Jump to content

2020 Democratic Debates Watch Thread


bad_teammate

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

if warren comes at him with a "i've made a living taking on corrupt companies going bankrupt who lie and cheat and steal and try to con their way into explaining that everything is going great, so yeah, i think i can handle deadbeat don on this one.  i'm all set."  then i think she can set that narrative and 60% of america will have their minds made up.

he'll turn around and call her pocahontas, and the 39% of people who were already voting for him will hoot and holler.  told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

oh, and then pete will come on stage to ensure a live studio audience will witness the public execution of mike pence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

exactly

Liz: *rousing speech full of facts and pathos and reason and truth*

Trump: "Oh, look, the chief has issued a decree to her tribe. Loser." *pats open mouth with fingertips mocking a war cry*

*crowd goes fucking insane*

You would laugh. Admit it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Warren was good and stayed strong but didn't have any big moments to propel her higher.  Her "I do" moment was poised for greatness, but wasted when she didn't actually say what her plan was.  Overall I thought she had the most presidential demeanor on stage.   Booker and Castro sounded good and improved their standing.   Beto looked clueless at a few points; I think he's done.   Klobuchar is done.   Gabbard is robotic and has no chance.   Delaney had some OK moments and some moments where he belonged in a GOP primary, he has no shot.   Tim Ryan and his forgotten *cough*white*cough* man should GTFO.  Inslee had some OK moments but I've already forgotten him.   DeBlasio is a clown, just no. 

Doubtful Beto is done. That's by far the biggest stage he's ever been on and he finished in even your top half. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My hope is that someone as smart as Warren or Castro would be able clown the fuck out of Trump in a debate. If you hit him where it hurts ($$$) Trump will be put on tilt, have a total meltdown and turn into even more of a gibbering idiot than usual. Whoever the Dem candidate end up being needs to completely pants him on the national stage, and I don't think it would be that hard to do.


Before tonight, I thought only Warren could go toe-to-toe with Trump and just rip into him on how big of a fraud he is. I honestly think she would gas him up to to the point that he takes a menacing step towards her that effectively seals 2020 for the left. He kinda did that with Hilary so the precedent is there.

Not Biden, not Beto, not Pete, not Bernie. Maybe Booker and Kamala.

Some of it is lack of experience but some of it is maybe you’re born with it. Castro fucking had it.

If you think about it, Castro, with the exception of Biden, has spent the most time at the executive branch of the federal level of this field. 6 years. He clearly learned a thing or two from Obama’s fuckups.

Castro looked absolutely Presidential. I may be in love. Nothing Warren or Beto did soured me on them. People shat on Beto for apologizing for his views, he got hammered the most and did relatively the most.

I actually really appreciated De Blaiso, Amy, Inslee, Ryan too. They all had their moments. Tim from an from Ohio is real as fuck, I loved it. black, white, brown, we fucked the middle class. Period. If Bernie can consider himself a Dem, I have absolutely no problem with Amy and the Centrists being welcome to the party.

The no private insurance thing is terrible. Thats like one of the only things that makes people choose one job or the other. Denying private companies to provide private insurance to their employees IMO is like restricting who can get a fucking raise. Terrible.

$100/month and you can join Medicare. $300 for a family. Clear consistent pricing, subsidize the rest through some type of something, I dk.

I fully believe that 80% of our healthcare costs as a nation are attributable to like 10% of the population, preventative screenings should basically be walking level free (x times a year) for everyone, shit I might even be open to selling the data from those screenings (not attached to the name) to help offset costs.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't watch the debate, but I watched a couple of recaps. The private insurance question was rigged or misrepresented imho. It was made an either or proposition. You can have single coverage AND private insurance. Isn't that what they have in England? You have the option to go to a private hospital.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The next evolution of Democrat’s healthcare plan has usually been presented in the past as a public option system where you can have supplemental private insurance like in several European systems but everyone is also eligible for the govt insurance.  But recently Bernie, Warren and a couple of others have taken the position that Medicare 4 All means only Medicare with no private options.  It wasn’t a gotcha question, and Warren knew what she was doing answering the way she did. Having said that, I think immediately eliminating the ability to choose to have any private insurance, even as a supplement, is complete lunacy and the type of thing that could be devastating to a candidate’s chances in the general election,  and perhaps even in the primary once other candidates start fleshing that out and making people understand she’s actually calling for outlawing private insurance entirely.29-medicare-for-all-chart.w710.h473.2x.jpg

https://www.nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/06/warren-makes-risky-call-to-end-private-health-insurance.html

 

 

Yep. Classic dem foot shooting via overreach.  As was the candidates essentially daring each other to say the word abortion explicitly.

 

And the AR ban.

 

"Give everyone sound bites that could lose you the rust belt in the general (again) or you're not woke enough!!"

 

Sigh.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Dems need to keep eyes on prize and not eviscerate one another throughout process. 

They need to not trot obvious nonstarters like Deblasio out there as it takes time from the folks that have a shot  

I think Warren needs to take the “8 Mile” approach and lay out the stuff Trump would say about her and just address it head on  (she has to some extent already)  to take some of Trump’s ability to derail debates away.

Candidates need to also avoid hair trigger Twitter outrage to things not verified. I think Booker and Harris hurt their credibility (and acted trump-like) when within seconds of the Smollet “attack” they were tweeting about it being a modern day lynching. These type of reactionary responses without knowing facts are what Trump does and Dem candidates replicating this behavior doesn’t help.  

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/27/democrats-began-sorting-wheat-from-chaff-beto-was-chaff

 

The piece is an assessment of all the candidates but headline is "Beto was chaff" Plus this gem:

 

Next to Warren, some of the other candidates seemed deflated, even juvenile. Former congressman and onetime Senate candidate Beto O’Rourke delivered canned, non-specific answers that seemed passionless and rehearsed. He had the under-slept, over-anxious aura of a college kid who had stayed up all night cramming for an exam.

 

Im a big Beto fan but afraid he's not going to be able to change the narrative around his campaign. That debate, on the whole, was not good for him.

 

Loved Liz Warren. Everything she is, self made, smart, challenge to the status quo, anti corruption is the perfect response to Trump. I wish we could just crown her the nominee and get on to taking down Trump.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Biggest mistakes of each candidate:

De Blasio - shouting over others, looking nutty

Booker - too much focus on race

Gabbard - too many references to her military service

Delaney - competent answers but didn’t say anything very memorable.

Klobuchar - was too much of a realist in her responses

Warren - getting rid of private insurance (I think that was the question, or did I hear it wrong?). That single issue will turn off a lot of voters frightened of such a big change.

Castro - did great but went a little too far when he bowed up.

Ryan - was too aggressive sounding.

Inslee - women’s rights reference.

Beto - did not demonstrate grasp of policies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Incredulity said:

 

She verbally eviserates him, he calls her Pocahontas.  She gets bright red, makes a more detailed argument.  He sputters a few sentence fragments punctuated with socialism and Pocahontas.

I understand why you think that’s how it would go and Trump would certainly approach it that way but Liz would put him on defense.  She’d slap that weak ass Pocahontas shit down and go after the jugular and never let up. Trump would just be left with incoherent phrases like “the democrats are worse”.  “Lowest black unemployment rate ever!”  “No collusion, no obstruction!” 

I’m still skeptical Trump makes it to a debate stage tho...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Biggest mistakes of each candidate:

De Blasio - shouting over others, looking nutty

Booker - too much focus on race

Gabbard - too many references to her military service

Delaney - competent answers but didn’t say anything very memorable.

Klobuchar - was too much of a realist in her responses

Warren - getting rid of private insurance (I think that was the question, or did I hear it wrong?). That single issue will turn off a lot of voters frightened of such a big change.

Castro - did great but went a little too far when he bowed up.

Ryan - was too aggressive sounding.

Inslee - women’s rights reference.

Beto - did not demonstrate grasp of policies.
 

Mrs. Warren was the only one up there qualified. I like her message which seems to be legitimately pro average citizen, and she has the policy positions to back it up.  Of course none of them would ever get thru Congress because the whole body is controlled by the very folks she wants to neuter.

Her quiet, soft spoken, I look like the town librarian persona, and lack of a strong presence will keep her from winning the nomination.  Perception is reality when it comes to voting for candidates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I understand why you think that’s how it would go and Trump would certainly approach it that way but Liz would put him on defense.  She’d slap that weak ass Pocahontas shit down and go after the jugular and never let up. Trump would just be left with incoherent phrases like “the democrats are worse”.  “Lowest black unemployment rate ever!”  “No collusion, no obstruction!” 

I’m still skeptical Trump makes it to a debate stage tho...

She's beat him on substance all day, but that weak ass Pocahantus stuff is all her doing, and she doubled down on it a few months ago, and it backfired on her. So while it's juvenile,  and has noting to do with her qualifications, it's her own doing, and it's effective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the narrative around Beto is bullshit.  you could say shit about Warren how she let the conversation go and didn't jump in there on important topics like the leader of the free world should.  people are making fun of Booker for being vapid too.  Some could say Klobuchar was a wet blanket, Tulsi doesn't know her ABC's as she almost mucked up LGBTQ like Tim Kaine almost did at the HRC national dinner the year he ran with Hillary.  You could say Castro was borderline autistic as he quoted statutes "BUT SECTION 1325!!! WOULD YOU REPEAL SECTION 1325!!!??" - he hijacked immigration like the over eager school kid that has to be the one with his hand in the air every single question, and  you could do this shit to every one of the candidates. 

But the truth is, the media loves coming at Beto he is in a serious negative cycle that no one will call bullshit.  His "re-write immigration laws in our own image" is a line he goes to a lot.  but it's also after he says honor asylum requests which is the bulk of the "illegal" immigration we are dealing with right now.  It's after he talks about DACA, path to citizenship, and after he talks about how to deal with detention centers.  He also had the fucking balls to tell Castro - if we reform immigration, it's not too much to ask people to follow our laws.  Fuck Castro, if we have fair and sensible immigration reform, yeah it should be a crime to cross illegally.  Now don't separate families because of it, but black list the adults crossing and send them back.  

Beto spoke well several times, no one spends much time talking about it.

I think Beto, Warren and Booker could beat Trump.  I'll take any of those three.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Mrs. Warren was the only one up there qualified. I like her message which seems to be legitimately pro average citizen, and she has the policy positions to back it up.  Of course none of them would ever get thru Congress because the whole body is controlled by the very folks she wants to neuter.

Her quiet, soft spoken, I look like the town librarian persona, and lack of a strong presence will keep her from winning the nomination.  Perception is reality when it comes to voting for candidates.

I think the double standard will be front and center on the debate stage.  Trump will hoot and holler and rile up his base and Warren will respond and he will point at her and say, "see, she's not presidential, she's too angry" or some shit like that as a narrative post-debate.  media will be accomplices.  BUT she can still win.  and while I'll take her, Beto or Booker from last night, I think she's the only one left standing after Super Tuesday from last night's stage.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She's beat him on substance all day, but that weak ass Pocahantus stuff is all her doing, and she doubled down on it a few months ago, and it backfired on her. So while it's juvenile,  and has noting to do with her qualifications, it's her own doing, and it's effective.
That will not be an issue other than to the 40% of depolorables. Those are not going to be enough for Trump to win.

The story is that like many people from Oklahoma she grew up with family stories of Indian ancestry. That is extremely common. I had the same in my family. Being from a different background--poor, socially conservative, working class--she played up that honestly believed ancestry at times as more or less a conversation piece. It did not advance her academic career--this has been researched and reported on thoroughly and there's zero evidence it factored in to faculty hirnig decision. Nor was it her intent to use it to advance her career. She fucked up by trying to play Trump's game with the DNA test but everyone that matters is over it.

Her policies are ambitious and most won't get through as proposed--or at all--but she can succeed with the centerpiece of her campaign: end the rampant corruption across our government and society. You want to drain the swamp? Vote for Liz Warren.
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, troph said:

I think the double standard will be front and center on the debate stage.  Trump will hoot and holler and rile up his base and Warren will respond and he will point at her and say, "see, she's not presidential, she's too angry" or some shit like that as a narrative post-debate.  media will be accomplices.  BUT she can still win.  and while I'll take her, Beto or Booker from last night, I think she's the only one left standing after Super Tuesday from last night's stage.  

Bookers made some good points, but the guy is one question away from a vein popping.  

Beto ?  He's playing on the I look a little like JFK if you squint.

Mrs. Warren is the only one from last night that should go any further.

I was a little disappointed with Gabbie, beacuse I think she has the chops to be an executive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, troph said:

the narrative around Beto is bullshit.  you could say shit about Warren how she let the conversation go and didn't jump in there on important topics like the leader of the free world should.  people are making fun of Booker for being vapid too.  Some could say Klobuchar was a wet blanket, Tulsi doesn't know her ABC's as she almost mucked up LGBTQ like Tim Kaine almost did at the HRC national dinner the year he ran with Hillary.  You could say Castro was borderline autistic as he quoted statutes "BUT SECTION 1325!!! WOULD YOU REPEAL SECTION 1325!!!??" - he hijacked immigration like the over eager school kid that has to be the one with his hand in the air every single question, and  you could do this shit to every one of the candidates. 

But the truth is, the media loves coming at Beto he is in a serious negative cycle that no one will call bullshit.  His "re-write immigration laws in our own image" is a line he goes to a lot.  but it's also after he says honor asylum requests which is the bulk of the "illegal" immigration we are dealing with right now.  It's after he talks about DACA, path to citizenship, and after he talks about how to deal with detention centers.  He also had the fucking balls to tell Castro - if we reform immigration, it's not too much to ask people to follow our laws.  Fuck Castro, if we have fair and sensible immigration reform, yeah it should be a crime to cross illegally.  Now don't separate families because of it, but black list the adults crossing and send them back.  

Beto spoke well several times, no one spends much time talking about it.

I think Beto, Warren and Booker could beat Trump.  I'll take any of those three.

This. I don't understand why people think Castro got one over on Beto. Castro was a dick. And he is wrong on his assessment and on Beto. Castro didn't own the immigration issue. He "but 1325'd" it! Castro wants open borders. Fuck that. All Castro wants to do is  repeal 1325 and that will make everything easy. It's not that simple and it's the wrong policy. Beto wants full immigration reform, and if you do that, you don't need to repeal 1325. Castro is a fuckng amateur who played dirty pool against a friend last night in the debate and again in interviews. Didn't do his homework? Fuck you dude. 

Edited by Longhorn94
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, horncyclist said:

That will not be an issue other than to the 40% of depolorables. Those are not going to be enough for Trump to win.

The story is that like many people from Oklahoma she grew up with family stories of Indian ancestry. That is extremely common. I had the same in my family. Being from a different background--poor, socially conservative, working class--she played up that honestly believed ancestry at times as more or less a conversation piece. It did not advance her academic career--this has been researched and reported on thoroughly and there's zero evidence it factored in to faculty hirnig decision. Nor was it her intent to use it to advance her career. She fucked up by trying to play Trump's game with the DNA test but everyone that matters is over it.

Her policies are ambitious and most won't get through as proposed--or at all--but she can succeed with the centerpiece of her campaign: end the rampant corruption across our government and society. You want to drain the swamp? Vote for Liz Warren.

I hear you, lots of people have been told the family history that isn't  really accurate. She's doubled down on something that's been pretty much debunked and should just say it's been the family history I guess I was wrong.  Move on. The DNA test showed she was more likely from Central American ancestry more than North American native.

And I do very much like her policy positions, and will be rooting for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear you, lots of people have been told the family history that isn't  really accurate. She's doubled down on something that's been pretty much debunked and should just say it's been the family history I guess I was wrong.  Move on. The DNA test showed she was more likely from Central American ancestry more than North American native.
And I do very much like her policy positions, and will be rooting for her.
Everyone, including her, agrees she fucked up with the DNA test. She apologized appropriately. This is Liz's "but her emails" and she should no longer engage it. And Democrats shouldnt either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, horncyclist said:
3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:
I hear you, lots of people have been told the family history that isn't  really accurate. She's doubled down on something that's been pretty much debunked and should just say it's been the family history I guess I was wrong.  Move on. The DNA test showed she was more likely from Central American ancestry more than North American native.
And I do very much like her policy positions, and will be rooting for her.

Everyone, including her, agrees she fucked up with the DNA test. She apologized appropriately. This is Liz's "but her emails" and she should no longer engage it. And Democrats shouldnt either.

When did she say she fucked up ?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, elguapo said:

Whoever the Dem candidate end up being needs to completely pants him on the national stage, and I don't think it would be that hard to do.

Hillary pants him 3 times and nearly every Trump supporter thought he won all 3 debates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4/2 - Castro's Comprehensive Immigration Policy - "People First Immigration"

(Much Later) - Beto's Comprehensive Immigration Policy - "In Our Own Image Immigration"

Say what you want, but the idea that Castro is an amateur who doesn't know what he's talking about is a joke. (Castro wants to break up ICE, Beto wants to Make ICE Great Again, yet another point Castro wins)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Who is she supposed to do an interview with? MSNBC hit her with an attack question on stage and they're insanely biased against her. Corporate media hates her because she's in opposition to war machines and imperialism.

Anti-war voices should just shut up and go away?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

Warren was good and stayed strong but didn't have any big moments to propel her higher.  Her "I do" moment was poised for greatness, but wasted when she didn't actually say what her plan was.

Yeah, I was going to comment on this, but I can only make people so mad in any given hour.

She said her catchphrase, literally waited for an applause break like she's Kramer entering a room, and then proceeded to not give a plan.

That's not sustainable. That catchphrase can turn into a punchline real quick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yeah, I was going to comment on this, but I can only make people so mad in any given hour.

She said her catchphrase, literally waited for an applause break like she's Kramer entering a room, and then proceeded to not give a plan.

That's not sustainable. That catchphrase can turn into a punchline real quick.

Let’s review what actually happened.

She directly answered the question.  Simple and short. 

And then she went on to ADD how she plans to handle MCConnell. 

Which ironically is Bernie Sanders approach to getting shit done.

Movement pressure from the outside among the people combined with internal pressure from the top.  She said the fight doesn’t end after the election, it keeps going. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Movement pressure from the outside among the people combined with internal pressure from the top.  She said the fight doesn’t end after the election, it keeps going. 

I don't know what she means by "starts at the White House". It's good to talk about pressure from the outside, but I'd like some meat on those bones. How is she going to keep that pressure up? How is she going to organize? How is she going to motivate grassroots activism?

Saying, "We're going to fight!" is one thing, but who is the "we"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

13.4% of the population speaks Spanish 

Which means that 86.6% of the population do not.  What block is more likely to help you win an election especially when you consider how many of that 13.4% also speak English.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

because children are being murdered en masse

Seems like a good thing to be angry about

She's angry about children being murdered yet supports abortions at nine months.  Interesting campaign strategy, let's see how it works for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This. I don't understand why people think Castro got one over on Beto. Castro was a dick. And he is wrong on his assessment and on Beto. Castro didn't own the immigration issue. He "but 1325'd" it! Castro wants open borders. Fuck that. All Castro wants to do is  repeal 1325 and that will make everything easy. It's not that simple and it's the wrong policy. Beto wants full immigration reform, and if you do that, you don't need to repeal 1325. Castro is a fuckng amateur who played dirty pool against a friend last night in the debate and again in interviews. Didn't do his homework? Fuck you dude. 

I agree with you on Castro, and agree with those that said the exchange made Beto look weak. To me that whole exchange made them both look worse. But Castro is getting some shine from it. I think people want to see candidates who can bloody Trump's nose a bit, and Castro showed his willingness to throw hands. Even if I think he looked like a dick.   

 

I'd like to see Warren show some of that funk. But not in the overstimulated angry grandma way. More in the cocky/confident subtlely ruthless way that I've seen Castro, Harris, and even Klobuchar do.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From watching a few clips on Twitter I can say objectively, wholly irrespective of my subjective feelings towards the candidates,  that Tulsi was the clear winner and Liz was the clear loser. Also, Beta can’t speak Spanish for shit. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, McCroskey said:

My God these are the stupidest topics ever.

When are we going to get to the meaningful shit?  You know, things like the massive cuts necessary to Social Security and massive medicare & healthcare reforms, not to mention education.  We are the most advanced country in the nation and we ignore our biggest problems because people would rather ignore the problems than address them.

You are trying to win the 2020 election.  Do you think that is going to happen if you tell the people you are trying to get to vote for you that either they are going to have to pay more or get less in benefits when everyone else on the stage is promising free health care, free education, and free unicorns to the same voters?

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who is she supposed to do an interview with? MSNBC hit her with an attack question on stage and they're insanely biased against her. Corporate media hates her because she's in opposition to war machines and imperialism.

Anti-war voices should just shut up and go away?

I know right.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, markstanco said:

I didnt watch, but I bet the pandering to specific groups of races and lifestyles were hilarious. How much money did they promise these groups of people for their vote?

Is it an Oldies Weekend?

Now we go back in time to when some people were stupid enough to believe the GOP was fiscally conservative and never pandered. We bring you the dulcet tones of Ronnie Reagan and the Laffers singing "The Death Tax Is To Help the Farmers!" That will always be a good one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'd like to see Warren show some of that funk. But not in the overstimulated angry grandma way. More in the cocky/confident subtlely ruthless way that I've seen Castro, Harris, and even Klobuchar do.

Get her on stage with Joe.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

She's angry about children being murdered yet supports abortions at nine months.  Interesting campaign strategy, let's see how it works for her.

Ok let's play this game - the right opposes abortion but supports child separation and is against healthcare. Boom, roasted

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't know what she means by "starts at the White House". It's good to talk about pressure from the outside, but I'd like some meat on those bones. How is she going to keep that pressure up? How is she going to organize? How is she going to motivate grassroots activism?

Saying, "We're going to fight!" is one thing, but who is the "we"?

This is humorous coming from you.  You know how it works.  You build a movement to force change by strong uncompromising leadership.  That’s what she is in the process of doing right now.  It’s a similar strategy to meaningful political change as Bernie.  

Once you build a movement with enough leverage, as a leader you deploy that leverage when needed to force the changes necessary.  

This can include mass mobilization, overwhelming online activism, protests, strikes, and boycotts.   The end game is coercing our so called elected officials to start working for the people instead of their subversive pay masters. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...