so, Jeffrey Epstein

[TexEx15 17914]

6 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Bill doing all those things while being married is fucking truly deplorable.  I am not overly religious, things happen and if consenting adults want to do what they want to do more power to them.  
 

The ongoing multiple repeated affairs are so far beyond disrespectful they are actually contemptuous for Hillary(who I am NO fan of).  Then they trot out the, “love you first, last and most” bullshit.   Zero respect for anyone who would do that to their wife.  Yes, that applies to Trump too.

Honest question. Will you vote for Trump if he is the Republican nominee?

[TeeDubya 3362]

Hey @Francisco 2.0, you got a regular Epstein forecast up there Sunday and Monday....  (sliding into the teens).

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

On 1/4/2024 at 10:06 PM, Brian Fantana said:

It's not any better than rape, in my opinion. It's at the very least highly coercive. How do you say no to the most powerful man in the world in that position, in that age?

Maybe don’t start by flirting with him and wearing clothes to catch his eye when you know you’re going to see him. Monica wasn’t an innocent victim in her relationship with Bill. She was a willing participant. She had a crush on him and acted on it, against the advice of at least one friend and confidant. (Not Linda Tripp, who was no friend.)  She was an adult and responsible for actively encouraging the relationship. What exactly did she think was going to happen if/when news of her affair with the most powerful man in the world got out, especially when she preserved evidence that his political enemies could use against him?

Enemies who by the way included Baylor rape cover-upper Ken Starr along with accused sex offender and lying, crying, whiny little bitch Brett Kavanaugh. Their commission was formed to investigate Bill and Hillary’s financial dealings but when they failed to find any wrongdoing there, they launched their witch hunt investigating anything and everything, not turning up anything substantial but generating “scandals” that played a major role in the ongoing character assassination of the Clintons, the effects of which are still being felt today. Finally they caught Bill lying about getting a blowjob and impeached him for it. You think any of them gave a fuck about Monica? Hell no. They used her for their own political ends along with the conniving Tripp. They deserve their share of the blame for what Monica got herself into as much as she and Bill do.

As long as we’re looking at history through the lens of SNL, let’s not forget this classic:

 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:03 PM, Brisketexan said:

CSB: many many moons ago (like, back when Clinton was president), I was privy to a conversation between two women who were staunch Republicans.  One of them was relating to the other a story of meeting Bill at some event or another.  Her message was to the effect of "You know I don't care for the man at all, and would never vote for him.  But his charm and charisma were stunning.  I hate him....and within 10 seconds of meeting and talking with him, I was ready to take off my pants for him."

As guys, we all know what "it" is.  I don't know how you get "it," I think you're born with it.  Maybe you develop it.  Whatever the case, Bill had "it."  And the problem with having "it" is that you just aren't used to being in a world where either a woman DOESN'T want to go to bed with you, or a world in which you SHOULDN'T go to bed with every willing woman. 

I had a buddy like that in college.  Average looking, kinda goofy dude with low life ambition.  And he could walk into any bar, pick out any girl, and take her home that night.  It was jaw-dropping to watch.  My now-wife saw it happen multiple times, and commented how she just didn't get it -- he wasn't super handsome or anything like that.  He just had the ways of the Force or some shit, some "these are not the droids you're looking for" ability.  Bill had that.

Also, as she's matured, and developed a quick wit and great sense of humor, Monica is a catch.  She's awesome.

I’ve heard Bill’s political opponents, straight men, talk about his charm. Nothing sexual about it. Just that when he talks to you he’d make you feel like you were the only other person in the room. You had his complete attention. They were adversaries politically but they acknowledged how charismatic he was. 

[Red Five 41596]

17 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I’ve heard Bill’s political opponents, straight men, talk about his charm. Nothing sexual about it. Just that when he talks to you he’d make you feel like you were the only other person in the room. You had his complete attention. They were adversaries politically but they acknowledged how charismatic he was. 

Mack Brown had that. I only met him once but it was the same (neat) deal. 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

On 1/5/2024 at 4:03 PM, DDD Dad said:

She's not "guilty" of anything.  She was taken advantage of, regardless of any attraction she might have had for him.  I was with you when you said,  "What he did with Monica was wrong."  You lost me, and your continued posting suggesting that I'm somehow wrongly inferring that you (inadvertently or more likely subconsciously) minimized that wrongfulness when you immediately said, "BUT,...she persisted in wanting to have sex of some sort with him."

Written without rancor.

Oh bullshit. If you flirt with and entice a married man, you’re not a victim when you’re on your knees willingly polishing his knob. I don’t care what the “power differential” was, one that exists in a million affairs going on every day. The fact is that a lot of men cheat on their wives with younger women. There’s a certain power dynamic to that which is on the pedestal, too. In the cases where the man leaves his wife and marries the young seductress, no one ever talks about how she was victimized and how he exploited his position of power over her. His ex-wife, her friends, and family, though,  might fairly and accurately call her a home-wrecker. 

You chase a married man, you’re no innocent. Period.

[DDD Dad 14571]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Oh bullshit. If you flirt with and entice a married man, you’re not a victim when you’re on your knees willingly polishing his knob. I don’t care what the “power differential” was, one that exists in a million affairs going on every day. The fact is that a lot of men cheat on their wives with younger women. There’s a certain power dynamic to that which is on the pedestal, too. In the cases where the man leaves his wife and marries the young seductress, no one ever talks about how she was victimized and how he exploited his position of power over her. His ex-wife, her friends, and family, though,  might fairly and accurately call her a home-wrecker. 

You chase a married man, you’re no innocent. Period.

WhattheBuck'd.

[mantis toboggan 850]

And look what she was wearing. Just asking for it. 

[RomaVicta 30501]

Fuck. I'm getting pulled back in.

She was not raped. She was not pressured. Clinton should have turned her back away from him.

[Gil Bang 26176]

 

[F250 29175]

On 1/5/2024 at 2:03 PM, Brisketexan said:

CSB: many many moons ago (like, back when Clinton was president), I was privy to a conversation between two women who were staunch Republicans.  One of them was relating to the other a story of meeting Bill at some event or another.  Her message was to the effect of "You know I don't care for the man at all, and would never vote for him.  But his charm and charisma were stunning.  I hate him....and within 10 seconds of meeting and talking with him, I was ready to take off my pants for him."

As guys, we all know what "it" is.  I don't know how you get "it," I think you're born with it.  Maybe you develop it.  Whatever the case, Bill had "it."  And the problem with having "it" is that you just aren't used to being in a world where either a woman DOESN'T want to go to bed with you, or a world in which you SHOULDN'T go to bed with every willing woman. 

I had a buddy like that in college.  Average looking, kinda goofy dude with low life ambition.  And he could walk into any bar, pick out any girl, and take her home that night.  It was jaw-dropping to watch.  My now-wife saw it happen multiple times, and commented how she just didn't get it -- he wasn't super handsome or anything like that.  He just had the ways of the Force or some shit, some "these are not the droids you're looking for" ability.  Bill had that.

Also, as she's matured, and developed a quick wit and great sense of humor, Monica is a catch.  She's awesome.

There is a term for "it."

Kavorka: The lure of the animal.

[Bullneck 19454]

18 minutes ago, F250 said:

There is a term for "it."

Kavorka: The lure of the animal.

[RomaVicta 30501]

10 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

 

 

Sex trafficker saved by poor judgment. Thank goodness Acosta was only responsible for that little thing.

On another issue unrelated to providing rape services to rich men, there's this:

Prison is prison. You're not free. You have little control over your own activities. You're shut off from casual contact with people you care about. That's enough for me. The availability of yoga, Pilates, and movies is merely humane as far as I'm concerned.

I believe the cruelty of our prisons breeds cruelty in inmates who will one day be free. I also simply oppose wanton cruelty.

The inclusion of these facts seems gratuitous in an outlet with the history of the AP. Keeping her by herself in a concrete room is something some Americans will casually call for without thinking about what this means. Yoga, Pilates, and movies can be available in all levels of security as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it would cut down on rape and violence.

Edited March 13 by RomaVicta

[Hate 20232]

Maybe if some of the people in prison had abstained from rape and violence when they were free they wouldn’t be subjected to the cruelty of our prisons. Fuck any violent offender. I don’t give a shit how cruel their prison is. 

[Ted Lange 16354]

Username checks out. 

[RomaVicta 30501]

6 minutes ago, Hate said:

Maybe if some of the people in prison had abstained from rape and violence when they were free they wouldn’t be subjected to the cruelty of our prisons. Fuck any violent offender. I don’t give a shit how cruel their prison is. 

Good for you. 

[safe sex 11914]

Jesus wept

[softlynow 1893]

7 hours ago, Hate said:

Maybe if some of the people in prison had abstained from rape and violence when they were free they wouldn’t be subjected to the cruelty of our prisons. Fuck any violent offender. I don’t give a shit how cruel their prison is. 

A whole bunch of violent offenders get something like 10-15 years prison and parole out in 5-7.5 years. I've pled guys down to as few as 2 years and had the "aggravated" tag dropped in the deal, meaning they were parole eligible in 6 months in Texas. You really like that we traumatize them and make them more likely to re-offend?

I'll grant that many would do it again even if rehabilitation is really attempted. However, there is a significant non-zero amount that would lean into the life course-correction and not hurt someone again. You are saying that other people getting hurt is fine because of your feels. You might want to reconsider.

[jimmyjazz 46976]

15 hours ago, softlynow said:

You are saying that other people getting hurt is fine because of your feels. You might want to reconsider.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen with @Hate.

[wildcat09 29557]

Isn't it pretty well established that our carceral system is the cruelest of any first world country and imprisons people the longest and also has the highest recidivism rates?

[RomaVicta 30501]

55 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Isn't it pretty well established that our carceral system is the cruelest of any first world country and imprisons people the longest and also has the highest recidivism rates?

It is our greatest national shame in two ways.

1. We knowingly permit it.

2. We think it's funny.

Cue @Brisketexan to remind us of our national brand.

[Hate 20232]

I just don’t have the tolerance for violence that some here seem to have. I’ll admit that my view may be skewed by the news reports of crimes that have multiple violent offenders as the perpetrator. I have absolutely no issue addressing some sort of prison reform to allow for non-violent offenders (read drug offenders) to not be imprisoned so we have more room to store the violent people. 

[RomaVicta 30501]

20 minutes ago, Hate said:

I just don’t have the tolerance for violence that some here seem to have. I’ll admit that my view may be skewed by the news reports of crimes that have multiple violent offenders as the perpetrator. I have absolutely no issue addressing some sort of prison reform to allow for non-violent offenders (read drug offenders) to not be imprisoned so we have more room to store the violent people. 

So rape, beatings, and gangs are ok for the non-violent?

[Hate 20232]

You mean outside the walls or inside? 

[cmontexas 3331]

Yoga is available anywhere in the world if you have about 6 or 7 feet of space 

[wildcat09 29557]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

I just don’t have the tolerance for violence that some here seem to have. I’ll admit that my view may be skewed by the news reports of crimes that have multiple violent offenders as the perpetrator. I have absolutely no issue addressing some sort of prison reform to allow for non-violent offenders (read drug offenders) to not be imprisoned so we have more room to store the violent people. 

Oh fuck off, that's a bullshit mischaracterization of both your and our positions. You're clearly plenty tolerant of violence and even supportive of it against people whom you think deserve it. 

I'm personally not above the same emotional responses when I read a heinous story about some monster hurting people, particularly children. But I'm smart enough to comprehend arguments (and statistics and studies that support those arguments) that our violent prison system actually makes most offenders more violent and ultimately results in a more violent society than if we focused more on rehabilitation than punishment. Emotional reactions are not a good basis for sound policy.

[Hate 20232]

Thank you for your condescension. It’s always appreciated.

I guess it boils down to trusting rehabilitation efforts on someone that has proven to be violent previously. Admittedly, I don’t know anyone that has been to prison for a violent crime and been paroled, so I have no personal experience to base my feelings on. I’ll also admit to not having researched any studies on rehabilitation success for violent criminals. I’ll just say at the very least I skeptical. Now, back to Epstein Island.

[DDD Dad 14571]

@Hate

Edited March 14 by DDD Dad

[conVINCEd 21477]

I know one person who has been to prison for a violent crime.  It didn’t help him become a kinder, gentler person.

[wildcat09 29557]

19 minutes ago, Hate said:

Thank you for your condescension. It’s always appreciated.

I guess it boils down to trusting rehabilitation efforts on someone that has proven to be violent previously. Admittedly, I don’t know anyone that has been to prison for a violent crime and been paroled, so I have no personal experience to base my feelings on. I’ll also admit to not having researched any studies on rehabilitation success for violent criminals. I’ll just say at the very least I skeptical. Now, back to Epstein Island.

You imply that we're fine with violent criminals who hurt innocent people and then whine when called on it that I'm being condescending? Have you tried not being a fucking baby?

[Hate 20232]

Wouldn’t it be implied that if you are willing to grant freedoms to a violent criminal that you are more tolerant of that offender than someone unwilling to grant that freedom? 
 

I’ve already said I support prison reform. I’ve been on record on this site and Shaggy that if I were king, all prison sentences for drug possession would immediately be commuted and records expunged. I stated I’m skeptical that rehab would really work for the truly violent. 
 
 
 

[Smax 3800]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Thank you for your condescension. It’s always appreciated.

I guess it boils down to trusting rehabilitation efforts on someone that has proven to be violent previously. Admittedly, I don’t know anyone that has been to prison for a violent crime and been paroled, so I have no personal experience to base my feelings on. I’ll also admit to not having researched any studies on rehabilitation success for violent criminals. I’ll just say at the very least I skeptical. Now, back to Epstein Island.

 

 

We've been in the business of punishment and harsh sentencing as a deterrent since forever,  and I think the US has more people incarcerated then any other nation. 

our system doesn't seem to be working if you ask me, I don't know what the answer is, but the something needs to change

[jimmyjazz 46976]

Our system got quite demonstrably worse once we went to a largely for-profit model that encouraged a surge in incarceration, largely for non-violent offenses.

[softlynow 1893]

25 minutes ago, Hate said:

Wouldn’t it be implied that if you are willing to grant freedoms to a violent criminal that you are more tolerant of that offender than someone unwilling to grant that freedom? 

No. I'll grant that a person who is uninformed or unwilling to consider the problems being addressed could infer it. But that's their problem.

My sympathies aren't with the animal going into prison, but with the people harmed when we choose to harden that animal rather than tame it. That isn't tolerance, it's learning from the copius amounts of data we have.

[atomheartbevo 90548]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

I know one person who has been to prison for a violent crime.  It didn’t help him become a kinder, gentler person.

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

I know one person who has been to prison for a violent crime.  It didn’t help him become a kinder, gentler person.

It seems you do possess the anecdotal experience to base your feelings on. That is important. Is it possible that person deserved to be raped and beaten in prison as punishment for said crimes? Obviously in addition to the confinement punishment.

[conVINCEd 21477]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

It seems you do possess the anecdotal experience to base your feelings on. That is important. Is it possible that person deserved to be raped and beaten in prison as punishment for said crimes? Obviously in addition to the confinement punishment.

No,  but he probably was, which is probably why he got more violent.  Just angry at the world.  Drugs serve as an accelerant.  It’s my cousin and I haven’t seen him in a few years so I assume he’s back in jail, and a quick TDCJ inmate search informs me that he is back in jail.

[RomaVicta 30501]

5 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Yoga is available anywhere in the world if you have about 6 or 7 feet of space 

Six or seven feet of space? That's like a fucking ranch! We're coddling these criminals!

[RomaVicta 30501]

2 hours ago, Hate said:

Wouldn’t it be implied that if you are willing to grant freedoms to a violent criminal that you are more tolerant of that offender than someone unwilling to grant that freedom? 
 

I’ve already said I support prison reform. I’ve been on record on this site and Shaggy that if I were king, all prison sentences for drug possession would immediately be commuted and records expunged. I stated I’m skeptical that rehab would really work for the truly violent. 
 
 
 

Wanting to make prisoners safe(r) from rape and brutalization is hardly the same thing as rehabilitation programs. Baby steps. I'll condescendingly grant that you're not being intentionally dishonest.

[mchookem 16729]

6 hours ago, Hate said:

I just don’t have the tolerance for violence that some here seem to have. 

 

On 3/13/2024 at 7:26 AM, Hate said:

Fuck any violent offender. I don’t give a shit how cruel their prison is. 

[Hate 20232]

Let me restate…violence against non violent offenders. 

[softlynow 1893]

You didn’t need to clarify anything. You are in favor of violence if it sates your lust for it. We get it. You might want to figure out why you have that desire. It’s not healthy. Put another way, your position tells us much about you and fails to convey a coherent policy regime w/r/t criminal justice.

We aren’t where we are because the system is designed to rape and otherwise brutalize inmates. We are here because it’s cheaper to look the other way when it happens. If we really thought pound-me-in-the-ass was the right policy, victims and victim groups would be allowed to do the brutalizing. Rationalizing the existence of a policy out of the mere by-product of a penny-wise/pound foolish scheme is telling on yourself.

[RomaVicta 30501]

I think it's mostly posturing. Makes a guy feel like a badass to say brutality leaves him unmoved.

[Bullneck 19454]

 

 

[CooterBrown 18272]

The media doesn’t care that Trump raped a 12 & 13 year old because have you heard, Biden is old!

[troph 25089]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

 

 

how this isn't front page news on every channel is beyond me.

[troph 25089]

our prison system and the inhumane treatment of the incarcerated is one of the worst aspects of our society. we aim to punish not to rehabilitate. it would be a major step forward if we did both, but we only punish. it's why the prison population only seems to increase. it's shameful.

[Bullneck 19454]

On 3/14/2024 at 9:57 AM, wildcat09 said:

Isn't it pretty well established that our carceral system is the cruelest of any first world country and imprisons people the longest and also has the highest recidivism rates?

 

[Biff Tannen 46061]

2 hours ago, Bullneck said:

 

 

According to the internet (I know), the plaintiffs here walked the story back later. Anyone know if that is actually true?

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

According to the internet (I know), the plaintiffs here walked the story back later. Anyone know if that is actually true?

Plaintiffs withdrew lawsuit after death threats