2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,799]

Jimmys in my second tier with the Luka, Dame, Steph, Harden, Joker etc. I put KD/lebron/Kawhi and Giannis in the top tier just because of their physical stature compared to someone like Jimmy who is shorter and not as talented with the ball.

 

 

But he sure makes up for it with grit, being a bulldog and savvy. That’s how he’s in the second tier.

 

 

Lol@ Russ being 3rd team.

[BradInATX 9,208]

15 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Lakers/Nuggets are going to be interesting matchup-wise.

The obvious one is Davis/Jokic. The Lakers can throw Howard and McGee at him too. The Nugs can probably get away with a smaller player on Davis if they don't want to expose Jokic to foul trouble but if they go head to head, how novel is it to have two superstar centers as the most compelling matchup in a series? I also want to say one more thing about Jokic, because it's amazing to me how bad Utah torched him by putting him in the pick and roll and then the next series, he's staying in front of Kawhi Leonard one on one at the three point line. Like, what the fuck was that about?

Lebron is always a match up nightmare for everybody but it seems like Denver at least has some options to throw at him. Jerami Grant probably gets first crack but you'd think they could steal some minutes with Millsap and Craig on him.  Harris is their best perimeter defender but he seems undersized for Lebron. I don't think you want Porter to be checking him for very long, but they have some different looks they can give him.

Outside of Danny Green, the Lakers don't have a lot of options to check Murray. Coming off of Paul George and Kawhi Leonard, that should seem like a day at the beach. He's been on such a roll and I don't see anybody stopping him. Caruso? KCP?

I could talk myself into the Nuggets, but I have a hard time betting against Lebron. So far, the Lakers haven't been challenged in the playoffs. They are going to have to pick it up a notch this series. Should be a good one.

 

 

The Nuggets have some defensive challenges for sure. Outside of Jokic the only big bodies they can throw at AD are absolute garbage defenders (MPJ, Plumlee, even Vonleh). And Davis can get Jokic into foul trouble quick if Jokic is on him. That's a tough dilemma.

You don't want Millsap on LeBron***. LeBron will torch him. There's not a natural LeBron defender on that team because like you said, their best two wing defenders in Harris and Murray are undersized. 

I think you're going to see Denver pick their battles. Either:

- Run zone or at least zone concepts where you have two bigs down low protecting the paint (Jokic and.. MPJ/Grant?), try to guard LeBron with Murray and Harris, and live with him driving into the rim protection you have set up (telling the perimeter guys to let LeBron by and not gamble/foul). The problem there is you leave the secondary shooters like Green and Kuzma. But the Nuggets might be okay with that.

or

- ***Put trash defenders like Millsap on LeBron and sag them off of him. Basically the "make LeBron shoot his way to victory" that Golden State used against him. The defender sagging off of LeBron also gives you some protection against the cut/inlet passes to AD. This is probably what I would do. Of all of the ways for the Lakers to hurt you, "letting LeBron shoot perimeter shots" seems like the least deadly. 

But none of those strategies really helps with the screen hunting and PnR that LeBron and AD are going to do. Michael Malone has a huge hill to climb.

Edited September 16, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9,208]

10 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Haha, just giving you a hard time. I agree that he's better than about 3 of those guys, especially in May...er, September...so I have no issue with someone saying he's a Top 10 player this year. In a normal year though, with a healthy KD and Steph, there's 9 guys that he has no argument up against: Bron, Giannis, Steph, KD, AD, Harden, Luka, Kawhi, Jokic. No knock against Butler; the top of the league is just really, really fucking good right now. The guys battling for that 10th spot aren't as clearly separated though, so an argument could be made for him there, even if I wouldn't necessarily agree with it. He's put himself comfortably in the conversation.

Yeah, no disagreement from me. I'd take him for one season, today, over two of those guys you listed, maybe three, if my goal was a championship. But either way, he's not going to make his way up into that elite, elite tier. He's 31 years old, which is crazy because he's only recently hit his prime. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

12 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Jimmys in my second tier with the Luka, Dame, Steph, Harden, Joker etc. I put KD/lebron/Kawhi and Giannis in the top tier just because of their physical stature compared to someone like Jimmy who is shorter and not as talented with the ball.

 

 

But he sure makes up for it with grit, being a bulldog and savvy. That’s how he’s in the second tier.

 

 

Lol@ Russ being 3rd team.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. Ranking individually is getting so far down into the weeds. But I agree with your tiers, although I'd move Dame out of tier 2 and I think Giannis is sort of in a tier 1.5 limbo until we see what he does over the next couple of years. Tier 1, at least for me, is reserved for guys who are dominant, championship-caliber #1 options on their team. I don't know that Giannis has proven himself that yet. 

Also Steph is obviously tier 1. C'mon, man.

[Sbbruin 21,737]

33 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

To be fair, Kawhi signing on was contingent on getting PG--so it was basically a trade to get both of them--and Presto leveraged that perfectly. Still, that's going to absolutely cripple them for a decade if they leave after next season.

If they leave after next season, the Clips will return to the Donald Sterling era for 10 years.  And what if Kawhi walks across the hall to play with AD, well that would be just alright by me.

[washparkhorn 9,935]

A 14 minute replay of the scoring in the LAL/DEN bubble game:

 

[Vic Mackey 46,936]

Awesome

[immortal13 4,059]

Fuck Marcus Morris

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,799]

 

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. Ranking individually is getting so far down into the weeds. But I agree with your tiers, although I'd move Dame out of tier 2 and I think Giannis is sort of in a tier 1.5 limbo until we see what he does over the next couple of years. Tier 1, at least for me, is reserved for guys who are dominant, championship-caliber #1 options on their team. I don't know that Giannis has proven himself that yet. 

Also Steph is obviously tier 1. C'mon, man.

Stephs great, His durability going forward causes concern for me. Probably a season off for GS is the best thing for them, only lebron can say he’s played an extra regular season the last handful of years when you start counting playoff game.

 

 

I thought of giannis at 1.5 but his nickname is too accurate to have me remove him from T1. Nobody’s winning with KM and Eric bledsoe as your top running mates. But if he was 6-6 or 6-7 the yea, not close to T1

[Thatguy 8,504]

On 9/16/2020 at 5:47 AM, 52-80 said:

KD would go 5 of 21 in elimination game against Grizzlies, and 5 of 23 in elimation game against Lakers...

 

Lebron 10-30 in loss against Spurs, 8-20 in loss against Magic, 8-21 in loss against Celtics....

  Everyone has bad shooting games, but those stats can be misleading.  KD's 5-21 resulted in 21 pts and his 5-23 resulted in 26. Bron went 24, 25, and 27pts vs the 3 teams you mentioned. All games resulted in 4th qtr points.

  Also, both were 25yrs old or younger, and not in their peak prime at 29 like Kawhi. At 29 Bron dropped 31 of the Heat's 87 in a elimination game. 14 points is just inexcusable at this point in his career. It's not the shooting percentage, but the lack of aggressiveness and freethrows.

[d2o 1,602]

18 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

  Everyone has bad shooting games, but those stats can be misleading.  KD's 5-21 resulted in 21 pts and his 5-23 resulted in 26. Bron went 24, 25, and 27pts vs the 3 teams you mentioned. All games resulted in 4th qtr points.

  Also, both were 25yrs old or younger, and not in their peak prime at 29 like Kawhi. At 29 Bron dropped 31 of the Heat's 87 in a elimination game. 14 points is just inexcusable at this point in his career. It's not the shooting percentage, but the lack of aggressiveness and freethrows.

For all the people who were saying Kawhi was on LBJ's level this season he sure as hell isnt getting killed like LBJ would if went out like this in a game 7.     The talk would be non-stop and all the naysayers would be out stroking themselves about how right they were about LBJ's lack of killer instinct.

 

[52-80 19,096]

44 minutes ago, d2o said:

For all the people who were saying Kawhi was on LBJ's level this season he sure as hell isnt getting killed like LBJ would if went out like this in a game 7.     The talk would be non-stop and all the naysayers would be out stroking themselves about how right they were about LBJ's lack of killer instinct.

 

Meh, it comes with the territory.  One is the self annointed king, with trumped up attention, and the other keeps his profile low as a silent assassin. 

[d2o 1,602]

Just now, 52-80 said:

Meh, it comes with the territory.  One is the self annointed king, with trumped up attention, and the other keeps his profile low as a silent assassin. 

hahahahaa, one actually belongs in a GOAT convo and the other never did.   Even if he had won another title and FMVP he isnt on that level.

[52-80 19,096]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

hahahahaa, one actually belongs in a GOAT convo and the other never did.   Even if he had won another title and FMVP he isnt on that level.

it wasnt just a coincidental title.  he

* put a dagger in Philly, game 7 buzzer beater, 35ppg for series

* 30ppg through the bucks series

* 28ppg this offseason, leading team in every single major statistical category - pts, boards, dish, stls, blocks. 

this wont be his last conference final

[Vic Mackey 46,936]

[aggie08 21,434]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

For all the people who were saying Kawhi was on LBJ's level this season he sure as hell isnt getting killed like LBJ would if went out like this in a game 7.     The talk would be non-stop and all the naysayers would be out stroking themselves about how right they were about LBJ's lack of killer instinct.

 

1) To your point, he's not LeBron. LeBron is held to a higher standard and rightfully so.

2) He doesn't have a history of playoff failures like Harden.

3) He's not popular enough to be hated (outside of San Antonio) like Steph with people rooting for him to fail.

I guess you can argue that he at least should be getting the kind of heat that KD would have had his orchestrated NBA superteam power move come up hilariously short. But he's just not nearly as fun to rag on as guys that actually speak. A few memes seems about right for him.

[d2o 1,602]

9 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

1) To your point, he's not LeBron. LeBron is held to a higher standard and rightfully so.

2) He doesn't have a history of playoff failures like Harden.

3) He's not popular enough to be hated (outside of San Antonio) like Steph with people rooting for him to fail.

I guess you can argue that he at least should be getting the kind of heat that KD would have had his orchestrated NBA superteam power move come up hilariously short. But he's just not nearly as fun to rag on as guys that actually speak. A few memes seems about right for him.

That is my point.  There were many saying he was on LBJ's level.   There were even a few idiots who said if he won another title and FMVP he would be top 5 all time.   Completely insane but still.    Its just awful quiet for a guy that many had the best in the league right now to fail so miserably and its pretty much be gone in 24hrs.    Shit there are more people who are now saying that LBJ got let off the hook and already trying to minimize a possible Laker title than actually talking about how catastrophic of a failure this was for Kawhi.   

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,799]

Kawhis quad is going to flare up next year as he asks to be traded across town in summer 2021

[Braff Zacklin 13,420]

27 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Kawhis quad is going to flare up next year as he asks to be traded across town in summer 2021

Bullshit.

 

He'll have his uncle make the demand for him.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,523]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

it wasnt just a coincidental title.  he

* put a dagger in Philly, game 7 buzzer beater, 35ppg for series

* 30ppg through the bucks series

* 28ppg this offseason, leading team in every single major statistical category - pts, boards, dish, stls, blocks. 

this wont be his last conference final

There is nothing you can do or say to convince me that the Raptors would have beaten a healthy Warriors team last year. I think he gets viewed through a different lens if that happens. Nobody is denying that he's a great, great player and arguably one of the best five in the world. But this is the first time in his career that he's ever had to assume a leadership position and establish/promote a culture. And I don't think it's a coincidence that you see his team bickering with each other and pointing fingers and generally acting like a bunch of bitches. Because he's a bitch, too. San Antonio had the strongest culture in the league when he was drafted. Toronto had a great culture that was driven by Kyle Lowry and their front office. The Clippers have a bunch of cheap shot artists and bitch ass hoes and that's exactly how they went out.

Throughout the history of the league, it's greatest players were also great leaders and great teammates: Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, Duncan, Kobe, Isiah. Steph Curry is a great leader. Lebron is a great leader. Kawhi is a borderline mute with the personality and social skills of a lamp shade. And where is the rest of the leadership going to come from on that team?  That goldbrick load management motherfucker sure as shit isn't going to provide it. How about Playoff P, who whines publicly and blames his poor play on the bubble mentally draining him? That yapping chihuahua cheap shot motherfucker Pat Beverly? Lou Williams with his strip joint Covid hot wings? Marcus "my word is my bond" Morris? Bitches, every last one of them. 

Unrelated to any of that, there is a pretty good article on Bam Adebayo on the ringer today. bam article 

Tjarks goes a little bit overboard with his praise, but this defensive sequence is fucking incredible. I've watched it about 50 times. He traps the screen at half court after switching off his man, recovers just in time to deny an entry pass, slides over to cut off one baseline drive and then crosses the lane to stop another one and force a turnover. It's just a ridiculous sequence and he completely blows up this play.  During this ten second clip, he somehow manages to check all five of the Celtics at different time points. Dude is a menace.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Mitch Cumsteen

[aggie08 21,434]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

That is my point.  There were many saying he was on LBJ's level.   There were even a few idiots who said if he won another title and FMVP he would be top 5 all time.   Completely insane but still.    Its just awful quiet for a guy that many had the best in the league right now to fail so miserably and its pretty much be gone in 24hrs.    Shit there are more people who are now saying that LBJ got let off the hook and already trying to minimize a possible Laker title than actually talking about how catastrophic of a failure this was for Kawhi.   

Other than the Skip Bayless types, has LeBron really gotten that much heat for his losses since he got his first ring? Lost to SA: "The Heat are getting too old for even LeBron to carry." Lost to GS: "Kyrie and Love were out, and he should have still won Finals MVP." Lost to GSx2: "With KD, the Warriors aren't even fair. Dude averaged a triple-double and still lost!" Missed the playoffs: "He was injured and came back too early to try to help his team."

I feel like the narrative that LeBron gets too much scrutiny is way overblown once he got his ringz. People being reluctant to put him ahead of MJ isn't the same as calling him a chump.

If Kawhi didn't already have rings, I'm sure he'd be taking it on the chin much worse.

Edited September 17, 2020 by aggie08

[d2o 1,602]

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Other than the Skip Bayless types, has LeBron really gotten that much heat for his losses since he got his first ring? Lost to SA: "The Heat are getting too old for even LeBron to carry." Lost to GS: "Kyrie and Love were out, and he should have still won Finals MVP." Lost to GSx2: "With KD, the Warriors aren't even fair. Dude averaged a triple-double and still lost!" Missed the playoffs: "He was injured and came back too early to try to help his team."

I feel like the narrative that LeBron gets too much scrutiny is way overblown once he got his ringz. People being reluctant to put him ahead of MJ isn't the same as calling him a chump.

If Kawhi didn't already have rings, I'm sure he'd be taking it on the chin much worse.

Interesting.   

[52-80 19,096]

24 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

...everything...

 

 

well..... you aint wrong

[d2o 1,602]

29 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

There is nothing you can do or say to convince me that the Raptors would have beaten a healthy Warriors team last year. I think he gets viewed through a different lens if that happens. Nobody is denying that he's a great, great player and arguably one of the best five in the world. But this is the first time in his career that he's ever had to assume a leadership position and establish/promote a culture. And I don't think it's an coincidence that you see his team bickering with each other and pointing fingers and generally acting like a bunch of bitches. Because he's a bitch, too. San Antonio had the strongest culture in the league when he was drafted. Toronto had a great culture that was driven by Kyle Lowry and their front office. The Clippers have a bunch of cheap shot artists and bitch ass hoes and that's exactly how they went out.

Throughout the history of the league, it's greatest players were also great leaders and great teammates: Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, Duncan, Kobe, Isiah. Steph Curry is a great leader. Lebron is a great leader. Kawhi is a borderline mute with the personality and social skills of a lamp shade. And where is the rest of the leadership going to come from on that team?  That goldbrick load management motherfucker sure as shit isn't going to provide it. How about Playoff P, who whines publicly and blames his poor play on bubble mentally draining him? That yapping chihuahua cheap shot motherfucker Pat Beverly? Lou Williams with his strip joint Covid hot wings? Marcus "my word is my bond" Morris? Bitches, every last one of them. 

Unrelated to any of that, there is a pretty good article on Bam Adebayo on the ringer today. bam article 

Tjarks goes a little bit overboard with his praise, but this defensive sequence is fucking incredible. I've watched it about 50 times. He traps the screen at half court after switching off his man, recovers just in time to deny an entry pass, slides over to cut off one baseline drive and then crosses the lane to stop another one and force a turnover. It's just a ridiculous sequence and he completely blows up this play. Dude is a menace.

 

 

Just think, there were people who were saying that he and Theis was a toss up.

 

 

[aggie08 21,434]

49 minutes ago, d2o said:

Interesting.   

On the court, at least. Off the court, obviously some of the criticisms that he gets for everything he says, or doesn't say, are pretty ridiculous.

But on the court, other than Skip Bayless, Paul Pierce and Twitter tools, who is still trying to say that he isn't clutch or overrated or soft, even when he does lose?

[Dutchrudder 11,115]

So if Kawhi had stayed with Toronto this past season, he would probably be in the Finals again going against a weak Lakers team.  Crazy to think, but man did he make the wrong choice there. 

[touchthemonolith 646]

1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

So if Kawhi had stayed with Toronto this past season, he would probably be in the Finals again going against a weak Lakers team.  Crazy to think, but man did he make the wrong choice there. 

He'd have to live in Toronto, though. 

[52-80 19,096]

30 minutes ago, touchthemonolith said:

He'd have to live in Toronto, though. 

From a living perspective, I don't see what's more attractive about LA either....

[d2o 1,602]

10 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

From a living perspective, I don't see what's more attractive about LA either....

Winter 

[aggie08 21,434]

12 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

From a living perspective, I don't see what's more attractive about LA either....

The LA that you and I know doesn't in any way resemble the LA that NBA superstars know.

[Kermit 3,128]

Doesn’t Toronto have a reputation for the best strip clubs in North America?

[touchthemonolith 646]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

From a living perspective, I don't see what's more attractive about LA either....

I'd probably prefer living in Toronto over LA, all things considered. But if you took a poll of people who--like Kawhi--are from southern Cal, and asked them "Where would you rather live, LA or Toronto", I bet I know how most of them would answer.

In any event, the point being it was about location for Kawhi. If it was all about rings then he shouldn't have signed with the Clips or stayed with the Raptors: he shouldn't have ever left San Antonio. When he played his last healthy game with San Antonio, he was playing in Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals--having won 61 regular season games--and he was up 21 points against a fully-loaded GSW when he got hurt. I feel pretty confident that team could've not only cruised to a chip last year with the Warriors banged up, but would be playing in the WCF in the bubble.

Brb, pouring a river of bourbon in my mouth.

[52-80 19,096]

10 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

The LA that you and I know doesn't in any way resemble the LA that NBA superstars know.

It doesn't seem that Kawhi's private life would resemble that of most NBA superstar however. 

 

Maybe he a super freak.

[Sbbruin 21,737]

2 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

So if Kawhi had stayed with Toronto this past season, he would probably be in the Finals again going against a weak Lakers team.  Crazy to think, but man did he make the wrong choice there. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Sbbruin

[aggie08 21,434]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

It doesn't seem that Kawhi's private life would resemble that of most NBA superstar however. 

 

Maybe he a super freak.

I'm not talking about whores. ...okay, I'm not just talking about whores. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

Kawhi isn't getting a ton of criticism because he has a low profile, doesn't Twitter or make movies or wear stupid outfits.  It's a simple as that.  Go to the spurs thread though, plenty of criticism. 

[Kermit 3,128]

20 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Kawhi isn't getting a ton of criticism because he has a low profile, doesn't Twitter or make movies or wear stupid outfits.  It's a simple as that.  Go to the spurs thread though, plenty of criticism. 

Fuck Kawhi Leonard.

[BradInATX 9,208]

There is nothing you can do or say to convince me that the Raptors would have beaten a healthy Warriors team last year. I think he gets viewed through a different lens if that happens. Nobody is denying that he's a great, great player and arguably one of the best five in the world. But this is the first time in his career that he's ever had to assume a leadership position and establish/promote a culture. And I don't think it's a coincidence that you see his team bickering with each other and pointing fingers and generally acting like a bunch of bitches. Because he's a bitch, too. San Antonio had the strongest culture in the league when he was drafted. Toronto had a great culture that was driven by Kyle Lowry and their front office. The Clippers have a bunch of cheap shot artists and bitch ass hoes and that's exactly how they went out.

Throughout the history of the league, it's greatest players were also great leaders and great teammates: Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell, Duncan, Kobe, Isiah. Steph Curry is a great leader. Lebron is a great leader. Kawhi is a borderline mute with the personality and social skills of a lamp shade. And where is the rest of the leadership going to come from on that team?  That goldbrick load management motherfucker sure as shit isn't going to provide it. How about Playoff P, who whines publicly and blames his poor play on the bubble mentally draining him? That yapping chihuahua cheap shot motherfucker Pat Beverly? Lou Williams with his strip joint Covid hot wings? Marcus "my word is my bond" Morris? Bitches, every last one of them. 

Unrelated to any of that, there is a pretty good article on Bam Adebayo on the ringer today. bam article 

Tjarks goes a little bit overboard with his praise, but this defensive sequence is fucking incredible. I've watched it about 50 times. He traps the screen at half court after switching off his man, recovers just in time to deny an entry pass, slides over to cut off one baseline drive and then crosses the lane to stop another one and force a turnover. It's just a ridiculous sequence and he completely blows up this play.  During this ten second clip, he somehow manages to check all five of the Celtics at different time points. Dude is a menace.

 

 

That's wild. His motion is so long, but not slow like most long-striders. Just as crazy as that sequence is that he took a total of maybe 12 steps the whole time. Freak. That athleticism with his motor and hustle.. sky is the limit.

 

[ztejas 43,266]

2 hours ago, Kermit said:

Doesn’t Toronto have a reputation for the best strip clubs in North America?

Montreal 

[conVINCEd 21,468]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Montreal 

If they got an expansion team Harden would demand a trade.

[ztejas 43,266]

I dont know if I'm more impressed by Adebayo or Herro on this team. 

Fucking Pat Riley, man. They got Herro at 13 and he's probably the 3rd best player from that draft.

[Underdog 28,457]

This Heat team is fearless. 

[ztejas 43,266]

Just now, Underdog said:

This Heat team is fearless. 

They're really fucking good. Assuming they make it, West champ is going to have their hands full.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4,669]

36 minutes ago, Underdog said:

This Heat team is fearless. 

They are so fun to watch and easy to root for. 
 

Jimmy Fucking Butler

[Js1 85,110]

This is fun 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,799]

This series is awesome

[Braff Zacklin 13,420]

Super close series. Could easily be 1-1 or 2-0 the other way, but Miami making more plays when it matters most.

[aggie08 21,434]

Glad to see Dragic finally on a good team. Dude is nails. Leads Miami in points in the postseason and is 2nd in assists.

[SilasCoade 2,620]

Watching Boston struggle against this zone like a middle school team has me rethinking my brad Stevens opinion 

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

Just now, aggie08 said:

Glad to see Dragic finally on a good team. Dude is nails. Leads Miami in points in the postseason and is 2nd in assists.

I think he may be the most underrated player in the league. He can always get his shot off the dribble. Deadly from 3. He fits their system perfect.