The Supremes

[DigglerontheHoof 21236]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

Well if the goal is to limit unplanned pregnancy, shouldn't we be promoting anal?

As far as I know, Texas still hasn't repealed its anti-sodomy laws.  So they have front and back door covered.  No getting laid anyway anyhow without consequences.  Unless, of course, you're a Republican fucking little boys.  They're all down w/ that. 

[Foosters 17887]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Nothing will change until big corporations pull up shop and GTFO.  But that ain't happening because taxes and shit.

Will see if that changes after gay marriage is banned and homosexuality is criminalized.

Lol it won't

[South Austin 52600]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I never thought the framers or the drafters of the 14th amendment ever in their wildest dream thought the Constitution prohibited states regulating abortions.

I don't think they did.  I don't think they thought about abortion one way or another in debating and drafting that document.

Also, for over a century, many people, including incredibly bright federal judges, never thought the framers or the drafters of the 14th Amendment ever in their wildest dreams thought the Constitution prohibited racially segregated schools.

This is the problem with originalism.

Edited May 3, 2022 by South Austin

[tx 3 putt 77414]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think Roberts did it.

 

correct

[Foosters 17887]

12 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Late 20's early 30's?  Fuck if I know.   I just know that if I'm making a bet on the leaker, I'm betting on a clerk vs. justice or long term permanent staff.

Fair enough

[Vegas64 677]

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

Love to live my life according to the principles of two groups: nomadic desert dwellers from 2000 years ago and slave holding aristocrats from 300 years ago.

And this makes perfect sense to me.

You are free to start your own message board following with a new philosophy and codified set of moral laws and behaviors.

[sidis 9832]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't think upholding a ban at 15 weeks is going to be unpopular. Most Americans agree with that. And that puts us right in line with the rest of the developed world. 37 of the 40 European countries have laws that are this restrictive or more.

what about outright banning it regardless of time?  do you think that will be unpopular?

https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=87R&Bill=HB1280

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Neither the framers nor drafters of the 14th amendment thought that women were full citizens.

He’s not engaging in good faith. He knows the opinion strikes at the heart of constitutional rights including prior decisions on contraception and marriage. Framing the decision as limited in scope to a 15 week ban on abortion is intentional. 

[sidis 9832]

12 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Hoping for the usual "I didn't get my way so lets violently riot" response from the emo left.

you honestly have to admire this one...well done.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, sidis said:

what about outright banning it regardless of time?  do you think that will be unpopular?

https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=87R&Bill=HB1280

That would be unpopular.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

He’s not engaging in good faith. He knows the opinion strikes at the heart of constitutional rights including prior decisions on contraception and marriage. Framing the decision as limited in scope to a 15 week ban on abortion is intentional. 

My understanding is that is the holding.

[956 Worldwide 34769]

22 minutes ago, Skipper said:

What I was thinking about was from March, not last summer. 

Harvard Law 2L Walks Away From Summer Associate Position to Protest Law Firm's Work in Russia | Law.com

You have a lot more faith than I do that one of these twenty-something ivy league elites isn't self important enough to leak this.  Most obviously would not but it only takes one.

 

That kid has his head on straight. I am a civil rights absolutist but lawyers can wring themselves into knots to justify their behavior. They’re helping to keep Putin’s rattleclap war machine puffing along so it can bomb hospitals. Kremlin-tied oligarchs don’t have a right to BigLaw representation.

[Gatorubet 30311]

29 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

eh. i blame hillary for being so unlikable that idiots thought trump was a better choice.

 

30 years of gullible people listening to Rush has a consequence. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Gatorubet

[Jive Turkey 12642]

if anybody think that a SCOTUS clerk's career is over if he/she is identified as the leaker, think again.

Eddie Lazarus wrote a tell-all book about the inner workings of SCOTUS, which was very controversial (and a really good read).  but his career has not suffered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lazarus

note one of the revelations from the book (which is likely the desired end game of this leak, if it came from Roberts):

"Lazarus's book was the first to reveal many formerly unknown facts about Supreme Court's decision-making, such as the fact that Justice Anthony Kennedy changed his vote during consideration of the 1992 abortion case Planned Parenthood v. Casey."

Edited May 3, 2022 by Jive Turkey

[crash_davis 23115]

Just now, Gatorubet said:

30 years of gullible people listening to Rush has a consequence. 

this question has me vexxed. did rush and fox corrupt people's minds or were their minds already corrupted and rush/fox were the spark?

[Fudge Nuggets 19222]

2 hours ago, South Austin said:

I hope some member of the minority in a dissenting opinion calls out those three justices for overturning a case they declared as settled law when they were advocating their nominations to the Court.  Maybe it's considered out of line under unwritten Supreme Court etiquette, but those justices and their bullshit before Congress should be expressly part of a published dissenting opinion.

Man, that will show 'em.

[Brisketexan 105329]

Some people and posts above see this for the incredibly dangerous thing it is.  See the whole forest, not just the tree.  Roe is built on the bedrock of the 14th amendment and the inherent right to privacy.  Alito's opinion doesn't void Roe -- it voids the entire bedrock, with one of the results of that being the demolition of the building of Roe.  But all other buildings standing on that now shattered bedrock are destroyed as well.  With no right to privacy (that is, a right that prevents the government from intruding into your private affairs), the following "buildings" now have no foundation at all (and these are just some examples; there are many more):

1 -- all decisions as to pregnancy/procreation, particularly birth control.  How do we know?  Because Griswold was specifically about this, and is specifically attacked.  You have no right to the personal and private decision of birth control.  That means that the government can regulate it as it wishes.

2 -- your ability to engage in certain sexual activities (do you like blowjobs?  Cool, but you no longer have a right to get one in the privacy of your own home).  Because Lawrence v. Texas was specifically about this, and is specifically attacked.  You have no right to engage in ANY private sexual activity, the government can regulate it however the majority wishes.  To those who would say "most of you don't have to worry about it, we're just gonna make gay blowjobs illegal," 1) what a shitty thing to say, and 2) that's not the point.  The point is that 1) you no longer have a right to a blowjob at home, and 2) the government has the ability to criminalize blowjobs.  That is the world in which you live now.

3 -- your ability to marry who you please.  We know this applies to same-sex marriage, as Obergefell was specifically mentioned.  If you are in a same-sex relationship and are contemplating getting married, you should probably speed that up.  AND, even if you do, will your marriage in a state where it is legal be recognized in a state that bans it?  Will your spouse be able to get benefits when your job transfers you to Texas?

These are just the easy and obvious perils created by the elimination of a right that has been recognized for 60-ish years.  Couple those with the functional voiding of the 4th amendment that has happened over the past few years, and you have all the ingredients required for a police state.  "I received a report that defendants engaged in oral sex from a jealous neighbor.  Based on that information, we conducted a tactical entry into the residence where we discovered defendants engaged in oral sex, evidenced by semen on female defendant's chin.  Both defendants admitted that they have been engaged in the prohibited criminal activity, and we arrested them for that charge.  Further affiant sayeth not."

These are not "slippery" slope fears.  They are citations to actual laws that actually existed that were actually found to be void because they violated a right....that no longer exists.  Don't be distracted by the single (important) building that was just torn down.  Observe the much greater issue of an entire slab of bedrock being turned to quicksand, when countless aspects of our lives have long-rested safely upon that bedrock.

 

And for those who say "well, just vote for a government that won't enact such laws," that is sophistry.  Rights transcend voting trends, that's their entire point.  If such fundamental principles live or die at the whim of an elected government, then they are not rights.  The entire point of a right is that it stands as a bulwark against the vagaries of a capricious government.  I find it FASCINATING that many of the same people who rant like hell against an "authoritarian government," and stockpile weapons and ammo based on that fear....happily cheer on the removal of some of the most fundamental barriers to an actual authoritarian government.

[Ghost of LL 15539]

22 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Counter-counterpoint: economic hardship is a Petri dish for racism. The more secure people feel in their jobs and income, the less likely they are to scapegoat and fear out-groups. 

Bullshit.  Unions were some of the most racist institutions in America.  Several of the most important DOJ enforcement actions were against unions.  Those union members were plenty secure in their jobs and incomes; they just opposed sharing a workplace with . . . well, we both know the term they'd have used.

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't think upholding a ban at 15 weeks is going to be unpopular. Most Americans agree with that. And that puts us right in line with the rest of the developed world. 37 of the 40 European countries have laws that are this restrictive or more.

I never thought the framers or the drafters of the 14th amendment ever in their wildest dream thought the Constitution prohibited states regulating abortions.

One wonders what the Framers thought about the 4th Amendment.

Yeah--that's what I thought.  You can take your originalism and shove it up your ass.

[Gil Bang 26014]

fuck the framers.  They were cool with humans being bought and sold.  They need to be looked at through that lens 100% of the time. 

[David Dennison 18946]

31 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I blame the Democrats for becoming slightly-less-mean-spirited Republicans. The Dems fucked over their former labor base and let the working class deteriorate into an angry populist mob.

Thanks, Bill Clinton.

[crash_davis 23115]

so it sounds like the decision will be left to the states? so each state will decide how fascist they want to be? i'm ok with this. i'm already moving the fuck out of texas when i retire. my daughters want to leave this state. this will deepen the 2 americas which we have been trending towards for awhile.

also, this puts an exclamation point on the assholes who didn't vote and watched from the sidelines. want change? VOTE.

[WhatTheBuck 28798]

2 hours ago, Nivek said:

Maybe we can go back to the old standard of making the rapist marry the rape victim.  That'll learn them!

Is the going rate still fifty shekels of silver?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught in the act, 29 the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives.

 

[wildcat09 29383]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

so it sounds like the decision will be left to the states? so each state will decide how fascist they want to be? i'm ok with this. i'm already moving the fuck out of texas when i retire. my daughters want to leave this state. this will deepen the 2 americas which we have been trending towards for awhile.

also, this puts an exclamation point on the assholes who didn't vote and watched from the sidelines. want change? VOTE.

It'll be left to the states for maybe four years, at most. Alito's opinion already reveals that he thinks a fetus is person. Fetal personhood is on their to do list.

[Homercles 10206]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Is the going rate still fifty shekels of silver?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught in the act, 29 the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives.

 

[Homercles 10206]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It'll be left to the states for maybe four years, at most. Alito's opinion already reveals that he thinks a fetus is person. Fetal personhood is on their to do list.

Hate that I refer to this about once every quarter 

[Vegas64 677]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It'll be left to the states for maybe four years, at most. Alito's opinion already reveals that he thinks a fetus is person. Fetal personhood is on their to do list.

I understand this is a political discussion and as such, there are some assumptions being made philosophically and morally (to which your post I quoted alludes to one)-- is there a more appropriate or different forum or thread to discuss this stuff from a different angle? Asking because I think that would be an interesting conversation as well as one that would yield different forecasting and determinations.

[Sbbruin 21884]

22 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

You are free to start your own message board following with a new philosophy and codified set of moral laws and behaviors.

[JFKFC 4891]

5 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

so it sounds like the decision will be left to the states? so each state will decide how fascist they want to be? i'm ok with this. i'm already moving the fuck out of texas when i retire. my daughters want to leave this state. this will deepen the 2 americas which we have been trending towards for awhile.

also, this puts an exclamation point on the assholes who didn't vote and watched from the sidelines. want change? VOTE.

To me, this is Susan Sarandon day. In 2016 she was a Bernie supporter who hated Hillary. She said we would be worse off with Hillary than Trump. People like her earned this day. 

[crash_davis 23115]

christians/all book clubs and their fucking bible/holy book. what bullshit to take literally and live verbatim to the words vs what bullshit to completely ignore must keep them up at night. oh wait...it's easier to pick and choose to your hearts content while dismissing the other parts.

it's a choose your own adventure book club.

[wildcat09 29383]

3 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I understand this is a political discussion and as such, there are some assumptions being made philosophically and morally (to which your post I quoted alludes to one)-- is there a more appropriate or different forum or thread to discuss this stuff from a different angle? Asking because I think that would be an interesting conversation as well as one that would yield different forecasting and determinations.

I don't see any way that conversation doesn't end up coming right back to a political conversation within like, ten posts. I don't think it's really possible to disentangle the philosophical or moral angle from the political angle here.

[David Dennison 18946]

Just now, JFKFC said:

To me, this is Susan Sarandon day. In 2016 she was a Bernie supporter who hated Hillary. She said we would be worse off with Hillary than Trump. People like her earned this day. 

With a whole lot of help from the Clinton campaign.

They lost to Donald Trump. 

Good grief.

[gmr548 16614]

I never thought the framers or the drafters of the 14th amendment ever in their wildest dream thought the Constitution prohibited states regulating abortions.

The framers didn’t consider black people to be full human beings. The drafters of the 14th amendment did not consider women to be full citizens.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I believe 'highest mortality' is up for debate, but the rest is true.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by MC Fresh Breath
allright, back in for now.

[crash_davis 23115]

1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

The framers didn’t consider black people to be full human beings. The drafters of the 14th amendment did not consider women to be full citizens.

you mean the framers were smart enough to write in a mechanism to allow for modification. you mean a 200 or 2000 year old document shouldn't be the end all be all of everything? that's forward thinking!!!!!

[pyrohornIII 4821]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

With a whole lot of help from the Clinton campaign.

They lost to Donald Trump. 

Good grief.

And they had to invoke superdelegates to get that chance.  Should have been Bern all along.  

[Vegas64 677]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

I don't see any way that conversation doesn't end up coming right back to a political conversation within like, ten posts. I don't think it's really possible to disentangle the philosophical or moral angle from the political angle here.

I see your point. It seems to me that there is a binary, black and white, decision-tree-esque divide that cannot be compromised or met in the middle from a moral or spiritual place: Do you believe a human fetus is a person with a "soul" endowed by a creator ergo abortion is murder or do you believe a human isn't a human until some other point in time?

I find it very difficult to believe that in modern America as we sit here today in 2022 that we have gotten more spiritually conscious and aware and in-touch and that the tide has shifted. From what I have seen of society, the pro-lifers are a minority and one that has been shrinking.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And for those who say "well, just vote for a government that won't enact such laws," that is sophistry.  Rights transcend voting trends, that's their entire point.  If such fundamental principles live or die at the whim of an elected government, then they are not rights.  The entire point of a right is that it stands as a bulwark against the vagaries of a capricious government.  

 

Thank you for this.  I always had a problem with the 'just vote' responses but I couldn't adequately elaborate quite why.  You put it in an eloquent manner I can use. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I see your point. It seems to me that there is a binary, black and white, decision-tree-esque divide that cannot be compromised or met in the middle from a moral or spiritual place: Do you believe a human fetus is a person with a "soul" endowed by a creator ergo abortion is murder or do you believe a human isn't a human until some other point in time?

I find it very difficult to believe that in modern America as we sit here today in 2022 that we have gotten more spiritually conscious and aware and in-touch and that the tide has shifted. From what I have seen of society, the pro-lifers are a minority and one that has been shrinking.

It's been pretty flat for 25 years.

[elfenix 34332]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

Particularly, women that like anal.

"gosh honey you know i would because i love it oh so much but you never know when an officer might bust down the door so i'm afraid we can't," she said, completely deadpan.

[David Dennison 18946]

1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Thank you for this.  I always had a problem with the 'just vote' responses but I couldn't adequately elaborate quite why.  You put it in an eloquent manner I can use. 

Cool, but I'm still just vote.

[SimonBolivar 10959]

3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

you mean the framers were smart enough to write in a mechanism to allow for modification. you mean a 200 or 2000 year old document shouldn't be the end all be all of everything? that's forward thinking!!!!!

It's like buying a house with a foundation then deciding you don't need walls.

[crash_davis 23115]

1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

I see your point. It seems to me that there is a binary, black and white, decision-tree-esque divide that cannot be compromised or met in the middle from a moral or spiritual place: Do you believe a human fetus is a person with a "soul" endowed by a creator ergo abortion is murder or do you believe a human isn't a human until some other point in time?

I find it very difficult to believe that in modern America as we sit here today in 2022 that we have gotten more spiritually conscious and aware and in-touch and that the tide has shifted. From what I have seen of society, the pro-lifers are a minority and one that has been shrinking.

it's the greatest sham ever. republicans have convinced their idiot followers that Jesus was a pull yourself up by the bootstraps, hate people of color, loves guns, loves freedom, and loves capitalism kind of guy.

[WhatTheBuck 28798]

3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

christians/all book clubs and their fucking bible/holy book. what bullshit to take literally and live verbatim to the words vs what bullshit to completely ignore must keep them up at night. oh wait...it's easier to pick and choose to your hearts content while dismissing the other parts.

it's a choose your own adventure book club.

The thing is that nowhere in the Bible is an unborn child viewed as a person with any rights at all. Even after they’re born they were viewed as property. These pro-lifers are barely educated enough in both science and their own scripture to be making intelligent decisions regarding the so-called “right to life.” As if they really give a shit about the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness on the part of actual living, breathing persons. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19222]

3 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

And they had to invoke superdelegates to get that chance.  Should have been Bern all along.  

Hillary would have been one of the best Presidents ever.  Sure she's unlikeable as fuck, but who fucking cares?  She would kick ass and if you didn't get in line, you'd get Vince Foster'ed.

[Fudge Nuggets 19222]

2 minutes ago, elfenix said:

"gosh honey you know i would because i love it oh so much but you never know when an officer might bust down the door and shoot both of us so i'm afraid we can't," she said, completely deadpan.

Added for accuracy.

[JFKFC 4891]

The Democratic Party has always been a bunch of pussies. Even if you vote for them, you know this is true. 

They need to tie a National Abortion Legalization Bill to the next round of government funding. Shut everything down for months, years if necessary. No Compromise. Let the red states who hate the government feel the pain. Don't pay our troops.

Don't blink.

The Dems need to die on this sword. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19142]

 

Glad I live in NYC.  NY enshrined abortion rights into state law in the 2019 Reproductive Health Act.  

Get out of places like Texas, Florida, and anywhere in the South while you can.  New York and California are not bad states to live in (I have lived in both).

Edited May 3, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[David Dennison 18946]

1 minute ago, JFKFC said:

The Democratic Party has always been a bunch of pussies. Even if you vote for them, you know this is true. 

They need to tie a National Abortion Legalization Bill to the next round of government funding. Shut everything down for months, years if necessary. No Compromise. Let the red states who hate the government feel the pain. Don't pay our troops.

Don't blink.

The Dems need to die on this sword. 

This is simply not true of a party that included FDR, LBJ, and Tip O'Neill.

I blame Bill Clinton for the pussification of the Democratic Party. Triangulation my ass.

[Vegas64 677]

Just now, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

Glad I live in NYC.  NY enshrined abortion rights into state law in the 2019 Reproductive Health Act.  

Get out of places like Texas, Florida, and anywhere in the South while you can.  New York and California are not states to live in.  

what now?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Cool, but I'm still just vote.

Cool.