The Supremes

[Lurch 5930]

I have one major, major beef with the affirmative action ruling.
It happened one year too late.
The NYTimes had a guest op-ed piece that absolutely nailed it for me:
I Teach at an Elite College. Here’s a Look Inside the Racial Gaming of Admissions. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/29/opinion/college-admissions-affirmative-action.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
In short, Chinese people, who are hardly a favored race in the USA, were more discriminated against than any single race in affirmative action. And my son, who is half Chinese and has a Chinese surname, found himself locked out of every school he applied to, despite having a weighted gpa of 4.4, a couple swimming world records, and a state championship in marching band (of all things).
The solution is, and always has been, to provide affirmative action based on economic background, not race. This piece was just the start, but the Times' op-ed board has weighed heavily in that direction since. And they're absolutely right.

Terribly sorry your amazing, talented kid has an incredible life ahead of him in the lower half of the top .1%. Fight the power

[Hefeweizen 5311]

I’m sorry but I’m calling bullshit on a swimmer with world records being locked out of Jack shit.  No need for hyperbole.

And yeah we all want the best for our kids but they can’t all be the best.  My daughter didn’t get into Yale or Caltech or Stanford and that’s just fine.

[Satchel 6938]

3 hours ago, Rimbo said:

I have one major, major beef with the affirmative action ruling.

It happened one year too late.

The NYTimes had a guest op-ed piece that absolutely nailed it for me:

I Teach at an Elite College. Here’s a Look Inside the Racial Gaming of Admissions. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/29/opinion/college-admissions-affirmative-action.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

In short, Chinese people, who are hardly a favored race in the USA, were more discriminated against than any single race in affirmative action. And my son, who is half Chinese and has a Chinese surname, found himself locked out of every school he applied to, despite having a weighted gpa of 4.4, a couple swimming world records, and a state championship in marching band (of all things).

The solution is, and always has been, to provide affirmative action based on economic background, not race. This piece was just the start, but the Times' op-ed board has weighed heavily in that direction since. And they're absolutely right.

I don’t understand why so many of us refuse to acknowledge that race still matters in America.

[StassneyHorn 6575]

State championship in band? So look at how good he can walk to music?

Edited July 1, 2023 by StassneyHorn

[tchookem 3900]

State championship in band? So look at how good he can walk to music?

That Hebron band is no joke.

I say that with all sincerity.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

27 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

State championship in band? So look at how good he can walk to music?

Hey my band came in 2nd at state so I had to go to Baylor.

Edited July 1, 2023 by SimonBolivar

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

oh fuck don't make this the band nerd thread. take that somewhere else.

[Horn Dog 9818]

Edited July 1, 2023 by Horn Dog

[TwiceHorn 31452]

23 hours ago, HonkeyVape said:

You are right on. And at the same time, one must confront that believing homosexuality is a sin, while having deep empathy and love for the sinner, and not wanting to encourage sin and be complicit in the social morass and further denigration of society IS a legitimate religious (orthodox, maybe?) view, whether you agree with it or not.

I think this ruling is asking demanding of the dissenting to view that the unalienable right of religious freedom here looks for them a lot like the old yarn of "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Disapprove and disagree and, heck, even mock and denigrate and vilify it and hope they fail miserably-- but respect understand the rights of those who believe it and that they operating within those rights, per the law of the land. 

 

Here's the thing.  Even if that is a legitimate religious belief, retrograde and questionable as it may be.

Once you engage yourself in commerce, even in a commercial activity that involves expression, you surrender your right to discriminate.  Don't want to have to work for people you disapprove of, don't hang out your shingle.  Sure, no shirt, no shoes, no service; also no deadbeats, but if you intend to discriminate, better not say a word about it and suffer the consequences if you do.

[jimmyjazz 45903]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

I’m sorry but I’m calling bullshit on a swimmer with world records being locked out of Jack shit.  No need for hyperbole.

I assumed they were some sort of age group records.  Any HS kid with an actual world record that tops national/Olympic competition would cruise to a full ride at dozens of schools, including UT, Stanford, etc.

[C-Man 27218]

[tx 3 putt 76911]

So colleges can deny lgbtq hs students ?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

there are no bigger chaos agents in this world right now than this scotus. absolutely disastrous 

[Pescado_Rojo 19416]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I assumed they were some sort of age group records.  Any HS kid with an actual world record that tops national/Olympic competition would cruise to a full ride at dozens of schools, including UT, Stanford, etc.

This. Hell, even if they ARE age group records at 15-16 or 17-18, they would still have their choice of schools. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

So let's see if I understand this.  An undisclosed benefactor paid off Kavanaugh's 200k in credit card debt, his 1.2 million dollar mortgage, and his 92k country club balance right before he became a supreme court justice, and yet he voted AGAINST student loan forgiveness? Is my understanding correct?

[Rimbo 25921]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

State championship in band? So look at how good he can walk to music?

Hahahaha... you poor naive thing.

lemme put it this way... after summer practices, the band members were limping more than the football team was

But anyway, you get full bonus points for being a cunt about it. 😁

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

Hahahaha... you poor naive thing.

lemme put it this way... after summer practices, the band members were limping more than the football team was

But anyway, you get full bonus points for being a cunt about it. 😁

[Rimbo 25921]

2 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

I’m sorry but I’m calling bullshit on a swimmer with world records being locked out of Jack shit.  No need for hyperbole.

And yeah we all want the best for our kids but they can’t all be the best.  My daughter didn’t get into Yale or Caltech or Stanford and that’s just fine.

 

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I assumed they were some sort of age group records.  Any HS kid with an actual world record that tops national/Olympic competition would cruise to a full ride at dozens of schools, including UT, Stanford, etc.

Nope. Not per grade. He did marathon open-ocean relay swims. They held world records for attempting swims that had never been done before.

It's an old trick; if you can't be the best, be the first.

That's him at 18 seconds in.

BUT...

The Common Application doesn't allow you to put down anything prior to 9th grade. So ... no credit 🤷

[Neonmoon 38129]

11 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

So let's see if I understand this.  An undisclosed benefactor paid off Kavanaugh's 200k in credit card debt, his 1.2 million dollar mortgage, and his 92k country club balance right before he became a supreme court justice, and yet he voted AGAINST student loan forgiveness? Is my understanding correct?

Wait till you hear about Thomas and affirmative action 

[StassneyHorn 6575]

13 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Hahahaha... you poor naive thing.

lemme put it this way... after summer practices, the band members were limping more than the football team was

But anyway, you get full bonus points for being a cunt about it. 😁

Give me the full points

[Lurch 5930]

Hahahaha... you poor naive thing.
lemme put it this way... after summer practices, the band members were limping more than the football team was

I say this as a four year marching band nerd in HS… dear god stop saying this (I’m presuming you’ve used this line in the real world many times too). It’s not the badge of honor you seem to think it is

[Rimbo 25921]

1 minute ago, StassneyHorn said:

Give me the full points

So here's what the SCSBOA 2A champs looked like in 2019. Neat fact... the soloist only had one hand. And he has to switch from one instrument to another.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5L3cWsQnHQBGiwGs8

[Rimbo 25921]

1 minute ago, Lurch said:

I say this as a four year marching band nerd in HS… dear god stop saying this (I’m presuming you’ve used this line in the real world many times too). It’s not the badge of honor you seem to think it is

Hey, I was one, too. And I thought it was a complete joke for a PE credit. Because it was. And I thought my HS band was pretty damn good, too.

But no. I had no idea. The kids in my son's HS band fucking earned that PE credit ...

[jimmyjazz 45903]

24 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Nope. Not per grade. He did marathon open-ocean relay swims. They held world records for attempting swims that had never been done before.

It's an old trick; if you can't be the best, be the first.

Seems pretty cool to me.  I have no idea how it might translate to collegiate swim scholarships, but hey, they did it.

[StassneyHorn 6575]

13 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

So here's what the SCSBOA 2A champs looked like in 2019. Neat fact... the soloist only had one hand. And he has to switch from one instrument to another.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5L3cWsQnHQBGiwGs8

I do not give one flying fuck about this link I have not clicked. I have an uncle that has led multiple 5A and 6A bands in the Cypress area to championships and is a UIL judge. Your limp wrist kid doesn’t impress me more than any of his stupid ass stories 

Edited July 1, 2023 by StassneyHorn

[Anastasis 23469]

What the fuck is going on here?

[StassneyHorn 6575]

Some band nerds dad is pissed about his beta boy not getting into an alpha college.

[Rimbo 25921]

Hey, if I do go on about the Rimbino, it's because he's one of my favorite topics.

And @StassneyHorn thinks he's still in high school. Probably peaked in high school, too.

Back to the topic at hand.

Race-based affirmative action was hypocritical at best in nearly every implementation of it, because it marginalized groups (like the Chinese) that were historically marginalized. And even among the groups it was supposed to benefit, you were more likely to benefit from it if you didn't need the extra consideration -- i.e., you were already rich or a "legacy."

It always, always made more sense to do affirmative action based on economic status rather than strictly on race; not only does it immediately address racial disparities -- I mean, that's the whole point, right? Marginalized races were locked out economically, first and foremost, which led to educational differences -- but it self-adjusts over time. The people who actually need the extra consideration get it, and you don't

Edited July 1, 2023 by Rimbo

[jimmyjazz 45903]

34 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What the fuck is going on here?

Watch it, or I'll start in on my time with one of the most legendary drum & bugle corps.

[StassneyHorn 6575]

I peak every morning hitting an overhead bicep pose at 26”

[TwiceHorn 31452]

I still dislike the characterization of "the law" as "Calvinball."

To the extent that it is, it has thus always been.  John Marshall out front told you in 1803: 

 

It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Courts must decide on the operation of each.

Heretofore, though, the court has mostly been characterized by incrementalism and a fear of appearing partisan, while also doing partisan work around the edges.

And I think that article above that describes many of the current justices as "movement" rather than purely partisan is dead on.  They seem to think that masks their partisanship.  It's kind of odd that until recently, modes of interpretation were considered mostly of academic interest and not truly governing the outcome of most cases.  And almost everyone agreed that every mode of interpretation falls apart at some level and fails to supply answers.  This idea that originalism is the only and true mode is  . . . something.  That just makes the "calvinball" more transparent, but it's never been anything else.

 

[Dahobbs 17534]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I still dislike the characterization of "the law" as "Calvinball."

To the extent that it is, it has thus always been.  John Marshall out front told you in 1803: 

 

It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Courts must decide on the operation of each.

Heretofore, though, the court has mostly been characterized by incrementalism and a fear of appearing partisan, while also doing partisan work around the edges.

And I think that article above that describes many of the current justices as "movement" rather than purely partisan is dead on.  They seem to think that masks their partisanship.  It's kind of odd that until recently, modes of interpretation were considered mostly of academic interest and not truly governing the outcome of most cases.  And almost everyone agreed that every mode of interpretation falls apart at some level and fails to supply answers.  This idea that originalism is the only and true mode is  . . . something.  That just makes the "calvinball" more transparent, but it's never been anything else.

 

I think precedent mattered more before this court. It clearly has little value now. 

[TwiceHorn 31452]

28 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I think precedent mattered more before this court. It clearly has little value now. 

Yeah, that's fair.  Kind of encompassed by the incrementalism comment.

Certainly, the Supreme Court isn't wholly bound by its own precedent and thank God for that.  But this movement shit is for the birds.

[Satchel 6938]

4 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

So let's see if I understand this.  An undisclosed benefactor paid off Kavanaugh's 200k in credit card debt, his 1.2 million dollar mortgage, and his 92k country club balance right before he became a supreme court justice, and yet he voted AGAINST student loan forgiveness? Is my understanding correct?

But Kavanaugh is in no way beholden to the people who made him liquid. Just ask him.

[tx 3 putt 76911]

2 minutes ago, Satchel said:

But Kavanaugh is in no way beholden to the people who made him liquid. Just ask him.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13584]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/colorado-web-designer-court-filings/index.html

Has this been discussed? If this is true, how does this even happen? 

Quote

In an interview with CNN Friday, Stewart said that he “did not submit a request” to the company, 303 Creative, and is a “happily married man to a woman of 15 years.”

“I don’t know Mike,” Stewart said. “I’ve never asked anybody to design a website for me, so it’s all very strange. I certainly didn’t contact her, and whatever the information in that request is, is fake.”

Stewart, who previously worked for CNN, said that he is a web designer himself, and that “it would make zero sense to hire a web designer when I can do that for myself.”

 

[HenryJames 66045]

Standing is gay.

[Neonmoon 38129]

17 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/colorado-web-designer-court-filings/index.html

Has this been discussed? If this is true, how does this even happen? 

 

Do you think any of the bought and paid for Supremes give a shit about facts? 

[Sawbonz 27547]

39 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

happily married man to a woman of 15 years.”

[Biff Tannen 45676]

9 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

You mean, was I cool?  Yeah. 

[SubliminalHorn 6786]

On 6/30/2023 at 1:07 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

lighten up Francis. I was saying that a speech itself isn't enough. I wasn't expecting a hand delivered note to everyone today. 

No one is going to read a letter

[HenryJames 66045]

 

[TwiceHorn 31452]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Pretty much, yeah.  

As seems pretty typical, a strategy mostly developed by liberal leaning groups diabolically perfected and reduced to absurdity by arch-conservatives.

[safe sex 11711]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Pretty much, yeah.  

As seems pretty typical, a strategy mostly developed by liberal leaning groups diabolically perfected and reduced to absurdity by arch-conservatives.

Not that I don't believe you, but i would be curious to know what decisions have occurred from fake lawsuits sent by liberal-leaning groups.

Edited July 2, 2023 by safe sex

[elfenix 34232]

here's the the dark money owned supreme court works:

leonard leo tells clarence or alito what his benefactors want out of a particular case.

clarito writes it into a dissent.

leo's organizations find (and back) plaintiffs for loser cases in district court where the point is to hurry up and lose to get the appeals process started.  which in this 303 case almost certainly helped hurry things along to the extent no one bothered checking whether the shit 303 claimed happened ever happened.

eventually it gets up to the supreme court where the supreme court claims it isn't just now wholly inventing something, citing back to the clarito dissent.

Edited July 2, 2023 by elfenix

[TwiceHorn 31452]

29 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Not that I don't believe you, but i would be curious to know what decisions have occurred from fake lawsuits sent by liberal-leaning groups.

The fake part, and the "fake standing" is the diabolically perfected part.

But "test cases" to obtain from the judiciary what is unobtainable from the legislature is a strategy developed generally by "the left."

[Brisketexan 105097]

The fake part, and the "fake standing" is the diabolically perfected part.
But "test cases" to obtain from the judiciary what is unobtainable from the legislature is a strategy developed generally by "the left."

You forgot to add: a strategy that followed and was bound by rules and norms ( like standing, and requiring an actual case or controversy). It’s a gaming of the system, but the words “the system” remain really important.
The “conservatives” are now dispensing with those words together and issuing advisory opinions on made up cases.
It’s like any number of legal trick plays in football; they’re legal, and the left has run them. So in response, the “conservatives” are lining up 15 men on the LOS and using three footballs simultaneously. Then, when every rational person cries foul, they cry like the little petulant bitch babies that they are “you didn’t complain when the evil LEFT ran trick plays!”
It’s more than intellectually dishonest; it reflects complete contempt for a rules-based system. There is a line between “law” and “ipse dixit edict.” If Roberts cares so much about the Court’s integrity, maybe stop obliterating that line.

[TwiceHorn 31452]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You forgot to add: a strategy that followed and was bound by rules and norms ( like standing, and requiring an actual case or controversy). It’s a gaming of the system, but the words “the system” remain really important.
The “conservatives” are now dispensing with those words together and issuing advisory opinions on made up cases.
It’s like any number of legal trick plays in football; they’re legal, and the left has run them. So in response, the “conservatives” are lining up 15 men on the LOS and using three footballs simultaneously. Then, when every rational person cries foul, they cry like the little petulant bitch babies that they are “you didn’t complain when the evil LEFT ran trick plays!”
It’s more than intellectually dishonest; it reflects complete contempt for a rules-based system. There is a line between “law” and “ipse dixit edict.” If Roberts cares so much about the Court’s integrity, maybe stop obliterating that line.

I think I covered that with "diabolically perfected and reduced to absurdity."  

It's also occurred to me that the jurisdiction of the federal courts has become a little too open.  I suppose that comes with the excess of federal legislation that creates more federal questions.

But a lot of this stuff used to have to percolate through the state courts.

I imagine that's covered in Vladeck's recent book.  I need to check that out.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13584]

37 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The fake part, and the "fake standing" is the diabolically perfected part.

But "test cases" to obtain from the judiciary what is unobtainable from the legislature is a strategy developed generally by "the left."

I think safe sex was asking which SC cases have been ruled on in which basic, fundamental, George Santos-level "facts" were in dispute. 

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

17 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

So let's see if I understand this.  An undisclosed benefactor paid off Kavanaugh's 200k in credit card debt, his 1.2 million dollar mortgage, and his 92k country club balance right before he became a supreme court justice, and yet he voted AGAINST student loan forgiveness? Is my understanding correct?

Correct. Thomas voted against it too after a billionaire benefactor covered the cost of tuition for his grandnephew. Never mind how he personally benefitted from affirmative action to get into college.