Midway (Nov 2019)

[Chad Fuck 17808]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I don't have anything to add to the SBD frontward/backward facing tail gunner seat debate other than this little known fact:

If you reverse sit on a toilet while taking a dump, the top of the water tank can serve as a convenient lunch tray.

Easy in, easy out.

 

[Chad Fuck 17808]

@Goredho:  Did you learn that in the brown-water Navy?

[Goredho 17422]

Just a practical tip for soldiers or citizens.

[Drew 2538]

I enjoyed it...much better than Pearl Harbor.  Even the wife was entertained.  Good flick for a matinee or discount night for sure.

[Macanudo 13017]

The Dauntless had flight controls for the tail gunner?  Now there is something I did not know. 

[Gil Bang 26048]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2013/may/rear-seat-gunners-midway

 

The rear cockpit of the SBD was equipped with emergency flight controls, as well as a seat that could be pivoted to face forward or backward. Carter urged his rear gunner to learn as much about flying as he could. That way, if Carter was wounded or killed in action, Moore would have a fighting chance to return to the Hornet. An auxiliary stick was stowed against the bulkhead on the port side of the rear cockpit. Moore would “ship,” or engage, it and fly the plane. He could fly straight and level, execute turns, and even practice landings in the air. He had rudder pedals and elevator and throttle controls, but no access to the flaps or landing gear, so an actual landing would have been a dubious prospect. Moore had never heard of a rear gunner attempting to belly-land or water-ditch an SBD, but thinks it could have been done.

[chesthair 231]

Went to see it with my kid the other day.  He is a big ww2 buff as well.  Never watched any trailers or read anything, went in clear headed.  It felt very much like pearl harbor and i hated the guy that played Best.  I did enjoy the cinematography and that they kept the story pretty straight.  Side note, I am so glad every theater near me now have craft beer.  

[freyguy 4305]

Terribly written and terribly acted.  More over the top than a Bruckheimer film.  Felt like a Chinese propaganda film, I guess mainly because it was produced by a Chinese company.  Was definitely expecting more.

[pch 1261]

3 hours ago, freyguy said:

Terribly written and terribly acted.  More over the top than a Bruckheimer film.  Felt like a Chinese propaganda film, I guess mainly because it was produced by a Chinese company.  Was definitely expecting more.

Had the same feeling walking out.  Cheesy dialogue throughout made it more like a B-grade soap opera than an action thriller WWII movie.

[mulletpelini 5216]

I'd give Mandy Moore my Dick Best

[EastTexan 662]

On November 14, 2019 at 2:00 PM, Chad Fuck said:

Found the answer. 

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2013/may/rear-seat-gunners-midway

Thanks for your deep dive research. Interesting info.

[HouTex 1894]

I saw it yesterday and it was good, not great. The original with Henry Fonda and Charlton Heston was better at showing the carrier battle tactics. They didn’t really show the counter attack on the US carrrier. They showed it burning in one scene. And Fonda blows Harrelson away as Adm. Chester Nimitz.

[Saint Tacky 1622]

Saw it on Sunday, and nothing in it really struck a chord.  Battle scenes were cool, but unless you are familiar with the battle it is just chaos and most won't know the significance of what's happening.  It glosses over critical details, invests heavily in material that likely should have been peripheral, and has all the excitement of a documentary.  It just skips the surface and was pretty unsatisfying if you know much about the battle.  There was more time dedicated to John Ford being on Midway during the battle than there was to the Japanese counterattack that sunk the Yorktown.  Or, that the fourth Japanese carrier (Hiryu) was sunk by Yorktown planes flying from Lexington and Hornet.   

I had an uncle that graduated from Annapolis and was stationed on the Enterprise when WWII started.  He didn't talk about it much, but once we were sitting together in a duck blind near Port O'Connor and he told me about coming into Pearl Harbor at night after the attack.  The island was blacked-out but it was as clear as day because of the fires.  To navigate the channel to the harbor he was assigned to take a lantern to the bow and watch for buoys, and waive it when he saw one.  That's the most I heard him say about it.  He never talked about Midway and only after he died and the internet arrived with its access to information did we learn that he had been in charge of a sector off of Makuti Island (PT-171) when PT-109 was sunk.

 

[UpperWestside 6190]

I am probably going to see this movie tonight. My girlfriend absolutely loves history and watches war documentaries regularly. We were watching stuff about Pearl Harbor tonight so she is curious to find out about the Battle of Midway. She wants to see it and I love this battle in particular because of the significance of what happened in the overall scope of the war and direction things went afterwards. 

[RPM 26360]

19 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I am probably going to see this movie tonight. My girlfriend absolutely loves history and watches war documentaries regularly. We were watching stuff about Pearl Harbor tonight so she is curious to find out about the Battle of Midway. She wants to see it and I love this battle in particular because of the significance of what happened in the overall scope of the war and direction things went afterwards. 

Has she seen the Heston/Fonda version? It's much more historically accurate because there were vets alive that would have cried bullshit if it was wrong like Eisenhower did when Battle of the Bulge was released. I'm waiting for this to hit cable.

[UpperWestside 6190]

21 minutes ago, RPM said:

Has she seen the Heston/Fonda version? It's much more historically accurate because there were vets alive that would have cried bullshit if it was wrong like Eisenhower did when Battle of the Bulge was released. I'm waiting for this to hit cable.

She has not, but I can guarantee she would watch it. She is a teacher of kindergarten special needs kids on the UES, but for whatever reason she has a love for history like I do. She will watch pretty much anything if it has to do with war. When I left her apartment tonight she was watching a documentary on the Battle of Stalingrad. I lost my great uncle in that battle due to a Russian plane taking out his half-trac.

I did not think she would watch my favorite movie Patton with me because  of the length, but she loved it. I will mention to her that we should watch the original sometime soon. This one is a keeper. She just loves history. She is Dominican and Brazilian so she has no attachment to this other than a love of understanding the past.

Edited November 22, 2019 by UpperWestside

[RPM 26360]

Then she definitely needs to watch that one first then see the new one. The original has a romantic/racist subplot that was pure Hollywood BS, but it served to move along the long and dull portions of the upcoming battle. Once the battle began, it's very accurate from start to finish. Like I said earlier, if they didn't get it right, they would piss off pretty much 100% of their audience. The downside was it took B roll footage from Tora, Tora, Tora  to fill battle scenes, but if you hadn't seen it before you wouldn't know.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by RPM

[Chad Fuck 17808]

Pretty cool animation puts the Japanese side in perspective. 

 

[Nivek 16992]

Pretty cool animation puts the Japanese side in perspective. 
 

Wish he would finish. Great for listening to in car on road trips.

[DallasGatr 216]

Damn UpperWestside, a Brazilian/Dominican into history? Might be the perfect woman, gonna need pics to confirm.

[bluto 4943]

Saw it tonight, solid watch. Few cringey lines as expected but overall enjoyable. Far from a war nerd but felt like the anti aircraft weaponry was done well.

[Don Johnson 4757]

Saw it yesterday with the 10 year old. He thought it was incredible and clapped with all the olds at the end. 

Didn’t know Dick Best was Daario Naharis until after. Whoever played his roommate that died (Roy?) on the Arizona was maybe the worst actor I’ve ever seen. 

But it was entertaining.  I’d recommend. Especially to 10-17 year old boys interested in history. 

[Trey3216 15373]

On 6/28/2019 at 4:32 PM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I told my wife it looks like Pearl Harbor. She said she likes Pearl Harbor. 

I can confirm she does

[Hagbard Celine 10934]

19 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Pretty cool animation puts the Japanese side in perspective. 

 

Thank you for posting this, i've been waiting for someone to post this.  I've exchanged mails with this guy.  He's young, around 30.  About the only thing he missed was the B-26 strafing the Akagi.

Do not click on the following link unless you have prepared and stocked up with adequate quantities of meat, alchohol, bandwidth, and slack:

https://www.pacificwar.org.au/index.html

This is a "html3 web 1.0" site which in and of itself is an incredible artifact given the nature of the internet.  The navigation is not straightforward.  There are 100+ pages of narrative, wherein you will learn of the UK abandonment of Australia, and the real purpose of the massive nip convoy approaching from the southwest when our Midway Heroes made the ultimate sacrifice.

Again, watch the youtube video above.  It's fantastic (tm jose mourinho).

 

[Hagbard Celine 10934]

i just want to add, not having seen the movie, but covered thoroughly in the youtube video, is the sacrifice of the midway squadrons that preceded the tragedy of vt-8.   all of these attacks together combined to result in the "barn door open" at 1022 am local on 4 June 1942.  "how did we get so lucky"?  the following list of american aviators made that luck by giving their lives.

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2UScasaaDB-USMCbyDate4206.htm

Headquarters Squadron, 2ndMAW, including Major Henderson after whom the Guadalcanal airfield was named
BENSON, Thomas William, 2Lt, 9033, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
BROWN, Raymond Ralph, Pfc, 249584, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
BURKE, William Anthony, Pvt, 361522, Hq&SSqn22, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action (mc)
CAMPION, Kenneth Oscar, 2Lt, 9312, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
HENDERSON, Lofton Russell, Maj, 4084, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
HENNESSY, Daniel Joseph, Capt, 5356, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
MADAY, Anthony Joseph, Pvt, 363417, Hq&SSqn22, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
MAHANNAH, Martin Edward, 2Lt, 9397, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action (mc)
MARMANDE, James Hubert, 2Lt, 9307, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
MCCARTHY, Francis Paul, Capt, 6235, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
NORRIS, Benjamin White, Maj, 4382, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
PARKS, Floyd Bruce, Maj, 5006, HqSqn, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
STARKS, Henry Irvin, 2Lt, Pvt, 324422, HqSqn23, MAG23, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)

Fighter Squadron VMF-221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, defense of Midway Island
ALVORD, John Robert, Capt, 6020, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc),
BELANGER, Maurice Albert, Pfc, 311863, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action (mc)
HOLSBO, Robert Lawrence, Pfc, 302114, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action (mc)
LUCAS, John Dewitt, 2Lt, 9399, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
MADOLE, Eugene Procter, 2Lt, 7013, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
MOWERY, Robert Edward, Pfc, 308610, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action (mc)
SANDOVAL, William Bernard, 7539, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
ZUCKERMAN, Abraham, Pfc, 292275, VMF221, MAG22, 2ndMAW, killed in action (mc)

Fighter Squadron VMF-222, MAG22, 2ndMAW, defense of Midway Island,
CURTIN, Robert Edward, Capt, 5857, VMF222, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
LINDSAY, Ellwood Quayle, 2Lt, 7002, VMF222, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
PINKERTON, David Wills, Jr, 2Lt, 7535, VMF222, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
SWANSBERGER, Walter Wade, 2Lt, 7538, VMF222, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)

Scout Bombing Squadron VMSB-231, MAG21, 2ndMAW, attack on Japanese Fleet
COLVIN, Edby Marshall, Pfc, 311250, VMSB231, MAG21, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
PIRANEO, Joseph Thomas, Pfc, 309271, VMSB231, MAG21, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
RAYMOND, Elza Lester, Sgt, 278634, VMSB231, MAG21, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
RECKE, Charles William, Sgt, 274208, VMSB231, MAG21, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)

Scout Bombing Squadron VMSB-241, MAG22, attack on Japanese Fleet
EK, Bruce Henry, 2Lt, 7534, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
GRATZEK, Thomas John, 2Lt, 7506, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
HAGEDORN, Bruno Paul, 7480, 2Lt, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
RADFORD, Harry Norton, Pfc, 294811, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
REED, George Edward, Pfc, 313446, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action (mc)
REININGER, Lee Walter, Pfc, 277556, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
SMITH, Edward Oliver, Pfc, 296050, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
TWEEDY, Albert William, Jr, 2Lt, 7145, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
WARD, Maurice Andrew, 2Lt, 7993, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)
WHITTINGTON, Arthur Bryant, Pfc, 308292, VMSB241, MAG22, 2ndMAW, Midway Is, killed in action, declared dead June 5, 1943 (mc)

LITTLE, Joseph Dolson, 281666, CoA, 1stTrngBn, 1stMarDiv, New River, NC, accidental death (mc)

there are several others listed at the above link who were probably injured in combat on the 4th and died from their wounds shortly after the battle.

there are 3 monuments on midway, but you can't visit them anymore unless you are a descendant or have connections.

anyway, everyone lionizes VT-8 as they should, but there were others on 4 June 42 that deserve equal remembrance for the same sacrifice in the same manner.

WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO

[Chad Fuck 17808]

On 11/23/2019 at 12:08 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

Thank you for posting this, i've been waiting for someone to post this.  I've exchanged mails with this guy.  He's young, around 30.  About the only thing he missed was the B-26 strafing the Akagi.

Do not click on the following link unless you have prepared and stocked up with adequate quantities of meat, alchohol, bandwidth, and slack:

https://www.pacificwar.org.au/index.html

This is a "html3 web 1.0" site which in and of itself is an incredible artifact given the nature of the internet.  The navigation is not straightforward.  There are 100+ pages of narrative, wherein you will learn of the UK abandonment of Australia, and the real purpose of the massive nip convoy approaching from the southwest when our Midway Heroes made the ultimate sacrifice.

Again, watch the youtube video above.  It's fantastic (tm jose mourinho).

 

Yeah, he does really interesting and informative animations.  Wish he'd finish with Part 2.  

[bluto 4943]

Netflix ww2 series on midway didn’t mention the subs in the middle of the jap fleet, did I miss that on the doc or did they really just skip over it?

The movie did a great job of capturing almost all of the big moments from the doc.

[mulletpelini 5216]

On 11/22/2019 at 11:00 PM, DallasGatr said:

Damn UpperWestside, a Brazilian/Dominican into history? Might be the perfect woman, gonna need pics to confirm.

and she's ok with the length.

[RamjetFDO 10578]

Finally saw it in the theater (been super busy).

I liked it ... but not as much as the 1976 version!  Not sure this one will have as much of a rewatch factor as the '76 pedigree.

As many here have said, they could've trimmed the Pearl Harbor bits down to a lesser amount, spent less (or no) time fawning to the Chinese film backers (/nocr), and more on both splitting the American attacks into the two events that they were *AND* the Japanese counterpunch that eventually led to the sinking of Yorktown.  And, no mention at all of the PBY "Strawberry" fan pattern that actually found the Japanese fleet. 

It felt to me that the actual battle was highly compressed with elements combined - when if they had spent less time on Pearl, Doolittle, and the non-Midway-related Chinese bits, it could have been more of the battle sequences -- which were fun.

I did learn, however, something that I *didn't* know before.  John Ford's documentary filming that just happened to be on Midway when the attacks came!

 

[RPM 26360]

Just finished watching this and it was as bad as I feared. Not Pearl Harbor bad, but close. You could tell this was a Chinese made (bankrolled) film.

[Parliament 14334]

What things does it have that show it is a Chinese product?

[RPM 26360]

10 minutes ago, Parliament said:

What things does it have that show it is a Chinese product?

Fucked up history.

[Gil Bang 26048]

I paid 6 bucks for this steaming pile of dogshit on PPV last night.   WTF?  Some of you motherfuckers like this piece of anime shit?

I've read Billy Lucci columns that were more accurate and entertaining.   What a horrible, terrible movie.  I shut the shit off after 30 minutes.  Whoever the fuck MIchael Bay is, the mothefucker needs to be waiting tables instead of making movies. 

[Upgrayedd 5821]

18 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I paid 6 bucks for this steaming pile of dogshit on PPV last night.   WTF?  Some of you motherfuckers like this piece of anime shit?

I've read Billy Lucci columns that were more accurate and entertaining.   What a horrible, terrible movie.  I shut the shit off after 30 minutes.  Whoever the fuck MIchael Bay is, the mothefucker needs to be waiting tables instead of making movies. 

Don't sugarcoat it.

[RPM 26360]

3 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I paid 6 bucks for this steaming pile of dogshit on PPV last night.   WTF?  Some of you motherfuckers like this piece of anime shit?

I've read Billy Lucci columns that were more accurate and entertaining.   What a horrible, terrible movie.  I shut the shit off after 30 minutes.  Whoever the fuck MIchael Bay is, the mothefucker needs to be waiting tables instead of making movies. 

I don't want to say I told you so, but...

[atomheartbevo 89821]

15 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I paid 6 bucks for this steaming pile of dogshit on PPV last night.   WTF?  Some of you motherfuckers like this piece of anime shit?

I've read Billy Lucci columns that were more accurate and entertaining.   What a horrible, terrible movie.  I shut the shit off after 30 minutes.  Whoever the fuck MIchael Bay is, the mothefucker needs to be waiting tables instead of making movies. 

It felt weird seeing a World War II destroyer transform into a robot.  

[Brothahorn 10087]

19 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I paid 6 bucks for this steaming pile of dogshit on PPV last night.   WTF?  Some of you motherfuckers like this piece of anime shit?

I've read Billy Lucci columns that were more accurate and entertaining.   What a horrible, terrible movie.  I shut the shit off after 30 minutes.  Whoever the fuck MIchael Bay is, the mothefucker needs to be waiting tables instead of making movies. 

[wood 11280]

On 6/12/2020 at 9:51 PM, Gil Bang said:

I paid 6 bucks for this steaming pile of dogshit on PPV last night.   WTF?  Some of you motherfuckers like this piece of anime shit?

I've read Billy Lucci columns that were more accurate and entertaining.   What a horrible, terrible movie.  I shut the shit off after 30 minutes.  Whoever the fuck MIchael Bay is, the mothefucker needs to be waiting tables instead of making movies. 

Yeah, watching it right now for the first time. It's bad. Pretty much like I figgered it would be ...

Hollywood could fuck up a wet dream.

Edited August 20, 2020 by wood

[Dbeasy 15094]

This movie is so bad that even when I flip past it on cable right now, I immediately cringe. The acting is terrible. The editing is terrible. The dialog is terrible. It is an incredible piece of garbage that is a complete embarrassment vs the original.

[TwiceHorn 31551]

For history buffs, Walter Lord's Incredible Victory is an accurate and accessible account of Midway from which the 1976 version drew heavily.

I'm pretty sure its inclusion of the story of ENS George Gay (Waco, TX), the sole survivor of VT8, who watched much of the battle floating in the ocean and was improbably rescued is how he made it rather prominently in the 1976 film.

All of Lord's books are pretty, pretty good.  He's best known for his Titanic book, but wrote several.

[Hagbard Celine 10934]

may i again recommend james bowen's web 1.0 html3 artifact frozen in time in 2009.....

it's only a matter of time before this massive historical treasure trove disappears down the memory hole....

here is his sources page, as per twicehorn Incredible Victory set us up the bomb:

https://www.pacificwar.org.au/Midway/HistoricalSources.html

Spoiler

Reading:

"Midway: The Incredible Victory", by Walter Lord; (1967) Wordsworth's Military Library.
Author's note: I regard Walter Lord's book as being the best study of the Battle of Midway, and especially useful as an introduction to the battle for history students. Walter Lord interviewed many of the participants in the battle for his book.

"Hawaii under the Rising Sun", Professor J.J. Stephan; (2002) University of Hawaii Press.

"Miracle at Midway", Gordon W. Prange et Al, (1982) McGraw-Hill Book Company.

"A Glorious Page in our History", Robert J. Cressman et Al; (1990) Pictorial Histories Publishing Co.

"Return to Midway", Robert D. Ballard; published 1999 by Madison Press Books, Toronto.

"The Midway Campaign", Jack Greene; published by Combined Books, PA, 1995.

"Midway:The Battle that doomed Japan", M. Fuchida and M. Okumiya; (1955) Ballantine Books, NY.

Viewing:

Movie/Cinema

"Midway"

"Midway" (1976) is a Hollywood blockbuster with a cast of top actors. The film falls well short of greatness because of historical inaccuracies, overuse of familiar wartime stock film footage, and the unnecessary intrusion of a mawkish sub-plot involving an American Midway pilot and a Japanese-American girl whose family oppose the romance on racial grounds.

Having seen the battle for Iwo Jima turned by Hollywood into another unjustified guilt trip for Americans in "Flags of our Fathers", I hope no more attempts are made by Hollywood to bring the most important and dramatic sea battle of World War II to the Silver Screen.

Documentaries (DVD)

Author's Note: More information about these DVD documentaries can be found on the amazon.com web-site. Unfortunately, "Battle for the Pacific" has superb Battle of Midway coverage but may be hard to find.

"Return to Midway"

This one-hour National Geographic documentary DVD covers the finding of the sunken USS Yorktown (CV-5) by famous undersea explorer Robert D. Ballard, who also found Titanic and Bismark. See book of the same name above. Battle of Midway US Navy veterans Bill Surgi and Harry Ferrier accompanied Robert Ballard on this extraordinary voyage of discovery. trip. Japan was represented by Battle of Midway veterans Yuji Akamatsu and Haruo Yoshino.This is great viewing. Who can ever forget the sight of USS Yorktown emerging from the darkness of the Pacific floor?

"Battle for the Pacific"

This DVD gem is a compilation of US Navy and US Marine official films. The Battle of Midway segment is official US Navy film and includes 14 minutes of famous director John Ford's coverage of the Japanese attack on Midway Atoll. The colour is superb and the film is in excellent condition with very little of the projector damage that is visible as vertical lines on much Midway stock footage. The voice-overs appear to include comment by Henry Fonda. The voice-over commentaries are patriotic in character and tell us very little about the battle itself and its context in the Pacific War. This DVD was published by Kaleidoscope and may be very difficult to buy in new condition.

"The Battle of Midway"

This Discovery Channel DVD has the best overall coverage and explanation of the Battle of Midway, including excellent graphics. Eyewitness commentaries are a great bonus. Unfortunately, the colour is somewhat faded and the action footage exhibits the vertical projector scratches that are not present in "Battle for the Pacific" (above).

"The Battle for Midway"

This National Geographic DVD covers the battle well with narration by Peter Coyote. The John Ford Midway Atoll footage is very good quality, and the colour is excellent. Eyewitness commentaries are an extra bonus.

"The Pacific War: They filmed the War in Colour"

This 90-minute documentary is highly recommended. The quality of the Battle of Midway coverage is excellent. Several minutes of John Ford's Midway Atoll film are included, and the colour and image sharpness are both very good. A bonus is the coverage of the Doolittle Raid which includes footage that I have never seen before.

"John Ford goes to War" (2005)

This documentary DVD provides an interesting insight into the complex, and somewhat flawed character of a legendary film director. However, the real gem provided as an "Extra" is John Ford's Academy Award-winning "Battle of Midway". It runs for 18 minutes, and in my opinion, the transfer from the original 16 millimetre film shot by Ford at great risk to his life during the Japanese attack on Midway Atoll is very good. The print is reasonably sharp considering its source was 16 mm film. The colour is excellent, and projector wear and tear is minimal and mostly unobtrusive. John Ford's "Battle of Midway" has become difficult to obtain through commercial channels and I feel that inclusion of an excellent copy of his "Battle of Midway" on this DVD justifies the cost. More details of this DVD are available from Amazon.com.

"The World at War" (Volume 1)

The Midway coverage is brief in this ward-winning DVD series on World War II, and explanation is minimal. However, the narration is by Sir Laurence Olivier who acknowledges that Midway was "one of the greatest sea battles of all time".

"Hell in the Pacific"

This DVD is published by Carlton in the UK and may be hard to obtain in North America. However, it is available from Amazon.com (UK). It contains excellent coverage of the Pacific War, including Midway and the Doolittle Raid. The commentary on the Doolittle Raid and Midway by famous Dauntless dive-bomber pilot Lieutenant Commander Dick Best is a great bonus. The Midway coverage lasts for only 4 minutes, but the quality of the stock film is very good. Why the British producers saw fit to include bizarre comments by Rod Steiger dressed in black like the monk Rasputin is a mystery to me.

 

[Hagbard Celine 10934]

On 11/22/2019 at 4:29 PM, Chad Fuck said:

Pretty cool animation puts the Japanese side in perspective. 

 

an updated on the maker of this spectacular content....

he is now living in eastern europe teaching english; he met and got engaged to a native;.

he's not returning stateside any time soon.  he did not reply when prompted (begged) for part 2.

i also implored him to do a part 3 "HighCastle Style" which would show what Yamamoto wanted to do with the Eastern Operation after Midway.... which is the reason for the giant fleet that was steaming from the southwest 2 days behind the IJN carriers coming from the northwest..... read pacificwar.org page on Midway and Eastern Operation.....

if i could produce a part 3 it would show Yamamoto's plan to take Midway, then (assuming US carriers sunk) use Midway to run cover against Oahu B-17s so he could move to take Johnston Island, and then use Johnston to take Palmyra atoll.  Palmyra would be used to set up a defensive perimeter on the right flank while using Midway to guard the left flank, and use Johnston as the base to support a seaborne invasion of the west side of the Big Island in August (of '42).  The Aleut-Hawaii-Panama defensive perimeter would then be compromised, and Yamamoto intended to use the fate of the 500k civilians on Oahu as the river card to force the flop with Washington.  Johnston Island is 910 miles from Kona.  The A6M Type 21 Zero with drop tanks had a range of 1600 miles.   The nips expected to still have all 6 of their front-line carriers after the US carriers were destroyed at Midway.  The Zeros would sortie with drop tanks from Johnston, conduct their missions in support of the landings south of Kona, and then still have enough range to reach empty carriers on station within the 600ish mile defensive radius of either Midway or Palmyra.  The carriers would then refuel and re-arm the Zeroes for an additional sortie against the Kona landings, before returning to Johnston for a crew change.  This plan leaves 2 carriers to guard the north flank against anything we tried to put up from Oahu.  Everything I just described would have been out of range of anything in our arsenal in the spring of '42 with the exception of the B-17s.  Basically our only hope would have been to use B-17s to take out the nip carriers, which as we saw at Midway had about a 1% chance of a hit from altitude above the Zeros.  Below FL22 they would have been cut to pieces over the open ocean with no air cover.  The 4 on-station carriers in range of a landplane defensive radii sortied from Midway and Palmyra would be outside the 830 mile range of F4Fs sortied from Oahu.  On 7 December 41 there 521 Zeros were active in the Pacific, 328 in first-line units.  This order of battle would have seen the nips maintain 30-40 Zeros over the big island 7x24 for as long as necessary to complete the invasion.  We could have contested the big island landings with air from Oahu, but that's it.  And the 2 remaining nip carriers would have contested our counter-air from Oahu.

tl/dr: The fog-of-war attacks from Midway landplanes on the morning of 4 June 1942 are the reason the Famous 4 Minutes were able to happen, changing the course of history.  Those men (listed in my post above), The United States Midway Tokkōtai, sacrificed themselves and never knew the glory they garnered as a result of their own Divine Wind.

[TwiceHorn 31551]

Finally saw this.  Interesting.  Not too bad.

I think that the principal actors were British affected the dialog.  That works fine for some films (Black Hawk Down, BoB), but not for this one.  Maybe they just suck.  Luke Evans is ok, but seemed super-wooden.  Also he and Best were 40 and 30+, so the bravado was kind of BS, I think.  Most of the command pilots were fairly old at that point in the war.

Despite knowing the battle inside out, I was constantly kind of confused as to who was who and what was what.  The 76 version, with the "Torpedo 8," "Bomber 8," etc. was very helpful.

Also interesting that this emphasized certain "characters," Best and McClusky, and ignored others like Thach, Waldron, Massey and Leslie.  It also almost completely ignored the torpedo and fighter squadrons and the PBY scout planes (Strawberry).

Really enjoyed all the Dauntless "footage."  A fine-looking aircraft and the dive bombing sequences were pretty good, although I don't think flak explodes at those low altitudes, they would have just been looking at tracer below 2000 feet or so.  Would have been nice to have some more Devastator and Wildcat footage, as well.

I don't usually care much for Mandy Moore, but she looks great as a dark brunette, particularly in the kind of Ava Gardner look from WWII era.

[kevwun 15928]

It was cheesy and cliched, but I liked the combat scenes.

[TwiceHorn 31551]

Also left out the emphasis of Layton over Rochefort.  They were close, but Rochefort was the man at Midway and a more interesting character.  The guy that did him did well in limited screen time, I thought, but Hal Holbrook is hard to beat.

It's almost like they were trying not to be similar to the 76 version, and the storytelling suffered.

[kevwun 15928]

I had the same thought.  I think they did make a point to focus on the people who weren't highlighted in the first one.  I don't think Best was even in the 1976 film and he did have a rather large part in the battle.

Edited August 21, 2020 by kevwun

[TwiceHorn 31551]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:51 PM, Parliament said:

What things does it have that show it is a Chinese product?

There were several mentions of Japan's invasion of China in the background, showing Doolittle assisted by Chinese.  The Chinaman at the end in trouble for assisting them.  

China got fucked over by Japan in WWII, no doubt.  Their role in the events of Midway, before and after, and indeed the whole war, were minimal.

[Gil Bang 26048]

"Chinaman" is not the prefered nomenclature

[freyguy 4305]

The movie was funded by China, so you were gonna get it whether you liked it or not. 

[Macanudo 13017]

I said it before and I'll say it again....  They fucked up by not making this a mini-series.  Could have opened with Pearl, done an episode on Coral Sea, emphasized the code breaking and getting Yorktown back out to sea.  The lead up to the battle on June 3 and the climax with the actual fight.  Skip all the wife bullshit and that crap.  

The movie was just shitty as is.  There was no reason to have the Roy Pearce storyline and the Doolittle raid wasn't worth the mention either.  When Dixon calls Best on deck to see Doolittle's B-25s was just  laughable.  It's not like they had been in the hangar the whole voyage.

And Best dropping his bomb dead center on the Rising Sun of the Hiryun? Bwahahaha.  At that altitude the bomb would have probably skidded right off.  And it's really not even known if Best hit the Hiryu.  Now, the dude had giant brass balls. Dont get me wrong.

But the movie was shit.

Oh, and STILL think Carriers should be named Yorktown, Lexington, Hornet, Saratoga, Ranger, Essex, Intrepid and Wasp, Enterprise (yes, I know Ford class CVN named that is coming). I'm ok with Nimitz and there should have been a Halsey and a Spruance. 

Now get off my lawn.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Macanudo