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Ken Burns: Country Music. 8 episodes. 16 Hours. Starts Sep. 15.

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futureman

futureman 22464

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10 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

 But what a crazy credit to him that he heard it, then woke up Merle, then went and laid it down about as well as it could be done, all in one night.

not better than townes performing it at his best.  sadly, he was rarely at his best.  “rear view mirror” is pretty close to it, though. 

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atomheartbevo

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Will post more tomorrow, but thinking about the omissions...well, first, I think they should have had an episode just covering the 80s, and then end it with a 9th episode up through '96.  I think they could have addressed a lot of complaints with that extra episode, because the 8th episode would have had room to breathe (and they could have pulled in more late '70s artists).

Anyways, in terms of omissions, I think Billy Joe Shaver was the main travesty, simply because of the whole Outlaw/Waylon thing.  Waylon (and later Willie) had a massive impact on the direction that country music was going when they got their contracts changed, and pushing Texas up to the level of Nashville and Bakersfield/LA, which opened a lot of doors, and I think BJS should have gotten a big shout-out in Episode 7.

A lot of the omissions seemed to come down to either time constraints, or they didn't cause a massive sea-change in a direction that country music was headed or cause an offshoot (which ties back into time constraints - they weren't worthy of much mention).  Glenn Campbell is a great example of that - I like some of his music, think he's an amazing guitar player, but he came over to country - he did not cause country music to go in a certain direction, or anything of that nature -  he was no Emmylou Harris bringing in a ton of folk fans or inspiring some major players down the road.  If he stays in LA, stays with the Wrecking Crew or stays in that pop/rock/whatever movement, country music would not have been changed in anyway.  Come at me bro if you disagree, and again, no disrespect is meant, but in the context of the series, people like Campbell (and maybe even Don Williams and a few others) simply weren't steering country in any one direction, or causing an offshoot (such as Waylon and Wilie) or getting country back to its roots, etc.  They were simply successful within country music, but country music wasn't necessarily successful because of them.  Or to put it in Waylon terms, they needed Nashville more than Nashville needed them.

It's late, and I'm phrasing that shitty, but having seen all 8 episodes, and a couple of them twice, I get what Burns and Co. was trying to do - show you the major players who shaped it, show you the major changes,  show you the major events (from the death of Jimmie Rogers to the death of Hank, all the way up to Ricky Skaggs finally getting a Bluegrass tune up to #1 in the 80s), and show you how country kept trying to come back to its roots (all the way up into the 80s with George Strait, Reba, etc.).

Obviously, the elephant in the room is Conway Twitty, and according to a friend whose dad is a diehard Twitty fan, it's most likely because his estate is a complete and utter shitshow, with the kids still going after Sony Music as recently as 10 years ago (shortly before the series started production).  He's convinced that Burns deliberately shied away from Twitty, because there was a very real possibility the remaining kids would start slinging more lawsuits around - there are plenty of articles on the web about how that bunch sued each other, the record companies, etc. etc.

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bamachine

bamachine 1231

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2 hours ago, RPM said:

Got damned dusty all of the sudden.

The whole "Where've You Been?" hit me pretty hard. I recall hearing it back in the day but that was way before I watched my dad go through Alzheimer's. He was born the same year as Johnny Cash but outlived him by 16 years. I watched him go through everything, so I was kind of numbed to it when he passed back in Feb. It hit me hard tonight though. Then after I got my eyes cleared enough to unpause the dvr, they hit me with "Go Rest High On That Mountain" and Vince struggling to get it out. Had to pause again. Then they hit me with Roseanne struggling to sing at Johnny's memorial service. Stop it, ya'll killin' me.

 

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RPM

RPM 26321

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I grew up force fed Bob Wills and honky tonk music. According to my Dad everything else was n***** or f***** music. I branched out when I heard Steve Miller. I still have a soft spot for old country, especially outlaw country. 

At one point I was a DJ at a country station and covered Farm Aid II. I managed to keep one trophy from there, a press folder with a majority of the performers autographs. There's a shitload more on the inside and back, but I had it framed and still have it.

Some of the visible signatures are William Lee Golden of The Oak Ridge Boys, Emmy Lou Harris (who looked like an angel), David Allen Coe, Dwight Yoakum, Willie Nelson and Kris Kristofferson (I got to watch him throw a wasted Willie into a limo by his belt). That's just the front cover! 

I also got Playboy Playmate Kimberly McArthur's autograph. Undoubtedly the hottest woman standing less than a foot away from me wearing a negligee that I did not screw in my life. The perfect set of tits and an ass that brought tears to your eyes. Thank you Hugh for trying to make a girl band that performed in lingerie! You can do the Googles on her (Miss January 1982), she's from Ft. Worth.

 

IMG_20190926_041131.jpg

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Nueces River Rat

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On 9/24/2019 at 9:01 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Tonight’s was my favorite by far, wished it could have gone on an hour around the Texas stuff.     Surprised and pleased by the solid coverage of Townes van Zandt.  They did a really good job of contrasting Austin/Texas with Nashville and LA.  

Yes!  I loved the fact they got some of the Tejano influence in there interviewing Johnny Rodriguez and profiling Freddy Finder and Flaco Jimenez.    Brings back a ton of memories too being I'm from South Texas where many of these guys cut their teeth in the dance halls and cantinas .    

Last nights episode was good, but I was surprised how little time they spent on George Strait.    Dwight Yoakum got a lot more time compared to George.    Also surprised they didn't do a quick thing about Greene Hall where many of these late 70's and 80's artists played before they hit the big time.   One just needs to walk in that place and look at the walls and it's a who's, who of country music who played there when they were green and up and coming.  

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17682

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I agree with AHB above.  Burns told a consistent narrative via a series of the main players in the history of Country.  Sure, there were a ton of favs in there that got passing mention but for the reasons AHB stated.  On the whole, I thought it was great.

I am left to wonder why there wasn't a George Strait interview.  It's not like he isn't around and I can't believe they didn't ask him.  I feel like he must've declined for some reason.  This is pure speculation, but it just seems to be a pretty glaring void when you're interviewing the other major players of the era (Vince Gill, Garth Brooks, etc.).

 

 

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Trey3216

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19 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I agree with AHB above.  Burns told a consistent narrative via a series of the main players in the history of Country.  Sure, there were a ton of favs in there that got passing mention but for the reasons AHB stated.  On the whole, I thought it was great.

I am left to wonder why there wasn't a George Strait interview.  It's not like he isn't around and I can't believe they didn't ask him.  I feel like he must've declined for some reason.  This is pure speculation, but it just seems to be a pretty glaring void when you're interviewing the other major players of the era (Vince Gill, Garth Brooks, etc.).

 

 

Maybe George wanted to do the interview for free, but ol' Ken would've had to pay the Ace in the Hole Band $500k.  

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Chad Fuck

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49 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Maybe I missed it, but did George influence the direction of country or was he just another, very successful Texas band/performer ?

Considering he was the most successful ever, that in itself was pretty influential.  

I remember hearing the buzz on him before he made it.  Lots of "there's this fella from down around San Marcos who's an actual cowboy who's pretty good.  Oughta check him out," kinda talk.  

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 minute ago, TXLNGHRN10 said:

He was one of the main artist going back to a traditional country sound 

Thanks, traditional country or Texas traditional country ?  I'm rock and roll, and bluegrass, and GS is definitely not in my wheel house, so I just don't have enough knowledge to trace his roots back to anyone in particular.

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Onboard 2.0

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5 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Considering he was the most successful ever, that in itself was pretty influential.  

I remember hearing the buzz on him before he made it.  Lots of "there's this fella from down around San Marcos who's an actual cowboy who's pretty good.  Oughta check him out," kinda talk.  

Yeah he definitely had the sound, but did he push the brand or just go back to the roots and take others in that direction ?  My takeaway was that he was a cowboy and he sings country was the big thing.

 I can't say I'm a fan of his brand of country, but get why people dig him.  I also think the modern commercial machine contributes a bit to artists success in the 70's and beyond.  Garth Brooks exhibit A.  I always looked at him as more of a lost soul between rock and country.

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TXLNGHRN10

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6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Thanks, traditional country or Texas traditional country ?  I'm rock and roll, and bluegrass, and GS is definitely not in my wheel house, so I just don't have enough knowledge to trace his roots back to anyone in particular.

Traditional country
There was a huge pop influence on a lot of the country music at the end of the 70s and early 80s. Disco influences, strings, polished pop sounds were in a lot of the music.
The show talked about how artist like George, Ricky Skaggs, Randy Travis and Dwight Yoakum, played traditional sounding country music and made it popular again.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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1 minute ago, TXLNGHRN10 said:

Traditional country
There was a huge pop influence on a lot of the country music at the end of the 70s and early 80s. Disco influences, strings, polished pop sounds were in a lot of the music.
The show talked about how artist like George, Ricky Skaggs, Randy Travis and Dwight Yoakum, played traditional sounding country music and made it popular again.

Yeah the pull back from the Nashville sound. I got all that. He certainly moved the music back, but his voice could just as easily have been in the Nashville sound studio IMO.  

I mean my favorite female country singer was Patsy (one my favorite females in any genre) and her sound was definitely more in the Nashville music sound.  

I've always gravitated more to Hank, and Flat & Scruggs, and Cash.  All a bit grittier sounding for my taste.

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atomheartbevo

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George Strait is a pretty private individual on a lot of things.  Also, he very well could have been touring as well, because during some of the filming of this series (and interviews), he was on his farewell tour.   A friend of mine has a family member who works for one of the musicians who was asked to interview, and they weren't able to because they were on tour, and would have missed a couple of days (and had to eat the costs).

Strait was worthy of being included - no other artist of any genre  has as many #1 singles as he does, and he was a major part (if not the leader) of the movement to bring country music of the 80s back away from country pop and closer to the roots.  I'm guessing that Burns would have accommodated him (especially given that he fit the mold of how country music can stray from its roots, but people like Strait always help bring it back), so I'd guess it was a personal preference on Strait's part.

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Nueces River Rat

Nueces River Rat 5539

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Maybe I missed it, but did George influence the direction of country or was he just another, very successful Texas band/performer ?


I think he hit the spot where he appealed to the fans of country being produced in the late 70’s into the 80’s and fans of what would be beginnings of mainstream country (IE Garth Brooks). which has now transitioned into Bro- Country. There were a few other who fit this back in the day, but I think because George Strait had the name recognition and he toured anywhere their was a rodeo arena or stock show going on he helped more than others.

I was in high school during that era and listened to Country before Country was cool along with your hard rock and metal. But I guess it was probably around 86 or 87 or so when people I knew flipped from hating country to embracing it thanks to George and then Garth Brooks kind of sealed the deal and really opened up the audience for country.
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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14597

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Slowly getting caught up here:

I'm struck boy how many of these guys were drunken degenerates.  Literally every day of their lives they were bombed out of their gourd.  (Meanwhile, the female artists were hard working and squeaky clean but that's a different story.)  Anyway, you don't see that at all today.  Imagine Tim McGraw regularly not showing up for shows because he's passed out drunk.  The business is just too physically demanding now compared to back then.  You also have social media now so there's that.

Did not realize Dolly was such smoke when she was young.  I've always been fascinated by her life story and business acumen.  I think I said this earlier but if I could have any five living people over for dinner at the same time, Dolly might make the list.  Great life, great story, and funny.

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bluto

bluto 4929

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14 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The business is just too physically demanding now compared to back then.

is it? i mean the guys these days have palaces on wheels compared to what i imagine the old dogs got around in, and the tour schedule can't be that much more intense than it was then.

 

and holy shit, had NO idea crystal gayle is loretta's sister. CG was so incredibly beautiful in her day. 

 

 

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DougO

DougO 5248

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I've been watching this thing late nights. It's interesting, but doesn't even seem like a real documentary. It seems like Burns just selected some bands he likes and shoved them into the basic burns doc style. He tries to tie things together with some circular connection, but they rarely mean much to the actual evolution of country music, they're just kind of interesting. I don't feel like I know much more about country music by watching this. It seems like a well made random fan film.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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4 minutes ago, DougO said:

I've been watching this thing late nights. It's interesting, but doesn't even seem like a real documentary. It seems like Burns just selected some bands he likes and shoved them into the basic burns doc style. He tries to tie things together with some circular connection, but they rarely mean much to the actual evolution of country music, they're just kind of interesting. I don't feel like I know much more about country music by watching this. It seems like a well made random fan film.

Well now THAT's a contrarian take.

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futureman

futureman 22464

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1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

People don't realize how rich Dolly Parton is.  She plays up the Good 'Ol Gal from East Tennessee angle but she's easily the richest person in Nashville and that includes Garth Brooks.

did you mean richest entertainer?  thomas frist probably has a net worth 15x dolly parton.  he’s not the only nashville billionaire, either. 

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4th&Five

4th&Five 41554

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57 minutes ago, DougO said:

I've been watching this thing late nights. It's interesting, but doesn't even seem like a real documentary. It seems like Burns just selected some bands he likes and shoved them into the basic burns doc style. He tries to tie things together with some circular connection, but they rarely mean much to the actual evolution of country music, they're just kind of interesting. I don't feel like I know much more about country music by watching this. It seems like a well made random fan film.

That was the criticism in some of the reviews I read too. I will say it spent a crazy amount of time on Cash. He’s obviously important but it seemed like they kept trying to tie everything back to him. 
 

I thought it was really good overall but there was plenty of stuff that didn’t interest me at all and some of the stuff I found most interesting was glossed over quickly. 

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WBT

WBT 20572

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I found the Dwight Yoakum story pretty interesting.  For whatever reason, I've never listened to him much and didn't know much about him.  The story he told about the accordion in Streets of Bakersfield reflecting the influence of the hispanic migrants working the same fields that the okies had worked back in the day was pretty cool.

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