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2020 Democratic Debates Watch Thread

bad_teammate

By bad_teammate
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23699

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3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

BTW did anyone catch that Harris said she would sign an EO to ban "importation" of assault rifles? Was that just a misspeak, or was her use of "importation" vs. "Sale" intentional?

I interpreted her comments as very accommodating to a gun rights perspective.  The republicans banned importation of assault rifles creating stupid work arounds instead of common sense gun laws.  She talked about background checks and something else that I blacked out that sounded reasonable at the time.  She has a measured position on the issue, contrary to some of the others. 

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Just wait until Buttigieg starts speaking High Valyrian tomorrow.

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Liz is a cunt.   Just let her campaign die.

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It's not even a matter of dying in the street.  People who have communicable diseases that go untreated run around and infect other people.  It's not an immigration issue; it's a public-health issue. 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9967

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9 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Harris and Warren are essentially the same candidate. Identical platforms 

I understand your argument. Kamala is a neoliberal. Warren was a Republican. They share the same values and have been indoctrinated into preserving the status quo (despite their protestations). Warren comes off as more progressive than Kamala - the prosecutor. Warren is better on Wall Street than Kamala. Kamala is a quintessential neoliberal Democrat - like Clinton and Ms. Clinton. When push comes to shove, Kamala punches down . . . She would be a good GOP candidate. 

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Neonmoon

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8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Harris is wishy washy and has almost no firm principles. Like Pete, she's a performance artist. She's fucking great at it (as he is), but when it comes to policy she's pretty empty.

Police like rotating judges?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Takeaways...

Bernie was neutral. He had some strong answers and a couple of weak ones (SC, guns). That was a hot, fast-paced bit of theater and he's not a performer. He's a monotone, dogged, and on-message candidate of substance with basically zero style.

As a Bernie Bro, I'm fine with neutral in the midst of chaos. He was smart to let Joe and Kamala fight; interrupting a woman of color would've been bad optics. He needs to be more forceful about guns and not play scared.

Kamala owned. Doesn't mean she's an amazing candidate or honest or trustworthy, but in the specific bloodsport theater of this debate, her viciousness and reliance on catchphrases was effective and fucking fun as hell to watch.

SUPREMELY disappointed that Williamson didn't use arcane orb magic to banish Trump to the everrealm. I guess she's saving that for a future debate.

Yang seemed very happy to just be on the stage, which is smart. He's got nothing to gain from engaging with that sideshow.

Pete froze when Swalwell confronted him on firing the police chief, but he had some great lines that the audience there (which is all rich donors) adored. He is an absolute machine of saying a bunch of pleasing words and he will shine even brighter against fewer candidates.

Gillibrand is worthless.

Hickenlooper is worthless.

I don't know what the point of Bennet is.

Swalwell as attack dog was amusing.

Joe... lol. What a bunch of malarkey. State's rights. Hooray the troops. My son!

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UTDD

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4 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I understand your argument. Kamala is a neoliberal. Warren was a Republican. They share the same values and have been indoctrinated into preserving the status quo (despite their protestations). Warren comes off as more progressive than Kamala - the prosecutor. Warren is better on Wall Street than Kamala. Kamala is a quintessential neoliberal Democrat - like Clinton and Ms. Clinton. When push comes to shove, Kamala punches down . . . She would be a good GOP candidate. 

I think Warren can play well with Wall street types in some ways, but I don't think she is a favorite of theirs at all.  Anecdotally the people I know personally in the finance world are mostly from what I can tell:  "anybody but 1.Bernie or 2.Warren or bust."  Especially Bernie.

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BradInATX

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ep, but I believe in her conversion story and her saying, "I'm with Bernie on this" mean she has truly seen the light.


And that's fair. But you also have to consider that other candidates might change their views. Whether personally, or to reflect the will of the electorate. Isn't that how our democracy is supposed to work?
There's a lot of gray area between ideological purity ala Bernie and being a chameleon like Trump or Hillary. Most of our current candidates including Warren and Harris, are in the "reasonable" zone of that great area. Don't cherry pick just because you like one more.
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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I interpreted her comments as very accommodating to a gun rights perspective.  The republicans banned importation of assault rifles creating stupid work arounds instead of common sense gun laws.  She talked about background checks and something else that I blacked out that sounded reasonable at the time.  She has a measured position on the issue, contrary to some of the others. 
That's how I interpreted it as well. She's too smart to not have that answer rehearsed. Had to be intentional. Good.
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Just now, BradInATX said:

And that's fair. But you also have to consider that other candidates might change their views.

 

Sure, of course, but their records need to validate their claims.

Quote

There's a lot of gray area between ideological purity ala Bernie and being a chameleon like Trump or Hillary. Most of our current candidates including Warren and Harris, are in the "reasonable" zone of that great area. Don't cherry pick just because you like one more.

It's funny how much you cry

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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22 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Biden is a slam dunk in the general

People keep on saying this, but no part of reality supports it.  You can point to polls and punditry, but real life interaction - including watching Biden on the trail and in the first debate - points to the contrary. 

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Anastasis

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

 As a Bernie Bro, I'm fine with neutral in the midst of chaos. He was smart to let Joe and Kamala fight; interrupting a woman of color would've been bad optics. He needs to be more forceful about guns and not play scared.

 

As a dispassionate observer who just wants to see theater, I disagree.  Bernie has a legit civil rights record. Fuck your squabble over bussing, this motherfucker was getting dragged off and hand cuffed by cops in civil rights protests. Fucking let your nuts hang out bern. Or you will get run over by the machine just like last time. 

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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People keep on saying this, but no part of reality supports it.  You can point to polls and punditry, but real life interaction - including watching Biden on the trail and in the first debate - points to the contrary. 

You think he'd lose MI WI or PA?

 

No chance. He's perfect for that part of the country.

 

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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It's funny how much you cry
Lol. This entire thread was you crying like the insecure pussy that you are because other candidates were doing well and hurting your feelings. You are beyond transparent. Your bombast and ego is a terrible veil for the insecure, thin skinned person that you are.

But you're fun to bat around, so keep doing you.
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

As a dispassionate observer who just wants to see theater, I disagree.  Bernie has a legit civil rights record. Fuck your squabble over bussing, this motherfucker was getting dragged off and hand cuffed by cops in civil rights protests. Fucking let your nuts hang out bern. Or you will get run over by the machine just like last time. 

My hope is that Bernie has learned his lesson about venue. That audience ($1750 minimum per ticket) was not going to cheer for Bernie talking about that. He tried that earlier in the season and literally got booed for saying he marched with MLK (which he did).

Wait for a better venue.

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Neonmoon

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3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

People keep on saying this, but no part of reality supports it.  You can point to polls and punditry, but real life interaction - including watching Biden on the trail and in the first debate - points to the contrary. 

 Biden showed his time has past tonight 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

You think he'd lose MI WI or PA?

 

No chance. He's perfect for that part of the country.

 

I absolutely think he could lose ANY of those states. Biden is a fucking clown and always has been. We've been sold a shitty story by punditry and poll predictions. He sucks, everyone with a brain knows it, and he showed in tonight. 

Think about it. Biden is the "favorite", and even with a neutered Bernie performance, got worked by Kamala Harris and outclassed by a 37 year old mayor no one ever heard of 4 months ago.

Biden is fucked. It only gets worse from here. 

 

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UTDD

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2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

People keep on saying this, but no part of reality supports it.  You can point to polls and punditry, but real life interaction - including watching Biden on the trail and in the first debate - points to the contrary. 

I think Biden is a weak candidate in a lot of ways and he may get clipped before the nomination anyway, but against Trump one on one, I think his weaknesses are less important than his comfort level for certain types of voters in certain age ranges and geographic regions.  I think a few other candidates would be good too, but I think certain candidates that are better suited to battle for the nomination now are not necessarily the best for the general.  This is considering everything from money to specific state strategies for the electoral college.

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Anastasis

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

My hope is that Bernie has learned his lesson about venue. That audience ($1750 minimum per ticket) was not going to cheer for Bernie talking about that. He tried that earlier in the season and literally got booed for saying he marched with MLK (which he did).

Wait for a better venue.

The venue is always going to be baked. Be authentic.  Don't over think it.  Bernie should do Bernie shit.  And not be afraid to bump his chest.  Jesus BT.  You know he is fucking up.  Stop with teh excuses. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

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1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I absolutely think he could lose ANY of those states. Biden is a fucking clown and always has been. We've been sold a shitty story by punditry and poll predictions. He sucks, everyone with a brain knows it, and he showed in tonight. 

Think about it. Biden is the "favorite", and even with a neutered Bernie performance, got worked by Kamala Harris and outclassed by a 37 year old mayor no one ever heard of 4 months ago.

Biden is fucked. It only gets worse from here. 

You would think so, but then people have to vote. They might vote for him.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Just now, Anastasis said:

The venue is always going to be baked. Be authentic.  Don't over think it.  Bernie should do Bernie shit.  And not be afraid to bump his chest.  Jesus BT.  You know he is fucking up.  Stop with teh excuses. 

It wasn't a very good performance, but "fucking up" doesn't make any sense.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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I absolutely think he could lose ANY of those states. Biden is a fucking clown and always has been. We've been sold a shitty story by punditry and poll predictions. He sucks, everyone with a brain knows it, and he showed in tonight. 

Think about it. Biden is the "favorite", and even with a neutered Bernie performance, got worked by Kamala Harris and outclassed by a 37 year old mayor no one ever heard of 4 months ago.

Biden is fucked. It only gets worse from here. 

 

Yeah. I mean I certainly hope you're right. But in a theoretical world, a Biden general election candidate made it through a brutal primary and will be facing a wildly unpopular president. The general election vote is a completely different animal. He plays really well to the rust belt. And he's a white guy.

 

And polling has plenty of value. Especially with two known quantities in Trump and Biden.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19441

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4 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Just want to understand how much I got to pay for the “free” stuff

Can you break down which free stuff you like paying for and which free stuff you don't like paying for, because as a Republican you definitely support paying for a lot of free stuff.

Just wondering where you draw the line.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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Just now, BradInATX said:

Yeah. I mean I certainly hope you're right. But in a theoretical world, a Biden general election candidate made it through a brutal primary and will be facing a wildly unpopular president. The general election vote is a completely different animal.

And polling has plenty of value. Especially with two known quantities in Trump and Biden.

Presidential election polling at this point has practically zero value, at least with determining who the "best" candidate is vs. Trump. 

 

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UTDD

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Can you break down which free stuff you like paying for and which free stuff you don't like paying for, because as a Republican you definitely support paying for a lot of free stuff.

Just wondering where you draw the line.

Fair question.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Presidential election polling at this point has practically zero value, at least with determining who the "best" candidate is vs. Trump. 

 

The last two pre-primary hypothetical candidate polls were within 1 and 3 percentage points of the eventual result.

 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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1 minute ago, UTDD said:

If Trump can win, Biden can win.  I will never be deterred by my own common sense again versus the possibilities of American voters when it really counts on Election Day.

If Trump can win, then fucking High Pitch Eric can win. Convincing point. 

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9967

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Buttigieg with only 15% among the Indivisible crowd?

I know Harris owned, but that feels really low.

What I am hearing is Buttigieg has a big problem over the police officer shooting. Swawell hurt him on that one (his only contribution). That will hurt him with the base - who is tired of police shootings. Small city and he essentially admitted he screwed up. (and there were earlier screwups, that may not have been the Mayor's fault). Buttigieg was raised by college professors. And then trained by the elites as a consultant. He will be targeted in the next debates with his healthy 15% support in this debate. He is in the top 4 or 5, which makes him a target for the 15 others trying to get attention. 

This is still Biden's nomination to lose. 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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1 minute ago, BradInATX said:
4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:
Presidential election polling at this point has practically zero value, at least with determining who the "best" candidate is vs. Trump. 
 

The last two pre-primary hypothetical candidate polls were within 1 and 3 percentage points of the result.

Wut?

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