The Supremes

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

what now?

See the edited post.  

[lemonlime 5503]

The amount of men on this board blaming RBG, Susan Sarandon, Susan Collins, and suburban moms for this is telling.  Maybe you could redirect your ire to Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Trump, Bush, McConnell, and the majority of men who vote GQP.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

Glad I live in NYC.  NY enshrined abortion rights into state law in the 2019 Reproductive Health Act.  

Get out of places like Texas, Florida, and anywhere in the South while you can.  New York and California are not bad states to live in (I have lived in both).

 

Yeah, I hate that I'm going to visit friends and family in Texas this summer and contribute at all economically to that State. 

 

Quote

Oregon
Current law: Oregon is the only state in the U.S. that has zero legal restrictions on abortion, according to NARAL Pro-Choice America, meaning that state law does not prohibit abortion care at any stage of pregnancy. The state also passed the Reproductive Health Equity Act in 2017, which requires private health insurers to completely cover abortion with no out-of-pocket cost. Voters also rejected a 2018 ballot measure that would have restricted the use of state money for abortion.

 

But that being said, when they go after this on a Federal level in a few years things will sure get interesting.

 

[Sbbruin 21830]

4 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

Glad I live in NYC.  NY enshrined abortion rights into state law in the 2019 Reproductive Health Act.  

Get out of places like Texas, Florida, and anywhere in the South while you can.  New York and California are not bad states to live in (I have lived in both).

I think both Texas and, to a lesser extent Florida, are moving towards the center.  Better people stay and fight the fight, rather than abandon the states the hard right.  Doesn't really help to have liberals move to liberal states.

[clapclapclap 9000]

11 hours ago, Captainant said:

For context: @Immaculate Vibesand @workswithseedand @clapclapclapwant all those Ukrainian women who were raped by russian soldiers to be forced to carry any fetuses to term.

That's who's demanding to be taken seriously in this discussion.

This is the kind of unhinged, shameless slander that results in most right, middle, and moderate left posters quickly deciding to not bother reading or posting in CR.  

 

Quotes from my post you are responding to:

"Nearly 2/3rds of Americans think abortion should be illegal after the 1st trimester, 80% after the second trimester (though many of those want exceptions, as do I.)  

61% think abortion should be legal in the first trimester.  (As do I.) "

 

Only a slimy liar would somehow twist what I wrote into wanting women raped in war to be forced to give birth.  You're not interested in political debate, you just want to shout down/burn down those who don't completely agree with your political positions.  Seems like CR has devolved into a secular church of maybe 3 dozen control freaks making 80% of the posts.

 

So I'll post the poll again, and note that my position that abortion should be legal in the first trimester, and with the usual common sense exceptions for beyond (rape, incest, actual health risks, etc., though rape and incest are usually resolved in the first trimester) is in line with what a substantial majority of Americans believe, what a majority of Europeans believe, and a majority of the world believes. 

Like it or not, we can't get to a more reasonable abortion policy that the majority of Americans support without overturning RvW.  It might be a somewhat politically bumpy road the next few years getting to a moderate balance, but it will happen, and is the result of trying to legislate through the courts.
 

Edited May 3, 2022 by clapclapclap

[Gil Bang 25922]

So on this thread, it's been mentioned a few times that 70% favor legal abortion.

 

it should be noted, that a big chunk of that 70% will continue to vote for anti-abortion candidates, as long as they shoot guns in their TV commercials.  They care more about their guns than  about women's rights.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

For all the slippery slope talk. That this will be used to attack contraception, gay marriage, gay sex, just read page 5 of the draft.

"Roe's defenders characterize the abortion right as similar to the rights recognized in the past decisions involving matters such as intimate sexual relations, contraception, and marriage, but abortion is fundamentally different, as both Roe and Casey acknowledged..."

[Goofyboy 3269]

I think both Texas and, to a lesser extent Florida, are moving towards the center.  Better people stay and fight the fight, rather than abandon the states the hard right.  Doesn't really help to have liberals move to liberal states.

I’m not hanging around in the US, much less Texas. We are working on our 2 - 3 year emergency escape plan and a longer term plan (7-8 years) if the theocracy takes longer.

[gmr548 16576]

I believe 'highest mortality' is up for debate, but the rest is true.
 

Not in the developed world, it’s not.

[Goredho 17397]

38 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Some people and posts above see this for the incredibly dangerous thing it is.  See the whole forest, not just the tree.  Roe is built on the bedrock of the 14th amendment and the inherent right to privacy.  Alito's opinion doesn't void Roe -- it voids the entire bedrock, with one of the results of that being the demolition of the building of Roe.  But all other buildings standing on that now shattered bedrock are destroyed as well.  With no right to privacy (that is, a right that prevents the government from intruding into your private affairs), the following "buildings" now have no foundation at all (and these are just some examples; there are many more):

1 -- all decisions as to pregnancy/procreation, particularly birth control.  How do we know?  Because Griswold was specifically about this, and is specifically attacked.  You have no right to the personal and private decision of birth control.  That means that the government can regulate it as it wishes.

2 -- your ability to engage in certain sexual activities (do you like blowjobs?  Cool, but you no longer have a right to get one in the privacy of your own home).  Because Lawrence v. Texas was specifically about this, and is specifically attacked.  You have no right to engage in ANY private sexual activity, the government can regulate it however the majority wishes.  To those who would say "most of you don't have to worry about it, we're just gonna make gay blowjobs illegal," 1) what a shitty thing to say, and 2) that's not the point.  The point is that 1) you no longer have a right to a blowjob at home, and 2) the government has the ability to criminalize blowjobs.  That is the world in which you live now.

3 -- your ability to marry who you please.  We know this applies to same-sex marriage, as Obergefell was specifically mentioned.  If you are in a same-sex relationship and are contemplating getting married, you should probably speed that up.  AND, even if you do, will your marriage in a state where it is legal be recognized in a state that bans it?  Will your spouse be able to get benefits when your job transfers you to Texas?

These are just the easy and obvious perils created by the elimination of a right that has been recognized for 60-ish years.  Couple those with the functional voiding of the 4th amendment that has happened over the past few years, and you have all the ingredients required for a police state.  "I received a report that defendants engaged in oral sex from a jealous neighbor.  Based on that information, we conducted a tactical entry into the residence where we discovered defendants engaged in oral sex, evidenced by semen on female defendant's chin.  Both defendants admitted that they have been engaged in the prohibited criminal activity, and we arrested them for that charge.  Further affiant sayeth not."

These are not "slippery" slope fears.  They are citations to actual laws that actually existed that were actually found to be void because they violated a right....that no longer exists.  Don't be distracted by the single (important) building that was just torn down.  Observe the much greater issue of an entire slab of bedrock being turned to quicksand, when countless aspects of our lives have long-rested safely upon that bedrock.

 

And for those who say "well, just vote for a government that won't enact such laws," that is sophistry.  Rights transcend voting trends, that's their entire point.  If such fundamental principles live or die at the whim of an elected government, then they are not rights.  The entire point of a right is that it stands as a bulwark against the vagaries of a capricious government.  I find it FASCINATING that many of the same people who rant like hell against an "authoritarian government," and stockpile weapons and ammo based on that fear....happily cheer on the removal of some of the most fundamental barriers to an actual authoritarian government.

You need to publish this in other places.

[Muny_Tex 293]

Indeed Pelosi should start pushing legislation concerning this.  Not only the rape and incest clauses, but also for reform and bolstering of programs like Planned Parenthood. 

I agree with majority of your sentiment, but I think you are very misguided about Planned Parenthood with respect to prenatal care…in the sense that those services are completely non-existent (at least at the Central Texas branches)…unless you’re advocating wholesale reform for that organization as a starting point, which I believe is sorely needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HenryJames 66038]

4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

"I received a report that defendants engaged in oral sex from a jealous neighbor.  Based on that information, we conducted a tactical entry into the residence where we discovered defendants engaged in oral sex, evidenced by semen on female defendant's chin.  Both defendants admitted that they have been engaged in the prohibited criminal activity, and we arrested them for that charge.  Further affiant sayeth not."

Worst. Penthouse Forum. Ever.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

9 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

This is the kind of unhinged, shameless slander that results in most right, middle, and moderate left posters quickly deciding to not bother reading or posting in CR.  

 

Quotes from my post you are responding to:

"Nearly 2/3rds of Americans think abortion should be illegal after the 1st trimester, 80% after the second trimester (though many of those want exceptions, as do I.)  

61% think abortion should be legal in the first trimester.  (As do I.) "

 

Only a slimy liar would somehow twist what I wrote into wanting women raped in war to be forced to give birth.  You're not interested in political debate, you just want to shout down/burn down those who don't completely agree with your political positions.  Seems like CR has devolved into a secular church of maybe 3 dozen control freaks making 80% of the posts.

 

So I'll post the poll again, and note that my position that abortion should be legal in the first trimester, and with the usual common sense exceptions for beyond (rape, incest, actual health risks, etc., though rape and incest are usually resolved in the first trimester) is in line with what a substantial majority of Americans believe, what a majority of Europeans believe, and a majority of the world believes. 

Like it or not, we can't get to a more reasonable abortion policy that the majority of Americans support without overturning RvW.  It might be a somewhat politically bumpy road the next few years getting to a moderate balance, but it will happen, and is the result of trying to legislate through the courts.
 

Go fuck yourself.  Seriously.  In that same post, you said the following:

Quote

Also, LOL at the predictable gaslighting that anyone other than a hardcore Dem leaked this.  It's meant to intimidate Roberts, and maybe another justice.  Hoping for the usual "I didn't get my way so lets violently riot" response from the emo left.

Tell us how you really fucking feel.  Also, it's "let's", you disingenuous cunt.

Edited May 3, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Pablo 494]

2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Last week when I made my post that Collins should "eat shit", I originally posted "eat a bullet".  But I didn't want to wind up on some FBI watchlist so I edited it.

I'm glad to see others have more courage than I have.

I wondered about that too.  too late to edit it now, i guess.

[Js1 85296]

For like 5 fucking minutes, can y'all stop blaming Hillary/RBG/Bill Clinton/the Democrats/Nancy Pelosi and actually direct your anger where it belongs?  Because continuing the "Democrats are big pussies, thanks a lot Hillary!" bullshit is just giving the GOP a huge out. 

Direct blame and anger where it belongs.

 

/goodbye

[Vegas64 673]

10 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

So on this thread, it's been mentioned a few times that 70% favor legal abortion.

 

it should be noted, that a big chunk of that 70% will continue to vote for anti-abortion candidates, as long as they shoot guns in their TV commercials.  They care more about their guns than  about women's rights.  

Polls have consistently found that a majority of Americans oppose overturning Roe v. Wade. In a Marquette University Law School poll from January, 72% were opposed to striking it down, while 28% were in favor

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This is simply not true of a party that included FDR, LBJ, and Tip O'Neill.

I blame Bill Clinton for the pussification of the Democratic Party. Triangulation my ass.

Terrible take. 
 

The current embodiment of the Democratic Party resembles the Democratic Party of those times as much as the GQP resembles the days of Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Polls have consistently found that a majority of Americans oppose overturning Roe v. Wade. In a Marquette University Law School poll from January, 72% were opposed to striking it down, while 28% were in favor

I bet the majority polled have no idea what that even means.  Many probably think it means abortions would be illegal everywhere.

You have to poll specifics.

[Goredho 17397]

14 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

Glad I live in NYC.  NY enshrined abortion rights into state law in the 2019 Reproductive Health Act.  

Get out of places like Texas, Florida, and anywhere in the South while you can.  New York and California are not bad states to live in (I have lived in both).

Colorado has similar laws, and I moved here for similar reasons on a different issue (public education effectively being denied to my kids).

Sadly, driving non-conservatives out of red states is all part of the plan.  Hell, that's probably more important to a lot of conservatives than saving any unborn fetuses.

[royiv 9272]

Just now, Js1 said:

For like 5 fucking minutes, can y'all stop blaming Hillary/RBG/Bill Clinton/the Democrats/Nancy Pelosi and actually direct your anger where it belongs?  Because continuing the "Democrats are big pussies, thanks a lot Hillary!" bullshit is just giving the GOP a huge out. 

Direct blame and anger where it belongs.

 

/goodbye

There's plenty of blame to go around and the democrats should be held just as accountable as the GQP. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

10 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

For all the slippery slope talk. That this will be used to attack contraception, gay marriage, gay sex, just read page 5 of the draft.

"Roe's defenders characterize the abortion right as similar to the rights recognized in the past decisions involving matters such as intimate sexual relations, contraception, and marriage, but abortion is fundamentally different, as both Roe and Casey acknowledged..."

I think you are 100% wrong on this.  With Alito and Thomas, they are going to go after everything.  That being said, you have actually been reasonable in this thread so far, unlike some of the other posters. So I commend you for that.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

9 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Not in the developed world, it’s not.

Fair enough, I wasn't sure on it, so hesitated to possibly be promoting something false.  Felt the idea of the tweet overall was worth it.

['stache 21800]

I cannot fathom how many of you are saying that this will somehow motivate women to vote against the gqp. It is seemingly acknowledged in many contexts on this site that many women hate other women. This is especially true of the hypocritical churchy type.

"AOC and Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton are pro Roe? Fuck those bitches."

"Only loose ungodly sluts need abortions. Fuck those bitches."

"Rape exception? They were probably drunk in short skirts, what did they expect? Fuck those bitches."

And so on and so forth. What is always lost in all of this is how rare abortion is, so most women have never had to contemplate that choice. The right as a monolith lack empathy, conservative women especially on this issue. And the handful who have contemplated it or even had an abortion don't care, because hypocrisy is a golden rule of the right.

We are fucked. This is just the beginning.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think you are 100% wrong on this.  With Alito and Thomas, they are going to go after everything.  That being said, you have actually been reasonable in this thread so far, unlike some of the other posters. So I commend you for that.

What they may want is not relevant.  It takes 5.

[Fudge Nuggets 19189]

16 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I think both Texas and, to a lesser extent Florida, are moving towards the center.  Better people stay and fight the fight, rather than abandon the states the hard right.  Doesn't really help to have liberals move to liberal states.

I don’t see you packing up the boat and sailing over this way. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

What they may want is not relevant.  It takes 5.

Is there anything that you see about those 5 that makes you think they would vote any different?  Because I do not.  We have settled case law and three of those 5 (two of which who should not be on the court, but I digress) that those three agreed were settled case law in their hearings and said they would not overturn.  

This court has lost all legitimacy.  

['stache 21800]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

For all the slippery slope talk. That this will be used to attack contraception, gay marriage, gay sex, just read page 5 of the draft.

"Roe's defenders characterize the abortion right as similar to the rights recognized in the past decisions involving matters such as intimate sexual relations, contraception, and marriage, but abortion is fundamentally different, as both Roe and Casey acknowledged..."

At least three of them also said that overturning a 50 year precedent on fundamental rights would not happen, yet here we are. You know goddamned well gay marriage is next, and you'll be drowing in lib tears, because that's really all this is about. You know you don't give a shit about a fetus' life, especially once it's popped out. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

At least three of them also said that overturning a 50 year precedent on fundamental rights would not happen, yet here we are. You know goddamned well gay marriage is next, and you'll be drowing in lib tears, because that's really all this is about. You know you don't give a shit about a fetus' life, especially once it's popped out. 

I'll bet you any amount of cash you want to bet Obergefell is not overturned in the next 5 years.

[Captainant 27640]

14 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

This is the kind of unhinged, shameless slander that results in most right, middle, and moderate left posters quickly deciding to not bother reading or posting in CR.  

 

Quotes from my post you are responding to:

"Nearly 2/3rds of Americans think abortion should be illegal after the 1st trimester, 80% after the second trimester (though many of those want exceptions, as do I.)  

61% think abortion should be legal in the first trimester.  (As do I.) "

 

Only a slimy liar would somehow twist what I wrote into wanting women raped in war to be forced to give birth.  You're not interested in political debate, you just want to shout down/burn down those who don't completely agree with your political positions.  Seems like CR has devolved into a secular church of maybe 3 dozen control freaks making 80% of the posts.

 

So I'll post the poll again, and note that my position that abortion should be legal in the first trimester, and with the usual common sense exceptions for beyond (rape, incest, actual health risks, etc., though rape and incest are usually resolved in the first trimester) is in line with what a substantial majority of Americans believe, what a majority of Europeans believe, and a majority of the world believes. 

Like it or not, we can't get to a more reasonable abortion policy that the majority of Americans support without overturning RvW.  It might be a somewhat politically bumpy road the next few years getting to a moderate balance, but it will happen, and is the result of trying to legislate through the courts.
 

It doesn't matter what the majority of Americans want. It matters what the laws are on the books, should Roe be struck down. In Texas, that results in a complete abortion ban - except in rare cases where the mother's health is at risk.

I'm simply confronting you with the reality and consequences of the position you're staking out. Nuance is dead. You don't get just a little bit of the fascism. You get the whole fucking thing. Like it or not, the republican party's main objective over the last decade has been to throw sand in the legislative gears to prevent the passage of new laws. This is the desired end state - an acknowledgement of its imperfection with zero existing path to address that imperfection.

All the while hurting women and rolling back their bodily autonomy, all because sky daddy says so. Fucking christian taliban.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2822]

19 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

The amount of men on this board blaming RBG, Susan Sarandon, Susan Collins, and suburban moms for this is telling.  Maybe you could redirect your ire to Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Trump, Bush, McConnell, and the majority of men who vote GQP.

I can simplify it to anyone who votes for GQP and particularly those who don't vote against GQP. 

[Sbbruin 21830]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I don’t see you packing up the boat and sailing over this way. 

Nope, just going to find some deserted island in the middle of nowhere and live in blissful ignorance.

[Skipper 6130]

56 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

That kid has his head on straight. I am a civil rights absolutist but lawyers can wring themselves into knots to justify their behavior. They’re helping to keep Putin’s rattleclap war machine puffing along so it can bomb hospitals. Kremlin-tied oligarchs don’t have a right to BigLaw representation.

He quit less than a week after the war started dude. It's not exactly simple to unwind ongoing representation on a whim.  Particularly when firms have Moscow offices.   It's completely ignorant of how the business world works.   Pretty much every large firm is now out of Russia by this point or are in the process of doing so.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2822]

8 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Polls have consistently found that a majority of Americans oppose overturning Roe v. Wade. In a Marquette University Law School poll from January, 72% were opposed to striking it down, while 28% were in favor

Polls were flawed.  It should have said "Are you in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade if it would make the Libs cry."

[Captainant 27640]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I'll bet you any amount of cash you want to bet Obergefell is not overturned in the next 5 years.

If it's overturned in 10 years, what then? Hooray for sack! You managed to make your fascism just slow enough for people not to notice until it's too late? 

[C-Man 27197]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

Nope, just going to find some deserted island in the middle of nowhere and live in blissful ignorance.

That's my plan. Fuck the USA at that point.

['stache 21800]

Just now, Captainant said:

It doesn't matter what the majority of Americans want. It matters what the laws are on the books, should Roe be struck down. In Texas, that results in a complete abortion ban - except in rare cases where the mother's health is at risk.

I'm simply confronting you with the reality and consequences of the position you're staking out. Nuance is dead. You don't get just a little bit of the fascism. You get the whole fucking thing. Like it or not, the republican party's main objective over the last decade has been to throw sand in the legislative gears to prevent the passage of new laws. This is the desired end state - an acknowledgement of its imperfection with zero existing path to address that imperfection.

All the while hurting women and rolling back their bodily autonomy, all because sky daddy says so. Fucking christian taliban.

The 50 democrats in the senate represent 41 million more people than the 50 republican senators. 

The two senators from Wyoming represnet 550,000 people, the two from California represent 37 million.

Yeah, the majority doesn't matter in this country, never has. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2822]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Nope, just going to find some deserted island in the middle of nowhere and live in blissful ignorance.

"I just spent three years on a deserted island and those five LPs didn't do me a damn bit of good." -- Norm MacDonald

[Sbbruin 21830]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

That's my plan. Fuck the USA at that point.

Find your own island.  I will defend mine to the death.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If it's overturned in 10 years, what then? Hooray for sack! You managed to make your fascism just slow enough for people not to notice until it's too late? 

I have supported gays' Constitutional right to marry for about 20 years.  Long before Obama did.

['stache 21800]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I'll bet you any amount of cash you want to bet Obergefell is not overturned in the next 5 years.

It might take longer than 5 years, maybe up to 10, but it's going to happen. Name your price, I'll take your money, but we all know you'll disappear by then.

[crash_davis 23103]

they are investigating who leaked this. i'm sure the person who leaked this knows he/she probably will be discovered and that at the very least, his/her law career is over. 

he/she is the real hero. sadly it's not going to change anything.

Edited May 3, 2022 by crash_davis

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The 50 democrats in the senate represent 41 million more people than the 50 republican senators. 

The two senators from Wyoming represnet 550,000 people, the two from California represent 37 million.

Yeah, the majority doesn't matter in this country, never has. 

And never was intended to.

[Gap03 3304]

5 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Nope, just going to find some deserted island in the middle of nowhere and live in blissful ignorance.

Pro tip - look for something with a scooch more elevation in light of Climate thread.

['stache 21800]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

And never was intended to.

It was also never intended that one state could have 37 million more people than another. That's why things sometimes need to change over hundreds of years.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I have supported gays' Constitutional right to marry for about 20 years.  Long before Obama did.

What you may want is not relevant.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

1 minute ago, Gap03 said:

Pro tip - look for something with a scooch more elevation in light of Climate thread.

Also I'd imagine that potable water would be nice, but I'm no island expert.

Edited May 3, 2022 by SimonBolivar

[Nivek 16923]

43 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

With a whole lot of help from the Clinton campaign.

They lost to Donald Trump. 

Good grief.

Oh bullshit.  Her campaign was fine.  The problem was the idiot voters who didn't vote for competency and instead voted for a reality tv business man.  Anyone who watched the debates and thought Trump was fine bears responsibility for the damage to the country.   It wasn't Hillary's fault people are morons. 

[Captainant 27640]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

I have supported gays' Constitutional right to marry for about 20 years.  Long before Obama did.

You just donate to, campaign for, vote for, and defend politicians who want to roll back their rights. But you totally support their right to marriage!

Fuck outta here.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

It was also never intended that one state could have 37 million more people than another. That's why things sometimes need to change over hundreds of years.

That's why when all the states signed on, they also agreed to a process for amending the document.

[hookem2010 2624]

8 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Nope, just going to find some deserted island in the middle of nowhere and live in blissful ignorance.

I hope you're armybrat old, because those places are all going to be underwater soon.