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Parents rumble at kids baseball game


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On 6/21/2019 at 9:46 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Refs booting parents (more often than not Moms), coaches booting parents (including our coach tossing one of our own), kids cussing out refs.  A month or so ago a parent for the other team in a regional tournament started in on the center ref maybe a minute or two after the match started.  His go-to insult for a blown offsides call was that the ref was racist.  (The ref was white, as are probably half the kids on our team.)  Kind of a big leap there.

So it's just like the Cloak Room.

Edited by clapclapclap
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2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

My brother and I were almost identical growing up when it came to being obsessed with baseball.  Collected cards, watched every Astros game, studied the box scores in the newspaper the next morning, etc.  My playing career naturally fizzled out before high school, but he was much better than me and was all-in with the Select stuff.  All-day tournaments most weekends, occasionally out of state, lessons/practices multiple times per week, teams with no consistent roster, and so on.  He made his high school team, but by the time he graduated it was obvious that the love for the sport had faded quite a bit.  He still casually keeps up with the Astros, but nowhere to the extent that I do.  There are obviously a million reasons to explain why a person changes as they get older, but a study on baseball burnout would be interesting.  Could explain why there are more kids playing little league than ever before, yet the MLB's popularity continues to decline.

This is pretty much the pattern many of the kids who had parents that were the gung-ho select league advocates ended----   Burnout.   

The last game of their Senior year which was a third or forth  round playoff game pretty much proved the point of what a few of us saw even going back to LL when some of these kids were forced to play both league and select.  I'd say their were about ten to twelve kids on the team that fit this profile and maybe two or three were visibly upset their season was over  along with their high school and competetive baseball careers.   The rest were like, "where's the party?" because graduation was earlier in the day.    I'm certain some of their parents were shocked and if they havent figured it out by now ( this was in 2016),  someday their son or another person will tell them why they were relieved it was over.  

As far as decline of the MLB.  I don't know other than what some of the so called sport experts say such as key demographics losing interest and the fact it can cost and arm and fricken leg even for cheap seats at an MLB park for a family of four or even two for that matter.  One thing I saw on Real Sports awhile back and they tied it in to travel/select is many of your inner city and rural kids can't afford it and thus they have no way of particiapting in baseball because league ball isn't available becaue of cost.    The travel/selects sucked th oxygen out of league ball and nothing is there for these kids to play or develop a love for the game.   For example,  back in my day during summers we had three options.   Connie Mack,  Legion or the Parks and Rec league in one of the larger cities close by allowed neighboring cities to play in their league.   I don't think some of these options are even availble on now?  

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2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Are there any positive results of the current select model in the end.  Are HS teams any better and are the truly elite more college ready or does the burnout factor outweigh positive gains? 

It depends on how the HS teams decides to use that those kids.  Some coaches will assume they are better than other kids because of the hype they've received on these teams and I've seen that thinking on a few HS teams around here not work so well when it came to team cohesiveness, etc during crunch time.     In other words it can lead to a team little primadonnas if you know what I mean.    While others will treat them as any other kid and make them prove it on the field vs the kids who are not neccessarly paying to play on such a scale, if at all.    

 

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There was a pony-level “select” game a few weeks ago next to my son’s soccer field.  I watched a bit, thinking it would surely be pretty high quality ball.  Boy was I wrong.  The pitcher came out for warmups and proceeded to throw three wild pitches in a row.  And his catcher was just as inaccurate on throws back to the mound.  Then the game started.  Sheesh.  These kids were painfully bad.  They had slick unis, though.  

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6 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Are there any positive results of the current select model in the end.  Are HS teams any better and are the truly elite more college ready or does the burnout factor outweigh positive gains? 

Hotels are full and the local Chili's or Buff. Wild Wings prosper in areas where there is a tournament every weekend.

All kidding aside, I have a pretty good barometer for this, as my kids were playing what was then pretty high level HS ball about the time the current "select" movement really gained steam.  They and their buddies who played college ball have now washed through the system into adulthood.

Now I watch some of the same levels of HS ball (and some select) while following my kid sister's spawn in their baseball endeavors.

HS ball (in areas where there are a lot of kids playing travel ball vs. just coming up through a 15 -20 game Little League season every year) has improved over the last 10-15 years.  The quality of and the polish on the game has improved.   I attribute about 75% of that improvement to the sheer increase in the number of repetitions that the kids have.  They've simply experienced more baseball playing 100's more games and taking 1000's more reps that kids in prior decades couldn't replicate. 

25% of the improvement is coaching IMO...they get better coaching at an earlier age when they can develop better habits and muscle memory.  Coaches don't have to undo as much at the HS level any more.

Most, not all, but most select coaches (even the worst) are still better than coach Buttermaker from the local rec league who's coaching is limited to telling a pitcher to throw to the mitt and hitters not to step in the bucket.

It makes HS ball more advanced for sure.  At what cost....that's for the individual to decide.

The rising tide raises all ships however, and an individual player is no more likely to advanced to college and pro ball than the same kid would have 20 years ago.  It's relative across the board.  That's what a lot of parents miss.  Yeah, your kid is better at 13-15 than you ever were and therefore you assume is bound for a collegiate run.....but so is everyone else he's playing with and competing against for a scout's attention.  Your kid isn't developing in a vacuum.

 

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And that's why it is seriously damaging the sport's long term health. Coach Bakich at Michigan is a national hero for his attitude about inner-city kids, etc. High school coaches in all sports are outsourcing their jobs to club teams and it is absolutely screwing over talented kids from lower income families. When faced with one cut to make and two freshman of relatively equal skill, a smart high school coach would cut the kid who's played club ball for 8 years. The other kid has more room for improvement over the next 4 seasons. But that's not the decision that most high school coaches make. Ol' Johnny Club Ball's dad will donate more to the booster club during his 4 seasons.

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2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

And that's why it is seriously damaging the sport's long term health. Coach Bakich at Michigan is a national hero for his attitude about inner-city kids, etc. High school coaches in all sports are outsourcing their jobs to club teams and it is absolutely screwing over talented kids from lower income families. When faced with one cut to make and two freshman of relatively equal skill, a smart high school coach would cut the kid who's played club ball for 8 years. The other kid has more room for improvement over the next 4 seasons. But that's not the decision that most high school coaches make. Ol' Johnny Club Ball's dad will donate more to the booster club during his 4 seasons.

Yeah I can accept that my kids can't be race drivers because I don't have the kind of money to put them in karts, but it's a tough pill to swallow when my kids can't play got damn high school baseball because I can't pay stupid amounts for teams on which they'd play way too many games. 

I also don't believe the coaching they'd get in a pay team would be that much better across the board than many good rec ball coaches I've seen ... unless they're paying for extra coaching as well. Some people miss that the typical rec ball coach of today is a also far cry from the rec ball coach we grew up playing for. There's just so much good (& free) instructional info out there now that wasn't available to us or our coaches when we were growing up. I know I've learned more about hitting as a coach than I ever did as a player, and there are college & pro-experienced guys with my team & others who know a lot more than I do, esp re: pitching. I've heard damn near as many stories about shitty pay team coaches in the last few years as I've heard about shitty rec ball coaches. Maybe even more, given the lack of value some people are getting with pay teams.

It's not coaching that's dragging down the typical rec ball kid that really wants to learn the game. What's typically dragging him down are generally his peers who don't give a fuck. The guys on our teams who care are easily good enough to play on and probably start for every pay team we play.

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Interesting thread that I missed. 

I played youth ball at a pretty high level just before select ball fully took off. We were recruited by the earliest of select teams in the greater Houston area in the '90's. It was often a disorganized mess and paled in comparison to the all star teams we were on. So I largely stayed away. Back then, the money aspect wasn't off the charts and they organized player sponsors for those who couldn't afford the expense.

I played on teams in Pony, Colt, and Palomino that were truly elite, and it was simply a confluence of luck and a visionary coach. There was no recruitment. We were all from Pasadena and happened to be born in the same year. We played in 2 world series, and were 3 outs away from the Colt one. It was fucking wonderful. I played the three major sports and ran track and cross country, so I never really could focus just on baseball, even though the pressure started around it in early high school. After football games, I'd go on Saturday morning every now and then to play the fall ball game, but it was almost physically unbearable because of the beatings from football games the night before. It was just too much. 

Still, by the time I was barely 18 and graduating high school, I had a kid on the way and academic scholarships to Texas. I remember being out on the field in a summer league game and wondering what the fuck I was doing out there. Burnt mentally and happily so. Had offers to play college ball and no interest. I've never missed it, but I enjoy the memories. Playing 70+ games of baseball every spring and summer from 13 years old through 18 was brutal before select ball ratcheted things up a notch.

I tend to think select ball has ruined youth baseball. But maybe it's simply adult greed, fueled by the need to live vicariously through their kids, lest the parents be forced to find shit to do at home on their own or something. 

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On 6/24/2019 at 1:26 PM, Nueces River Rat said:

Some of these high school coaches want to be liked and they will name drop a kid or a group of kids about how they can't wait to get them in their program and that pretty much tells those late bloomers or hard workers to pound sand and don't even bother to show up to tryouts when they are Freshmen.  I can almost be certain in many high school programs with your younger coaches, they are going to give a kid the time of day who played with a certain select team vs one who decided to go the old school route and play league ball and never play on a select team.   

I've never seen this before and my experience has been the opposite, at least in 6A. High School coaches want to win and select players based on athleticism and talent. Many select baseball players get cut their freshman year. Playing select doesn't earn anyone extra cred. Yeah some players are identified before they show up on campus but those are the 14 year olds pitchers that are cruising in the 80's. This is no different than the head football coach at Steele HS anticipating a 14 year old Malcolm Brown to start H.S.

The only bias that I have seen when it comes down to the last few cuts is for the athletic football players that lack a strong tool set but are given the benefit of the doubt. Things were the same when I was in High School, this is Texas football rules the school.

 

 

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Playing 70+ games of baseball every spring and summer from 13 years old through 18 was brutal before select ball ratcheted things up a notch. 

The number of games in teenage baseball are about the same as they were back in the day. It's in the 12 and under levels where the game counts are insane. Why are 10 year olds playing more baseball games than 17 year olds? That makes no sense.

 

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This was posted on my local rag this morning.   LOL!   And much of it was discussed on this thread.

 

Recent survey says Texas sports parents ranked most stressed

https://www.caller.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/07/01/texas-sports-parents-ranked-most-stressed-recent-survey/1599835001/

 

Money quote. 

 

"The most stressful factor of all? The time commitment. According to the release, around 40 percent of parents agreed the days and nights spent traveling, practicing and playing stresses them the most."

 

 

Well... No shit!   Imagine what your kid feels like?

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Guest Lobo

I wonder how many extra marital affairs are started at the practices of these select teams?  Some mom is just burned out and goes to the car during warmups to grab an opioid pill and mini Pinot Grigio.  Sees some dad trying to get some work done in the car before he heads back out to the field to help junior.  They’re both wiped out and feeling neglected and under appreciated.  He says something pithy to her after she says how hard it is to balance all this.  She feels listened to, then asks what he thinks of her new yoga pants.  Next pill is snorted by the two of them off her kids backup LAX stick, and they’re finger banging until it’s his turn to bring out the Powerade-one of which is left in the car to mix up a round of drinks with.   Could be an app for that   

 

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

I wonder how many extra marital affairs are started at the practices of these select teams?  Some mom is just burned out and goes to the car during warmups to grab an opioid pill and mini Pinot Grigio.  Sees some dad trying to get some work done in the car before he heads back out to the field to help junior.  They’re both wiped out and feeling neglected and under appreciated.  He says something pithy to her after she says how hard it is to balance all this.  She feels listened to, then asks what he thinks of her new yoga pants.  Next pill is snorted by the two of them off her kids backup LAX stick, and they’re finger banging until it’s his turn to bring out the Powerade-one of which is left in the car to mix up a round of drinks with.   Could be an app for that   

 

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