The Boomers Ruined Everything

[TwiceHorn 31554]

A common meme around here that is based mostly on correlation. A bit more evidence that it might be true:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/boomers-are-blame-aging-america/592336/?utm_source=feed

[hpslugga 4062]

Who else do you think is pumping out the "millennials are stupid/entitled" hysteria?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, hpslugga said:

Who else do you think is pumping out the "millennials are stupid/entitled" hysteria?

Uhh they do enough self promotion, on the entitled side of the equation.They don't need much help from the boomers on that front.

[hpslugga 4062]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Uhh they do enough self promotion, on the entitled side of the equation.They don't need much help from the boomers on that front.

Even if this was 1/100th as true as you think it is, why do you suppose it is?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19227]

7 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Who else do you think is pumping out the "millennials are stupid/entitled" hysteria?

In fairness it's not just the boomers.  Those of us in Gen X also think you suck - but you don't suck as much as boomers.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Fudge Nuggets

[Js1 85602]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Uhh they do enough self promotion, on the entitled side of the equation.They don't need much help from the boomers on that front.

Sorry can't hear you.  I'm too busy killing, per the Boomers:  

9-5 work schedules
Focus groups
Dinner Dates
Cruises
Napkins
Running
Golf
Soap bars
Sex
Relationships
Marriage
Face to face interaction
Vacations
Home ownership
Wine corks
Diamonds
Department stores

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

Even if this was 1/100th as true as you think it is, why do you suppose it is?

Cause I've seen it first hand. (Some) Millenials  (I've encountered do have an entitled sense of self and worth. I've seen it in the work place first hand. I also recognize they've had a more competitive academic life than folks growing up as boomers had.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Sorry can't hear you.  I'm too busy killing, per the Boomers:  

9-5 work schedules
Focus groups
Dinner Dates
Cruises
Napkins
Running
Golf
Soap bars
Sex
Relationships
Marriage
Face to face interaction
Vacations
Home ownership
Wine corks
Diamonds
Department stores

Oooh, can spell some unrelated words. Goody for you.

[hpslugga 4062]

6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Cause I've seen it first hand. (Some) Millenials  (I've encountered do have an entitled sense of self and worth. I've seen it in the work place first hand. I also recognize they've had a more competitive academic life than folks growing up as boomers had.

That's not what I asked. I asked why you suppose they're entitled, as in "what drives them to be so entitled that they even eclipse the boomers on this front?"

Edited June 24, 2019 by hpslugga

[Bozo_Casanova 26579]

Uhh they do enough self promotion, on the entitled side of the equation.They don't need much help from the boomers on that front.

No they don’t. They are the largest generation in American history and got absolutely boned in every measurable economic indicator. They are the -first- generation to lose jobs, homes, and be denied the opportunity to accrue wealth to the benefit of their own parents. Why shouldn’t they promote themselves? Nobody else will.  

Most of the war fighters I know are millennials. Most of the volunteers I know are millennials. The people I see testifying for homeless shelters and housing for renters are millennials.

They’ve made more sacrifices for their parents mistakes than any generation since the people who fought World War II, and if this country can ever be made great again it will be them and Gen Z who save it, by remaking it in their own image.

 

 

[RomaVicta 30031]

Generation shaming. This ought to be productive.

The truth is that we are all equally worthless.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

That's not what I asked. I asked why you suppose they're entitled, as in "what drives them to be so entitled that they even eclipse the boomers on this front?"

Ahh, Not sure. I think part of it has to do with the immediacy we expect in our society today.  Everything is right there at your finger tips on the Internet. Everything is 24/7. never closing.  Some of it has to do with kids being even more pampered than the boomers were.  Boomers were softer than their parents, those kids were a bit softer than their parents and so on.  It's an old argument.. "kids these days".....

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26579]

Ahh, Not sure. I think part of it has to do with the immediacy we expect in our society today.  Everything is right there at your finger tips on the Internet. Everything is 24/7. never closing.  Some of it has to do with kids being even more pampered than the boomers were.  Boomers were softer than their parents, those kids were a bit softer than their parents and so on.  It's an old argument.. "kids these days".....
 

No, they are much, much harder now, and Gen Z are harder still.

[Hank Kingsley 21059]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Ahh, Not sure. I think part of it has to do with the immediacy we expect in our society today.  Everything is right there at your finger tips on the Internet. Everything is 24/7. never closing.  Some of it has to do with kids being even more pampered than the boomers were.  Boomers were softer than their parents, those kids were a bit softer than their parents and so on.  It's an old argument.. "kids these days".....

 

Maybe it’s....being raised by boomer parents?

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Millennials started adulthood pretty poorly, mainly because of their boomer parents, but have paid their dues and are representing pretty well now, IMO.  

[Hank Kingsley 21059]

Agreed

[RomaVicta 30031]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

No they don’t. They are the largest generation in American history and got absolutely boned in every measurable economic indicator. They are the -first- generation to lose jobs, homes, and wealth to the benefit of their own parents. Why shouldn’t they promote themselves? Nobody else will.

Most of the war fighters I know are millennials. They’ve made more sacrifices for their parents mistakes than any generation since the people who fought World War II, and of this country can ever be made great again it will be them and Gen Z who save it, by remaking it in their own image.

I'm not sure that you can say that it's solely at the hands of boomers, but the millennials have been exploited by the banks, schools, and government in horrific ways.

Graduating college with a debt that would have been a house loan back when I graduated is criminal. Banks make guaranteed loans (no risk. none. it's a feeding trough for banks.) to college students obliged to pay absurdly high tuition and costs to colleges and universities who shamelessly gouge students just because they know that students can easily get loans.

I had two feelings when I returned to the University as an older student:

1. A lot of the University employees seemed to think that they'd have pretty good jobs if there were no students around wasting their time.

2. The University sees the student body as a market more than a body of scholars.

If students can't pay their debts, it doesn't become a bad loan that the bank must take their lumps over. No. The debt is paid by citizens through taxes. Hello millennials, we're all retiring now, so good luck paying off everybody else's exploitive debts!

I think the actual culprits in the exploitation described here are the usual suspects from all generations: the wealthy and powerful who funnel some of their money to politicians for a huge return.

I'm a boomer, and I'm not really getting a lot from this exploitation. I must have missed the generation meeting. I want my cut.

[Fozzz 152]

Ageism isn't the answer.  For all the talk of boomers having it easy, why are so many blowing their brains out?

Quote

We know a fair amount about the patterns of suicide in the United States. In 2017, the rate was highest for men between the ages of 45 and 64 (30 per 100,000) and those 75 and older (39.7 per 100,000).

The rates in rural counties are almost double those in the most urbanized ones, which is why states like Idaho, Kansas, New Hampshire, and North Dakota sit atop the suicide list. Furthermore, a far higher percentage of people in rural states own guns than in cities and suburbs, leading to a higher rate of suicide involving firearms, the means used in half of all such acts in this country.

https://www.thenation.com/article/suicide-rate-americas-latest-epidemic/

[pyrohornIII 4823]

17 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm a boomer, and I'm not really getting a lot from this exploitation. I must have missed the generation meeting. I want my cut.

You mean you don't live in a retirement community in a 2-4,000 sq ft house with just your wife?  You don't have a pair of matching golf carts and a bass/bay boat you use twice a year?  A plastic and plywood RV?  How about an Escalade or Denali truck for you and a BMW/Lexus/Mercedes for your wife?   At least one hunting lease and the requisite ATV for it? 

I am a late boomer.  I live among this type.  And then to hear them talk about how hard they have it, to hear them talk about their grandchildren being idiots for taking out college loans, that just makes me more incredulous.

My grandparents were not like these grandparents I live alongside.  

6 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Ageism isn't the answer.  For all the talk of boomers having it easy, why are so many blowing their brains out?

https://www.thenation.com/article/suicide-rate-americas-latest-epidemic/

Along with the points of the article on income inequality and lack of healthcare I'd like to add a couple more:

I'd point to what I listed above.  These people have based their lives and happiness on what they can accumulate materially.  You never see kids or grandkids except for maybe once or twice a year.   Not all are like this, but I'd say 80%. 

A lot of bitter, unhappy people who have no idea what went wrong or where.  Why they aren't happier? 

 

Secondly, I think that we are seeing more of our parents and older generation growing so old they can't enjoy life anymore.  All they have to look forward to is the next fall or the next Wheel of Fortune show.  I know I can't see the joy in living that long just to end your life laying in pain or a catatonic state?    So, yeah I can imagine some people are looking for alternative ways to leave this life.

All of this ties together in my family and others.  What the answers are, I don't know.

[Celery Man 21003]

The irony of boomers lecturing millennials about entitlement and not being pussy crybabies is rich.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

...and some Boomers, I assume, are good people.

[pyrohornIII 4823]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

...and some Boomers, I assume, are good people.

I'd like to think I am, at least in some areas.  Surely I recognize where I have lacked though.  

[Fozzz 152]

I think stuff like this might have something to do with the suicide spike among older people in rural communities.

 

 

[Fozzz 152]

goddamn i love this country

Quote

They were told to arrive early if they wanted to see a doctor, so Lisa and Stevie Crider left their apartment in rural Tennessee almost 24 hours before the temporary medical clinic was scheduled to open. They packed a plastic bag with what had become their daily essentials after 21 years of marriage: An ice pack for his recurring chest pain. Tylenol for her swollen feet. Peroxide for the abscess in his mouth. Gatorade for her low blood sugar and chronic dehydration.

They took a bus into the center of Cleveland, Tenn., a manufacturing town of 42,000, and slept for a few hours at a budget motel. Then they awoke in the middle of the night and walked toward the first-come, first-served clinic, bringing along a referral from a social worker for what they hoped would be their first doctor’s checkup in more than four years.

“Urgent needs from head to toe,” the social worker had written. “Lacking primary care and basic medication. They have fallen into the gap.”

 

[Captainant 27826]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm a boomer, and I'm not really getting a lot from this exploitation. I must have missed the generation meeting. I want my cut.

I think it's less of a "boomers are extracting wealth from the younger generations" and moreso that "boomers have advocated for and implemented policies that have made equality and opportunity measurably worse".

[RomaVicta 30031]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

I think it's less of a "boomers are extracting wealth from the younger generations" and moreso that "boomers have advocated for and implemented policies that have made equality and opportunity measurably worse".

Hmmmm. That seems to suggest political alignment among an entire generation. Does that seem likely to you?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The boomers normalized greed as a virtue.  That might have been by design from the corporate overlords of their time peddling excess and consumerism as a national pastime. 

[pyrohornIII 4823]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think it's less of a "boomers are extracting wealth from the younger generations" and moreso that "boomers have advocated for and implemented policies that have made equality and opportunity measurably worse".

Yeah, it's mainly the upper 1% doing the bulk of extracting.  

[pyrohornIII 4823]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The boomers normalized greed as a virtue.  That might have been by design from the corporate overlords of their time peddling excess and consumerism as a national pastime. 

Bingo.  They've been taught forever to live the American dream and to live it accordingly.  The American dream was corrupted by those corporate overlords you speak of.  The same overlords who killed the dream for many small business owners, be they dry goods, hardware, pharmacies, cafes, etc. 

And we as a society have been taught to accept this, the loss of our neighbor's livelihood in exchange for paying a few percent less on what we buy.

Edited June 24, 2019 by pyrohornIII

[Fozzz 152]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The boomers normalized greed as a virtue.  That might have been by design from the corporate overlords of their time peddling excess and consumerism as a national pastime. 

lol no they didn't.  Our society is predicated upon accumulation.  It is structured around the concept of greed.  

Edited June 24, 2019 by Fozzz

[Captainant 27826]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Hmmmm. That seems to suggest political alignment among an entire generation. Does that seem likely to you?

On an individual basis, not at all. Generally speaking, boomers have been the ones pushing reaganomics and the Gordon Gekko "greed is good" mentality that has guided economic and social policy since the 80s. Boomers are the biggest and loudest single group in trump's base.

It's not that I expect you individually as a boomer to hold certain opinions, but if I were to get 20 boomers in a room together discussing policy it'd sound pretty similar to fox news.

[DaysOff 7976]

goddamn i love this country

They were told to arrive early if they wanted to see a doctor, so Lisa and Stevie Crider left their apartment in rural Tennessee almost 24 hours before the temporary medical clinic was scheduled to open. They packed a plastic bag with what had become their daily essentials after 21 years of marriage: An ice pack for his recurring chest pain. Tylenol for her swollen feet. Peroxide for the abscess in his mouth. Gatorade for her low blood sugar and chronic dehydration.
They took a bus into the center of Cleveland, Tenn., a manufacturing town of 42,000, and slept for a few hours at a budget motel. Then they awoke in the middle of the night and walked toward the first-come, first-served clinic, bringing along a referral from a social worker for what they hoped would be their first doctor’s checkup in more than four years.
“Urgent needs from head to toe,” the social worker had written. “Lacking primary care and basic medication. They have fallen into the gap.”

 
I saw Northern Exposure and Doc Hollywood. Don't new MDs go into the wilderness to have student loans wiped clean anymore?

[Anastasis 23491]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The boomers normalized greed as a virtue.  That might have been by design from the corporate overlords of their time peddling excess and consumerism as a national pastime. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19227]

29 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I think stuff like this might have something to do with the suicide spike among older people in rural communities.

 

 

Free markets will solve it.  Just you wait.

[Fozzz 152]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Free markets will solve it.  Just you wait.

I think the market solution is mass suicide.

[Fudge Nuggets 19227]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

I think the market solution is mass suicide.

See, I told you.

[bad_teammate 13225]

23 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The boomers normalized greed as a virtue. 

History? Who fucking needs it.

 

[GSU&UT 1798]

26 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think it's less of a "boomers are extracting wealth from the younger generations" and moreso that "boomers have advocated for and implemented policies that have made equality and opportunity measurably worse".

Bingo bango bongo. Don't lecture younger people when the overwhelming majority of you (at least the white boomers who complain the most) voted for Reaganomics, gutting unions, ignoring or outright denying climate change, etc.

[bad_teammate 13225]

Gen X gets WAY too much coddling in these discussions. There's a reason we're looking to the Millenials and the Zoomers to save us and we don't even bother asking Gen X. We know they're just as shit as the Boomers.

[RomaVicta 30031]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

The irony of boomers lecturing millennials about entitlement and not being pussy crybabies is rich.

 

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

...and some Boomers, I assume, are good people.

 

1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

I'd like to think I am, at least in some areas.  Surely I recognize where I have lacked though.  

Outside of conversations like this, I never think of myself in generational terms. I'm hesitant to speak of others in such a way as well.

I've recently said that I miss the smaller, two story town that Austin used to be. Things change, though. I think I like what the millennials and Gen Xers are doing to keep the place unique. 

I will repeat something I said a while back on this subject. It's really silly to think that any generation received an ideal world and somehow messed it up.

You can look at the 60s as an ideal time when America controlled a huge part of the world market and money was to be had. The living standard rocketed. Technology boomed.

You can also look at the 60s as America tearing itself to pieces with racial strife, a stupid war, assassinations, and domestic terrorism. Oh, and the threat of nuclear war which was an unmatched constant threat until we started seeing what we're doing to the atmosphere. Also, you may want to take a look at just how dysfunctional the nuclear family was in those days. The WWII generation was reinventing their world and figuring it out as they went along. 

I concede that, being a white man of my age and not of a noble family, I was born into the best deal the world has ever seen. My age (and probably knees) kept me off the battlefield. I had a safety net. Work has been generally easy to find. Nobody oppresses me.

But I don't feel any natural kinship with people of generally the same description. 

We're all so different.

Edited June 24, 2019 by RomaVicta

[Huckleberry 33114]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Cause I've seen it first hand. (Some) Millenials  (I've encountered do have an entitled sense of self and worth. I've seen it in the work place first hand. I also recognize they've had a more competitive academic life than folks growing up as boomers had.

Amazing! A portion of them have an entitled sense of self and worth?!? Tell me more about how they're exactly the same as every other generation. 

[hpslugga 4062]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No they don’t. They are the largest generation in American history and got absolutely boned in every measurable economic indicator.

That’s the direction I was hoping this convo would head. When you look at empirical data and demonstrable reality, even if this general perception of the millennials being entitled were correct, it’s important to understand 

1) What is it they actually feel entitled to?

2) How are they expressing this entitlement?

It’d be one thing if they were making $200k per year demanding $500k per year...but that’s not what’s happening.

Their wages are utter shit, a lot of the ones who graduated college are being strangled by student debt that will never be fully repaid in their lifetime, shit is getting more expensive, the planet is being destroyed, etc. Did these issues face boomers when they were 21-37 years old? No. When they were that age, they were well on their way to taking over a planet that was handed to them on a silver platter.

Quote

They are the -first- generation to lose jobs, homes, and be denied the opportunity to accrue wealth to the benefit of their own parents. Why shouldn’t they promote themselves? Nobody else will.  

Nobody else will because that would require an admission of guilt. Humans aren’t particularly good about that in general, but boomers? Fucking forget it.

Quote

They’ve made more sacrifices for their parents mistakes than any generation since the people who fought World War II, and if this country can ever be made great again it will be them and Gen Z who save it, by remaking it in their own image.

Could not have said it better.

[RomaVicta 30031]

16 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Don't lecture younger people when the overwhelming majority of you (at least the white boomers who complain the most) voted for Reaganomics, gutting unions, ignoring or outright denying climate change, etc.

Is there evidence of this? Overwhelming majority? I'm really interested to know the answer.

Reagan got quite a grip on the young in the 1980s. I think UT voted majority GOP back then. That's post baby boom.

We've all been speaking anecdotally, but do you have something to prove what you say?

I know that the white males favor Trump. I know a lot of boomers do. I don't know that it's the overwhelming majority you claim. Do boomer females balance it out?

[Fozzz 152]

The boomers came to power during the period when post-war Keynesianism died and was replaced by neoliberalism, but that wasn't the result of some psychological issues peculiar to their age cohort.  Instead, that transition came about due to the successive oil shocks in the 70s accompanied by the overheating of the economy caused by the Vietnam war.  Neoliberalism was seen as the way to escape these crises.  

[BradInATX 9208]

50 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

Bingo.  They've been taught forever to live the American dream and to live it accordingly.  The American dream was corrupted by those corporate overlords you speak of.  The same overlords who killed the dream for many small business owners, be they dry goods, hardware, pharmacies, cafes, etc. 

And we as a society have been taught to accept this, the loss of our neighbor's livelihood in exchange for paying a few percent less on what we buy.

But Boomers are the people that continued to vote in politicians who enabled those corporate overlords. They are the greedy CEOs, they are the corrupt politicians. They still hold the majority of power in this country despite being well past their primes. They are the generation who embraced and worshipped greed and allowed it to go completely unchecked. They are the ones who somehow believe that everyone else is lazy and entitled despite their generation being handed numerous advantages that other generations never even sniffed. As individuals, there are plenty of really great people amongst the Baby Boomers. But as a general bloc, fuck them.

The millennials are tasked with fixing an absolute shit sandwich that the boomers handed to them. And they probably will, much like the Silent generation created a better world for their asshole Boomer children.

Edited June 24, 2019 by BradInATX

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

Everyone is an asshole except for me. And maybe you.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13588]

1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

I think stuff like this might have something to do with the suicide spike among older people in rural communities.

 

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/16/733146089/a-muslim-in-rural-white-minnesota-on-how-to-love-thy-neighbor

[Incredulity 11683]

7 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

 

Their wages are utter shit, a lot of the ones who graduated college are being strangled by student debt that will never be fully repaid in their lifetime, shit is getting more expensive, the planet is being destroyed, etc. Did these issues face boomers when they were 21-37 years old? No. When they were that age, they were well on their way to taking over a planet that was handed to them on a silver platter.

 

Do some reading on Stagflation, Price Controls, Oil Embargo, Malaise, Cuyahoga River catching on fire, Three Mile Island, Watts Riots...

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Everyone is an asshole except for me. And maybe you.

I'm definitely an asshole. Most of Gen X is. I'm glad the millennials are up to bat and not us. None of us give a shit.

Edited June 24, 2019 by BradInATX