2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[Sbbruin 21724]

3 minutes ago, d2o said:

KCP is another unsung guy this season.   He's been everything that Danny Green was supposed to be.    A rugged defender who doesnt miss when he gets open shots.

Agreed.  And Danny Green has been a bust.  

[ztejas 43263]

20 minutes ago, d2o said:

LBJ led teams have been the favorites in 4 of the 10 that they've been.  3 of the 4 Heat series and this yr IIRC.

OKC was actually favored in 2012 but shouldn't have been. I think 2017 was maybe close odds-wise too. Not sure about 2015.

Don't disagree with the rest of your points. It's good nuance. They are very close both in ability and what they've done in their careers. But unfortunately for LeBron, at the end of the day winning is winning. I'm also not sure LeBron is the best player on his team right now, which you could never really say about Jordan, as good as Pippen was. LeBron and AD are neck and neck advanced stats wise right now and it seems like they've had an equal amount of games where one carried the other. 

[d2o 1602]

21 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Agreed.  And Danny Green has been a bust.  

A MASSIVE bust.   Especially when you factor in what they paid him.

[d2o 1602]

22 minutes ago, ztejas said:

OKC was actually favored in 2012 but shouldn't have been. I think 2017 was maybe close odds-wise too. Not sure about 2015.

Don't disagree with the rest of your points. It's good nuance. They are very close both in ability and what they've done in their careers. But unfortunately for LeBron, at the end of the day winning is winning. I'm also not sure LeBron is the best player on his team right now, which you could never really say about Jordan, as good as Pippen was. LeBron and AD are neck and neck advanced stats wise right now and it seems like they've had an equal amount of games where one carried the other. 

 

I get that winning is winning to many people.   I just think that is flawed thinking in a team sport with a whole lot of variables.  Even moreso when certain losses are ignored.

Edited October 1, 2020 by d2o

[BradInATX 9208]

45 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah see this is off and only sees wins vs losses as "getting it done".   Basketball is not an individual game.   The Bulls were favored in at least 4 of the 6 Finals they were in.  I think they were dogs in the first one against the Lakers and the last one against the Jazz when people were drinking that Jazz kool-aid.

LBJ led teams have been the favorites in 4 of the 10 that they've been.  3 of the 4 Heat series and this yr IIRC.   They may have been favored in the first go round with GSW and then Kyrie went down in gm 1 and just about any chance they had went with him.   Still he managed to stretch that one to 6 gms.

Did LBJ not take over the series when they lost to GSW in 2017 when he avg'd 33/12/10 or in 2015 when he avg'd 34/13/9 and many were saying he prolly should have been MVP even though they lost?

MJ "got it done" when he avg'd 27/4/5 against SEA on 41%/31% shooting and 18 TOs in 6 gms?  He was 5/19 in the closeout game and finished with 22 pts.

Wait let me make sure I understand the argument - your argument is that Jordan should get dinged for being 4 for 4  or 5 for 5 (or whatever it is, no idea how to look up lines) in series' where they were favored? Is that worse than LeBron's 2 for 4 in series where they were favored?

Again, none of what we're going back and forth about includes LeBron's time with Cleveland, because I'm not out to penalize him for that. You're arguing an argument that I'm not even making - LeBron played very well in both of the GSW losses. Nobody is saying otherwise. Those are just straw men you're setting up.

The argument is that, when you look at MJ and LBJ where they were on equal footing with good teams and good coaches, LeBron is 2/4 and MJ is 6/6(or7). And that's the difference between the two. Jordan's peak-prime period on a good team includes six straight dominating performances. LeBron equivalent includes two titles in four years, one epic series choke, and one absolute dick-slapping at the hands of the Spurs. Would peak Jordan have let either of those two things happen to his team? Absolutely not. You know it. I know it. Everybody who watched Michael Jordan play knows it. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by BradInATX

[d2o 1602]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Wait let me make sure I understand the argument - your argument is that Jordan should get dinged for being 4 for 4  or 5 for 5 (or whatever it is, no idea how to look up lines) in series' where they were favored? Is that worse than LeBron's 2 for 4 in series where they were favored?

Again, none of what we're going back and forth about includes LeBron's time with Cleveland, because I'm not out to penalize him for that. You're arguing an argument that I'm not even making - LeBron played very well in both of the GSW losses. Nobody is saying otherwise. Those are just straw men you're setting up.

The argument is that, when you look at MJ and LBJ where they were on equal footing with good teams and good coaches, LeBron is 2/4 and MJ is 6/6(or7). And that's the difference between the two. Jordan's peak-prime period on a good team includes six straight dominating performances. LeBron equivalent includes two titles in four years, one epic series choke, and one absolute dick-slapping at the hands of the Spurs. 

You said:  LeBron will never be able to say that. In fact he's really only done that one time in his career vs. GSW.

I just gave you multiple other examples of times that he "took over series"

 

You also said: The difference is that once Jordan peaked, he did it every single time it was needed. Every single time. Sure, he had some games where he played poorly just like every player. But never, ever when he had to have it. 

I then gave you an example of where it could definitely be debated that he didn't "take over the series"

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Doc coaching the 6ers


Lol. Home run!!!

[Hate 20103]

Drexler was 3rd team All NBA that year.  He had his best year since in 3 years and was still pretty damn good. He had a PER of 22.4, WS/48 over .200 and VORP of almost 6, which was 5th in the league.  He was still a superstar when traded.  He faded quickly in subsequent years and maybe that's what you're remembering, but for that run, he was fantastic.  

Lol...you should know better than to argue with a Rockets fan about those years.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

You said:  LeBron will never be able to say that. In fact he's really only done that one time in his career vs. GSW.

I just gave you multiple other examples of times that he "took over series"

 

You also said: The difference is that once Jordan peaked, he did it every single time it was needed. Every single time. Sure, he had some games where he played poorly just like every player. But never, ever when he had to have it. 

I then gave you an example of where it could definitely be debated that he didn't "take over the series"

You're being pedantic for the sake of it  now. "Taking over a series" includes winning it. Would you say Tim Duncan "took over" the WCSF vs. Dallas when he averaged  32/12/4/2/1 and lost? Of course not. Great performance? Yep. "Took over the series"? Nope. 

And I guess on the second point you missed "where it was needed". Was that Seattle series ever in danger whatsoever? The Bulls got off to a 3-0 lead. Do you have any doubt in your mind that in a game 7, Jordan would have taken the game over and won it? Of course you don't.

[d2o 1602]

11 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Doc coaching the 6ers


Lol. Home run!!!

Agreed.   Great hire for them.   A definite upgrade from Brett Brown.

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You're being pedantic for the sake of it  now. "Taking over a series" includes winning it. Would you say Tim Duncan "took over" the WCSF vs. Dallas when he averaged  32/12/4/2/1 and lost? Of course not. Great performance? Yep. "Took over the series"? Nope. 

And I guess on the second point you missed "where it was needed". Was that Seattle series ever in danger whatsoever? The Bulls got off to a 3-0 lead. Do you have any doubt in your mind that in a game 7, Jordan would have taken the game over and won it? Of course you don't.

Nah, I'm not.   Ok, you've said it.   You can only take over a series if you win.    I disagree.   Carry on.

[ztejas 43263]

19 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

I get that winning is winning to many people.   I just think that is flawed thinking in a team sport with a whole lot of variables.  Even moreso when certain losses are ignored.

There is no other (popular) team sport where individual talent matters as much, though. Which is why winning is valued so highly when it comes to basketball. 

And I'd like to think MJ and LeBron have had similar career opportunities when it's come to ability to win championships.

[Js1 85104]

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

4 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

i mean that's why i questioned it.  we've all seen worse on this board.

i'm zoom schooling 4 kids.  my silliness meter doesn't work anymore.

 

And that's fair.

[Vic Mackey 46935]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

I don't know what Brad is referring to exactly so we may be on a different page, but Jordan was 6/7 in years he played. I thought that's what he meant. I don't know why you would include 94 and not 95. It did happen but MJ was just getting back into game shape and they were playing as the 5 seed without HCA.

Besides, who gives a shit about the Magic series loss. They only went on to 3 peat. Again. He could have just not played in '95, no sense in faulting him for trying. Just like faulting LeBron for losing in 2007 or a year like 2015 or 2018 would be silly. Making the Finals was the accomplishment.

This is the issue I have with so many people's logic. Lebron gets trashed for his Finals losses. But MJ does not get trashed for all his losses earlier in the playoffs. So getting to the Finals is worse than losing in the 1st or 2nd round? Or even the ECF? Lebron has won his conference 10 times now. MJ fans better hope Lebron never gets to 6 rings because then what is their argument going to be when they bring up MJ in relation to what Lebron is doing? I am not sure what he ends up at or how long he keeps playing.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

I don't know what Brad is referring to exactly so we may be on a different page, but Jordan was 6/7 in years he played. I thought that's what he meant. I don't know why you would include 94 and not 95. It did happen but MJ was just getting back into game shape and they were playing as the 5 seed without HCA.

Besides, who gives a shit about the Magic series loss. They only went on to 3 peat. Again. He could have just not played in '95, no sense in faulting him for trying. Just like faulting LeBron for losing in 2007 or a year like 2015 or 2018 would be silly. Making the Finals was the accomplishment.

6/8 for winning titles in his prime.  He didn't win the 95 title when he played and he didn't win in 1989. He was clearly in his prime in 1989 and he had Pippen along for the ride and the nucleus of the title team.  They don't get to act like that wasn't a failure losing in 7. That team coulda/shoulda/would won a title

[staboner 4957]

5 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah- if it was only dumars I’d probably agree with you- but they also had Rodman and The microwave, Salley and Lambeer. I don’t think you can make the argument that the pistons were talent deficient, but they were the next closest team to complete with Hakeem and Dirk. 

Rodman for sure. Every talking about Dumars and he most certainly was money, but Rodman is a top 5 defender or all time (if he cares enough to play in the game).

That Pistons team is a well made machine. Leadership, youth/experience, strong role players, and bench guys like the microwave that relished that role. great teams. could have won 3 or 4 finals if wasn't for Isaiah's famous passing F up against the celts

[ztejas 43263]

11 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

6/8 for winning titles in his prime.  He didn't win the 95 title when he played and he didn't win in 1989. He was clearly in his prime in 1989 and he had Pippen along for the ride and the nucleus of the title team.  They don't get to act like that wasn't a failure losing in 7. That team coulda/shoulda/would won a title

Sure. It was 1990, btw. And I don't really care whatever number you put on the bottom. The number on the top is 6. Brad is the one fixated on the x out of x line of thinking.

17 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lebron gets trashed for his Finals losses. But MJ does not get trashed for all his losses earlier in the playoffs.

Because MJ has twice as many titles. It's that simple. Whether you agree or not.

[staboner 4957]

5 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Dream won back to back titles without another all NBA 1st, 2nd or 3rd teamer, no other Allstate in year one (and maybe year 2 but Clyde got in there late and he was past his prime) and laid waste to HOFers all over the place. I’d argue that was the greatest 2 year stretch of single handed domination ever and put that up with any of MJ’s 2 year spans. 
MJ sustained that for a decade. Hakeem only touched that top of the mountain for a little bit. 

Peak Hakeem was undoubtedly one of the strongest of all time for points you mention. 

I mean he played point guard at center, was the last line of defense and got physically assaulted by Malone, the Knicks front court, and Shaq. Hakeem was undersized and pulled off 5x5s in the playoffs. and a buttfucking of Robinson on top of all that. + ~30 ppg against Barkley's suns back to back.

Dude was + 5 - 10 ppg in the playoffs. always turned it up and in those years hardly lost a battle. Would have been 92/93 too but Rockets didn't have Cassel. IMO he was the missing ingredient as Ksmith was not consistent enough. 

[ztejas 43263]

8 minutes ago, staboner said:

Hakeem was undersized

Huh? Hakeem Olajuwon?

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

Seen the majority of both’s career. It’s MJ and it’s not close. 
 

50% or more of what makes Lebron special is his freakish size and athleticism. It’s like comparing Hakeem to Shaq. Sure Hakeem was a vastly superior basketball player, but Shaq’s one of a kind size and athleticism make him the more dominant NBA player. 
 

Hell, if the NBA knew how to properly call a charge Lebron wouldn’t be in the conversation offensively. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[Pam Cummings 9576]

3 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Agreed.  And Danny Green has been a bust.  

Danny Green's very presence elevates a team to championship caliber.

 

Kidding, but he plays some of the best transition defense i've ever seen.

[Pam Cummings 9576]

2 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Wait let me make sure I understand the argument - your argument is that Jordan should get dinged for being 4 for 4  or 5 for 5 (or whatever it is, no idea how to look up lines) in series' where they were favored? Is that worse than LeBron's 2 for 4 in series where they were favored?

Again, none of what we're going back and forth about includes LeBron's time with Cleveland, because I'm not out to penalize him for that. You're arguing an argument that I'm not even making - LeBron played very well in both of the GSW losses. Nobody is saying otherwise. Those are just straw men you're setting up.

The argument is that, when you look at MJ and LBJ where they were on equal footing with good teams and good coaches, LeBron is 2/4 and MJ is 6/6(or7). And that's the difference between the two. Jordan's peak-prime period on a good team includes six straight dominating performances. LeBron equivalent includes two titles in four years, one epic series choke, and one absolute dick-slapping at the hands of the Spurs. Would peak Jordan have let either of those two things happen to his team? Absolutely not. You know it. I know it. Everybody who watched Michael Jordan play knows it. 

I personally think that the 2014 Spurs could have dick slapped anyone anytime, but i may be a bit biased.

[staboner 4957]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Huh? Hakeem Olajuwon?

in modern times no, but in the 90s yes it could be argued. of course the game he developed was ideal to his body type and he played ~ 20 lbs lighter later in his career when he was winning those chips. 

I actually met him in person a few times in the lockeroom (during finals with the Magic). he was shockingly not that big. Shaq was f'ing huge. just completely ran him over a few times in that series. I remember screaming for charges over and over again. 

[staboner 4957]

this is a LBJ Jordan thing I see.

I really didn't like LBJ for a long time but I do admire him as a professional. He is smart and dedicated. Works fucking very hard and understands when to turn on the throttle. I could argue he is in his prime now still in terms of efficacy. He is a tank coming downhill and completely dictates the entire half court offence. He is making the entire team function at a higher level. Thats all credit to him. Definitely raised my opinion of him watching the playoffs this year.

[Pam Cummings 9576]

10 minutes ago, staboner said:

this is a LBJ Jordan thing I see.

I really didn't like LBJ for a long time but I do admire him as a professional. He is smart and dedicated. Works fucking very hard and understands when to turn on the throttle. I could argue he is in his prime now still in terms of efficacy. He is a tank coming downhill and completely dictates the entire half court offence. He is making the entire team function at a higher level. Thats all credit to him. Definitely raised my opinion of him watching the playoffs this year.

He's never had a #2 that he plays well with the way he does with Davis. He and Wade had issues with sharing the ball and had to figure it out. Same with Kyrie.

 

With AD, their games fit each other better than any other duo and that's why they ran through the west relatively easily. It really is reminiscent of Shaq and Kobe.

 

[hobbes2702 12804]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Seen the majority of both’s career. It’s MJ and it’s not close. 
 

50% or more of what makes Lebron special is his freakish size and athleticism. It’s like comparing Hakeem to Shaq. Sure Hakeem was a vastly superior basketball player, but Shaq’s one of a kind size and athleticism make him the more dominant NBA player. 
 

Hell, if the NBA knew how to properly call a charge Lebron wouldn’t be in the conversation offensively. 

Why do y’all do this? He’s one of the best passers and basketball minds the game has ever seen.

[ztejas 43263]

1 hour ago, staboner said:

in modern times no, but in the 90s yes it could be argued. of course the game he developed was ideal to his body type and he played ~ 20 lbs lighter later in his career when he was winning those chips. 

I actually met him in person a few times in the lockeroom (during finals with the Magic). he was shockingly not that big. Shaq was f'ing huge. just completely ran him over a few times in that series. I remember screaming for charges over and over again. 

I don't think smaller than Shaq = undersized. He was bigger than DRob and the same size as Ewing.

(Going off of listed sizes, at least)

Edited October 2, 2020 by ztejas

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

Just now, ztejas said:

I don't think smaller than Shaq = undersized. He was bigger than DRob and the same size as Ewing.

Nah. He was 6’10.5 or so. A little undersized for center. He had trouble against Eaton bc he was so much bigger. And a couple other of the bigger guys too. 

[Blotto 23432]

Quote

The Brooklyn Nets named Steve Nash their head coach in early September, but stars Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant see Nash in more of a collaborative role and not as the head of top-down leadership.

"I don't really see us having a head coach," Irving said on Durant's new podcast, "The Etcs." "KD could be a head coach, I could be a head coach [some days]."

Durant followed up by agreeing with Irving, calling it a "collaborative effort" and naming assistant and former interim head coach Jacque Vaughn as someone who could fill the role any given day.

Nash, who was a shock hire by the Nets, said when he was named coach that he was especially excited to work with Irving, calling the star point guard a "savant with the basketball." Irving, though, said on the podcast that he doesn't know Nash that well but is looking forward to working with him.

"Steve is great, and I have a relationship with him that's going to build over time, bro," Irving said. "Steve don't know me from anything he heard or he's heard someone else. We've worked out one time in 2014, but it's grown as just a respectful relationship from afar. I saw him at the Hall of Fame two years ago, gave him a big hug and now he's the head coach. And I think it's also going to change the way we see coaches.

This really sounds like its gonna work out well, lulz. Ive been wrong before, but I suspect KD is gonna regret pairing up with headcase Kyrie. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

This thread suddenly sucks, fwiw.

[Brew 3045]

2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Seen the majority of both’s career. It’s MJ and it’s not close. 
 

50% or more of what makes Lebron special is his freakish size and athleticism. It’s like comparing Hakeem to Shaq. Sure Hakeem was a vastly superior basketball player, but Shaq’s one of a kind size and athleticism make him the more dominant NBA player. 
 

Hell, if the NBA knew how to properly call a charge Lebron wouldn’t be in the conversation offensively. 

Seen the majority of both careers. It’s probably Jordan, but it’s closer than you give Lebron credit for. The game is different, it is called different, team makeup’s are completely different, and this is Lebron 10th finals. There are several teams in there that had no business being in the finals. Hell, if they sweep Miami, Lebron will have a better playoff games winning percentage even with the 6 Finals series losses. It’s crazy to see him still competing at the level he is, avoiding injury for the most part, potentially going to pick up another title, and more years still ahead of him.

Your player comparison sucks just for the record. 

[Thatguy 8495]

5 hours ago, ztejas said:

OKC was actually favored in 2012 but shouldn't have been. I think 2017 was maybe close odds-wise too. Not sure about 2015.

Don't disagree with the rest of your points. It's good nuance. They are very close both in ability and what they've done in their careers. But unfortunately for LeBron, at the end of the day winning is winning. I'm also not sure LeBron is the best player on his team right now, which you could never really say about Jordan, as good as Pippen was. LeBron and AD are neck and neck advanced stats wise right now and it seems like they've had an equal amount of games where one carried the other. 

   Bron is the engine that makes them work.

[ztejas 43263]

7 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   Bron is the engine that makes them work.

I guess. I dont think they'd be much of a shit without either of them. They need AD's scoring and defense for everything to work just like they need LeBron's passing and leadership. 

And that's not some knock on LeBron in his 17th season - AD is just really fucking good. 

[ztejas 43263]

26 minutes ago, Llogg said:

This thread suddenly sucks, fwiw.

Right. "suddenly"

[Sbbruin 21724]

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

He's never had a #2 that he plays well with the way he does with Davis. He and Wade had issues with sharing the ball and had to figure it out. Same with Kyrie.

 

With AD, their games fit each other better than any other duo and that's why they ran through the west relatively easily. It really is reminiscent of Shaq and Kobe.

 

You could have argued that in the early 2000’s, Shaw and Kobe were the #1 and #2 players in the NBA.  It’s pretty close to the same with AD and LBJ.

[immortal13 4059]

5 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

This is the issue I have with so many people's logic. Lebron gets trashed for his Finals losses. But MJ does not get trashed for all his losses earlier in the playoffs. So getting to the Finals is worse than losing in the 1st or 2nd round? Or even the ECF? Lebron has won his conference 10 times now. MJ fans better hope Lebron never gets to 6 rings because then what is their argument going to be when they bring up MJ in relation to what Lebron is doing? I am not sure what he ends up at or how long he keeps playing.

Jordan never whored himself out to make super teams

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

4 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Why do y’all do this? He’s one of the best passers and basketball minds the game has ever seen.

Sure. He’s a better Magic. A much more apt comparison sans titles. 

[Thatguy 8495]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

I guess. I dont think they'd be much of a shit without either of them. They need AD's scoring and defense for everything to work just like they need LeBron's passing and leadership. 

And that's not some knock on LeBron in his 17th season - AD is just really fucking good. 

Last year pre injury they were the 3 seed and climbing. Would they have gotten beaten in the playoffs? Sure they would've, but I think we forget that you can drop the guy on any team and it's pretty much instant deep run barring injury. AD? Not so much.

[aggie08 21431]

50 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Sure. He’s a better Magic. A much more apt comparison sans titles. 

So he's a better Magic--already a Top 5 All-Time player--with all of the passing ability and basketball IQ that that implies. And as you say, and I'm paraphrasing, he's probably the most physically and athletically gifted basketball player ever, making him extremely difficult to officiate, let alone guard. Yep, I can see how you came to your conclusion that the LeBron/MJ debate "isn't even close."

[ztejas 43263]

32 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Last year pre injury they were the 3 seed and climbing. Would they have gotten beaten in the playoffs? Sure they would've, but I think we forget that you can drop the guy on any team and it's pretty much instant deep run barring injury. AD? Not so much.

You're taking this off track very quickly. My original point was that if you labelled LeBron and AD's advanced metrics in the playoffs as Player A and Player B you'd just be shooting in the dark or flipping a coin to match the right player to the right numbers. That was never the case with MJ and any of his teammates. Who you think the better player is between LeBron and AD is irrelevant to my point. 

[d2o 1602]

12 hours ago, staboner said:

Rodman for sure. Every talking about Dumars and he most certainly was money, but Rodman is a top 5 defender or all time (if he cares enough to play in the game).

That Pistons team is a well made machine. Leadership, youth/experience, strong role players, and bench guys like the microwave that relished that role. great teams. could have won 3 or 4 finals if wasn't for Isaiah's famous passing F up against the celts

Rodman was well before his prime with those Piston teams.   As mentioned earlier, he wasnt even starting at that time.

They also prolly have a threepeat if it wasnt for the phantom foul call for Kareem in 88.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

9 hours ago, aggie08 said:

So he's a better Magic--already a Top 5 All-Time player--with all of the passing ability and basketball IQ that that implies. And as you say, and I'm paraphrasing, he's probably the most physically and athletically gifted basketball player ever, making him extremely difficult to officiate, let alone guard. Yep, I can see how you came to your conclusion that the LeBron/MJ debate "isn't even close."

Yes. The gap from 1-2 is larger than the gap from 2-10. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

On 10/1/2020 at 8:49 AM, d2o said:

I've always liked Dwight.   He's an idiot but he doesnt fuck up watching a game for me like Draymond does with all his fucking whining and bitching.

Man d2o, you consistently have some of the best basketball takes on here... but liking Dwight Howard is definitely not one of them. He is arguably the most detestable NBA player of the last 15 years. Just a complete jackass on and off the floor. He was an overgrown, enabled child who blamed teammates and coaches for his own failings. He famously backstabbed Stan Van Gundy to get him fired and then immediately lied to him right to his face. He alienated teammates at every stop. He was toxic to every teammate, coach and franchise he ever played for. He played the game the absolute wrong way. He played the devout Christian card while having multiple baby mommas. Fuck that piece of shit, backstabbing hypocrite. The absolute worst part of this Lakers championship is his redemption story. Fuck all that. 

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Man d2o, you consistently have some of the best basketball takes on here... but liking Dwight Howard is definitely not one of them. He is arguably the most detestable NBA player of the last 15 years. Just a complete jackass on and off the floor. He was an overgrown, enabled child who blamed teammates and coaches for his own failings. He famously backstabbed Stan Van Gundy to get him fired and then immediately lied to him right to his face. He alienated teammates at every stop. He was toxic to every teammate, coach and franchise he ever played for. He played the game the absolute wrong way. He played the devout Christian card while having multiple baby mommas. Fuck that piece of shit, backstabbing hypocrite. The absolute worst part of this Lakers championship is his redemption story. Fuck all that. 

I hear ya.   He has been hypocritical and a bad teammate in many instances.    I was never a big SVG fan when he was here honestly though.    Dwight always played hard when he was here.   He definitely was whiny and wack but he was a kid.   He thought the grass was greener in LA and found out the hard way it wasn't.    He then has been in pretty bad situations (that he clearly made worse) at every stop after he left.  I know some of you guys with HOU ties cant ever forgive him.  I get that.

That said he seems to have changed taking a non-guaranteed offer from the Lakers (which was his only offer that I know of) and has been a model teammate this season.    He has played very well for them this yr and handled himself professionally.   Shit changes, people grow.

 

[d2o 1602]

17 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Yes. The gap from 1-2 is larger than the gap from 2-10. 

[ztejas 43263]

5 minutes ago, d2o said:

and has been a model teammate this season.

I'm not sure how you would know that. 

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm not sure how you would know that. 

First and foremost, he is on a non-guaranteed contract.   If he was causing issues they would have dumped him long ago.    There were also reports of how well he handled being benched in the HOU series.   He also came back in the DEN series and was totally engaged.    Like I said, I get you TX guys never forgiving him but he is doing all of the things that most wanted him to do before.   Accepting his role and competing hard when his number is called.

[ztejas 43263]

11 minutes ago, d2o said:

First and foremost, he is on a non-guaranteed contract.   If he was causing issues they would have dumped him long ago.    There were also reports of how well he handled being benched in the HOU series.   He also came back in the DEN series and was totally engaged.    Like I said, I get you TX guys never forgiving him but he is doing all of the things that most wanted him to do before.   Accepting his role and competing hard when his number is called.

That's fair. It's kind of a way of saying they don't really need him on the team but he's given them some good minutes and not caused any meltdowns which is what you can ask of him at this point in his career. 

And I'm not "you Texas guys". Unless you're ribbing me because you know I hate being called a Rockets fan. 

[d2o 1602]

4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

That's fair. It's kind of a way of saying they don't really need him on the team but he's given them some good minutes and not caused any meltdowns which is what you can ask of him at this point in his career. 

And I'm not "you Texas guys". Unless you're ribbing me because you know I hate being called a Rockets fan. 

Hey  Tejas in your name = one of you TX guys hahahahahhahahaahaha