late first round picks that draft and took Furkan Korkmaz and Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot instead of guys like Pascal Siakim, Dejounte Murray, Malcolm Brogdan or Ivaca Zubac. The Fultz deal was awful but they also had 4 second round picks that year and none of them have panned out.  They draft/traded Mikal Bridges (a Philly native btw who is starting for Phoenix and played pretty damn well in the bubble) to get Zaire Smith who has 13 career NBA games under his belt in two years plus a 2021 draft pick that they will probably fuck up also.

The two things that they actually did right were: 1) drafting Landry Shamet who they promptly decided to ship off to the Clippers AND two first round picks (that the Clips used to land Kawhi/Paul George) for the right to horribly overpay Tobias Harris; and 2) discovered/developed Robert Covington just so they could end up trading him to rent Jimmy Butler for half a season. And let's not forget money whipping Al Horford, who they will be paying $26.5 million for when he's 36. Just an unprecedented run of terrible personnel moves and I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of them.

 

 

Edited by Mitch Cumsteen
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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21477

Posted
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31 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

This discussion prompted me to go back and look all those picks and transactions. I didn't realize how bad they shit the bed.  I suppose that's the main takeaway from the process --- there is no substitute for good player evaluation and development, and smart front office moves. The idea that you are going to get as many shots on goal as possible to increase the chances of landing a superstar is legit, but so fucking what if you are going to trade a first rounder for the right to pass on Jason Tatum and get Markelle Fultz instead. 

They really made a mess out of all of those picks. Embiid was a strategic, long term good risk that warranted them rolling the dice. But my gosh... Okafor over Porzingis or Devon Booker was a tough one, especially since they already had Embiid. Ben Simmons was a no brainer but they had two late first round picks that draft and took Furkan Korkmaz and Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot instead of guys like Pascal Siakim, Dejounte Murray, Malcolm Brogdan or Ivaca Zubac. The Fultz deal was awful but they also had 4 second round picks that year and none of them have panned out.  They draft/traded Mikal Bridges (a Philly native btw who is starting for Phoenix and played pretty damn well in the bubble) to get Zaire Smith who has 13 career NBA games under his belt in two years plus a 2021 draft pick that they will probably fuck up also.

The two things that they actually did right were: 1) drafting Landry Shamet who they promptly decided to ship off to the Clippers AND two first round picks (that the Clips used to land Kawhi/Paul George) for the right to horribly overpay Tobias Harris; and 2) discovered/developed Robert Covington just so they could end up trading him to rent Jimmy Butler for half a season. And let's not forget money whipping Al Horford, who they will be paying $26.5 million for when he's 36. Just an unprecedented run of terrible personnel moves and I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of them.

 

 

I think you did a good job of hitting the high points.  So it was a good plan that was poorly executed, mixed with some bad injury luck?  The Astros and Cubs used the same playbook in MLB and both have rings.  Cleveland is trying to do it in the NFL, and early returns aren’t very good, but if they ultimately fail, it will be because they picked the wrong QB.  The NBA Did the right thing by adjusting the lottery odds to discourage behavior they believe is detrimental to the league as a whole, but in a sport where 95% of championships are won by a team with a top 5 player, it’s a pretty sound strategy to do everything you can to acquire one of those players.  Philly got two guys who at times have looked like they might be one of those players.  If you are in a market that is not attractive to FAs, the draft is your only hope.

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ztejas

ztejas 44296

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7 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Philly got two guys who at times have looked like they might be one of those players.  

I have never seen Embiid or Simmons play at a top 5 player in the league level. Maybe if Embiid was able to play more minutes. Top 10-15 is more where they fall. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21477

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Just now, ztejas said:

I have never seen Embiid or Simmons play at a top 5 player in the league level. Maybe if Embiid was able to play more minutes. Top 10-15 is more where they fall. 

I meant at times they have looked like guys who could become a top 5 player.  At various points in their careers you certainly could have made that statement and  not been laughed out of the room.

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d2o

d2o 1603

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20 minutes ago, Kermit said:

I’d say Embiid’s main flaw is effort. If he actually gave a shit, Philly would be in a much better place.

A huge point.    He thinks he is better than he is.    He seems to think that if he just shows up the other teams will just fold.     There also is the fact that they dont have another PG on their roster outside of Simmons and they dont know how to feed the post.     They go long stretches just ignoring him in the post no matter how much of a mismatch he may have.   That is on the coach.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9974

Posted
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Oh boy.

The Lakers are in trouble, Erneh.

The Lakers are what is wrong with the NBA. Fabricated narratives to prop up a fading star because the World needs a mythic merchandising hero. 

I love the current format - It is all about the basketball for the most part. Remove the game from the constant hype-machine and we see a purer form of the sport. 

. . . and Kuzma is a bench player on the deeper teams . . . AND Jordan and Kobe would have strangled him. 

Edited by washparkhorn
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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10100

Posted
Posted
The Lakers are what is wrong with the NBA. Fabricated narratives to prop up a fading star because the World needs a mythic merchandising hero. 
I love the current format - It is all about the basketball for the most part. Remove the game from the constant hype-machine and we see a purer form of the sport. 
. . . and Kuzma is a bench player on the deeper teams . . . AND Jordan and Kobe would have strangled him. 

Jordan would have told the caterer to not serve him first, before he killed him.
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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9974

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I like your suggestion - trade down to get Obi. He fits that team. (And then get him a sports psych to work on that FT %. No reason why his FT% should be 71%.) Son and I were just chatting about OBToppin. 

MIN only loses if they insert the Ball Virus into that team. I seriously would ask KAT to get buy-in on the pick.  

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aggie08

aggie08 21854

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Streaky - when he is on, he is the perfect complement to Dame.  

You can probably count on one hand the number of playoff games in their history that both Dame and CJ played well. So hard to call that a perfect compliment.

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