Interesting angle: cali to pay college players

[Machinator 32,102]

 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

36 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Could be some interesting locker room dynamics if there are guys making 6 figures vs guys on meal plans. 

If that's going to be an issue, it's probably already an issue. Head coaches already have to manage how stars are treated versus how the "all you others" are treated. Healthy locker rooms have that under control, unhealthy ones don't/won't. 

[ChickenSandwich 9,918]

Probably not the same if your 98 accord is parked next to the star RBs Lambo in the school parking lot. 
 

or your condo at the W vs Jester etc etc. 

it’s going to be a bit more extreme 

[Gene Parmesan 4,062]

Okay, so what?  Do college age kids think that everyone in the world makes the same amount of money?  Is it an interesting dynamic in any other workplace in America that the workers park their POS cars next to a lot nicer cars?

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

25 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Probably not the same if your 98 accord is parked next to the star RBs Lambo in the school parking lot. 
 

or your condo at the W vs Jester etc etc. 

it’s going to be a bit more extreme 

But it's the same principle. Head coaches already have to manage rosters of athletes who win disproportionate spoils from their abilities. The only difference in your scenario is that no one has to sit Cam Newton down and say "look, you need to be discrete about your spending" anymore when it comes from Yella Fella TV commercials instead of the Yella Fella's bagman.

I guarantee, no walk-on fifth string linebacker at Auburn in 2010 was unaware of Newton being on the take. You're basically saying you think that kind of awareness would turn into unmanageable resentment if Newton didn't have to hide the money he was getting. I don't really buy that. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[Huckleberry 34,404]

32 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Probably not the same if your 98 accord is parked next to the star RBs Lambo in the school parking lot. 
 

or your condo at the W vs Jester etc etc. 

it’s going to be a bit more extreme 

This is why there are not good professional teams. For example, you never see a guy making minimum salary or close to it play really well for the Patriots because they're always mad that Tom Brady has more money than they do.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Kermit 3,162]

52 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Probably not the same if your 98 accord is parked next to the star RBs Lambo in the school parking lot. 
 

or your condo at the W vs Jester etc etc. 

it’s going to be a bit more extreme 

Absolutely none of their teammates will care. Unless they pull up in a limo, because that shit is still brought up to this day.

[bschoolprof 6,335]

So if these endorsement deals turn into a compensation mechanism to attract and retain top athletes at a particular school (which of course they will), do we then need some kind of salary cap like have in most pro sports to encourage competitive balance?

[Magus Ossis 2,996]

Pro sports have no endorsement cap

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

4 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

Pro sports have no endorsement cap

True, but in pro sports, endorsements aren't used as a full substitute for salary the way they could or will be in college athletics.

[Magus Ossis 2,996]

In some sports, they are essentially the entire earnings of the athletes. Additionally, teams in large/wealthy markets have players who are better set to make more money on the side. It is a known inequality in pro sports that has not ruined the idea of pro sports. And it would be virtually impossible to cap. You’d be back to restricting someone’s ability to profit from his likeness, just with a hypocritical half-way standard rather than completely.

[WhatTheBuck 28,904]

3 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

So if these endorsement deals turn into a compensation mechanism to attract and retain top athletes at a particular school (which of course they will), do we then need some kind of salary cap like have in most pro sports to encourage competitive balance?

A lot of the money that gets paid to a top prospect to sign with a particular school will probably be under the table anyway for tax purposes. It will just be easier to hide. 

And this will be more about pay-to-sign than pay-to-play.

[ousux 5,635]

Part of me says "about time", another part of me just knows this will fundamentally change CFB as we know it, and not in a good way. NFL Lite is not something I'm looking forward to tbh.

[TXpride 605]

I'm for this in principle, but what's to stop Phil Knight from offering every top recruit a Nike deal if they sign with Oregon?

[Gene Parmesan 4,062]

Just now, TXpride said:

I'm for this in principle, but what's to stop Phil Knight from offering every top recruit a Nike deal if they sign with Oregon?

Scholarship limits

[Machinator 32,102]

4 minutes ago, TXpride said:

I'm for this in principle, but what's to stop Phil Knight from offering every top recruit a Nike deal if they sign with Oregon?

 

[Loco 3,754]

Just now, Machinator said:

 

So what about just 10 5 stars???

[TXpride 605]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

Phil's getting up there in age, and he already has more money than he could ever spend. I could see him saying fuck it and going all in.

[WhatTheBuck 28,904]

15 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Scholarship limits

That prevents signing all the top recruits, not offering them. And you're assuming that there would be more than 25 offers in any given class. I doubt that would be the case. 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

1 hour ago, Magus Ossis said:

In some sports, they are essentially the entire earnings of the athletes.

That is a function of market forces in those sports, not an outright prohibition of direct compensation. It's not the same thing.

[WhatTheBuck 28,904]

What's to stop ESPN from signing players from its favored teams and conference(s), and conference network(s), and airing slick, professionally shot ESPN promos featuring them during college football broadcasts?

Companies that are in the business of broadcasting college sports should not be allowed to engage in business with college athletes. I think that would be a clear conflict of interest. I don't know if that's been addressed in any of the legislation. 

[Gene Parmesan 4,062]

They wouldn't do that because they know it's the name on the front that makes the money.

[Valmy77 13,567]

34 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Scholarship limits

Hell if you pay enough cash some 5 stars might be willing to walk on.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

47 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Companies that are in the business of broadcasting college sports should not be allowed to engage in business with college athletes. I think that would be a clear conflict of interest.

That is a very interesting point I have not seen raised elsewhere yet. 

What other conflicts of interest are there? 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

50 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Hell if you pay enough cash some 5 stars might be willing to walk on.

Interesting thought. "We'll pay you $250,000 a year plus the full cost of attendance-- tuition, room, board-- if you come play for OU as a walk-on, and endorse Big Red Motors"

[DonnyKerabatsos 86]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What's to stop ESPN from signing players from its favored teams and conference(s), and conference network(s), and airing slick, professionally shot ESPN promos featuring them during college football broadcasts?

Companies that are in the business of broadcasting college sports should not be allowed to engage in business with college athletes. I think that would be a clear conflict of interest. I don't know if that's been addressed in any of the legislation. 

ESPN is too diluted.

 

NBC and Notre Dame though could get interesting

[Magus Ossis 2,996]

The roster size shouldn’t be too tricky to regulate. It just wouldn’t be done with quite so much emphasis on scholarships.

[JBJ 3,780]

This isn't going to be as wild, wild west as everyone hopes/dreads.

[Poolflood 845]

4 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Scholarship limits

This would no longer apply.   Couple pages back someone asked if a 5star walk on couldn't be compensated for his likeness etc that's covers all expenses plus $$.  Why not?  USC is full but bru wants back in.  Coach calls booster up.... all bets off.

[Poolflood 845]

3 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Interesting thought. "We'll pay you $250,000 a year plus the full cost of attendance-- tuition, room, board-- if you come play for OU as a walk-on, and endorse Big Red Motors"

This plus a many other unintended consequences 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Poolflood

[Treefidy 1,504]

2 hours ago, JBJ said:

This isn't going to be as wild, wild west as everyone hopes/dreads.

I'm not sure I agree.  Its easy to underestimate how much money boosters would be willing to shell out to have a 5* "endorse" their company. And write it off...

The majority of boosters don't currently get involved because of legality.  Make it legal and (and an expense) and there will be a LOT of money ready to buy top prospects.  

[Beau Vine 55,816]

11 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Could be some interesting locker room dynamics if there are guys making 6 figures vs guys on meal plans. 
 

That inequality can be used as a jumping point to push to have the schools or NCAA pay the players directly. 
 

Auburn went undefeated with Cam Newton making 6 figures and they went undefeated.

[Beau Vine 55,816]

5 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What's to stop ESPN from signing players from its favored teams and conference(s), and conference network(s), and airing slick, professionally shot ESPN promos featuring them during college football broadcasts?

Companies that are in the business of broadcasting college sports should not be allowed to engage in business with college athletes. I think that would be a clear conflict of interest. I don't know if that's been addressed in any of the legislation. 

Cat's out of the bag already, bro.

[Beau Vine 55,816]

4 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

That is a very interesting point I have not seen raised elsewhere yet. 

What other conflicts of interest are there? 

 

Basically, any sort of conflict of interest can be found by looking at what coaches have always been allowed to do without any sort of objection.    

[Beau Vine 55,816]

7 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

So if these endorsement deals turn into a compensation mechanism to attract and retain top athletes at a particular school (which of course they will), do we then need some kind of salary cap like have in most pro sports to encourage competitive balance?

username does not check out.

[Beau Vine 55,816]

10 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Probably not the same if your 98 accord is parked next to the star RBs Lambo in the school parking lot. 
 

or your condo at the W vs Jester etc etc. 

it’s going to be a bit more extreme 

I fucking looooved having rich friends when I was in college.  Always loaned me their cool-ass cars, bought me meals when we went out, and let me drink their top-shelf liquor.  

[Beau Vine 55,816]

Wetzel:

Also, I have pretty much decided that anyone ever using the term "slippery slope" should be disregarded on whatever subject they're talking about:

Quote

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany spent part of Wednesday morning railing against California Senate Bill 206, which will make it illegal for the NCAA to punish college athletes who profit off their name, image and likeness.

Such a law, which was signed by Gov. Gavin Newsom on Monday, pains the sensibilities of college administrators such as Delany, who view all money coming into college athletics as something he, and people like him, should control.

“I think the law of unintended consequences and the law of slippery slope apply here,” said Delany.

He’s right that no one is certain how all of this might turn out, although slippery slope is an interesting phrase. Probably everything looks like a slippery slope when you’re standing on a house of cards built out of $100 bills. Delany, after all, recently had a bonus clause in his contract kick in that should exceed $20 million, which comes on top of his multimillion-dollar base salary.

If you are looking for a slippery slope it came whenever so-called amateur sports became such a big, unapologetic business that a guy like Jim Delany could reap $20 million bonuses. That was the real point of no return. That’s when SB 206, in some form, became reality.

College athletics is flat-footed and in a panic right now because guys such as Delany — not to mention fellow multi-millionaires Mark Emmert from the NCAA or Bob Bowlsby from the Big 12 or Larry Scott from the Pac-12 — did nothing to prevent, let alone plan for, this day.

View photos

 

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany speaks to media members during the Big Ten Football Media Days event on July 18, 2019 at the Hilton Chicago in Chicago, IL. (Getty)

More

As the drum beat for NIL rights has grown through the years via federal trials, public opinion and slow-moving legislatures, college sports’ leadership mostly just regurgitated whiny statements, obstruct progress and lawyer up. Well, that and negotiate new bonus deals for themselves (of course).

As the current gold rush of revenue has flooded into college athletics, they could have made moves toward the middle here. Better compensation for athletes. A limited NIL package. Some kind of revenue sharing. More scholarships for non-revenue sports.

Instead, they did almost nothing. They even had to get dragged, kicking and screaming, just to dole out a few hundred bucks in cost-of-living stipends. It wasn’t until 2015 that they’d even allowed that … and it came with similar predictions of doom.

So Delany et al failed miserably running the business they were paid handsomely to run, leaving Gavin Newsom, LeBron James and a lot of politicians to upend everything. What comes next is anyone’s guess, yet after two days of talking to administrators, coaches, agents and former players, here are a few perhaps unexpected possibilities.

Not all of them are bad. Many in college sports are optimistic that things will actually be better. Even coaches in Delany’s own league roll their eyes at his comments. A slippery slope … or progress?

1. Athletic departments are going to have to be organized (if it’s legal)

It makes sense to try to run this. Line up top boosters for endorsement and sponsorship opportunities to be handed down to the players. Scholarships could even come with guarantees of money for the players and add consistency to the recruiting process.

One athletic director noted that his school would need to set something up for non-glamour-position football players — “Everyone will want to sponsor the quarterback, but you need someone to block.”

Even mid-major basketball coaches figure that a decent recruit will be worth a $5,000-$10,000 promise. Since there is no business that would want to pay that much for an otherwise anonymous player, the school will have to facilitate by pooling money.

The rub? Title IX. Can a school round up boosters and businesses if 95-plus percent of the money goes to male athletes? No one is sure.

 

2. Certain mid-majors can benefit

The most valuable thing on the recruiting trail has been conference affiliation. Top players tend to sign with teams in the top leagues. Now? Perhaps not.

Are you better off being the starting quarterback at Boise State, where by definition you become the biggest star in a metro area that is approaching 1 million (let alone the entire state) or just another guy battling for a job at USC (where, in Los Angeles, no one will know your name). How about Oregon State?

In the past, USC won all those recruiting battles. Even Oregon State won most of them. Now? Places such as Boise State, or even lower-level programs in major conferences such as Iowa State or Indiana or Wake Forest are not broke. Maybe they can’t win every bidding war against the Clemsons and Alabamas, but they might be able to win more now than in the past.

“I think a school such as Boise can do really well,” one athletic director said. “When everyone was offering the same package -- a scholarship, room and board — then conference membership mattered. Now that they can, at times, offer more money, playing in the Mountain West rather than the Pac-12, it matters a lot less.”

3. Does Alabama really have all the money?

It has a lot. And no other professional teams in the state to divert attention. Ditto for Clemson and a lot of others. But these are still schools in small towns in comparatively poor Southern states. If the system shifts, making pure money matter more than things like stadium size and tradition, then what stops schools in wealthier areas such as the Northeast, Chicago or the Bay Area from making significant gains?

4. Here come the basketball schools

Some athletic programs are so big and have so many fans that they won’t lack for money to spread around. Ohio State. Texas. Michigan. Florida.

For a lot of others though, a priority is going to be paid to football, not basketball or other sports. For a school that cares mostly, or exclusively, about basketball, especially in a major city with lots of businesses and corporations, this could be a boon.

Villanova (and Philadelphia) has money. Georgetown (and Washington D.C.) has money. Memphis, for example, is going to spend top dollar on hoops, while local SEC rivals (Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas and Tennessee) will be focused on football.

Gonzaga, Wichita State and others will continue to be all basketball and offer mid-sized communities where the point guard can be the biggest star in the region. That can suddenly matter a lot more than what league someone is playing in.

View photos

 

Mar 21, 2019; Hartford, CT, USA; Villanova Wildcats head coach Jay Wright talks with his players during the second half of a game against the St. Mary's Gaels in the first round of the 2019 NCAA Tournament at XL Center. Mandatory Credit: Robert Deutsch-USA TODAY Sports

More

5. Ditto for other sports

Being the big man (or woman) on campus could now prove quite lucrative. If you are a hockey recruit, do you choose Ohio State (where they would be well down the priority list) or Minnesota Duluth (where you are the top dog)?

A school such as Louisiana Tech, with a women’s basketball tradition, might focus on that and return to prominence. Duke has a lot of players to pay before they get to lacrosse. Johns Hopkins doesn’t. Schools that focus on being a power in just one or a couple of sports might prosper.

6. Good for the good guys

As one of Delany’s Big Ten basketball coaches said on Wednesday, “At least now I’ll know what I am fighting against.” Through the years, too many top recruits had just coincidentally go to Nike- and Adidas-favored schools in the ACC, Big 12 and SEC.

There a lot of ex-coaches who either wouldn’t cheat, or couldn’t figure out how to do it right. This is especially true in basketball, where one or two players a year can change everything. Now they could. Legally. If all things are equal — i.e. your boosters can come up with $250,000 to match what used to be Nike or Adidas’ under-the-table bid — well, maybe the recruiting balance changes.

7. Transfer portal could be a mess

An under-recruited player has a big-time season, especially at a mid major, and suddenly it’s open bidding. It’s not just a change of scenery, playing time or a bigger stage that can be offered. It’s money. Maybe a lot of it. Each year NFL teams wildly overspend in free agency. Don’t expect better restraint at the college level.

8. Good players may stay in school longer

Finances should no longer be a reason for a borderline professional player to leave school early. The top picks will still go, of course. But that possible second-rounder in basketball would have a guaranteed way to make a decent chunk of change by staying on campus rather than hoping to make an NBA roster. Same with football. This is good for the kids and the game.

9. Venmo/GoFundMe

Not everyone is going to get a deal. But every player should set up an account in case they are thrust into unexpected stardom. The anonymous special teamer who blocks a critical punt or a backup point guard that hits a game-winning free throw? Drunk alumni might fill up his GoFundMe in celebration. Same for the wrestler who wins a national title or the cross country runner who ends up an All-American.

As much as the new era is about big donors and big money, the biggest contribution might come from small donors.

That is what Jim Delany calls a slippery slope because you never know, maybe one of them makes $20 million.

 

[Beau Vine 55,816]

48 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Auburn went undefeated with Cam Newton making 6 figures and they went undefeated.

They also lost zero games!

[Treefidy 1,504]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

They also lost zero games!

Ahh, but did they win every game that season?  That's the real question. 

[Beau Vine 55,816]

6 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

Ahh, but did they win every game that season?  That's the real question. 

I read somewhere that they went undefeated.  

[Hook1997 5,486]

11 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

No, No, No, No!  Don’t ruin college football like that, one and done is bad enough in basketball.

[Machinator 32,102]

20 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

No, No, No, No!  Don’t ruin college football like that, one and done is bad enough in basketball.

Going pro straight out of HS isn't one-and-done.

[Hook1997 5,486]

11 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Going pro straight out of HS isn't one-and-done.

Ahh if you can go straight out of high school then most likely you can leave after one year which would happen in football more often then going straight out of high school, NFL wise.  Read into other effects of doing something like that a bit.....

Edited October 3, 2019 by Hook1997

[WhatTheBuck 28,904]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Cat's out of the bag already, bro.

Nick Saban and Mack Brown aren't college athletes, bro. But you can see where this is obviously headed. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,462]

12 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Probably not the same if your 98 accord is parked next to the star RBs Lambo in the school parking lot. 
 

or your condo at the W vs Jester etc etc. 

it’s going to be a bit more extreme 

Somebody apparently hasn't seen athletes' cars on a college campus

[Beau Vine 55,816]

34 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nick Saban and Mack Brown aren't college athletes, bro. But you can see where this is obviously headed. 

Thank your for your thoughtful and thorough rebuttal.  

[Catdaddyhorn 3,462]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nick Saban and Mack Brown aren't college athletes, bro. But you can see where this is obviously headed. 

But that's when the cat got out the bag.  When the juxtaposition of coaches and literally every person associated with college football and basketball (be it coaches, media,  administrators,  et al) making obscene amounts of money next to athletes who would get suspended a third to half of a season for selling a jersey for $100 bucks became too much to stomach, people decided that the cat needed to get the fuck out the bag.  This needless veneration for archaic orthodoxy just because some NCAA administrator decided 70 years ago that he didn't want to pay workmans comp benefits to a widow of a football player who died has reached its time to end. 

Literally the only reason anyone defends it is because that's the way its always been done.  If we started from scratch today nobody would even attempt to set up a system where players would be totally restricted in this manner.  It's totally fucking stupid.  Nobody even mentions the fact that the only Male athletes who receive full scholarships are football and basketball players.  Other male athletes are either forced to get their parents to makeup their financial obligations or take on loans or grants because they can't even utilize their God given talents to find some way to make money to fulfill their remaining financial needs.  You telling me there isn't an economic demand  for a college baseball or tennis player's individual instruction? The whole entire setup of limitations on these athletes is bizarre as fuck. 

Run on sentences galore for yo ass.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Catdaddyhorn

[CB'sGotMeLit 131]

Look - we all know the system is bullshit, but the answers suck too.  This is a booster and bag man paradise, it will truly be the Wild West.  It's sad these kids lose money while others make millions, but I don't know the answer and neither do they.  It's a no win for amateur collegiate sports.  E.G. - I'm an Alabama fan with a car dealership - you don't think I'm not going to offer a 5 star recruit a 6 figure, multi year deal?  You don't think other bag men will chip in to alleviate the costs?  It's a no win, and will truly separate 10 to 15 teams from the rest of everyone; more specifically, 6-7 teams will dominate.  That's not even including what's going to happen with name sports brand and what basketball turned into.  On top of that, these kids will need agents now for commercial prospects - introducing the agents to collegiate sports - ask the NBA how that worked. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by CB'sGotMeLit
I suck at typing sometimes

[Beau Vine 55,816]

7 hours ago, CB'sGotMeLit said:

It's a no win, and will truly separate 10 to 15 teams from the rest of everyone; more specifically, 6-7 teams will dominate.

You write irony really well -- even better than Hank Scorpio.

[Beau Vine 55,816]

9 hours ago, CB'sGotMeLit said:

  It's a no win for amateur collegiate sports. 

I'm not sure why you think there should be a "win" situation for "amateur collegiate sports," especially when it's a multi-billion dollar industry. 

Regardless, the International Olympic Committee recognized that they had the same problem, and now the Olympics are more popular than they were when they were playing the amateur charade.  The AAU used to control amateur track and field with an iron fist (like the NCAA does); look up their history. 

At some point the money and the hypocrisy becomes so massive that it's not worth saving, and the NCAA is actually well past that point.  It's also obvious that they are unwilling to fix their own problems by themselves, which is why the states are now getting involved.