2020 Democratic Debates Watch Thread

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

that's rich coming from one of the consistently partisan members of this board.

republicans have cast their lot. they aren't voting dem.

this is your party:

and it's why more people are leaving the party than are joining it right now, and it's why nobody on the democratic side is going to try and woo republican voters. that's just simple madness. congress broke hard left in 2018. democrats would do best to try and continue that momentum rather than meander to the middle and try to bridge the partisan aisle, because republicans ain't playing that game. mcconnell and trump have made this the zero-sum game that it has become. they should've been more careful about what it is the were wishing. because shit is going to get real.

and that's coming from me, a guy who has tried to urge moderation over partisan extremism. but the republicans drove the car off the goddamned cliff, and here we are.

Partisan ? Yep sometimes. My voting habits would not be termed partisan, as I've voted for democratic governors, and senators in Va. throughout the years (last election cycle 2 democratic votes). Beyond that I stopped reading.

You're actions here as a moderator could be termed partisan often.  You're a moderator you're supposed to be non partisan, but the posts I've read of yours make you anything but.

[elfenix 34,223]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Partisan ? Yep sometimes. My voting habits would not be termed partisan, as I've voted for democratic governors, and senators in Va. throughout the years (last election cycle 2 democratic votes). Beyond that I stopped reading.

You're actions here as a moderator could be termed partisan often.  You're a moderator you're supposed to be non partisan, but the posts I've read of yours make you anything but.

attacking the mods.  that's a bold strategy.  let's see how it pays off for him, cotton.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Partisan ? Yep sometimes. My voting habits would not be termed partisan, as I've voted for democratic governors, and senators in Va. throughout the years (last election cycle 2 democratic votes). Beyond that I stopped reading.

You're actions here as a moderator could be termed partisan often.  You're a moderator you're supposed to be non partisan, but the posts I've read of yours make you anything but.

i've endured this accusation for years, usually from the conservative posters. it's absurd.

name the last time i banned someone for a partisan reason. hell, for that matter, name the last moderator action i have taken.

i can have my opinions and disagree with reasonable people. when people resort to trolling, that becomes a problem. when people tell other people to die, it's cut and dry. 

it's simply an empty accusation that people turn to when they can't disagree with me in good faith.

it's weak bullshit, frankly.

Edited June 27, 2019 by hayden_horn

[Biff Tannen 45,665]

56 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Warren has credibility with people who hate Bernie

Who hates Bernie?

[David Dennison 18,849]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Partisan ? Yep sometimes. My voting habits would not be termed partisan, as I've voted for democratic governors, and senators in Va. throughout the years (last election cycle 2 democratic votes). Beyond that I stopped reading.

You're actions here as a moderator could be termed partisan often.  You're a moderator you're supposed to be non partisan, but the posts I've read of yours make you anything but.

Which Democratic governors?

Wilder? Robb? Warner? Kaine? McAuliffe? 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

LOL at any Trumpublican on this board calling anyone else partisan. 

[bad_teammate 13,191]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Who hates Bernie?

Old people.
White liberals with a lot of education and a lot of money.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

attacking the mods.  that's a bold strategy.  let's see how it pays off for him, cotton.

Oooh, scaaaaaaary stuff.  A mod (who slants to the left in his posting history) calling out a poster as partisan when the whole CR is nothing but a partisan festival is beyond dull witted.  

[David Dennison 18,849]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oooh, scaaaaaaary stuff.  A mod (who slants to the left in his posting history) calling out a poster as partisan when the whole CR is nothing but a partisan festival is beyond dull witted.  

So which Democratic governors of the Commonwealth got Onboard's vote?

I'm guessing Robb. Maybe Warner.

[Dirk X West 772]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Old people.
White liberals with a lot of education and a lot of money.

Hillary fans who think Bernie was the main reason she lost in 2016.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oooh, scaaaaaaary stuff.  A mod (who slants to the left in his posting history) calling out a poster as partisan when the whole CR is nothing but a partisan festival is beyond dull witted.  

i slant for more anti-right these days, because i hate what the conservative movement has become. 

my ideas are my own, and belong to no party. 

and expecting me to be some kind of unbiased robot moderator is completely unreasonable, actually. expecting me to moderate in an unbiased manner is fair. 

so, let's review the long list of my partisan moderating bias.  go ahead. since it's so obvious.

[RDCanecutter 26,381]

Hoo boy. I coulda run for president.

Chuck Todd: Senator Canecutter, do you agree that 2 + 2 = 4?

RDCanecutter: Yo soy hombre sincero, de donde crece la palma. Two and four are special numbers to me, because they are American numbers, and similar to three, which reminds me of my three-soldier fire-team, when I and my camouflaged siblings kept the Chinese Army out of Waynesville, North Carolina on Guard Drill Weekends, and yet we welcomed the Chinese buffet. That to me is what Two and four mean, and will continue to mean during a Canecutter Administration.

Chuck Todd: But do 2 + 2 = 4?

RDCanecutter: I'm glad you asked, Chuck. I am going to share an oddly specific memory I have of talking to Mr. Russell Givhan of Marlin, Texas, a man with dreams, 47 credit hours of Junior College, and a missing left pinky toe. As Russell and I sat on the abandoned loading dock, drinking Bull's Head Scuppernong Wine out of a tattered paper bag, he told me, he said "Canecutter, don't ever get married. I need a piece of cheese. You got some more of that cheese, Canecutter?" And I didn't, Chuck. I didn't have any more of that cheese.

[BradInATX 9,208]

I don’t agree with any of the Dem candidates on much, but after write in candidate protest voting in 2016 I’ve accepted that I’m just going to have to vote for the Democrat in 2020 no matter how looney the platform is.   Trump being our President is too unconscionable. But I do hope the Democrat nominee is one of the moderates (which basically leaves Biden, and then Klobuchar, Delaney and maybe Beto, although only Biden has a real shot), and that the Congress stays divided after 2020.  I just want the psychopath con man out of the Presidency while mostly being gridlocked and returning to normal instead of the Democrats getting to pass Bernie’s platform or the Dotard and Republican sycophants continuing their homage to Nero’s Rome.  

I don’t think there are a lot of ton of people exactly like me, but there probably will be more conservatives in play for Democrats than any other election in the last 20+ years, and there are plenty of older left-leaning people who just want a return to normalcy more than radical change.  It could be enough to make a moderate primary campaign a better play than you would think, especially since about 19 of the 24 candidates are all vying for the most progressive mantle. 

 

The Democrats are unlikely to take the Senate and if they do it'll be like 51-49. Knowing that, I'll have no qualms voting for someone way left of me on healthcare or gun control. The WV and Alaska senators, amongst others, won't go for M4A or bans on specific firearms. 

If they win we're going to get some leftist policies, which is great by me as they'll be tempered and dialed back to reasonable end results like a public option and saner gun control measures.

 

To that end, screw it. I'll happily vote for Bernie or Warren over Trump. I'd vote for almost anyone over him. The worst candidate on stage last night would be an exponential improvement.

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,665]

10 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Hillary fans who think Bernie was the main reason she lost in 2016.

I don't get this.  I mean, I didn't HATE Hillary, but she certainly wasn't good.  I can't imagine being so in love with her as a candidate that you're still upset she lost 3 years later.  She was just another bullshit politician.  There wasn't anything special about her.

[MidTexHorn 822]

11 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I don’t agree with any of the Dem candidates on much, but after write in candidate protest voting in 2016 I’ve accepted that I’m just going to have to vote for the Democrat in 2020 no matter how looney the platform is.   Trump being our President is too unconscionable.

But I do hope the Democrat nominee is one of the moderates (which basically leaves Biden, and then Klobuchar, Delaney and maybe Beto, although only Biden has a real shot), and that the Congress stays divided after 2020.  I just want the psychopath con man out of the Presidency while mostly being gridlocked and returning to normal instead of the Democrats getting to pass Bernie’s platform or the Dotard and Republican sycophants continuing their homage to Nero’s Rome.  

I don’t think there are a lot of ton of people exactly like me, but there probably will be more conservatives in play for Democrats than any other election in the last 20+ years, and there are plenty of older left-leaning people who just want a return to normalcy more than radical change.  It could be enough to make a moderate primary campaign a better play than you would think, especially since about 19 of the 24 candidates are all vying for the most progressive mantle. 

I know some folks like you. What I strongly believe though, is that at the end of the day they won't be able to pull the trigger for a D no matter how distasteful they find Trump. I don't think going overboard to appeal to this segment of the electorate by nominating a Biden is worthwhile.

I also know a number of folks like me, who are lifelong Republican voters who have fully made the switch and will not only vote anything but Trump but will also support much more left-leaning policy and Democratic candidates for offices other than the Presidency. I have several friends and family members who I am firmly convinced will never vote for another Republican again, at least at any time in the foreseeable future. For some of us, Trump was the eye opener we needed to swing way left and realize the lie we'd been buying from the so called conservatives.

[American Swindle 102]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The main reason Americans think the economy is good is because they are constantly told it is good by corporate America and the Trump regime.   It’s a piss poor question and doesn’t accurately capture the public’s assessment on the economy. 

The question should be, “Do you think the economy is working to improve the quality of life of most Americans?”

I’d love to see the response breakdown on that question. 

I'll tell you a response you won't get but is most likely to be true: "I have no informed opinion, because I don't understand economics, have no knowledge of economic history nor a basic understanding of Keynesian or Austrian Economic theory." 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by American Swindle

[hayden_horn 11,362]

2 minutes ago, MidTexHorn said:

I know some folks like you. What I strongly believe though, is that at the end of the day they won't be able to pull the trigger for a D no matter how distasteful they find Trump. I don't think going overboard to appeal to this segment of the electorate by nominating a Biden is worthwhile.

I also know a number of folks like me, who are lifelong Republican voters who have fully made the switch and will not only vote anything but Trump but will also support much more left-leaning policy and Democratic candidates for offices other than the Presidency. I have several friends and family members who I am firmly convinced will never vote for another Republican again, at least at any time in the foreseeable future. For some of us, Trump was the eye opener we needed to swing way left and realize the lie we'd been buying from the so called conservatives.

it's not just trump. it's mcconnell, it's the nra, it's dan patrick, it's abbott, it's cruz and cornyn. it's a number of things. the whole republican party is just so fucking gross right now. just watch a trump rally. 

i used to vote probably 75% republican, with the rest libertarian. very rarely would i vote for a dem. 

now i am 0% republican and it's largely because fuck them, that's why. the party is shit. 

[American Swindle 102]

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Old people.
White liberals with a lot of education and a lot of money.

Did you just describe Bernie yourself?  

[Dbeasy 15,042]

I love how this country all comes together from both sides of the aisle to hate Chuck Todd. He is uniting us all.

[bad_teammate 13,191]

8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't get this.  I mean, I didn't HATE Hillary, but she certainly wasn't good.  I can't imagine being so in love with her as a candidate that you're still upset she lost 3 years later.  She was just another bullshit politician.  There wasn't anything special about her.

My friend, I'd like to introduce you to #StillWithHer

It's wild.

 

[Skipper 6,127]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Sanders has the mass movement behind him, the young people, and he's the ideological leader of the party.

 Disagree.  Sanders is the idealogical leader of woke twitter and millenials (and younger) poors that have made regarded financial decisions and think there is actually a shot in hell their slate can be wiped clean and all their financial problems can be solved because he's elected and they no longer pay for anything (college, loans, healthcare, all magically covered by "the rich").  Newsflash.  It's never going to happen.  

Delaney is hated on left and right here and throughout ultra lib media (social and otherwise) but what he's said last night is right.   Paraphrasing... the only way anything is actually going to get accomplished is to stop making absurd promises with ridiculous 'free shit for everyone' platforms and work on real reform that has a chance in hell of ever passing with the support of moderate republicans.   What many Dems don't seem to understand is someone like Delaney (Biden probably the best realistic shot) is the only way they may actually get SOME of what they want (i.e., gun reform, climate change, immigration, reasonably health reform and other 'social' issues that a majority of the American people might support).    The free shit is just a pipe dream.  If Bernie (and AOC in the background) is the actual idealogical leader, then prepare for 4 more year of Trump followed by whomever follows in his footsteps because even those that may not like Trump will vote for their pocketbooks and even most uneducated people understand their is no such thing as a free lunch.

[hobbes2702 13,029]

58 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How am I an "Onboard type republican" ?  That you make the comment that you don't need republicans to win is a huge part of the problem we have today. Us vs. them.   We're electing the president of the United States, not of the party.

The comments about not needing republicans to win isn’t part of the problem it’s a mathematical fact.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

He's an absolute genius at being a troll and bully.
He's an imbecile in basically every other respect, but GOOD GOD

That's what I've always thought. Outside of hitting him where it hurts (his bank account)...which I doubt any candidate can do....whatever "blow" you deliver to him is just going to be absorbed into his fat.


He does a hell of a job shrugging people off and changing the topic at hand. Good luck beating him up cause not a lot of people are richer than him

[bad_teammate 13,191]

Just now, Skipper said:

 Disagree.  Sanders is the idealogical leader of woke twitter and millenials (and younger) poors that have made regarded financial decisions and think there is actually a shot in hell their slate can be wiped clean and all their financial problems can be solved because he's elected and they no longer pay for anything (college, loans, healthcare, all magically covered by "the rich").  Newsflash.  It's never going to happen.  

Delaney is hated on left and right here and throughout ultra lib media (social and otherwise) but what he's said last night is right.   Paraphrasing... the only way anything is actually going to get accomplished is to stop making absurd promises with ridiculous 'free shit for everyone' platforms and work on real reform that has a chance in hell of ever passing with the support of moderate republicans.   What many Dems don't seem to understand is someone like Delaney (Biden probably the best realistic shot) is the only way they may actually get SOME of what they want (i.e., gun reform, climate change, immigration, reasonably health reform and other 'social' issues that a majority of the American people might support).    The free shit is just a pipe dream.  If Bernie (and AOC in the background) is the actual idealogical leader, then prepare for 4 more year of Trump followed by whomever follows in his footsteps because even those that may not like Trump will vote for their pocketbooks and even most uneducated people understand their is no such thing as a free lunch.

that's a LOT of words for "I'm a dumb republican baby goo goo ga ga"

[MidTexHorn 822]

23 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

it's not just trump. it's mcconnell, it's the nra, it's dan patrick, it's abbott, it's cruz and cornyn. it's a number of things. the whole republican party is just so fucking gross right now. just watch a trump rally. 

i used to vote probably 75% republican, with the rest libertarian. very rarely would i vote for a dem. 

now i am 0% republican and it's largely because fuck them, that's why. the party is shit. 

Yup. Described me to a T, as well as multiple family members and friends. It's anecdotal, not sure how many other folks fall into our camp.

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

44 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So which Democratic governors of the Commonwealth got Onboard's vote?

I'm guessing Robb. Maybe Warner.

Northram after the blackface pic came out.

[Skipper 6,127]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

that's a LOT of words for "I'm a dumb republican baby goo goo ga ga"

Typical to think anyone that doesn't agree with ridiculous ultra lib fantasyland platform is a "Republican".  I've voted for Bush, Obama, Romney, Libertarian.  Voted for Beto and virtually all democrats last election in Texas.  I despise what the Republican Party has become.   But the Bernie movement is batshit crazy and I constantly go back and forth regarding which group (far left or far right) I find more idiotic.  

[bad_teammate 13,191]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Typical to think anyone that doesn't agree with ridiculous ultra lib fantasyland platform is a "Republican". 

then

Quote

I've voted for Bush, Obama, Romney, Libertarian.

hahaha fuck off, Republican

[Skipper 6,127]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

then

hahaha fuck off, Republican

Sorry ur poor.  Bernie aint going to help you

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

6 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Typical to think anyone that doesn't agree with ridiculous ultra lib fantasyland platform is a "Republican".  I've voted for Bush, Obama, Romney, Libertarian.  Voted for Beto and virtually all democrats last election in Texas.  I despise what the Republican Party has become.   But the Bernie movement is batshit crazy and I constantly go back and forth regarding which group (far left or far right) I find more idiotic.  

Booooooooooooth Siiiiiiiiiiiiiidessssssss

[BradInATX 9,208]

Sorry ur poor.  Bernie aint going to help you

Dumb.

But the "anyone right of Che is a republican" thing is b_t's schtick. Learn to love it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

26 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't get this.  I mean, I didn't HATE Hillary, but she certainly wasn't good.  I can't imagine being so in love with her as a candidate that you're still upset she lost 3 years later.  She was just another bullshit politician.  There wasn't anything special about her.

I know I’m not going to persuade anyone on this but Hillary wasn’t just another bullshit politician. I mean, the Russian government organized possibly one of the greatest crimes of all time to stop her.  They don’t do that for bullshit politicians.  

Hillary is misunderstood and that is her own fault for projecting the image of a corporate shill because she did cozy up to the big money to obtain power.  However, the people in the know were afraid of Hillary because they knew she was a social justice liberal underneath playing the role of a moderate to get elected. 

Don’t believe me?  look at what she is doing today when she has nothing to gain politically.  Look at the moments in her career she stuck her neck out for things like healthcare and going after Putin and China for being Authoritarian pieces of shit.  

Hillary failed because she tried to tightrope the “both sides” space politically.  She came off disingenuous and untrustworthy because of her lack of visible conviction on damn near everything.  So I can see why most consider her a bullshit politician, she tried real hard to wear that costume.  She had an authenticity problem and it cost her the presidency. 

[Skipper 6,127]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Dumb.

But the "anyone right of Che is a republican" thing is b_t's schtick. Learn to love it.

Ehh, If he's going to generalize political idealogy I'll assume anyone supporting Bernie is just a poor with a hand out (despite having a friend that is very very not poor that supports Bernie and I've yet to comprehend why).

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 Hillary wasn’t just another bullshit politician.

 

3 sentences later, same post:

Quote

she did cozy up to the big money to obtain power

 

 

lol

 

[RDCanecutter 26,381]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

But the "anyone right of Che is a republican" thing is b_t's schtick. Learn to love it.

Che was a privileged Cis Male Irish Argentine who went slumming among the island people for credito de calle. If he'd been brown, and rode a crappy motorcycle around South America, they woulda called that "jueves". But since it's Che, he gets a whole movie. La di Da.

Furthermore, Che ate with a knife and fork just like every Republican not named Lincoln.

OK, maybe Lincoln too.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

3 sentences later, same post:

 

 

lol

 

Nuance.  Just because you take the money of the bad guys doesn't mean you'll be loyal to them forever.  That's kinda how this works.  You take the money to obtain power and then you screw them over once you're in power.   American politics in a nutshell really. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Nuance.  Just because you take the money of the bad guys doesn't mean you'll be loyal to them forever.  That's kinda how this works.  You take the money to obtain power and then you screw them over once you're in power.   American politics in a nutshell really. 

lol

[jimmyjazz 45,888]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

You don't think it has anything to do with the way the stock market surged during trump's 1st 2 years or the still steadily falling unemployment rate? 

The market is climbing at a compound growth rate of 10.5% annual under Trump.

It averaged 15.2% annual under Obama.  DO SOMETHING!!!

[jimmyjazz 45,888]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You're a moderator you're supposed to be non partisan, 

Wait, what?  Says who?

[F250 28,764]

19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Nuance.  Just because you take the money of the bad guys doesn't mean you'll be loyal to them forever.  That's kinda how this works.  You take the money to obtain power and then you screw them over once you're in power.   American politics in a nutshell really. 

But that's not reality. If that were the case K Street wouldn't be a thing.

 

[bad_teammate 13,191]

37 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

But the "anyone right of Che is a republican" thing is b_t's schtick. Learn to love it.

Fill out this list of your presidential votes (if you're old enough).

'00
'04
'08
'12
'16

If your list is
'00 - Bush
'04 - Bush
'08 - Obama
'12 - Romney
'16 - Johnson

then you're a Republican.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Fill out this list of your presidential votes (if you're old enough).

'00
'04
'08
'12
'16

If your list is
'00 - Bush
'04 - Bush
'08 - Obama
'12 - Romney
'16 - Johnson

then you're a Republican.

Well, you got 2/5 right.

[Skipper 6,127]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Fill out this list of your presidential votes (if you're old enough).

'00
'04
'08
'12
'16

If your list is
'00 - Bush
'04 - Bush
'08 - Obama
'12 - Romney
'16 - Johnson

then you're a Republican.

Or it could mean you are a moderate waiting for a 3rd party to emerge that actually represents your political ideology.

[Guest Lobo]

Mine is:

00-bush 

04-bednarik

08-obama

12-Johnson 

16-Johnson 

20-Castro, weld, or maybe Harris 

[David Dennison 18,849]

5 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Or it could mean you are a moderate waiting for a 3rd party to emerge that actually represents your political ideology.

After 243 years, maybe next year is the year we get a viable third party.

[bad_teammate 13,191]

12 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Well, you got 2/5 right.

Come on, buddy, let's see the list.

I'll do (some of)
'92 - Clinton (donated/voted for Brown in the primary (didn't donate or organize for Clinton in the general))
'96 - Clinton (didn't vote in the primary, didn't donate or volunteer or anything)
'00 - Gore (donated/voted for Nader in primary (didn't donate or organize for Gore in the general))
'04 - Kerry (donated/voted for Dean in primary then organized for Kerry in the general)
'08 - Obama (donated/voted/organized for Obama in the primary and general)
'12 - Obama (donated/voted/organized for Obama in the primary and general)
'16 - Clinton (donated/voted for Sanders in the primary (didn't donate or organize for Clinton in the general (see a pattern with me and the Clintonverse?) - though, to be fair, I did do a little fundraising for Hillary, basically by social coercion, damnit

7 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Or it could mean you are a moderate waiting for a 3rd party to emerge that actually represents your political ideology.

Yeah I'm sure that's what you tell yourself, Republican.

Edited June 27, 2019 by bad_teammate

[bad_teammate 13,191]

8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Mine is:

00-bush 

04-bednarik

08-obama

12-Johnson 

16-Johnson 

20-Castro, weld, or maybe Harris 

*Democrats, looking at this list*

"Get the fuck out of here, Bernie, we can't lose this voter!"

[David Dennison 18,849]

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Fill out this list of your presidential votes (if you're old enough).

'00 Bush
'04 Kerry
'08 Barry
'12 Barry
'16 Hilldawg

 

 

[bad_teammate 13,191]

David with the respectable showing.

Firm handshakes.

--------------------------------------------

UH-OH HOOLIAN, they found the receipts!

 

[Guest Lobo]

They can certainly afford to lose me.  My point was that idiotically insane trump voters aside, Democrats would do well remember that not everybody against them is for him.  Midwestern voters of myriad tastes will decide this election and I am one of them.