Vestiges of Volition Vexes Vaping Vicky

[Trey3216 15450]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/25/san-francisco-bans-e-cigarette-sales-becoming-the-first-city-to-do-so.html

 

San Francisco on Tuesday became the first city in the country to ban e-cigarettes after city officials approved an ordinance that prohibits selling nicotine pods or devices that haven’t been approved by the Food and Drug Administration.

City supervisors last week voted unanimously 11 to 0 in favor of the measure. San Francisco’s rules require two votes in order for an ordinance to be finalized.

 

“There is so much we don’t know about the health impacts of these products, but we do know that e-cigarette companies are targeting our kids in their advertising and getting them hooked on addictive nicotine products,” San Francisco mayor London Breed said in a statement.

“We need to take action to protect the health of San Francisco’s youth and prevent the next generation of San Franciscans from becoming addicted to these products.”

Federal regulators are trying to combat what they’re calling an “epidemic” of teen vaping while local governments pursue their own actions, including banning flavors like bubble gum and fruit punch. San Francisco outlawing e-cigarettes altogether marks a harsh rebuke of the industry, particularly market leader Juul, which is headquartered in the city.

The company said it shares city officials’ goal “to keep tobacco and favor products out of the hands of anyone under 21,” “but the prohibition of vapor products for all adults in San Francisco will not effectively address underage use.” Juul says it already has the required signatures to take the ban to the ballot in November in hopes of overriding the ordinance.

In a statement on Tuesday, Juul said the ban would “drive former adult smokers who successfully switched to vapor products back to deadly cigarettes, deny the opportunity to switch for current adult smokers, and create a thriving black market instead of addressing the actual causes of underage access and use.” 

 

E-cigarettes are positioned as less harmful ways for smokers to get their nicotine fix than smoking cigarettes. However, these products appear to be incredibly popular among teenagers. Federal data published last fall showed e-cigarette use among high school students surged 78% in 2018, prompting the FDA to propose restricting where fruity flavors can be sold.

All e-cigarettes currently on the market will eventually need to undergo FDA review. The agency earlier this year also proposed moving up the deadline to 2021 from 2022, though a judge presiding over a lawsuit from public groups could force the FDA to start taking those applications sooner.

San Francisco’s ordinance bans any e-cigarette that hasn’t received FDA clearance, effectively banning all e-cigarettes since none have to do date. City officials also on Tuesday passed an ordinance prohibiting the sale, manufacturing and distribution of tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, on city property. San Francisco already prohibits tobacco companies from doing business on city property.

Juul and city officials have sparred over the e-cigarette giant’s presence in San Francisco. The city owns the land Juul operates its headquarters on, much to the dismay of some who want the city to kick the company out. Juul last week bought a building in downtown San Francisco, though it said it would continue to work out of the disputed space as well.

Juul spent $665,239 lobbying against the two ordinances in April and May, according to public records.

[Deej 77676]

The really should let people smoke in San Fransisco to kill their sense of smell.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22246]

So you can’t vape, but you can shit on the sidewalk

 

[RPM 26565]

I think SF has bigger problems to tackle than vaping.

[TwiceHorn 31995]

But who will think of the children?

[TwiceHorn 31995]

2 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

e-cigarette companies are targeting our kids in their advertising

As far as I can tell, this is bald-faced lie.  From the get-go, vape has come in silly candy flavors with silly candy names.  There was no advertising.  Grownups like that shit too.

I vaped for a while to quit dipping and it worked.

[Trey3216 15450]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

As far as I can tell, this is bald-faced lie.  From the get-go, vape has come in silly candy flavors with silly candy names.  There was no advertising.  Grownups like that shit too.

I vaped for a while to quit dipping and it worked.

Hey man, I just posted the article 

[bolverk 30245]

Just for clarification, SF has not banned regular ol' cancer sticks though, right?

[NeverMarryAStripper 22246]

They can’t do that because homeless people smoke those

[HornsOverIthaca 2339]

I wish there was a way to work Voltron into the title.

[SpiralOut 1954]

Yup.  I've been vaping since '07 when all you could get were those ridiculous "Blu" ecigs.  They always came in fruity, candy flavors.  That's a huge part of the appeal is that you aren't stuck with just tobacco/menthol flavors.

And if there was any serious negative health consequences to this shit I'd be dead 100x over already.  I've vaped essentially every day for the last 12 years.  And I'm one of those sub-ohm, run through a metric ton of juice type of assholes (though I keep it confined to my home so I'm not spewing clouds in people's faces).  No breathing problems.  No heart issues.  Haven't been to the doctor in that entire time except for ulcers which were caused by, funnily enough, OTC Ibuprofen. 

Government gonna government though. 

[TwiceHorn 31995]

22 minutes ago, SpiralOut said:

Yup.  I've been vaping since '07 when all you could get were those ridiculous "Blu" ecigs.  They always came in fruity, candy flavors.  That's a huge part of the appeal is that you aren't stuck with just tobacco/menthol flavors.

And if there was any serious negative health consequences to this shit I'd be dead 100x over already.  I've vaped essentially every day for the last 12 years.  And I'm one of those sub-ohm, run through a metric ton of juice type of assholes (though I keep it confined to my home so I'm not spewing clouds in people's faces).  No breathing problems.  No heart issues.  Haven't been to the doctor in that entire time except for ulcers which were caused by, funnily enough, OTC Ibuprofen. 

Government gonna government though. 

Way back when, I heard the head of the CDC Office on Smoking and Health say, yes, we don't know exactly what the effects of the various chemicals are, BUT, it would be nearly impossible for them to pose the risk to health that burning tobacco poses.  He also speculated that, if that were the case, the dangerous/poisonous chemicals would be fairly obvious in testing.  And the Royal College of Physicians agrees to the extent that it publicly advocates vaping as a smoking alternative.

[cmontexas 3331]

I smoked for 15 years. Bought a juul and quit immediately

[bolverk 30245]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Way back when, I heard the head of the CDC Office on Smoking and Health say, yes, we don't know exactly what the effects of the various chemicals are, BUT, it would be nearly impossible for them to pose the risk to health that burning tobacco poses.  He also speculated that, if that were the case, the dangerous/poisonous chemicals would be fairly obvious in testing.  And the Royal College of Physicians agrees to the extent that it publicly advocates vaping as a smoking alternative.

My doctor pretty much said the same and endorsed switching based on what he's seen with his brother. He stated that his unscientific guess was that it was 80-90% less damaging than cigarettes.

11 hours ago, cmontexas said:

I smoked for 15 years. Bought a juul and quit immediately

After years of struggling with quitting, having tried gum, patches, and even chantix, vaping was the only thing that finally got me off cancer sticks earlier this spring and I feel a shit ton better for it. I recommend the Smok Novo -- it's a great little device.

[Armybrat 41329]

11 hours ago, cmontexas said:

I smoked for 15 years. Bought a juul and quit immediately

I smoked Salems for 10 years, quit cold turkey in 1976, and gained 90 pounds by 1982.

[TwiceHorn 31995]

13 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Hey man, I just posted the article 

No, I know.  The Mayor is lying, and so is most of government about this.  There's also heavy reliance on the history of big tobacco hiding and lying to the public about dangers.  BUT, currently, vaping is not big tobacco.  Big tobacco is lurking in the background with some products here and there and is no doubt pulling some strings to their benefit.

I acknowledge that apparently there is quite a problem with kids vaping.  I submit, however, that those same kids that vape would be smoking cancer sticks if not for vape, plus maybe a few more because it's more pleasant than smoking.  There's just a certain percentage of kids that are going to experiment with nicotine, whether it be cigs, dip, or vape.  That is pretty much unavoidable.  

But the cheapest, easiest way to get the public politically outraged about something is to invoke the children.  Everyone immediately turns off their brain when that happens (assuming it was on and/or functional in the first place).

AFAIK, nicotine itself is not much more harmful that caffeine.  But, prior to vaping, the only delivery systems were pretty harmful.

[TwiceHorn 31995]

Also, ironically, when the FDA gets fully into this in a couple of years, the only entities that can pay for "certification" will be big tobacco and pharma.

So, by regulating it, you are actually delivering it in a tidy package with a bow to the most "evil" corporate entities in the US.

The FDA probably has the most unintended consequences and distorts huge markets more than any other single government entity in the US.  It's quite a conundrum, as I don't think anyone quibbles with its essential mission.

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

11 hours ago, cmontexas said:

I smoked for 15 years. Bought a juul and quit immediately

Yeah, same here. The juul works great for quitting smoking.  It feels close to a real smoke, but without the nasty smell, coughing, butts everywhere, etc.

 

E: speaking of the smell, man I can really tell when someone has been smoking now. I stank like that for 20ish years and didn't really know it. Ugh.

Edited June 26, 2019 by MadBurgerMaker

[bolverk 30245]

27 minutes ago, MadBurgerMaker said:

Yeah, same here. The juul works great for quitting smoking.  It feels close to a real smoke, but without the nasty smell, coughing, butts everywhere, etc.

 

E: speaking of the smell, man I can really tell when someone has been smoking now. I stank like that for 20ish years and didn't really know it. Ugh.

Should've worn deodorant, duh.

[Dennis Taylor 19293]

all those discarded Hep/ HIV/ Ebola infested needles are fine but damnit you better not vape up in here!

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

AFAIK, nicotine itself is not much more harmful that caffeine.  But, prior to vaping, the only delivery systems were pretty harmful.

Gum, patches, lozenges, etc. But those don't look like you are smoking the unthinkable. Tobacco. Now granted, kids are more likely to vape than chew the gum because it still has the "cool" factor that got a lot of kids (myself included) addicted to cigarettes. My high school aged nephews both vape nicotine because they say it calms their nerves. I laugh at that because they aren't in 'nam fighting Chuck, but whatever. It's kinda harmless compared to the shit I did at that age. And it might be completely harmless, who knows. 

[Pato del Muerto 53343]

Nicotine is highly, highly addictive and is also highly poisonous. 

Up to this point, we have consumed it in micro doses compared to say cocaine or heroin. Does that make it ok to consume?

I don’t know if big tobacco ever spiked their  cigs with extra nicotine or not, but might there be reason to restrict the potency of the vaping packs. 

I don’t know if there will ever be a market driven push to keep releasing higher concentration nicotine, but if there is be wary. 

[TwiceHorn 31995]

56 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Gum, patches, lozenges, etc. But those don't look like you are smoking the unthinkable. Tobacco. Now granted, kids are more likely to vape than chew the gum because it still has the "cool" factor that got a lot of kids (myself included) addicted to cigarettes. My high school aged nephews both vape nicotine because they say it calms their nerves. I laugh at that because they aren't in 'nam fighting Chuck, but whatever. It's kinda harmless compared to the shit I did at that age. And it might be completely harmless, who knows. 

I left those off because, as far as I know, they taste like shit, on purpose.

[Gene Parmesan 4062]

Smoking is still way more badass looking.  There is no way to vape without looking like a nancy boy.

[bolverk 30245]

3 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Smoking is still way more badass looking.  There is no way to vape without looking like a nancy boy.

Me and my douche kazoo take exception to that.

[DCA_HORN 725]

Nicotine is highly, highly addictive and is also highly poisonous. 
Up to this point, we have consumed it in micro doses compared to say cocaine or heroin. Does that make it ok to consume?
I don’t know if big tobacco ever spiked their  cigs with extra nicotine or not, but might there be reason to restrict the potency of the vaping packs. 
I don’t know if there will ever be a market driven push to keep releasing higher concentration nicotine, but if there is be wary. 

How is it poisonous?

[Pato del Muerto 53343]

3 minutes ago, DCA_HORN said:

41 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Nicotine is highly, highly addictive and is also highly poisonous. 
Up to this point, we have consumed it in micro doses compared to say cocaine or heroin. Does that make it ok to consume?
I don’t know if big tobacco ever spiked their  cigs with extra nicotine or not, but might there be reason to restrict the potency of the vaping packs. 
I don’t know if there will ever be a market driven push to keep releasing higher concentration nicotine, but if there is be wary. 

Read more  

How is it poisonous?

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/54115.html

 

[Gene Parmesan 4062]

11 minutes ago, DCA_HORN said:

49 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Nicotine is highly, highly addictive and is also highly poisonous. 
Up to this point, we have consumed it in micro doses compared to say cocaine or heroin. Does that make it ok to consume?
I don’t know if big tobacco ever spiked their  cigs with extra nicotine or not, but might there be reason to restrict the potency of the vaping packs. 
I don’t know if there will ever be a market driven push to keep releasing higher concentration nicotine, but if there is be wary. 

How is it poisonous?

How is anything poisonous?

[Sandman 3427]

1 hour ago, Dennis Taylor said:

all those discarded Hep/ HIV/ Ebola infested needles are fine but damnit you better not vape up in here!

"We're doing this to protect kids. Also, it's ok for your kids to see dudes walking down the street with their cocks flapping in the breeze."

[DCA_HORN 725]

How is anything poisonous?

Like anything is poisonous if you have too much of it.

No data on acute inhalation toxicity are available on which to base the IDLH for nicotine.

[Pato del Muerto 53343]

8 minutes ago, DCA_HORN said:

Like anything is poisonous if you have too much of it.

No data on acute inhalation toxicity are available on which to base the IDLH for nicotine.

If it’s toxic orally in small doses and it’s toxic through skin absorption in small doses, then it’s very likely toxic through inhalation in small doses. 

Since nobody seems to have been dying from nicotine poisoning from smoking cigarettes, whatever dose is given from them seems to be non lethal even if you smoke a hundred a day. 

I am just hypothesizing that since vaping is considered cleaner due to the lack of plant material and other material introduced by the tobacco companies during manufacturing, there might be some one upmanship between companies to pack more and more nicotine into a pack. And if so, that could get dangerous. Which is why FDA should be regulating the industry.