2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[shadow_operative 15932]

Just now, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Your posts about LeBron and the Lakers sound very objective and reasonable. 

yep. 

[Vic Mackey 46936]

Pretty damn cool.

[ztejas 43266]

19 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Pretty damn cool.

How many guys have done that? Duncan and Kareem off the top of my head. AC Green on a quick investigation. Was Havlicek still on the Celtics for Bird's first?

[conVINCEd 21468]

Lebron

[Underdog 28455]

For the same franchise at that. 

[ztejas 43266]

7 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Lebron

Well... yeah.

[Vic Mackey 46936]

33 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Lebron

I sometimes forget he went to that 2007 Finals. 

[conVINCEd 21468]

Also worth noting that Iggy is playing in his 6th consecutive Finals.

[Rougarou 594]

I get that a lot of people like the Heat, but no-brainer rooting for the Lake Show. The ghost of Kobe won't let the Lakers lose in 2020 anyways, but Anthony Davis is such a great player and good dude and someone for me that is easy to root for.

[ztejas 43266]

36 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I sometimes forget he went to that 2007 Finals. 

Well he punched his ticket. Not sure he ever actually showed up. Was a bit of a formality.

[hobbes2702 12826]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Neither LeBron nor AD "lives at the rim", and seriously- the Lakers got a bunch of favorable calls. If you watched the games you saw it. Doesn't mean it was a damn conspiracy, but it did happen. The Lakers entire team leaned on the officials (led by LeBron, the whiniest, most petulant all-time great athlete), and not that it's anything new, it worked. how much of LBJ and his team's whining affected the calls, i don't know. but don't sit here and tell you watched those games and saw fair officiating. the Lakers were favored by the officials. 

Lebron is 6th in the league is shots from the restricted area. AD is 14th. Each of them take over a third of their shots at the rim. 

[Vic Mackey 46936]

[d2o 1602]

 

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

Lebron is 6th in the league is shots from the restricted area. AD is 14th. Each of them take over a third of their shots at the rim. 

Thank you.   This shit aint that fucking hard to understand.    Well it shouldn't be.

[Sbbruin 21734]

Lakers are -360 for the series. That's a pretty hefty favorite.

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

Lakers are -360 for the series. That's a pretty hefty favorite.

I dont know too much about odds but I do know this series should be a pretty close call.   MIA has great matchups for LBJ and AD.   They are also the deeper team.   

[shadow_operative 15932]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Lebron is 6th in the league is shots from the restricted area. AD is 14th. Each of them take over a third of their shots at the rim. 

since when does taking 2/3 of your shots away from the rim constitute "living at the rim"? besides which, your reference to the pair "living at the rim" does not even address what actually happened in the last two games of the series. it wasn't that the Lakers' two stars "lived at the rim" while the Nuggets took jumpers, it was that if the Lakers drove they got a whistle seemingly every time, and the Nuggets didn't, despite Jokic, Grant, and Murray all driving to the rim repeatedly. Not to mention the early/often BS and/or soft fouls on Jokic that didn't get called when AD and LBJ did the same. 

[d2o 1602]

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/09/28/report-victor-oladipo-looking-to-leave-pacers-this-offseason/

 

Report: Victor Oladipo looking to leave Pacers this offseason

Victor Oladipo was reportedly leaning toward leaving the Pacers in 2021 free agency.

He might prefer to exit sooner.

Jared Weiss of The Athletic:

Victor Oladipo looking to move on this offseason, according to sources

Oladipo has had an enjoyable and fruitful time in Indiana.

It’s also easy to see how he’d hold bigger ambitions on and off the court.

The Pacers control the situation for now. Oladipo is under contract next season at $21 million. But the specter of him leaving in 2021 unrestricted free agency applies implicit pressure. Indiana could trade him rather than risk him walking for nothing.

Of course it’s not fait accompli Oladipo would leave the Pacers in 2021 free agency. They’re looking for a new coach, and maybe that hire would help motivate Oladipo to stay. Indiana could take the upcoming season to sell him on a new direction. If going that route, the Pacers could still pivot before the trade deadline. That plan would allow Oladipo time to get healthy and boost his trade value (or suffer a setback and tank his stock).

Oladipo’s impending free agency also gives him some leverage in trade talks. He can signal an intent to re-sign with only certain teams, motivating those teams to trade for him (and dissuading other teams).

But at this stage, even if Oladipo is ready to leave, Indiana still holds most of the cards.

[52-80 19090]

let's not act like Lebron didnt never graduated the dwayne wade school of dramatic flopping with top honors

 

 

[gernblansten 3188]

[shadow_operative 15932]

and ftr, Andre Drummond and Rudy Gobert live at the rim; LeBron and AD do not. Those two guys take all kinds of shots from all over the court. AD averaged 3.5 3PA/gm this season; LeBron took 6.3 3PA/gm. Both of them handle the ball on the perimeter and take a ton of jumpers. so, yeah. they don't live at the rim. 

[Js1 85109]

Welp!

 

[SEC 1174]

I can totally see the rockets being stupid and going after Doc Rivers.

[washparkhorn 9935]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Welp!

 

Not altogether unfair. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

10 minutes ago, BigXII said:

I can totally see the rockets being stupid and going after Doc Rivers.

Right right tell us all the franchise changing coaches Houston Should go after? Tyron lue? JVG? Sam cassell? Some other nba assistant coach? I’d love to hear who Houston should go after? Houston could hire rivers or any of the above names listed that have been attached to Houston and they would all suck. There aren’t many options available that make you excited. The nba coaching talent pool is pretty small. Most teams are just moving parts around and seeing if they might stick.

[Vic Mackey 46936]

It was time for him to go. Too many blown opportunities and did not even get to the WCF even once. So many had them penciled in as a no brainer as a Finals team this year and they could not even get past Denver. Another blown 2nd round after up 3-1 under Doc. And not to mention in 2014 when they were up 7 with under 1 minute to go against OKC and they they blow that. That was game 5 with the series tied at 2. If he can't even get past the 2nd round with Kawhi in a  weaker than usual West, he has no hope. His voice is now stale.

[shadow_operative 15932]

i think you mean hoarse. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by shadow_operative

[ztejas 43266]

Doc should hang it up. If I'm any team in the league I stay away from him. 

[The Dark Knight 173]

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

The nba coaching pool blows ass. I would take billy Donovan in a heartbeat and I think he sucks. 
 

 

[aggie08 21434]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Welp!

 

Wow! That's smart, but I didn't think they'd have to balls to fire such a prominent player's coach and risk pissing off Kawhi and PG. I think at least one, if not both, of those guys bail after next season if they don't at least make the Finals, and Doc is not the guy you roll the dice with.

[Blotto 23434]

23 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Doc should hang it up. If I'm any team in the league I stay away from him. 

For all of his flaws, he still has the 8th highest career winning percentage among active coaches. He's 58 years old. Knowing the NBA fascination with retreads, he likely has a couple more coaching stops in him if he wants them. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

He will latch on. Just like every other retread in the L. If he needs to be an assistant for a year, he will find a home quite quickly.

Coaches like him, DAntoni, Gentry, Byron/Mike Scott, Thibs will always find work. Then teams realize if they were anything worthwhile keeping, they wouldn’t be out on the market all of the time

[Vic Mackey 46936]

Frank Vogel in these playoffs alone matched the number of series wins Doc had during his 7 seasons with LA. Lulz. Doc won in 14 against GSW. 15 against someone. And this year against Dallas. Dallas pushed LA to 6 even being injured and missing their 2nd best player. 3 total series wins in 7 years. 

[d2o 1602]

42 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Doc should hang it up. If I'm any team in the league I stay away from him. 

Nah, he's great at getting below avg teams to overachieve.  There are plenty of teams that could do well with him

[Nicole44 22027]

11 minutes ago, d2o said:

Nah, he's great at getting below avg teams to overachieve.  There are plenty of teams that could do well with him

What about OKC? I know they are targeting other coaches though. 

[Blotto 23434]

5 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Lakers are -360 for the series. That's a pretty hefty favorite.

Yeah I'm awfully tempted to take the Heat at damn near 3 to 1 odds, but I realize that my temptation could simply reflect my dislike of Lebron and what I want to happen. It just  seems like a more even series than the odds would imply. Both teams were 12-3 in the playoff bubble and the Lakers beating the 3,4,8 seeds doesn't impress me more than the Heat taking out the 1,3,4 seeds even taking into account the relative strengths of the two conferences. I don't expect the Heat to win, but could they win 1 series in 4 against the Lakers? I'll probably throw a smallish wager on the Heat, and then if they lose game 1 check out the adjusted odds in that case.

[BradInATX 9208]

17 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Where’s everyone at with Tatum after this series? I came away thinking I was down on him but his numbers were better than I realized. Just still seems to be taking the same bad shots too often. I just don’t know that I see the MVP caliber ceiling that it seems everyone seems to have for him

 

Man, this is a really good question and a tough one. Boy do he and his talent pass the eyeball test and he has potential to be an elite-tier player in the NBA. He seems to be a smart kid with his head right. 

He really needs to be a stronger finisher and attack the rim. Like you said, he can get really lazy with his shot selection. The dude is 6'8", strong as an ox, and can jump through the gym. How many of the dudes on this list are better suited to attack the rim in the NBA?

Quote

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Jimmy Butler
Anthony Davis
Kawhi Leonard
DeMar DeRozan
Christian Wood
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
Danilo Gallinari
Bam Adebayo
Kristaps Porziņģis
Pascal Siakam
Chris Boucher

Giannis and AD, that's about it. He is on the same "physical freak" tier as Siakam and Bam. 

But all of those players average more free throws per 36 than Tatum. He's got to fix that. He And it's one of the reasons that I think Brad Stevens is slightly overrated as a coach. His teams settle way too much. On no planet should Danilo Gallinari be better at getting to the free throw line than a guy with Tatum's tangibles.

He reminds me a lot of another Celtic; Paul Pierce. When I saw him in person in San Antonio, I was blown away by his physical gifts, and had a hard time understanding why he wasn't a perennial MVP contender. But he had the same problem. He got complacent a lot. 

 

Tatum = third tier, perennial all-star but not "my wife knows who they are" (tier 1) or "elite" (tier 2). Potential to go as high as one can get if he puts it together. And this is not meant to shit on Tatum at all. He made a huge, huge leap from last year to this year. If he keeps doing that and making big imrpovements year-over, he's going to be an MVP contender very very soon.

Edited September 29, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

Some of you might call me insane for this, but I think MDA would be a a fantastic hire for the Clippers. Never in my life did I ever think I'd say that about any team, but here we are. They have the small ball personnel that he likes and they have the talent, depth, and energy on defense to overcome the pressure and fatigue that his system puts on a team defensively. He'd be my first call. If they had even an average offense in the playoffs they'd still be playing.

Edited September 29, 2020 by BradInATX

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Some of you might call me insane for this, but I think MDA would be a a fantastic hire for the Clippers. Never in my life did I ever think I'd say that about any team, but here we are. They have the small ball personnel that he likes and they have the talent, depth, and energy on defense to overcome the pressure and fatigue that his system puts on a team defensively. He'd be my first call. If they had even an average offense in the playoffs they'd still be playing.

What would he do when Kawhi tries to play some defense by moving his feet?  Bench him?

 

[BradInATX 9208]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

What would he do when Kawhi tries to play some defense by moving his feet?  Bench him?

 

Good question. What's Melo up to?

[ztejas 43266]

2 hours ago, Blotto said:

Yeah I'm awfully tempted to take the Heat at damn near 3 to 1 odds, but I realize that my temptation could simply reflect my dislike of Lebron and what I want to happen. It just  seems like a more even series than the odds would imply. Both teams were 12-3 in the playoff bubble and the Lakers beating the 3,4,8 seeds doesn't impress me more than the Heat taking out the 1,3,4 seeds even taking into account the relative strengths of the two conferences. I don't expect the Heat to win, but could they win 1 series in 4 against the Lakers? I'll probably throw a smallish wager on the Heat, and then if they lose game 1 check out the adjusted odds in that case.

I would be tempted to throw money on the Heat if I wasn't sure that they are going to be playing 5 on 8 every night. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Giving Paul George the green light to cast 26 3s a game? Glhf

[aggie08 21434]

23 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I would be tempted to throw money on the Heat if I wasn't sure that they are going to be playing 5 on 8 every night. 

C'mon man, even removing the officiating stuff, do you really believe that the Heat have a chance? In the NBA, where superstars has the largest direct impact, they're going to beat the best player in the sport and another Top 5 guy without a single legitimate superstar and zero Finals' experience in their core? This ain't the Pistons beating an old Lakers team on the verge of killing each other every game. They had a great season, and beat up on the JV conference in the bubble, but I expect the series will go much like the WCF: competitive, but not particularly close, with it feeling like the Heat are always trailing.

Disclaimer: as always, I really hope that I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it.

 

[ztejas 43266]

9 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

do you really believe that the Heat have a chance?

Yes. I think they are objectively the better team going in. They were the best team in the East. I think they are better than Denver. Spo has been by far the best coach in the entire playoffs. 

9 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

even removing the officiating stuff,

Well, I can't do that. But they might win anyway. But I think the Lakers would probably prevail over a long series. And I don't think Denver got jobbed by the refs or anything - the Lakers would have won that series either way. 

My main point is that Miami +300, on paper, is an absurd line. But I can't discount whatever bullshit might happen to work against them. Whatever anyone think happened to Denver it will be worse in this series. Just watch. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by ztejas

[UTDD 362]

Good to see that people can change their thoughts on a team with new evidence as I certainly recall more than one person thinking Miami had no chance against Milwaukee.  I think Miami is really playing well, and I think they can give the Lakers a competitive series.  Bam is one of the few players as a coach I would feel ok with matching up against AD, and they play really hard nosed, disciplined basketball.  I personally think Spo might be the best coach in the entire NBA, and certainly one of the 3-4 I would try to hire if I was an owner of a team.  The main reason I would favor the Lakers overall is mostly LeBron James.  He seems to be playing at a very high level right now, and I feel like he knows this kind of chance may never happen again so he will go all out for it.  I'm also surprisingly (did not expect it to be honest) low key impressed with some adjustments Vogel has made in these playoffs.  The narrative of guys like Kidd possibly sniping behind Vogel for his job way back when he was hired seems like such a distant memory now.  The Lakers looked basically dysfunctional at times (Magic Johnson/Rob Pelinka stuff as well, and a bit before that, the atrocious Mosgov/Deng contracts) and somehow it's worked out for them.

I really wonder about the Clippers and who they will hire for next year.  I think they made the right move, and I would guess Kawhi could have saved Doc if he wanted to (just the nature of the NBA with a guy at his level only one year away from free agency again) so the fact that Doc is gone speaks volumes about Ballmer and possibly Kawhi as well.  Maybe the rumors of Doc losing some of the role players because of not holding PG13 more accountable had some real smoke behind it...I don't know...

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

So the Clippers shitcanned Doc Rivers? With all due respect, fuck him. 

With regard to the finals, I think the Lakers match up fairly well with the Heat. I think it comes down to how well the Heat rebound, the Lakers knocking down threes and whoever plays better at point guard. If Rondo or Dragic significantly out play one another, then it could tilt a game or two or even the series. 

The Lakers also deserve a lot of credit for their defense. They did a really good job against Denver and Houston, two of the most difficult teams in the league to stop. Miami presents a different issue because they play such good defense themselves, but Adebayo isn't going to be able to roam around as much and cause havoc like he did against Boston. Leaving Theis to go switch onto a guard 25 feet from the basket is a different animal than leaving Anthony Davis. Related, Miami at some point is going to need to get some good minutes from Olynyk and possibly Meyers Leonard. 

Ultimately, I really like the Heat role players and the way they gut it out but the Lakers have the two best players in this series by a wide ass margin. I hope to hell I'm wrong but I think the Lakers win in 5.

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

11 hours ago, BradInATX said:

 

Man, this is a really good question and a tough one. Boy do he and his talent pass the eyeball test and he has potential to be an elite-tier player in the NBA. He seems to be a smart kid with his head right. 

He really needs to be a stronger finisher and attack the rim. Like you said, he can get really lazy with his shot selection. The dude is 6'8", strong as an ox, and can jump through the gym. How many of the dudes on this list are better suited to attack the rim in the NBA?

Giannis and AD, that's about it. He is on the same "physical freak" tier as Siakam and Bam. 

But all of those players average more free throws per 36 than Tatum. He's got to fix that. He And it's one of the reasons that I think Brad Stevens is slightly overrated as a coach. His teams settle way too much. On no planet should Danilo Gallinari be better at getting to the free throw line than a guy with Tatum's tangibles.

He reminds me a lot of another Celtic; Paul Pierce. When I saw him in person in San Antonio, I was blown away by his physical gifts, and had a hard time understanding why he wasn't a perennial MVP contender. But he had the same problem. He got complacent a lot. 

 

Tatum = third tier, perennial all-star but not "my wife knows who they are" (tier 1) or "elite" (tier 2). Potential to go as high as one can get if he puts it together. And this is not meant to shit on Tatum at all. He made a huge, huge leap from last year to this year. If he keeps doing that and making big imrpovements year-over, he's going to be an MVP contender very very soon.

Yeah but your tiers are messed up. By your scale jimmy butler would be tier 1, but the reason your wife knows his name is because you constantly say it in your sleep at night. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Yeah but your tiers are messed up. By your scale jimmy butler would be tier 1, but the reason your wife knows his name is because you constantly say it in your sleep at night. 

This is where the middle finger rep that doesn't actually neg rep would come in handy

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

18 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah but your tiers are messed up. By your scale jimmy butler would be tier 1, but the reason your wife knows his name is because you constantly say it in your sleep at night. 

This is where the middle finger rep that doesn't actually neg rep would come in handy

I’ve said that many a time. Either that or when somebody posts a tweet that’s like jakensmith to miss third consecutive game, Jordan Whittington classified as mostly dead. 
you want to give the middle finger to what you just read but not the guy who posted it. 

[BradInATX 9208]

I can't wait for this series. I give the Heat much more of a chance than most of you guys do. Lakers are definitely the favorite, but I don't think it's a 4-1 series. 

- Denver gave the Lakers a challenge, and without Davis' improbable shot, that series could have been different. The Heat are scrappy too but also much deeper from 1-8 and better coached.

- Bam is a tougher, quicker defender for AD than Jokic is. I don't think he'll have the same foul issues. Spo will probably tell them not to challenge AD or LBJ when they're established under the basket. Just give up the two (ala Pop). 

- The Heat are not going to get out-rebounded by 10+ in multiple games like Denver did. They're tremendous on the glass. I wouldn't be surprised if they out-rebound LA on the series. 

- They have more bodies to throw at LA than any team they faced so far has. As Mitch mentioned, we might see some Olynyk. But I think we're going to see less of him and more Iguodala. No need to overexplain this, ya'll know Iggy's history vs. LBJ. Of all of LA's playoff opponents, Miami is the best situated to muck and ugly it up on defense. 

- I've been waiting for a team to hustle and grind the Lakers down to fatigue, but the Clippers Clippers'd and the Nuggets didn't have the bodies. Miami might be that team.

Denver had two plus-defenders getting legit playoff minutes, Miami has five or six. And the minus defenders (Dragic and Robinson) are going to be guarding guys like Rondo and Caruso who don't scare anyone or Green and KCP who are purely spot-up shooters. 

Bam and Jimmy are going to have tough sledding on offense. It's all going to come down to whether or not the role players can carry water on that end. Dragic and Herro have been playoff well above their regular season levels in the bubble. Can they keep it up? The only way the Heat win is if those two guys and possibly a third step up. The opportunities should be there on the perimeter, the Heat might force LA to play bigger than they'd like. A player to watch for Miami is Jae Crowder, he could be important.

 

I'll go Lakers in 7. From a matchup and legacy perspective this has all the trappings of a LeBron series, and LeBron/the refs aren't going to allow Miami to win a legacy-defining game that a game 7 would be.