2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Chris Paul has had a magical year in OKC (probably helped tremendously by a 4 month break in the middle).

But the idea of trading for him with almost $86M due to him over the next two years to help your chances for a deep playoff run (during which he'll be 36 years old) reeks of desperation.

But I suppose if they're at all worried that Giannis will leave, they are desperate.

What do they have to lose?  They have 1 season to win a title, after that it’s irrelevance. They’ve almost got to do that deal. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

48 minutes ago, d2o said:

If they can get him basically for Bledsoe and a pick they should do it immediately and put him on the Kawhi plan so that he can be relatively fresh for the playoffs.

Yep. That’s the deal. And floatsam for salary cap match. Call Morey- he can walk them through it. 

[d2o 1602]

14 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yep. That’s the deal. And floatsam for salary cap match. Call Morey- he can walk them through it. 

Problem is Bledsoe's salary number is 17 and CP3's is 41.   That means MIL would have to get to about 34-5 to take on CP3's salary.   They might have to decide between giving up George Hill or Brook Lopez.   Those would be significant losses and I dont know if they would want to do that for a yr (possibly 2) of CP3 contributing for the tidy sum of 83M for those 2 yrs.

 

EDIT: They may be able to give Bledsoe, Illyasova, Robin Lopez, DJ Wilson, and Jon Lueur.   OKC wont take all of that crap/money so they would have to redirect some of that elsewhere and maybe scrounge up another pick for OKC

Edited September 9, 2020 by d2o

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

Mike Bud is going to take such heat for this. I've known him since he was the Spurs video coordinator and he is just about the nicest guy you could ever meet. I am admittedly biased, but I don't think he's necessarily the problem. The Bucks still might fire his ass, but I think that team needs a gritty vet, preferably one with championship experience. They need toughness. George Hill and Kyle Korver are great leaders if you want to take a stand on police brutality, but you need some guys who play with a chip on their shoulder. They don't have any. Miami has Butler and Iguodala and Crowder and even Olynyk. The closest thing Milwaukee has is Wesley Matthews. They need an enforcer. 

And I don't think Chris Paul is the answer. That move reeks of desperation. If Sam Presti actually manages to get assets and/or cap relief in return for Chris Paul... I don't even know what to say. Look what Houston had to give up to unload his contract? It would just be mind boggling. I'm not saying it won't happen but it would be unreal.

Throw in Giannis impending free agency and Milwaukee is going to have the most interesting off season to watch in the league. 

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Problem is Bledsoe's salary number is 17 and CP3's is 41.   That means MIL would have to get to about 34-5 to take on CP3's salary.   They might have to decide between giving up George Hill or Brook Lopez.   Those would be significant losses and I dont know if they would want to do that for a yr (possibly 2) of CP3 contributing for the tidy sum of 83M for those 2 yrs.

Oh, they absolutely have to do anything they can to make them have a better shot at winning a title. 
I would guess they have like 5 or 6 guys on the end of the bench they could give non guaranteed deals to. 
work in another team with a trade exception. The thing being a rockets fan has shown is that the salary cap really doesn’t matter. If you want to do something and are willing to make it happen it’s all good. 
Someone with bird rights, lots of different avenues I’m sure. 

[d2o 1602]

5 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Mike Bud is going to take such heat for this. I've known him since he was the Spurs video coordinator and he is just about the nicest guy you could ever meet. I am admittedly biased, but I don't think he's necessarily the problem. The Bucks still might fire his ass, but I think that team needs a gritty vet, preferably one with championship experience. They need toughness. George Hill and Kyle Korver are great leaders if you want to take a stand on police brutality, but you need some guys who play with a chip on their shoulder. They don't have any. Miami has Butler and Iguodala and Crowder and even Olynyk. The closest thing Milwaukee has is Wesley Matthews. They need an enforcer. 

And I don't think Chris Paul is the answer. That move reeks of desperation. If Sam Presti actually manages to get assets and/or cap relief in return for Chris Paul... I don't even know what to say. Look what Houston had to give up to unload his contract? It would just be mind boggling. I'm not saying it won't happen but it would be unreal.

Throw in Giannis impending free agency and Milwaukee is going to have the most interesting off season to watch in the league. 

 

Bud should take heat.  A LOT OF HEAT.  This make the 3rd time in his coaching career that he has had the best record in the reg season but not even made it to the Finals.    His lack of adjustments to playoff defensive focus on Giannis (especially after losing that way last yr) shows that he just cannot get it done in the playoffs.

Edited September 9, 2020 by d2o

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Bud should take heat.  A LOT OF HEAT.  This make the 3rd time in his coaching career that he has had the best record in the reg season but not even made it to the Finals.    His lack of adjustments to playoff defensive focus on Giannis (especially after losing that way last yr) shows that he just cannot get it done in the playoffs.

No fault to him on Atlanta with that relatively playoff untalented hawk team. Yeah he owns some shit in Milwaukee though. 

[aggie08 21433]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Yeah, I cant imagine that MIL would do that.   They would wanna add Paul to Freak/KM.    If they could somehow get a better player (thought I REALLY like Middleton) then yeah I'm sure they would but going from Freak/KM to Freak/CP3 is not an upgrade..........at all.

OKC would have to throw in some of their mountain of picks for sure, and Milwaukee would need to find at least one more piece that could immediately contribute.

[SilasCoade 2620]

6 hours ago, UTDD said:

Well sure, but trade value is predicated much more on potential value going forward than the current status of a player today.  If LeBron James was 21 again, his trade value obviously would be exponentially different than at 35 on the tail end of his career.  Huge fan of Luka, but right now for the 2020 playoffs, I'd easily take Kawhi and LeBron over him and not even blink.  

If AD were on Dallas this year they beat the Clippers handily. I'm not certain that it's a slam dunk either way, but you wouldn't be crazy to swap Luka for LeBron this year. Advanced stats still favor James but it's a thinner margin than you might expect.

[BradInATX 9208]

If you're the Bucks, how do you get better? They struggled tremendously against Miami in the half court, and it wasn't going to get any better. Miami is #5 in defending the paint, Boston/Toronto are #2/#3, and the Clippers are 6th. 

Bucks defense is tremendous at guarding the paint - #1 in the league. But they're middle of the pack defending the three. The Bucks defensive philosophy of stuffing the paint and letting the other team shoot threes would be a great strategy... if they were playing themselves. And maybe that's the problem, that their defense is built for what they see in practice. I don't know. But I think they need a coaching change on top of a roster shakeup. Bud is a nice guy and as a Spurs fan I love him, but he needs to go.

If I'm the GM and I'm trying to keep Giannis, here would be my priorities, in order:

- Get rid of Bud and bring someone in who is going to build a more modern philosophy, especially on defense

- Do everything in my power to get a wing that can stretch the floor and defend the three ball against the other team's top scoring wing. Since they're not getting Jimmy Butler, I would try to make the Pelicans an offer they couldn't refuse for Jrue Holliday, who I think would be the perfect compliment to Giannis. I'd tell the Pelicans they can have both Lopezes, Bledsoe, George Hill, and whatever draft picks and remaining players they need. I don't know if that's enough to get there, I'm not sure how the Pelicans slot Jrue into their future/Zion plans.

- Failing the Jrue Holliday hail mary, I'd try to sign Fred Van Vleet in free agency. I don't think he's a premier player, but he's a very very good player. I'm desperate because I'm trying to hold onto Giannis in 2021, and FVV plus a coaching and philosophy change might be enough to at least get me to the NBA Finals next year. FVV fits a lot of what I mentioned above, philosophically. Good wing defender, decent floor stretcher.

- If that doesn't work, I probably make a play for Chris Paul. He's still a pretty solid wing defender, a great facilitator, and isn't going to disappear in the playoffs. 

- On top of that, I'm looking for 3 and D wings wherever I can. I'd kick the tires on Danny Green and Avery Bradley in free agency, and whoever else is out there.

 

Is any of that enough? I dunno. But I'm going desperation time to hang on to my generational player.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

29 minutes ago, d2o said:

Problem is Bledsoe's salary number is 17 and CP3's is 41.   That means MIL would have to get to about 34-5 to take on CP3's salary.   They might have to decide between giving up George Hill or Brook Lopez.   Those would be significant losses and I dont know if they would want to do that for a yr (possibly 2) of CP3 contributing for the tidy sum of 83M for those 2 yrs.

 

EDIT: They may be able to give Bledsoe, Illyasova, Robin Lopez, DJ Wilson, and Jon Lueur.   OKC wont take all of that crap/money so they would have to redirect some of that elsewhere and maybe scrounge up another pick for OKC

I think Brook Lopez is expendable in any scenario where the Bucks are trying to re-tool into a more modern team of perimeter basketball creating space for Giannis. I spelled it out some above, but Lopez is redundant to Giannis in a lot of ways, and for as solid of a player as he is, he doesn't stretch the floor for Giannis at all. I'd have zero problem trading all of those players plus Brook Lopez for a premier wing type player. The Bucks can afford to ship out some interior defense to add scoring and (ideally) some additional perimeter defense.

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[ztejas 43266]

30 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Mike Bud is going to take such heat for this. I've known him since he was the Spurs video coordinator and he is just about the nicest guy you could ever meet. I am admittedly biased, but I don't think he's necessarily the problem. The Bucks still might fire his ass, but I think that team needs a gritty vet, preferably one with championship experience. They need toughness. George Hill and Kyle Korver are great leaders if you want to take a stand on police brutality, but you need some guys who play with a chip on their shoulder. They don't have any. Miami has Butler and Iguodala and Crowder and even Olynyk. The closest thing Milwaukee has is Wesley Matthews. They need an enforcer. 

And I don't think Chris Paul is the answer. That move reeks of desperation. If Sam Presti actually manages to get assets and/or cap relief in return for Chris Paul... I don't even know what to say. Look what Houston had to give up to unload his contract? It would just be mind boggling. I'm not saying it won't happen but it would be unreal.

Throw in Giannis impending free agency and Milwaukee is going to have the most interesting off season to watch in the league. 

 

They better figure it out quick because KD gonna whip that ass if they don't.

[d2o 1602]

22 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I think Brook Lopez is expendable in any scenario where the Bucks are trying to re-tool into a more modern team of perimeter basketball creating space for Giannis. I spelled it out some above, but Lopez is redundant to Giannis in a lot of ways, and for as solid of a player as he is, he doesn't stretch the floor for Giannis at all. I'd have zero problem trading all of those players plus Brook Lopez for a premier wing type player. The Bucks can afford to ship out some interior defense to add scoring and (ideally) some additional perimeter defense.

Brook Lopez doesnt stretch the floor?  He's made a 100+ threes in each of the last four seasons.  187 of them a yr ago.  He was 2nd team all defense as well  I think you vastly underestimate his value to them on both ends of the floor.    I dont think they would be all that anxious to let him go without a significant replacement.

 

More importantly, the "stretch the floor for Giannis" philosophy is part of the problem.   They need to be able to get him off the ball more so teams like MIA cant just load up the lane for him.   If you are bringing Jrue Holliday or even CP3 in to go stand in the corner and wait for Giannis to pass to them you're in for another lost endeavor.

Edited September 9, 2020 by d2o

[BradInATX 9208]

9 minutes ago, d2o said:

Brook Lopez doesnt stretch the floor?  He's made a 100+ threes in each of the last four seasons.  187 of them a yr ago.  He was 2nd team all defense as well  I think you vastly underestimate his value to them on both ends of the floor.    I dont think they would be all that anxious to let him go without a significant replacement.

I don't think 100+ three pointers means what you think it does. He was around 90th in the league in 3 pointers made, which puts him well-below average for an NBA starter. 

Beyond that, of all 93 players who had more than 100 three pointers made, he has the second worst make percentage of all of them. Only Spencer Dinwiddle is  worse at shooting them. He's many percentage points below league average for three-point percentage. I suspect most NBA coaches would let Brook Lopez shoot as many threes as he'd like. They certainly don't defend the Bucks as if they're concerned about it.

Like I said, Lopez is a really good player, but he does not create any concern from the opposing defense on the perimeter at all.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[SilasCoade 2620]

Boston might consider Hayward expendable at this point. Not sure Milwaukee has the right assets to make it happen, but a deal for Hayward and maybe Theis for Lopez bros, George Hill, and Wes Matthews?

[d2o 1602]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't think 100+ three pointers means what you think it does. He was around 90th in the league in 3 pointers made, which puts him well-below average for an NBA starter. 

Beyond that, of all 93 players who had more than 100 three pointers made, he has the second worst make percentage of all of them. Only Spencer Dinwiddle is  worse at shooting them. He's many percentage points below league average for three-point percentage. I suspect most NBA coaches would let Brook Lopez shoot as many threes as he'd like. They certainly don't defend the Bucks as if they're concerned about it.

Like I said, Lopez is a really good player, but he does not create any concern from the opposing defense on the perimeter at all.

 

How many of those are centers and play all-NBA level defense?   His ability to play outside along with his post game and then his defensive level makes him quite valuable.   But again shooting from others wasnt the reason they lost to MIA.    Lopez avg'd 20+ in that series shooting 52%, 43% from 3.  Middleton avg'd 25.   They lost cause Giannis was neutralized.   Going further into the model that caused them to lose doesn't seem to be the answer.    

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Boston might consider Hayward expendable at this point. Not sure Milwaukee has the right assets to make it happen, but a deal for Hayward and maybe Theis for Lopez bros, George Hill, and Wes Matthews?

Yeah, I think Hayward will end up elsewhere next yr.   I dont know if either team would want to help the other considering they will have to go through the other to get to the Finals.

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, d2o said:

How many of those are centers and play all-NBA level defense?   His ability to play outside along with his post game and then his defensive level makes him quite valuable.   But again shooting from others wasnt the reason they lost to MIA.    Lopez avg'd 20+ in that series shooting 52%, 43% from 3.  Middleton avg'd 25.   They lost cause Giannis was neutralized.   Going further into the model that caused them to lose doesn't seem to be the answer.    

Well, that's all fair but you're changing the argument from "Lopez stretches the floor" to "Lopez is a good defender and layer" a bit. 

Lopez is not the reason they lost the series, I wasn't arguing that. I'm arguing that Giannis was largely neutralized because the Bucks don't have an offensive system nor the talent to keep  Giannis freed up on the interior. I was paying a lot of attention to how Spoelstra was playing defense against Giannis in this series. Bledsoe and Lopez' guys were sagging to the interior to double and even triple Giannis at times. The only guys that were getting respect on the perimeter were Middleton, Korver, and sometimes Wes Matthews.

Point is that Lopez is expendable in order to re-tool the roster on the perimeter and free up space for Giannis to work down low. As mentioned, a lot of Lopez' skillset is redundant to Giannis'.

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

BTW d2o, I'm not suggesting that Lopez is worthless. Not by any means. I'm suggesting that he's probably the best trade asset they have, and if you can get someone like Jrue Holliday by leveraging that asset, you do it. I'm not suggesting they trade him away for Demar Derozan or something that's not going to improve the team.

FWIW I don't think the Pelicans would be interested, because we know that David Griffin understands that when you have a guy that can dominate 1 on 1 in the interior, you surround him with shooters and 3 and D. His NBA championship out front shoulda told ya.

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[SilasCoade 2620]

Brad, you seem way higher on Jrue than the average person. Why?

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Well, that's all fair but you're changing the argument from "Lopez stretches the floor" to "Lopez is a good defender and layer" a bit. 

Lopez is not the reason they lost the series, I wasn't arguing that. I'm arguing that Giannis was largely neutralized because the Bucks don't have an offensive system nor the talent to keep  Giannis freed up on the interior. I was paying a lot of attention to how Spoelstra was playing defense against Giannis in this series. Bledsoe and Lopez' guys were sagging to the interior to double and even triple Giannis at times. The only two guys that were getting respect on the perimeter were Middleton, Korver, and sometimes Wes Matthews.

Point is that Lopez is expendable in order to re-tool the roster on the perimeter and free up space for Giannis to work down low. As mentioned, a lot of Lopez' skillset is redundant to Giannis'.

Lopez shot better than Matthews and George Hill and made twice as many threes as they and Korver did in the series.   If you want to address shooting Bledsoe would be the starting point.

Not changing the argument at all.  Lopez's size forces teams to have to stay big but he can still shoot from 3.   If they put a small guy on him he can go to the post and score well.   So he can stretch the floor but also offers great defense.    His lane presence allows Giannis to roam on defense like he does.   Losing him would be a large blow on both ends of the floor.

 

[BradInATX 9208]

10 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Brad, you seem way higher on Jrue than the average person. Why?

I don't think he's a top 10 player or anything but he'd be a great fit for the Bucks. They need individually talented perimeter defenders and offensive floor spacers. Jrue is both. I also think he's been pretty grossly misused in New Orleans and would be much more effective playing more two-guard than running point. Used correctly he'd shoot closer to 40% from 3 like he did early in his career. And I think a small-ball lineup of Bledsoe, Holliday, Matthews, Middleton, and Giannis would be incredibly difficult to defend, even in more physical half-court sets like you see in the playoffs.

That lineup also gives you a pretty decent wing defense. Then you hide Middleton on whoever the opponents' worst offensive player is and let Giannis anchor the paint.

He solves a lot of roster problems in one shot. Like I said, I think Jimmy Butler is the perfect compliment to Giannis, but you're not getting him, so you go for a poor man's Jimmy Business Trips. Jrue is the only guy I can think of like that that might be available for trade.

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[d2o 1602]

9 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

BTW d2o, I'm not suggesting that Lopez is worthless. Not by any means. I'm suggesting that he's probably the best trade asset they have, and if you can get someone like Jrue Holliday by leveraging that asset, you do it. I'm not suggesting they trade him away for Demar Derozan or something that's not going to improve the team.

FWIW I don't think the Pelicans would be interested, because we know that David Griffin understands that when you have a guy that can dominate 1 on 1 in the interior, you surround him with shooters and 3 and D. His NBA championship out front shoulda told ya.

Yeah Griff had a totally different animal in CLE.   Please dont tell me you think that Zion could be surrounded with shooters and have that same kinda success?

BTW Jrue made 16 more threes this season than Lopez.   He shot 4% better than Lopez on the season.   For their careers he shoots 1% better than Lopez from 3.   How does he "stretch the floor" if Lopez does not?

Edited September 9, 2020 by d2o

[BradInATX 9208]

34 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah Griff had a totally different animal in CLE.   Please dont tell me you think that Zion could be surrounded with shooters and have that same kinda success?

BTW Jrue made 16 more threes this season than Lopez.   He shot 4% better than Lopez on the season.   For their careers he shoots 1% better than Lopez from 3.   How does he "stretch the floor" if Lopez does not?

I don't know what Zion could do if he were surrounded by shooters, not sure why you're trying to go there as that's not an argument I made. But I know that with a player like Zion, I'd build a perimeter team around him to keep the paint clean for him.

Are you really going down the road of comparing Brook Lopez as an outside scorer to Jrue Holliday? Jrue is grossly misused on the Pelicans and is expected to play iso scoring PG. He takes a ton of contested shots.

- You say "he shot 4% better than Lopez" like 4% is no big deal. 2016 Steph Curry shot 4% better than Austin Rivers. 
- Lopez gets far, far more wide open looks (26% to 17% of the time) than Jrue does. Jrue shoots 6% better on those looks than Lopez does. If Holliday got the same wide open looks that Giannis creates for Lopez, he'd shoot closer to 37-38%. A 4% difference is the difference between being well-below league average vs. above it.
- Holliday is a better scorer between the paint and the three point line

It's not even close. Lopez is a decent perimeter player for a Center. He's a significantly below average perimeter player, generally speaking. Holliday is a very good perimeter player, especially when used correctly.

Sometimes I think we get too wrapped up in figuring out who to "blame". It's not Lopez' fault they lost the series. But what I do know is that if you took Lopez off of the squad and replaced him with Holliday or another elite wing defender, Tyler Herro is probably not a household name this morning. I also know that if you put an above-average wing scorer in place of Lopez, there would have been more room for Giannis to work and he likely would have been more successful.

What I also know is that the Bucks, as currently constructed, are not a successful playoff team. Something has to change.

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[d2o 1602]

Just now, BradInATX said:

I don't know what Zion could do if he were surrounded by shooters, not sure why you're trying to go there as that's not an argument I made. But I know that with a player like Zion, I'd build a perimeter team around him to keep the paint clean for him.

Are you really going down the road of comparing Brook Lopez as an outside scorer to Jrue Holliday? Jrue is grossly misused on the Pelicans and is expected to play iso scoring PG. He takes a ton of contested shots.

- You say "he shot 4% better than Lopez" like 4% is no big deal. 2016 Steph Curry shot 4% better than Austin Rivers. 
- Lopez gets far, far more wide open looks (26% to 17% of the time) than Jrue does. Jrue shoots 6% better on those looks than Lopez does. If Holliday got the same wide open looks that Giannis creates for Lopez, he'd shoot closer to 37-38%. 
- Holliday is a better scorer between the paint and the three point line

It's not even close. Lopez is a decent perimeter player for a Center. He's a significantly below average perimeter player, generally speaking. Holliday is a very good perimeter player, especially when used correctly.

Sometimes I think we get too wrapped up in figuring out who to "blame". It's not Lopez' fault they won the series. But what I do know is that if you took Lopez off of the squad and replaced him with Holliday or another elite wing defender, Tyler Herro is probably not a household name this morning. I also know that if you put an above-average wing scorer in place of Lopez, there would have been more room for Giannis to work and he likely would have been more successful.

What I also know is that the Bucks, as currently constructed, are not a successful playoff team. Something has to change.

Jrue has never made anywhere near the 187 threes that Lopez made last season.   The closest he got was the 122 that he made this season.   Lopez shot 36.5% that season when he made 187.   The highest Jrue has shot is while making 100 threes is 35.6%.   So yes they are quite comparable as far as outside scoring goes.    He played SG not PG this season since Ball got there.

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, d2o said:

Jrue has never made anywhere near the 187 threes that Lopez made last season.   The closest he got was the 122 that he made this season.   Lopez shot 36.5% that season when he made 187.   The highest Jrue has shot is while making 100 threes is 35.6%.   So yes they are quite comparable as far as outside scoring goes.    He played SG not PG this season since Ball got there.

Jrue runs point a lot. I watch quite a bit of the Pelicans since they're in the Spurs' division and I have a bunch of family and friends in NOLA. He's grossly misused.

But the larger point lost in this debate is that the Bucks could, and should, trade interior defense and the offense that Lopez brings for more perimeter isolation defense and a floor spacer. Maybe you don't think it's Jrue, but whether it's Van Vleet or whoever else, it almost certainly would improve that team in the playoffs. If you really looked at their roster and the flaws in it, you could see the impending playoff disaster. I did.

Edited September 9, 2020 by BradInATX

[ztejas 43266]

Roster is fine. They might need to move one or two guys just to get a different look. Giannis needs to play better and figure out how to win. Prime KD or LeBron or Kawhi get past that Heat team in 6 games at most. 

[d2o 1602]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Roster is fine. They might need to move one or two guys just to get a different look. Giannis needs to play better and figure out how to win. Prime KD or LeBron or Kawhi get past that Heat team in 6 games at most. 

While this is very true, they could stand some tweaks of the roster to help him along until he puts together the rest of his game.   I think replacing Bledsoe would be the most logical spot to focus on.   He was pretty terrible thorughout the series and has proven unreliable in the playoffs the last two seasons for MIL.   He's shot under 40% and less than 25% from three in these last two postseasons.   They made a bad choice choosing between him and Brogdon. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

33 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Jrue runs point a lot. I watch quite a bit of the Pelicans since they're in the Spurs' division and I have a bunch of family and friends in NOLA. He's grossly misused.

But the larger point lost in this debate is that the Bucks could, and should, trade interior defense and the offense that Lopez brings for more perimeter isolation defense and a floor spacer. Maybe you don't think it's Jrue, but whether it's Van Vleet or whoever else, it almost certainly would improve that team in the playoffs. If you really looked at their roster and the flaws in it, you could see the impending playoff disaster. I did.

I think you're mistaking a need to upgrade perimeter play a need to downgrade interior play. Yes to the Bucks trying to upgrade from Bledsoe and Matthews and the Villanova ginger. No to the idea that their only avenue to that is ditching an above average stretch 5. And specifically no to making that exchange in favor of a guy who statistically is not a big improvement over those three guys from deep.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

The more I think about it the more sense CP3 makes. Get him. Tell him he’s playing 50 games. Basically never back to back and only twice a week. Who gives a fuck about the last 2 years of the contract. Win a ring, have a parade, waive goodby to Giannis, trade everything for assets, get ready to suck and hope you catch lightning in a bottle again someday and win another title or two. 
In my lifetime (42 years old) I believe there have only been 13 different teams win a title. Milwaukee should go all out to win 1. They are that precious. Who gives a shit about the backside of the years left on CP3’s deal?  
I’m sure okc would be very interested in including some of their eleventy billion picks to get out of that contract. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[SilasCoade 2620]

It's easy to spend other people's money.

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The more I think about it the more sense CP3 makes. Get him. Tell him he’s playing 50 games. Basically never back to back and only twice a week. Who gives a fuck about the last 2 years of the contract. Win a ring, have a parade, waive goodby to Giannis, trade everything for assets, get ready to suck and hope you catch lightning in a bottle again someday and win another title or two. 
In my lifetime (42 years old) I believe there have only been 13 different teams win a title. Milwaukee should go all out to win 1. They are that precious. Who gives a shit about the backside of the years left on CP3’s deal?  
I’m sure okc would be very interested in including some of their eleventy billion picks to get out of that contract. 

Now if MIL can get CP3 AND pick(s) then hell yeah do it!  I just dont think Presti would sign off on that just to dump CP3s contract.    He should have at least 3-4 teams bidding for CP3 after this season.   I agree though, you go all in to get him or anyone else that will upgrade their roster.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

31 minutes ago, d2o said:

While this is very true, they could stand some tweaks of the roster to help him along until he puts together the rest of his game.   I think replacing Bledsoe would be the most logical spot to focus on.   He was pretty terrible thorughout the series and has proven unreliable in the playoffs the last two seasons for MIL.   He's shot under 40% and less than 25% from three in these last two postseasons.   They made a bad choice choosing between him and Brogdon. 

All of this. Bledsoe has been terrible the past two playoffs and he's a non-threat to shoot from the perimeter. I understand their hesitation in re-signing Brogdon with his injury history and they did eek out a protected first round pick in the sign and trade to Indiana, but they are paying Bledsoe roughly the same dough. I'd take Brogdon over him six days a week and twice on Sundays.

[ztejas 43266]

6 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

In my lifetime (42 years old) I believe there have only been 13 different teams win a title.

I thought it was more like 15. It is 15.

[ztejas 43266]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The more I think about it the more sense CP3 makes. Get him. Tell him he’s playing 50 games. Basically never back to back and only twice a week. Who gives a fuck about the last 2 years of the contract. Win a ring, have a parade, waive goodby to Giannis, trade everything for assets, get ready to suck and hope you catch lightning in a bottle again someday and win another title or two. 
In my lifetime (42 years old) I believe there have only been 13 different teams win a title. Milwaukee should go all out to win 1. They are that precious. Who gives a shit about the backside of the years left on CP3’s deal?  
I’m sure okc would be very interested in including some of their eleventy billion picks to get out of that contract. 

CP3 isn't some guarantee to win a title. Their best window in the East was this year and they shit it away. Miami and Boston won't be any worse - they will be better. Durant and Kyrie will be back. Making the Finals will be tough sledding and there is no guarantee they would have HCA throughout like they would have bought themselves this year. 

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, Llogg said:

It's easy to spend other people's money.

I agree with this but the potential money lost from Giannis leaving has to be factored into the equation.  A player like him doesnt come around very often even less likely does one come around who seems content to stay in MIL.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I thought it was more like 15. It is 15.

I was born in 78 after the nba season was over. I counted 13 (but not 1978) but it could be 14. And only 3 of those were 1 offs (Dallas, Toronto, Cleveland). It’s really hard to win a title. They should do everything they can to make that happen. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

CP3 isn't some guarantee to win a title. Their best window in the East was this year and they shit it away. Miami and Boston won't be any worse - they will be better. Durant and Kyrie will be back. Making the Finals will be tough sledding and there is no guarantee they would have HCA throughout like they would have bought themselves this year. 

Sure. But show me another move that lives the needle as much. This league is a strongest player league. It’s like 50% about your top player, 30 percent about number two, 15 percent about number 3 and 5 percent about the entire rest of the roster. CP3 as your third best player is really really impactful. Ducking around at the margins isn’t. 

[Kermit 3128]

Do they want DeMar? I’ll throw in some Wing Stop coupons and a season pass to Fiesta Texas. 

[kopp0e 1135]

Rut-Roh...

 

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

Rut-Roh...

 

Cmon man

[Kermit 3128]

What do they have that the Bucks could possibly want? 

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, Kermit said:

What do they have that the Bucks could possibly want? 

I guess they are thinking that Giannis will force the Bucks hand so they take whatever the Clips offer.   Giannis isnt going there

[hobbes2702 12826]

5 hours ago, Llogg said:

Boston might consider Hayward expendable at this point. Not sure Milwaukee has the right assets to make it happen, but a deal for Hayward and maybe Theis for Lopez bros, George Hill, and Wes Matthews?

Why would Boston do that?

[SilasCoade 2620]

Because Hayward is redundant on their team and the only they could improve their bench scoring and interior defense. I'm not saying they should. 

[Sbbruin 21734]

23 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

Rut-Roh...

 

That's silly.  Everyone knows it'll be AD and Giannis.

[d2o 1602]

32 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Why would Boston do that?

They wouldn't.......but its almost silly season.   Hayward will probably be moved.    Won't be to MIL

[BradInATX 9208]

I mean if Giannis wanted to pull the ultimate bitch move and fake injury and cry his way off of a team, Kawhi Leonard would be a great mentor.

[Underdog 28455]

21 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

 

Come to UK, Billy.  

[Brothahorn 10085]

2 hours ago, Underdog said:

Come to UK, Billy.  

Not sure John C would appreciate that.

Plus, there should be a job opening in Austin by this summer. Hopefully.