The Food Industry Problem

[elfenix 34322]

also, all the responsibility so far has been personal. 

[tantric superman 4667]

10 hours ago, slorch said:

Is it unusual to not trust the government to prescribe what I should eat and view that prescription as an affront to liberty?

Do you consider some kind of tax on producers of say, alcohol or tobacco, or in the future, marijuana as government prescription of what you should eat?

[Incredulity 11675]

30 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Do you consider some kind of tax on producers of say, alcohol or tobacco, or in the future, marijuana as government prescription of what you should eat?

 the current taxation levels of tobacco are definitely prescriptive.

[Longhorn Fever 267]

12 hours ago, Continental Op said:

Those poor people on SNAP just need to stop being poor and buy more money so they can eat wild salmon from Whole Foods instead of going to Walmart and buying shittons of dirt cheap corn syrup-injected shit that gets made thanks to corn subsidies! 

 

12 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Yup, absolutely no produce or meat department at any Walmart.

 

 

11 hours ago, Continental Op said:

Produce and meat don't deliver the dopamine hit all that sugar fueled stuff does.  Fuck, go look at what the people on the fat camp that is the Hey, Steel Shank thread on the food board choose to put in their bodies on a routine basis.  Those are educated people.  The Cletuses and Lurlenes riding around on rascals at the Little Rock Walmart are going to get their fix the cheapest way possible.  I'm not saying we have to ban Oreos or whatever but we should stop subsidizing shit like corn that is used to make poison.  

Yep, when a family is living paycheck to paycheck, which are they going to buy:

Lettuce $2-3
Tomatoes $1.29/lb
Chicken Breast $1.99/lb

or

Loaf white bread $0.69
Jar peanut butter $2
Bag of Chips $0.99

And I've got to wash and cut those veggies plus cook the chicken and clean the dishes? That fresh food is gonna spoil quicker, too, and my kids don't like it. I'm too tired from working my 2-3 jobs/part time jobs. Ain't nobody got time for that!

 

Subsidies are going to the wrong foods and  producers

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

11 hours ago, elfenix said:

also, all the responsibility so far has been personal. 

..and the additional labeling is still part of the personal responsibility tract and the food industry has fought it tooth and nail.

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

 the current taxation levels of tobacco are definitely prescriptive.

It's a very interesting issue.  I think once you decide to be part of civilization, everything is arguably prescriptive. 

I remember listening to a podcast about how French elementary schools put so much into the lunches they feed their students.  It's part of acculturating them into French society, and the food was pretty healthy and pretty good. From the get go, there seems to be French policy that both promotes French culture and health.

If bad food habits are measurable in terms of rising health costs and thus costs to the taxpayer, I don't have any problem with intelligent policy that counters those affects.  It's not an issue of freedom in the sense of the Bill of Rights.  It's an issue of managing the costs and revenues of the government. 

If I can tax the the folks who produce goods that cause health problems (fast food, polluters, etc.) I can use that revenue to counter the health problems or pay off poorer people who get unfairly hammered by the tax policy. 

 

[Incredulity 11675]

19 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

It's a very interesting issue.  I think once you decide to be part of civilization, everything is arguably prescriptive. 

I remember listening to a podcast about how French elementary schools put so much into the lunches they feed their students.  It's part of acculturating them into French society, and the food was pretty healthy and pretty good. From the get go, there seems to be French policy that both promotes French culture and health.

If bad food habits are measurable in terms of rising health costs and thus costs to the taxpayer, I don't have any problem with intelligent policy that counters those affects.  It's not an issue of freedom in the sense of the Bill of Rights.  It's an issue of managing the costs and revenues of the government. 

If I can tax the the folks who produce goods that cause health problems (fast food, polluters, etc.) I can use that revenue to counter the health problems or pay off poorer people who get unfairly hammered by the tax policy. 

 

The government, specifically through social engineering tax policy, shouldn't be the solution to all problems.

More specifically, what is the specific definition of a good food?  As mentioned up thread carbs were good and fat was bad 25 years ago.  Also, from up thread there are already federal subsidies for the corn and sugar industry that bastardize incentives.  More of that isn't the answer.

[tantric superman 4667]

16 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Also, from up thread there are already federal subsidies for the corn and sugar industry that bastardize incentives.  More of that isn't the answer.

There is nothing in what I am arguing that indicates that we should pile government program upon government program.  If there are subsides that should be removed and that is good policy, remove them.

 

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

52 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The government, specifically through social engineering tax policy, shouldn't be the solution to all problems.

But it can be part of the solution to this problem without some groundbreaking tax policy or overreach.  We know what the problem is (over consumption of an addictive and unhealthy product) , our solutions thus far have failed to even slow its rise, and the costs of prevention is minuscule compared to the costs to treat.  We have done it with tobacco and alcohol.  We have done it with occupational work safety and  environmental pollution.  Start with truthful labeling and remove the low hanging fruit subsidies to start. 

 

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

More specifically, what is the specific definition of a good food?  As mentioned up thread carbs were good and fat was bad 25 years ago.  Also, from up thread there are already federal subsidies for the corn and sugar industry that bastardize incentives.  More of that isn't the answer.

We don't even need to know what the definition of good food is, just the bad for now, and we know what that is.  Fat is still bad when you combine it with lots of sugar.

[Incredulity 11675]

10 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

But it can be part of the solution to this problem without some groundbreaking tax policy or overreach.  We know what the problem is (over consumption of an addictive and unhealthy product) , our solutions thus far have failed to even slow its rise, and the costs of prevention is minuscule compared to the costs to treat.  We have done it with tobacco and alcohol.  We have done it with occupational work safety and  environmental pollution.  Start with truthful labeling and remove the low hanging fruit subsidies to start. 

 

We don't even need to know what the definition of good food is, just the bad for now, and we know what that is.  Fat is still bad when you combine it with lots of sugar.

What about current food labeling is not truthful?  There are already in fact thousands of pages of regulations that mandate "truthful labeling" for food products.

Is honey a bad food?  It is an "added sugar" as classified by the new nutritional labeling laws.

 

[DCA_HORN 725]

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/07/01/defense-department-to-ban-beer-and-pizza-mandatory-keto-diet-may-enhance-military-performance/

The controversial ketogenic or “keto” diet may be the future of the military, some defense officials say.

Service members, and Navy SEALS especially, may have to forgo beer and burritos for skinny cocktails and avocado salad (forget the tortilla chips) if a proposal from Special Operations Command gains momentum.

While a nutritionally enhanced future could eventually be put into effect for all branches, the SEALS and other underwater dive-mission specialists might be the first groups targeted for the change in nutritional guidelines.

Lisa Sanders, the director of science and technology at U.S. Special Operations Command, presented an Ohio State University study that recommends the nutritional change based on the keto diet, which is high in fat and low in carbohydrates. The diet works to deprive the body of glucose needed for energy and forces it to burn stored fats instead. The study was conducted on the university’s Army ROTC cadet population.

“One of the effects of truly being in ketosis is that it changes the way your body handles oxygen deprivation, so you can actually stay underwater at depths for longer periods of time and not go into oxygen seizures,” Sanders said at the Special Operations Forces Industry Conference in May.

Discussion of new dietary guidelines for service members comes at a time of growing concern about obesity in the military and its potential threat to readiness.

[tantric superman 4667]

26 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

 

Is honey a bad food?  It is an "added sugar" as classified by the new nutritional labeling laws.

 

I know it's sweet. 

But it ain't nothing next to baby's treat.

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

12 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

What about current food labeling is not truthful?  There are already in fact thousands of pages of regulations that mandate "truthful labeling" for food products.

Read this thread about what is needed. It has been asked and answered.

 

12 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Is honey a bad food?  It is an "added sugar" as classified by the new nutritional labeling laws.

It is when you have already had a 32oz OJ.

You seem to short on suggesting any solutions that have not already been tried and failed.  What is your new solution?

Hell, for all I know we are just a bunch of lazy fat asses and there is no solution and no matter what tax we put on sugar, no matter how many subsidies we  take away, no matter how much labeling we put on products, and no matter how much we invest in education, we will still be in the same boat, but these things must be tried due to the ultimate cost. 

[Incredulity 11675]

7 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

 

You seem to short on suggesting any solutions that have not already been tried and failed.  What is your new solution?

Hell, for all I know we are just a bunch of lazy fat asses and there is no solution and no matter what tax we put on sugar, no matter how many subsidies we  take away, no matter how much labeling we put on products, and no matter how much we invest in education, we will still be in the same boat, but these things must be tried due to the ultimate cost. 

underwrite health insurance individually.

It's a whole lot better than creating another pile of funds for the government to mismanage.

[F250 28784]

16 minutes ago, DCA_HORN said:

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/07/01/defense-department-to-ban-beer-and-pizza-mandatory-keto-diet-may-enhance-military-performance/

The controversial ketogenic or “keto” diet may be the future of the military, some defense officials say.

Service members, and Navy SEALS especially, may have to forgo beer and burritos for skinny cocktails and avocado salad (forget the tortilla chips) if a proposal from Special Operations Command gains momentum.

While a nutritionally enhanced future could eventually be put into effect for all branches, the SEALS and other underwater dive-mission specialists might be the first groups targeted for the change in nutritional guidelines.

Lisa Sanders, the director of science and technology at U.S. Special Operations Command, presented an Ohio State University study that recommends the nutritional change based on the keto diet, which is high in fat and low in carbohydrates. The diet works to deprive the body of glucose needed for energy and forces it to burn stored fats instead. The study was conducted on the university’s Army ROTC cadet population.

“One of the effects of truly being in ketosis is that it changes the way your body handles oxygen deprivation, so you can actually stay underwater at depths for longer periods of time and not go into oxygen seizures,” Sanders said at the Special Operations Forces Industry Conference in May.

Discussion of new dietary guidelines for service members comes at a time of growing concern about obesity in the military and its potential threat to readiness.

Space Force is more plausible than the military giving up beer.

 

[Incredulity 11675]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

Space Force is more plausible than the military giving up beer.

 

something something skinny mojito, something something gays in the military.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Incredulity

[Continental Op 3934]

Well we made it past 100 posts in a food thread without keto chauvinism and that is probably some kind of record.

[F250 28784]

3 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

Well we made it past 100 posts in a food thread without keto chauvinism and that is probably some kind of record.

Considering sugar was mentioned several times in the OP, I expected an immediate keto war to ensue.

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

17 minutes ago, F250 said:

Considering sugar was mentioned several times in the OP, I expected an immediate keto war to ensue.

Begun, the keto wars have.

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

26 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

underwrite health insurance individually.

It's a whole lot better than creating another pile of funds for the government to mismanage.

So walk me through what that looks like, wrt this problem.