2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[Wulaw Horn 19,560]

I’m not sure the lakers have enough scoring punch to keep up with the Rockets. I know they don’t if LBJ and AD are combining for 40 instead of 60 or 70. 
Also it’s really silly to see them playing Howard or Javale imo. AD at the 5 and LBJ at the 4 is Plenty big enough to have a significant size advantage without degrading your skill set. 
All that said Harden played at an A level tonight.  Not sure if he can do that 4 or 5 more times in this series like he might have to, bc they are capable of beating Houston even when Harden has an A game. 
Clips are a rolling ball of butcher knives. They might not lose 4 more games the rest of the playoffs let alone in 1 round. 

[Radical Larry 28,814]

 

[aggie08 21,733]

40 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m not sure the lakers have enough scoring punch to keep up with the Rockets. I know they don’t if LBJ and AD are combining for 40 instead of 60 or 70. 
Also it’s really silly to see them playing Howard or Javale imo. AD at the 5 and LBJ at the 4 is Plenty big enough to have a significant size advantage without degrading your skill set. 
All that said Harden played at an A level tonight.  Not sure if he can do that 4 or 5 more times in this series like he might have to, bc they are capable of beating Houston even when Harden has an A game. 
Clips are a rolling ball of butcher knives. They might not lose 4 more games the rest of the playoffs let alone in 1 round. 

AD doesn't want to play the 5 because reasons.

[immortal13 4,059]

I think it's going to end up Clippers vs Heat

[aggie08 21,733]

2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Who cares..... Cleveland probably beats the Warriors again without KD.  We've been through this.... it's all conjecture, but most of the data points to W's being one and done.

 

I know we've disagreed on this in the past and I really don't want to get into it again, but this is such horseshit. A healthy Warriors team was better than any of the Cavs' teams. They would have competed for the title every year, with or without KD. Hell, they would have won last year with a healthy Klay, despite having a shit-tastic bench because all of their cap was spent on KD and Steph.

That said, there's absolutely no way that they win 3 or go to 5 consecutive Finals without KD. But this "they would have been one and done" without KD logic is heavily flawed.

[ztejas 44,114]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

AD at the 5 and LBJ at the 4 is Plenty big enough to have a significant size advantage without degrading your skill set. 

I guess. LeBron ain't 25 anymore. He can't bang down low on both ends for 40 minutes. 

I probably agree that they don't need to be running Dwight or Javale out there. But shit... their bench is pretty thin. I mean are they going to start giving JR Smith minutes and playing Waiters 25 minutes a night? 

Bottom line is that AD needs to be better. He has games like tonight where he seems kind of passive and hesitant but he's shown in the past that he can turn it around.

[Wulaw Horn 19,560]

47 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

AD doesn't want to play the 5 because reasons.

Oh I’m aware. Just tell him he’s not playing the 5- he’s playing the 3- as that’s what position PJ Tucker is. 

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

56 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

I think it's going to end up Clippers vs Heat

I'll still say Celtics v Clippers, but how can I deny the heat at this point.

Edited September 5, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[aggie08 21,733]

5 hours ago, ztejas said:

I guess. LeBron ain't 25 anymore. He can't bang down low on both ends for 40 minutes. 

I probably agree that they don't need to be running Dwight or Javale out there. But shit... their bench is pretty thin. I mean are they going to start giving JR Smith minutes and playing Waiters 25 minutes a night? 

Bottom line is that AD needs to be better. He has games like tonight where he seems kind of passive and hesitant but he's shown in the past that he can turn it around.

I don't know if I'd categorize having to guard Robert Covington and Jeff Green as "banging down low" but the rest of your point stands; if they want to go more than 6 deep, someone needs minutes, and the Javale/Dwight tag team can't be too much worse than throwing even more playing time to Caruso and the lesser Morris twin.

[TonyTexas 10,683]

7 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Agreed.  It was a bad matchup for the Lakers.  But trying to win a series on 3 point shooting is a tall order.

Rockets took one more 3 than the Lakers. 

[Pimphand 6,266]

I hope the Lakers keep trying to shoot threes with the Rockets especially given how poorly they have shot them in Orlando.

[aggie08 21,733]

7 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I know we've disagreed on this in the past and I really don't want to get into it again, but this is such horseshit. A healthy Warriors team was better than any of the Cavs' teams. They would have competed for the title every year, with or without KD. Hell, they would have won last year with a healthy Klay, despite having a shit-tastic bench because all of their cap was spent on KD and Steph.

That said, there's absolutely no way that they win 3 or go to 5 consecutive Finals without KD. But this "they would have been one and done" without KD logic is heavily flawed.

Sorry, had a little too much to drink last night. Don't want to rehash this completely hypothetical debate for the hundredth time while there are actual playoff games taking place. My bad.

Delete user, ban post yadda, yadda, yadda

[Sbbruin 22,082]

2 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Rockets took one more 3 than the Lakers. 

And that’s why they lost.  They can’t play that way.

[Vic Mackey 47,847]

I think it's going to end up Clippers vs Heat

As of now, I think the same. Clippers are the deepest team in the West. I don't see Houston or LA taking them down. No one is stopping Kawhi at this point. He can get anything he wants whenever he needs to.

[d2o 1,603]

Just catching up:

I know PJ plays him tough but if AD cant avg 30+/12-15 against these midgets then fuck him he aint the guy that he has been billed as.   That was the whole reason he was brought in.  To fucking dominate.

No way can the Lakers win trying to outshoot the Rockets.   Fucking foolish for that to even be a thought of doing.

 

Giannis has been bad without a doubt but the Heat are a terrible matchup for the Bucks.   They have multiple smart defenders who are big and quick enough to give him trouble.  The talk about his supporting cast is off.   Middleton and Lopez have combined for 40-50ppg.  They've got another 20+ppg from Bledsoe and Hill.  There is not way they should be losing games with that production from the others getting that if Giannis was dominating like he normally has.   Leaving after folding up like this its a HUGE bitch move.  Its not his teammates, its him.

The larger problem that many dont talk about it Bud.   He has long history of GREAT reg seasons followed up by massive playoff flameouts.   Its prolly time.......

They need to get Giannis off the ball more.   It would be nice if Giannis could shoot better but I think this emphasis by many on him being able to shoot is misplaced.   This philosophy of him having the ball out top most of the time is the problem and that goes back to Bud. There were a few possessions where he got catches at the FT line and he scored easily or was able to hit a cutter for a layup cause the whole defense was focused on him.   No idea why they dont do that more.     

And yeah choosing to keep Bledsoe over paying Brogdon was a massive failure.

 

[Drew 2,833]

On 9/3/2020 at 8:00 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

There’s way more than 1 black GM in the league. Off of the top of my head you have

Masai Ujuri - Raptors 

Elton Brand - 76ers

Calvin Booth -Nuggets

Scott Perry - Knicks 

and I’m pretty sure there are a few more

Damn I did forget about Brand.  That's more than I thought so I'll definitely take that loss. Still seems way less then there should be...I've seen coaches come and go.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just catching up: I know PJ plays him tough but if AD cant avg 30+/12-15 against these midgets then fuck him he aint the guy that he has been billed as.   That was the whole reason he was brought in.  To fucking dominate. No way can the Lakers win trying to outshoot the Rockets.   Fucking foolish for that to even be a thought of doing.   Giannis has been bad without a doubt but the Heat are a terrible matchup for the Bucks.   They have multiple smart defenders who are big and quick enough to give him trouble.  The talk about his supporting cast is off.   Middleton and Lopez have combined for 40-50ppg.  They've got another 20+ppg from Bledsoe and Hill.  There is not way they should be losing games with that production from the others getting that if Giannis was dominating like he normally has.   Leaving after folding up like this its a HUGE bitch move.  Its not his teammates, its him.

The larger problem that many dont talk about it Bud.   He has long history of GREAT reg seasons followed up by massive playoff flameouts.   Its prolly time.......

They need to get Giannis off the ball more.   It would be nice if Giannis could shoot better but I think this emphasis by many on him being able to shoot is misplaced.   This philosophy of him having the ball out top most of the time is the problem and that goes back to Bud. There were a few possessions where he got catches at the FT line and he scored easily or was able to hit a cutter for a layup cause the whole defense was focused on him.   No idea why they dont do that more.     

And yeah choosing to keep Bledsoe over paying Brogdon was a massive failure.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything you've said here except putting the blame on Giannis. That's crazy. You could plug any two average players into your 2nd and 3rd creator spots and Giannis' gravity alone will get them 40 ppg. The problem is that those guys pose no threat individually and allow teams to cheat 2nd and 3rd defenders towards GA. Spend a few minutes next game following Bledsoe and Middleton without taking eyes off of them and watch how the Heat defend. Absolutely no respect. Lopez commands more defensive energy than those guys. Bledsoe is a minus defender and Middleton is terrible.   

 

Lopez isn't meant to be their #2 guy and never was, but he's legitimately the 2nd best player on the team. Lopez is a good player but when he's your 2nd best guy, you've got major roster problems.

 

They need a true #2 that's a wing defender to take pressure off of Giannis on both sides of the ball. If you do that, slide Middleton down to a third scorer spot, Lopez 4th, and replace Bledsoe with someone competent, then you have the makings of a team.

 

We've gone back and forth but I respect your bball knowledge. That said, blaming Giannis is absolute crazy talk. That's a 25 win team if you replace GA with an average frontcourt starter. It's not his fault that in the playoffs when the game bogs down to mostly halfcourt sets, the opposing defense gives no respect to the perimeter. It's also not his fault that they have one of the worst wing defenses in basketball. He can't be everywhere at once.

 

If he went to Miami, they would be terrifying. He and Jimmy Business Trips compliment each other so well on both sides of the floor. It's such a natural fit I don't see how it doesn't happen. Those two plus all the young hustle guys who can shoot are easily front runners unless the Warriors recapture the magic and youth from 3 years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

[d2o 1,603]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

I agree with everything you've said here except putting the blame on Giannis. That's crazy. You could plug any two average players into your 2nd and 3rd creator spots and Giannis' gravity alone will get them 40 ppg. The problem is that those guys pose no threat individually and allow teams to cheat 2nd and 3rd defenders towards GA. Spend a few minutes next game following Bledsoe and Middleton without taking eyes off of them and watch how the Heat defend. Absolutely no respect. Lopez commands more defensive energy than those guys. Bledsoe is a minus defender and Middleton is terrible.

They need a true #2 that's a wing defender to take pressure off of Giannis on both sides of the ball. If you do that, slide Middleton down to a third scorer spot, Lopez 4th, and replace Bledsoe with someone competent, then you have the makings of a team.

We've gone back and forth but I respect your bball knowledge. That said, blaming Giannis is absolute crazy talk. That's a 25 win team if you replace GA with an average frontcourt starter.

Sure during the reg season.   Playoffs require more.   He has not played well in this series. Shooting 45% from the field, 15% from 3 and only 54% from the line.  The Heat have figured him out.   Truly great players have a counter for their opponents counter.  That said, I put far more blame on Bud for not having any adjustments and thinking they can play exactly like they did in the reg season and win the same way.

Middleton is avg'ing 23.7/5/6.7asts.   Not sure how much more you want from a #2.   Lopez is avging 20 and shooting 60% and 50% from 3.   Not sure how you can try and put this on the supporting cast.      I LOVE Giannis as much as anyone and he deserves all of the accolades he's got.  If he gets that kinda production from those two guys he is supposed to be able to bring it home.  This is on him and Bud for not putting him in a better situation .

[Francisco 2.0 32,543]

From the Reddit Rockets/Lakers postgame thread:

 

 

 

[ztejas 44,114]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

They need to get Giannis off the ball more.   It would be nice if Giannis could shoot better but I think this emphasis by many on him being able to shoot is misplaced.   This philosophy of him having the ball out top most of the time is the problem and that goes back to Bud. There were a few possessions where he got catches at the FT line and he scored easily or was able to hit a cutter for a layup cause the whole defense was focused on him.   No idea why they dont do that more.     

If he's not going to be able to take 5-6 3s at a 30+% clip every night then he might as well get bigger and work on his basically non-existent post game. 

He doesn't need to shoot from outside if you gave him anything close to Shaq's footwork or Kareem or Duncan's touch with the ball. Just sit at the elbow or the block, force a double team and either score anyway or kick it out to a shooter. 

I mean he's won two MVPs relying basically on straight athleticism, ball handling and natural IQ. Maybe he needs to go... you know, work on his game? It would be sad if the pace and space 3 ball era distracted him from becoming a true all-time great.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Sure during the reg season.   Playoffs require more.   He has not played well in this series. Shooting 45% from the field, 15% from 3 and only 54% from the line.  The Heat have figured him out.   Truly great players have a counter for their opponents counter.  That said, I put far more blame on Bud for not having any adjustments and thinking they can play exactly like they did in the reg season and win the same way.
Middleton is avg'ing 23.7/5/6.7asts.   Not sure how much more you want from a #2.   Lopez is avging 20 and shooting 60% and 50% from 3.   Not sure how you can try and put this on the supporting cast.      I LOVE Giannis as much as anyone and he deserves all of the accolades he's got.  If he gets that kinda production from those two guys he is supposed to be able to bring it home.  This is on him and Bud for not putting him in a better situation .

I agree with you that he's struggling against the Heat. Some of that is on him and some is on the supporting cast. The Heat defense plays them basically giving KM and EB whatever they want in favor of stopping Giannis. Giannis does need to do better but it's not all on him. Spoelstra is a savvy coach and he's taking advantage of a poorly constructed roster.

The other real issue is the perimeter defense which is just atrocious. I like the Heat supporting cast but when a defense makes Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinsin and Jae Crowder look like the Warriors, we've got problems. Bledsoe and KM are just an awful, awful duo defensively.

That's why I keep harping that they need a real #2 scorer who can play wing defense. I think Middleton is a solid #3 offensive option and a real wing defender next to him would hide his weaknesses enough to make do. The problem isn't necessarily Middleton in a vacuum. It's that he's one spot too high in their scorer order, and that you just can't have two (very) negative wing defenders in your starting 5 in today's NBA. It's a playoff death sentence.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Also totally agree with your takes and the general consensus on Bud. He's bad.

[d2o 1,603]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I agree with you that he's struggling against the Heat. Some of that is on him and some is on the supporting cast. The Heat defense plays them basically giving KM and EB whatever they want in favor of stopping Giannis. Giannis does need to do better but it's not all on him. Spoelstra is a savvy coach and he's taking advantage of a poorly constructed roster.

The other real issue is the perimeter defense which is just atrocious. I like the Heat supporting cast but when a defense makes Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinsin and Jae Crowder look like the Warriors, we've got problems. Bledsoe and KM are just an awful, awful duo defensively.

That's why I keep harping that they need a real #2 scorer who can play wing defense. I think Middleton is a solid #3 offensive option and a real wing defender next to him would hide his weaknesses enough to make do. The problem isn't necessarily Middleton in a vacuum. It's that he's one spot too high in their scorer order, and that you just can't have two (very) negative wing defenders in your starting 5 in today's NBA. It's a playoff death sentence.

Their defensive MO is to give teams what they want from the 3 but give up nothing in the paint.   They gave up the most 3's (makes and attempts) per game during the reg season.  With the shooters that MIA has you cannot do that.  Again that is on Bud for not adjusting.   Middleton isnt a great defender but that is not on him.   That's their team philosophy.

[d2o 1,603]

The game is on now on NBATV.   There is ZERO reason Giannis should bring the ball down, hold the ball on the wing until the shot clock in in single digits and then shoot a 3 with not a single pass on the possession. EVER

Edited September 5, 2020 by d2o

[Patrick Bateman 3,966]

A couple of big reasons the Bucks are frauds:

1.  Eric Bledsoe is fucking terrible in the playoffs. 

2.  Kris Middleton is marginally better and not a real #2.

3.  Their strategy to not protect the 3 point line is flawed.

4.  Greek's inability down the stretch to be counted on because of his lack of shooting (perimeter and FT).

Think of the Greek as a new era Shaq.  Dominant athletically and amazing, but if you foul him in the last few minutes of a ball game, what are the expected results?  How do teams expect to defend him in crunch or swing times?  If theycan force him off 15 feet or getting to the block and make him a jump shooter or foul him when he gets in the lane, can he dominate?  

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Their defensive MO is to give teams what they want from the 3 but give up nothing in the paint.   They gave up the most 3's (makes and attempts) per game during the reg season.  With the shooters that MIA has you cannot do that.  Again that is on Bud for not adjusting.   Middleton isnt a great defender but that is not on him.   That's their team philosophy.

It's quite possibly the worst possible way to defend the modern NBA.

[d2o 1,603]

7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

31 minutes ago, d2o said:

Their defensive MO is to give teams what they want from the 3 but give up nothing in the paint.   They gave up the most 3's (makes and attempts) per game during the reg season.  With the shooters that MIA has you cannot do that.  Again that is on Bud for not adjusting.   Middleton isnt a great defender but that is not on him.   That's their team philosophy.

It's quite possibly the worst possible way to defend the modern NBA.

You'd think that but they had the best defense in the league as far as opp FG% and ppg by a decent margin.

[Patrick Bateman 3,966]

Just now, d2o said:

You'd think that but they had the best defense in the league as far as opp FG% and ppg by a decent margin.

Playoff basketball vs Reg Season basketball.

[BradInATX 9,208]

You'd think that but they had the best defense in the league as far as opp FG% and ppg by a decent margin.

Don't think anyone doesn't consider the Bucks a great regular season team

[d2o 1,603]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Playoff basketball vs Reg Season basketball.

Exactly

 

[aggie08 21,733]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Their defensive MO is to give teams what they want from the 3 but give up nothing in the paint.   They gave up the most 3's (makes and attempts) per game during the reg season.

I know exceptionally little about Milwaukee and Bud's philosophies...what's the reasoning behind this strategy? 

I vaguely remember reading a couple of articles a few years ago basically saying that the analytics don't show as strong of a correlation between 3FG% and the closest defender as on other shots. And that some coaches were beginning to concede the random* nature of the 3, rather than overcommitting to stopping it. Don't think that concept ever got much traction though.

*The teams who are good at guarding the 3 (Spurs, Celtics, Warriors, etc.) somehow manage to be good at it year after year.

Edited September 5, 2020 by aggie08

[Helobious 9,755]

I’m sure it’s been mentioned here, but if your jersey message is going to be “How Many More” you should be sure that your jersey number is 0. It just looks off to see “How Many More” and see #14 right under it.

[cmontexas 3,331]

Giannis and Luka would be Kobe/Shaq pt 2

[ztejas 44,114]

I thought 538 said that the Celtics were title favorites?

[BradInATX 9,208]

Raps ain't no bitches

[BradInATX 9,208]

Giannis and Luka would be Kobe/Shaq pt 2

No. Giannis and Luka would be Nash Stoudamire. Business Trips and GA would be Kobe Shaq.

 

You can't wish it into being. He's not going to Dallas.

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Toronto is going to win this. What a crazy series.

[Braff Zacklin 13,675]

Murray is a got dam magician some times.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Murray is a got dam magician some times.

He's so good and underrated. Instant offense

[BradInATX 9,208]

Anyone think Denver is going to win?

[Wulaw Horn 19,560]

I apparently know nothing. Thought houston would get got with Harden being terrible in game 7. Thought Milwaukee was really really good. Thought Miami was scrappy try hard 2nd round bounce that is so common. Thought Boston had a gear Toronto didn’t. 
I guess Houston and the clips should be scared as I have the Lakers likely to get bounced by houston and the Clippers as cruising to a title. Whoops. I had them losing less than 4 games in the final 3 rounds. That still might be true but looks like one of those will happen the moment I proclaimed it as such. Whoops. 
Glad I don’t bet. 

[Chapo 104]

10 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I know exceptionally little about Milwaukee and Bud's philosophies...what's the reasoning behind this strategy? 

Because they are people that believe trying to win a series on 3 point shooting is a tall order.

[immortal13 4,059]

3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

No. Giannis and Luka would be Nash Stoudamire. Business Trips and GA would be Kobe Shaq.

 

You can't wish it into being. He's not going to Dallas.

 

Ok, brad

[BradInATX 9,208]

I apparently know nothing. Thought houston would get got with Harden being terrible in game 7. Thought Milwaukee was really really good. Thought Miami was scrappy try hard 2nd round bounce that is so common. Thought Boston had a gear Toronto didn’t. 
I guess Houston and the clips should be scared as I have the Lakers likely to get bounced by houston and the Clippers as cruising to a title. Whoops. I had them losing less than 4 games in the final 3 rounds. That still might be true but looks like one of those will happen the moment I proclaimed it as such. Whoops. 
Glad I don’t bet. 

You should play stonklympics

[BradInATX 9,208]

Ok, brad

Can you show me an original opinion that you have about basketball?

[immortal13 4,059]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

8 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Ok, brad

Can you show me an original opinion that you have about basketball?

No, but I'll stop wishing since you said so

[washparkhorn 9,967]

2 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Anyone think Denver is going to win?

They were 9 point dogs tonight and led wire to wire. 

Clips aren't that much better than the Nuggets (or the Mavs, or the Rockets, or the Lakers). 

Clips should win the series - if they can recapture their focus. Kawhi got shut down by Gary Harris tonight. The Clips were in a position to win this game - before their clown car mentality showed up. The clown mentality is always lurking when the Clippers play. 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by washparkhorn

[washparkhorn 9,967]

That was a subpar game for Denver, by the way. Shooters not hitting. But Jerami Grant and Gary Harris are legit defensive players. When they are moving the ball like in the first quarter and even at the end of the fourth - they can be unbeatable. They known how to hang on to leads. They don't fade, like some teams if it is close. 

They can play better. They need to play better to win this series. Denver's shooters are better than what showed up tonight. A little tight. Points were spread out - which means that deep bench can produce points. 

We have not seen the best Clippers team v. the best Nuggets team in this series. We saw it in three quarters in a seeding game - and it was close (Nuggets sat their starters for the fourth quarter of that game). 

It is an interesting series. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by washparkhorn

[d2o 1,603]

8 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

That was a subpar game for Denver, by the way. Shooters not hitting. But Jerami Grant and Gary Harris are legit defensive players. When they are moving the ball like in the first quarter and even at the end of the fourth - they can be unbeatable. They known how to hang on to leads. They don't fade, like some teams if it is close. 

They can play better. They need to play better to win this series. Denver's shooters are better than what showed up tonight. A little tight. Points were spread out - which means that deep bench can produce points. 

We have not seen the best Clippers team v. the best Nuggets team in this series. We saw it in three quarters in a seeding game - and it was close (Nuggets sat their starters for the fourth quarter of that game). 

It is an interesting series. 

I dont think that was a subpar game from DEN at all.   They shot 75% in the 1Q.   They swarmed defensively on Kawhi forcing him away from his sweet spots.   Gary Harris finally got going offensively.  They had a lull in the middle but they were able to get up again to finish.   They played a great game.  Better than what I expected they were capable of against the Clips.   The defense on Kawhi was especially impressive.   He didnt look like a cyborg taking some rushed shots.

Edited September 6, 2020 by d2o

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

9 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

They were 9 point dogs tonight and led wire to wire. 

Clips aren't that much better than the Nuggets (or the Mavs, or the Rockets, or the Lakers). 

Clips should win the series - if they can recapture their focus. Kawhi got shut down by Gary Harris tonight. The Clips were in a position to win this game - before their clown car mentality showed up. The clown mentality is always lurking when the Clippers play. 

 

Lol you don’t really believe this bolded part just because Denver couldn’t miss in tonight’s game, do you? This series will be over in 5 unless Kawhi is just off all series and Denver comes out of the gate shooting 75% in a quarter. This wa their game to win