How long to probate a will? A year?

[horn4life 3819]

Just trying to see if Attorney's my MIL's brother hired are on the up and up.  Basically a high 7 figure estate, split among 80+ year old siblings or the surviving children of dead siblings.  Didn't seem like the estate was more than the proceeds from a home and a bunch of stock.  Attorney was telling executor that it might be a year before the funds are distributed.  My MIL just when through major cancer surgery at MD Anderson, she's tough as hell as she's had multiple cancers, but this one was a potential death sentence.

The Uncle who is the executor is a good old boy, but now at all that savvy on the finance/business side of things, and his wife showed an amazing degree of greed as my MIL's sister was passing.  So it shot up a bit of a red flag.  A year just seemed like a long time to sell some stock and distribute the funds.  But what do I know? I worry the Uncle might be getting taken for a ride by the attorney.  Seemed like a straightforward will and not complicated financials.  It would be nice if my MIL could enjoy the cash while she's still alive.

Thoughts? 

[elfenix 34396]

generally 4.

edit: i answered the wrong question.  4 is the statute.  administration can take a while.  can depend on what kind of debts were owed at the time as well.

Edited July 1, 2019 by elfenix

[Soldierhorn 206]

Not trying to be a smart-aleck but if you are not the executor, then it takes as long as it takes.  The estate doesnt sound complicated but if the executor takes the probate route with a lawyer, then it can eat up time and money. 

I recently was the executor of my mom's estate and did it without probate or a lawyer.  The accounts and titled property were settled and dispensed IAW the will using a letter of testamentary.  Of course none of the siblings contested the planned distribution.  If they did, we would have had to waste money on probate. 

 

[Armybrat 41041]

As executor of my FIL’s estate 35 years ago, all I had to do was sell his house - his only asset besides SS death benefit - and pay off a substantial hospital bill (negotiated down) and three outstanding debts. Started it all with the assistance of his lawyer. Be sure you get enough letters of testamentary.

Mrs. Brat was the sole beneficiary. She let his two brothers clean out the house and have his Cadillac, but she kept his diamond ring & stepmother’s jewelry and a couple of pieces of furniture.

There were no savings accounts or stocks, as all those were depleted during his final years to fuel his alcoholism. Then we went through with his preplanned cremation & burial service. Sad ending for a CPA.

Probate was completed within 6 months, IIRC.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Armybrat

[TwiceHorn 31705]

7 hours ago, Soldierhorn said:

Not trying to be a smart-aleck but if you are not the executor, then it takes as long as it takes.  The estate doesnt sound complicated but if the executor takes the probate route with a lawyer, then it can eat up time and money. 

I recently was the executor of my mom's estate and did it without probate or a lawyer.  The accounts and titled property were settled and dispensed IAW the will using a letter of testamentary.  Of course none of the siblings contested the planned distribution.  If they did, we would have had to waste money on probate. 

 

Not sure what state this is in or what procedures were involved, but generally speaking, "letters testamentary" are what a probate court issues to the executor/adminstrator/representative for that person to carry out the affairs of the estate "in the shoes of the deceased."

In Texas, there's no way to get letters testamentary without filing a probate.

Generally speaking, most assets other than real estate titled in the name of the deceased can be handled informally without a probate.  Bank accounts, investment accounts, cars, other personal property etc. etc. are all "doable" for the most part.  Clean title to real estate is not.

Also, if there are large debts that need to be handled before distribution, probate can provide a relatively orderly way of handling that.

And if people are going to fight about it, probate is a virtual necessity.

[TwiceHorn 31705]

More on point to OP's question, the general steps of a probate are as follows:

1) admit the will to probate on proof of death and showing that the will is legit

2) appoint "executor"

3) gather assets and liabilities, change title to "Estate of Deceased"

4) value and categorize assets as passing under the will or not (also necessary for estate tax return)

5) pay any debts of the estate

6) identify heirs and beneficiaries

7) distribute assets

So yeah, all of that can take a year, easy.  Particularly if the assets were "all over the place," e.g. a couple of banks, two or three investment houses, and so on.

[TwiceHorn 31705]

Also, step 3) can be something of a pain in the ass, as indicated, and requires the executor to get off his or her ass and take death certificates, letters testamentary, and will copies to the various relevant financial institutions and sign documents, etc. etc.  How fast this gets handled is directly proportional to the diligence of the executor.  The lawyers could be tasked with doing this, but that would be an extraordinarily expensive way to go about it.

So, if Uncle GOB is being lazy, it could take more than a year.  In Texas, the heirs and beneficiaries have the right to inquire as to the status of things and I'm sure they do in other jurisdictions as well.  The right starts 15 months after appointment of the "executor."  So that gives you an idea that a probate that takes less than 15 months is presumptively reasonable.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11830]

A year is probably about right - Twice covered most of it above, but it is the tax issues that can take a while particularly if the deceased had taxable income the year of passing.

[CO Horn 167]

If it is a high 7 figure Estate, this is not a small Estate.  Doesn't sound like a complicated estate, but with the dollar amount involved, it's not that simple.

[Armybrat 41041]

Executor should hire a CPA in that case to deal with the federal death taxes.

[horn4life 3819]

Thanks for the replies guys. Unfortunately the executor isn't financially sophisticated in the least and my worry is he would simply get soaked by the Attorneys.  On the other hand I know the wife wants to get their portion of the loot as quickly as possible, so I guess that might work in the MIL's favor. 

Hope she get's the cash while she can enjoy it at least a little bit.  The woman is a war horse as far as toughness is concerned. Rheumatoid arthritis with long term steriod use basically turning her spine into swiss cheese, which resulted in broken back (misdiagnosed for 2.5 months) with ultimate treatment an internal pain pump.  The week before her surgery at MD Anderson, she goes to get the pump refilled, and they get like 1cc out of 20cc of Dilaudid into the pump, so basically massive OD of 19cc of synthetic heroin in her system, luckily emergency room was up the street. Survived breast, uterine and now bladder cancer.  

Thanks again guys

[TwiceHorn 31705]

Financial sophistication isn't necessary to be an executor.  For the most part it's clerical work.  Similarly, I'm not sure you need to be a financial genius to ascertain that you're being ripped off by attorneys.

Probate isn't super mysterious.  There are things you have to do to commence probate, and deadlines to meet once commenced.  The deadlined tasks aren't difficult or opaque, they just need doing.

Deciding if, when, or how to liquidate or deal with assets and liabilities could take some financial know-how, if it becomes necessary and if the assets are complicated, but the lawyers can probably keep anything grotesquely stupid from happening.

[Reagan1k 3026]

On 7/1/2019 at 10:36 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Also, step 3) can be something of a pain in the ass, as indicated, and requires the executor to get off his or her ass and take death certificates, letters testamentary, and will copies to the various relevant financial institutions and sign documents, etc. etc.  How fast this gets handled is directly proportional to the diligence of the executor

This is exactly where there can be a time lag in what would seem like a simple thing from the outside. 

If all securities are held in street name at one brokerage house then it shouldn’t take long on that end- real property not withstanding. 

 However, if there are multiple brokerage accounts, direct investments with mutual funds or stocks held in certificate form, dealing with all of those various entities and their unique paperwork can be a hassle.

I was involved with an estate settlement (as an heir) where there were a number of stocks held in certificate form which needed to be consolidated before being distributed.  The executor  had to contact each transfer agent individually, present paperwork, file paperwork, and then had all stock transferred into an estate account in street name.  From there individual accounts were set up for each heir and shares divided.  

Bottom line is that it will be as cumbersome as the holdings are complicated.  As Twice explained, the process is simple but not always easy from a time standpoint.  Add in any laziness or sloppiness on the part of the executor and you may have a wait on your hands.  

In this case I’d only worry about getting fleeced on legal fees if the lawyer is appointed to handle the legwork vs the executor doing the legwork. 

[Reagan1k 3026]

On 7/1/2019 at 6:29 PM, Armybrat said:

Executor should hire a CPA in that case to deal with the federal death taxes.

$11.4 million is the unified credit for 2019. 

An estate with net worth below that number will not be subject to estate tax.

 Above that number then yes, Brat is correct and a CPA should be engaged - maybe start with the same CPA who has been preparing the taxes while the deceased was alive as they’ll need to file a final return for the income earned during the year of death as well. 

[Armybrat 41041]

So it was increased from the 6 million. Good.