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2020 Democratic Debates Watch Thread

bad_teammate

By bad_teammate
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Hugo Stiglitz
Hugo Stiglitz

Just wait until Buttigieg starts speaking High Valyrian tomorrow.

McCroskey
McCroskey

Liz is a cunt.   Just let her campaign die.

Ghost of LL
Ghost of LL

It's not even a matter of dying in the street.  People who have communicable diseases that go untreated run around and infect other people.  It's not an immigration issue; it's a public-health issue. 

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15594

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Open borders -Another example of how the Republicans do a much better job of using sound bites to distort policy and cause a backlash against Democrats. Democrats need much better sound bites both positive and negative. See also death panels.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

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2 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

that was her sound bite from yesterday but I'll read it.  

Decriminalizing border crossings doesn't mean open borders.  It means that the borders will be enforced through civil laws under which the entrants will be deported but not jailed for a crime.    The crime we're talking about isn't even the primary way our borders are enforced.  It's only a misdemeanor. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19537

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Just now, Dbeasy said:

Open borders -Another example of how the Republicans do a much better job of using sound bites to distort policy and cause a backlash against Democrats. Democrats need much better sound bites both positive and negative. See also death panels.

"Donald Trump is a racist," is the perfect sound bite.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 6166

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9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Why do you do this.  Why say something so ignorant. 

Read her immigration plan please. 

her plan sounds a little like Obama and much of Castro's and I agree with much of it.  But I don't think this will play very well--

Additionally, Warren would raise the number of refugees permitted to enter the U.S. She says she’d welcome 125,000 refugees in her first year in office and increase that total to at least 175,000 by the end of her first term. By contrast, Trump allowed less than 23,000 refugees to resettle in the United States in fiscal year 2018 — roughly half the cap of 45,000.

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/?utm_term=.cf99e9580357

from Time: https://time.com/5624011/elizabeth-warren-immigration-plan-decriminalization/

Admittedly, I'll need to read more about it since I inserted a weak opinion.  

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15594

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Sorry if I was unclear.   I said "although energizing the base is important" in the post about ideologically flexible voters, and there's no question that Dems need to turn out the left.   But I think that is mutually reinforcing with attracting ideologically flexible voters who want a strong vision.   A strong progressive vision will do double work, energizing the base and giving confidence to the people who just want something to believe in.   If we move to the center, we de-energize the base and trade vision for polling data.   In my view, that will hurt turnout on the left and fail to attract those ideologically flexible voters.
Also, my point here has been more about strategy than policy or ideology.   That is, about embracing policies we really believe in and persuading the public that we are right, not worrying about what Republicans will say or trying to triangulate a position from polling data.   There is a range of legitimate progressive policies that can be at the center of that strategy.   The question should be, what do we believe are the right policies for America? 
By no means am I advocating that the party move further left ideologically than Sanders.   I actually think that's too far.   I think the right spot is somewhere between Warren's policies and Harris's stated policies.   I just don't trust Harris and I think she'll move hard to the center/right during the general.   And I think Warren is really establishing a bargaining position on MFA and will move towards the Pete or Harris model as a compromise when push comes to shove.   Their plans are a better ending point for negotiations than a starting point. 
And the compromise aspect is the most important part of all of this.   Nothing these candidates propose will be enacted as is.   Everything in Washington ends in compromise by the design of our government.    Voters know this.   What I think they want in a president — what they've proven to want — is to be able to believe in a vision that will guide the president when making those compromises.    If you send in Warren against the GOP, you know that she'll fight for the strongest progressive ideals and wind up with a compromise that is center-left.    If you send in someone with a centrist starting point, they'll wind up with a compromise that is right of center.  So it's more about the values behind MFA than the policy details at this point.


Well said.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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3 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

her plan sounds a little like Obama and much of Castro's and I agree with much of it.  But I don't think this will play very well--

Additionally, Warren would raise the number of refugees permitted to enter the U.S. She says she’d welcome 125,000 refugees in her first year in office and increase that total to at least 175,000 by the end of her first term. By contrast, Trump allowed less than 23,000 refugees to resettle in the United States in fiscal year 2018 — roughly half the cap of 45,000.

from Time: https://time.com/5624011/elizabeth-warren-immigration-plan-decriminalization/

Admittedly, I'll need to read more about it since I inserted a weak opinion.  

Her economic nationalism plans are the real danger for Republicans/Independents/Midwest.  Trump won on that shit but never articulated how it would work and he really failed them. 

People aren’t going to vote against her over a few hundred thousand refugees they will likely never meet or see and again, Trump is the alternative who has no vision whatsoever. 

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 6166

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Her economic nationalism plans are the real danger for Republicans/Independents/Midwest.  Trump won on that shit but never articulated how it would work and he really failed them. 

People aren’t going to vote against her over a few hundred thousand refugees they will likely never meet or see and again, Trump is the alternative who has no vision whatsoever. 

the refugee issue won't work especially if the economy dips.  I didn't understand her economic nationalism since she's putting that in the hands of people that voted for Trump.  That doesn't make me warm and fuzzy.  

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29579

Posted
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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Her economic nationalism plans are the real danger for Republicans/Independents/Midwest.  Trump won on that shit but never articulated how it would work and he really failed them. 

People aren’t going to vote against her over a few hundred thousand refugees they will likely never meet or see and again, Trump is the alternative who has no vision whatsoever. 

People absolutely will vote against her over a few hundred thousand refugees they’ll never meet. I’m hopeful that her economic message appeals to enough to pull more than her immigration positions will turn away, but there will be plenty of voters who see like six brown people in an entire year who vote against her based on immigration.

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

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Hmmmm....I don't know, do they though?

And the compromise aspect is the most important part of all of this.   Nothing these candidates propose will be enacted as is.   Everything in Washington ends in compromise by the design of our government.    Voters know this.  

Especially the new/first/youth voters that are going to be out in droves. Even the first/xennial 2018 mid-term voters I'm not sure understands the ugly, disheratening and disappointing game that politics is, much less the first-time/genZ 2020 voters which will expect promises to be delivered upon Net 45.

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retread

retread 2951

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8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

People absolutely will vote against her over a few hundred thousand refugees they’ll never meet. I’m hopeful that her economic message appeals to enough to pull more than her immigration positions will turn away, but there will be plenty of voters who see like six brown people in an entire year who vote against her based on immigration.

Trump and the Rs won't be giving nuanced statistics either. They'll just say hundreds of thousands of refugees and *OPEN BORDERS*!!!1

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

People absolutely will vote against her over a few hundred thousand refugees they’ll never meet. I’m hopeful that her economic message appeals to enough to pull more than her immigration positions will turn away, but there will be plenty of voters who see like six brown people in an entire year who vote against her based on immigration.

Yeah, but those folks weren’t considering her anyway and Trump is going to message the democrat being for open borders regardless so Warren’s specifics on the issue are irrelevant.  

The goal for the democrats is to nominate the candidate that can drive up turnout the most and give them something to vote FOR along with voting against Trump.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13522

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The white centrists and conservatives who are dismissing the importance of reparations can eat 17 flavors of shit and die in a hole.

MLK - Letter from a Birmingham Jail

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First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

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retread

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Posted
1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

"I love private insurance the most!"

"No, I love private insurance more!" 

To me, it's not hard. You say that you will defend ACA 100%. It will not go anywhere, but you will work with Ds to fix its shortcomings.

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6274

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, AustinHorn said:

Get this DNC Chair off the stage. 

That was horrific. I cringed when I watched that. Holy hell just stop with the bullshit and put Rashida Tlaib up there calling Dotard a racist and that they are impeaching his ass. Just stop with all the worthless garbage. 

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