Trump's Trade War

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

Don’t the farmers stand to make more off market than this bailout?

[Lurch 5931]

To be honest I'm somewhat heartened by the fact that the talking points from farm country have been that they'd rather have the tariffs gone than get the subsidies. That's the right answer and I'm glad that's the pushback they're providing rather than just being bought off by the handouts and staying quiet.

Is it the right answer? What if other countries can simply grow and deliver product X cheaper than we can, because we’re a prosperous country and our wages and other costs are appropriately higher? So, we virtually stop growing product X and become dependent upon another nation for it, a nation we may later find ourselves in conflict with and now that staple’s scarce availability is weaponized against us?

Should we, instead, have a strategy of modest support for domestic producers of product X, not because we’re satan loving commies, but because it’s sound economic security?

Are subsidies often unnecessary or excessively applied? Almost certainly. Should they be eliminated entirely because of that? He’ll no.

See also: welfare, regulations, taxes, executive orders, judicial activism, ...

[Huckleberry 32998]

Some subsidization in certain industries is understandable for some of the reasons you list.

This is where I point out that I made a huge mistake in that post by typing subsidies when I meant bailouts or what the admin is trying to call emergency aid. Brain got sidetracked by having recently read about the various subsidies that agriculture gets. That obviously makes a big difference in the post's specific meaning but the overall intent remains the same. It's good that the feedback has been to rescind the tariffs rather than increase the bailouts. Essentially that going back to the previous situation is better than continuing to jack up tariffs with accompanying handouts to the farmers.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Huckleberry

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The European Union's (EU) trade commissioner, Cecilia Malmström, said Wednesday that the EU is readying tariffs on $20 billion in U.S. goods if President Trumpimposes trade levies on imported cars. 

"We hope that it doesn't come to that and that we can a solution," Malmström told the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter, according to Reuters. 

"If not, the EU Commission is preparing a rather long list of many American goods. It would be around $20 billion," she said.

Malmström added that new European tariffs would target "agricultural products, machinery, high-tech products and other things." 

Malmström also said that she did not take U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin's proposal to drop tariffs, nontariff trade barriers and subsidies seriously, according to Reuters. 

Malmström's comments came as she joined a EU delegation in Washington for discussions on a long-term trade deal. The talks come as tensions rise between the U.S. and EU nations over tariffs. 

Trump has drawn scrutiny for ordering steep steel and aluminum tariffs in May in response to what he said were national security concerns. 

In addition, Trump threatened to place a 20 percent tariff on all European cars entering the U.S. in June. 

"Based on the Tariffs and Trade Barriers long placed on the U.S. and it great companies and workers by the European Union, if these Tariffs and Barriers are not soon broken down and removed, we will be placing a 20% Tariff on all of their cars coming into the U.S. Build them here!" Trump tweeted at the time. 

Many U.S. trade partners have said they would respond to Trump's actions, with Canada announcing retaliatory tariffs that targeted U.S. exports earlier this month. 

http://thehill.com/policy/international/398725-trade-commissioner-eu-preparing-to-unveil-20b-in-tariffs-on-us-goods

[F250 28783]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

so this has been brought up numerous times: that trump's endgame is a zero sum - no subsidies, no tariffs. i've heard callers on jeff ward's show in the afternoon explaining this because the president cannot do so. one frequent example cited is canada's villainously outrageous tariff on our dairy. this ignores the fact that we heavily subsidize our dairy industry, and therefore the price of our milk is artificially low and non-subsidized canada dairy could not compete.

now, the question is, are we willing to pay more for our milk, and drop that subsidy for our dairy industry so canada can drop their tariff on our milk?

this fucker tries to make things so binary and zero sum, when the reality is much more complex.

The whole "no tarrifs, no barriers, no subsidies" is complete bull shit. Anyone who takes Trump seriously on this is an idiot.

"Don't you see, Trump is fighting for America, he wants real free trade not just trade agreements which are not free trade. "

[Horn Dog 9875]

Can't wait till China decides to terminate any future monetary loans to the US government as retaliation.  

[Biff Tannen 45691]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

"Based on the Tariffs and Trade Barriers long placed on the U.S. and it great companies and workers by the European Union, if these Tariffs and Barriers are not soon broken down and removed, we will be placing a 20% Tariff on all of their cars coming into the U.S. Build them here!" Trump tweeted at the time. 

Lol, forgot about this gem.  They do build them here you dumb fuck!

[EuroHorn 3265]

Trump secures concessions from Europeans to avoid trade war: DJ, citing EU official

• President Donald Trump on Wednesday secured concessions from Europe, averting a trade war, the Dow Jones News Wire reported, citing a European Union official.
• The Dow Jones Industrial Average popped Wednesday afternoon, rising more than half a percent on the news. 
• The Europeans agreed to lower industrial tariffs and import more U.S. soybeans, Dow Jones reported.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/25/trump-we-hope-to-work-something-out-on-a-fair-trade-deal-with-europe.html

[Mojo Hand 4580]

So no tariffs, no barriers, no subsidies anymore? 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

We won!!! 

[DixonHur 11340]

So what exactly are the concessions the EU agreed to?  I can't find any specifics.

 

[Huckleberry 32998]

Yeah, seems like the devil is in the details. I certainly hope we are in a better position now than we were when he started this.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

Sounds like a lot of "plan to do this" and "agreed to do that" 

Is there anything out there that shows what each side agreed to? I think Teflon Don would be a lot more geeked out if he bent the EU over the barrel, but we will see... 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

Lulz at the flags on the ground. 

[4th&Five 41558]

OMG the American flags are on the floor. Disgraceful!!!!!

[DixonHur 11340]

What's the tariff on campaign banner?

[lemonlime 5503]

Those flags are genuinely creepy.  Trump isn't king (yet), except in his own fevered mind.  There shouldn't be flags to the person temporarily holding the office of the presidency, and I've never seen them for any other president.  There were flags however to royal houses.

[4th&Five 41558]

They’re for his 2020 campaign. 

[lemonlime 5503]

Just now, 4th&Five said:

They’re for his 2020 campaign. 

Campaign flags?  Really?  I've never seen them for any other candidates.  And people in 2018 have the so called campaign flags flying more than two years before the election.

[FWD 297]

Let's all hope that Trump's supporters are dumb enough that this agreement to hold future negotiations can be sold as a "win" and we can move on from this stupid trade war.

[Dolemite 143]

56 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Trump secures concessions from Europeans to avoid trade war: DJ, citing EU official

• President Donald Trump on Wednesday secured concessions from Europe, averting a trade war, the Dow Jones News Wire reported, citing a European Union official.
• The Dow Jones Industrial Average popped Wednesday afternoon, rising more than half a percent on the news. 
• The Europeans agreed to lower industrial tariffs and import more U.S. soybeans, Dow Jones reported.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/25/trump-we-hope-to-work-something-out-on-a-fair-trade-deal-with-europe.html

 

Is that even legal??

Another article. 

Quote

Breaking News...

 

President Trump on Wednesday declared a “new phase” in the relationship between the U.S. and the European Union, agreeing to hold off on proposed car tariffs and work with the EU to resolve their dispute over metals duties, while also promoting bilateral trade.

 

Speaking in the Rose Garden of the White House alongside European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, Mr. Trump said the U.S. and the EU had agreed to “work together toward zero tariffs, zero non-tariff barriers and zero subsidies on non auto-industrial goods.”

“This was a very big day for free and fair trade,” Mr. Trump said. He said the U.S. and EU would “resolve” the steel and aluminum tariffs he imposed earlier this year and the retaliatory tariffs the EU imposed in response.

He said the EU had agreed “almost immediately” begin buying more U.S. soybeans and that the European bloc had agreed to increase LNG exports from the U.S. The EU will be a “massive buyer” of LNG, Mr. Trump said.

“I had the intention to make a deal today,” said Mr. Juncker. “And we made a deal today. “

Mr. Trump also said the U.S. and EU would work “closely together” to reform the World Trade Organization and would launch an “executive working group” to implement their joint agenda.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ahead-of-eu-meeting-trump-rails-at-domestic-critics-1532524795

2

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Dolemite

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

Gotta love the Chinese going right after his base with the tariffs.  The Chinese give zero fucks.  It's comical that Trump thinks he can win this trade war...with a country that would be willing to let a billion of their people starve to death if it meant winning.  Smart move Dotard...let's get in a staring battle with those guys.  Lulz 

[retread 2951]

[Austin Orange 98]

33 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Lulz at the flags on the ground. 

Need to get Maxine Waters over there with her fire.

[Tuco 5076]

23 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

Speaking in the Rose Garden of the White House alongside European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, Mr. Trump said the U.S. and the EU had agreed to “work together toward zero tariffs, zero non-tariff barriers and zero subsidies on non auto-industrial goods.”

 

Does "non auto-industrial goods" mean industrial goods except for autos or goods that are neither auto nor industrial, which would include ag?

[Js1 85413]

1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

We won!!! 

When is the victory parade?

[Caracara 41]

I look at the news and see uproar about Trump subsidizing Ag.  Then today I see news about Trump getting control of the Fed.  Then comes apparent headway with the EU on trade.

Is any of this connected?

[David Dennison 18923]

2 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I look at the news and see uproar about Trump subsidizing Ag.  Then today I see news about Trump getting control of the Fed.  Then comes apparent headway with the EU on trade.

Is any of this connected?

"Fixing" things you fucked up is not making headway. It's incompetence.

[woohorn 1131]

Does "non auto-industrial goods" mean industrial goods except for autos or goods that are neither auto nor industrial, which would include ag?

First one. We subsidize ag around $16 B each year, I believe. Can't be too flip when he says "zero subsidies" because he never means zero subsidies on our side of course.

 

[Dolemite 143]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

Does "non auto-industrial goods" mean industrial goods except for autos or goods that are neither auto nor industrial, which would include ag?

Don't know. Just guessing everything not auto related. Getting rid of tariffs is the goal and was all along.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Dolemite

[Swam@Texas 112]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

"Fixing" things you fucked up is not making headway. It's incompetence.

[Lurch 5931]

Enjoy it now, because in 2020 every fucking Swam post is getting a But Trump. We already have a ridiculous amount of material to work with and it’s only getting more voluminous and heinous.

 

 

like your mom

 

 

 

 

 

[F250 28783]

2 hours ago, Swam@Texas said:

A trade deficit means we have a surplus of capital that is due to the inflow of foreign investment. This a good thing as it's a sign of a healthy economy. There is nothing wrong with a trade deficit. Trade deficits accompany economic expansions. Our domestic demand for goods and services is outpacing our domestic supply so we import, in turn we receive foreign investment from the money spent on imports. In other words, the money we spent on imports returns back to our economy plus our consumers benefit from the lower cost of out sourcing the production of goods and services. It's a win/win situation.

Anyways, David Dennison is correct. Backing out of a chaotic situation you created isn't fixing things.

 

[Swam@Texas 112]

Barack Hussein Obama, II allowed the European trade advantage against us to expand with complete indifference to its economic impact on American workers, especially those in the manufacturing sector. (Remember, "those jobs aren't coming back.") If you want to believe borrowing money from China to buy heavily tariffed products from Europe is a sound economic policy, then by all means continue to lament today's developments. 

[Gil Bang 25975]

Barack Hussein Obama, II allowed the European trade advantage against us to expand with complete indifference to its economic impact on American workers, especially those in the manufacturing sector. (Remember, "those jobs aren't coming back.") If you want to believe borrowing money from China to buy heavily tariffed products from Europe is a sound economic policy, then by all means continue to lament today's developments. 

Still a cunt.

[F250 28783]

1 hour ago, Swam@Texas said:

Barack Hussein Obama, II allowed the European trade advantage against us to expand with complete indifference to its economic impact on American workers, especially those in the manufacturing sector. (Remember, "those jobs aren't coming back.") If you want to believe borrowing money from China to buy heavily tariffed products from Europe is a sound economic policy, then by all means continue to lament today's developments. 

So, please explain how an inflow of foreign capital is detrimental to our economy.

Also, what is the standard practice for discouraging foreign investment?

Hint: you don't discourage foreign investment by tinkering with trade because that would be fucking stupid.

 

[kopp0e 1135]

10 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

We won!!! 

Trumps' theme song he listens to non stop on Air Force 1, while flying to hang out in North Korea:

 

[FWD 297]

11 hours ago, Swam@Texas said:

Barack Hussein Obama, II allowed the European trade advantage against us to expand with complete indifference to its economic impact on American workers, especially those in the manufacturing sector. (Remember, "those jobs aren't coming back.") If you want to believe borrowing money from China to buy heavily tariffed products from Europe is a sound economic policy, then by all means continue to lament today's developments. 

Can you explain the bolded part, I don't understand what you are saying our policy was. 

[Huckleberry 32998]

Don't worry, neither does he.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

11 hours ago, Swam@Texas said:

Barack Hussein Obama, II allowed the European trade advantage against us to expand with complete indifference to its economic impact on American workers, especially those in the manufacturing sector. (Remember, "those jobs aren't coming back.") If you want to believe borrowing money from China to buy heavily tariffed products from Europe is a sound economic policy, then by all means continue to lament today's developments. 

You know what's interesting?  Services represent 80% of US GDP, and 80% of US private sector employment.  Its funny how services never find their way on to these trade balance sheets.

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

Don't know if already posted but Coke is raising prices specifically due to the tariffs.  Big CPG companies are all getting pinched right now and you'll see significant price increases over the next 12-24:

 

Coca-Cola Co. KO +0.69% reported rising drink volumes in its latest quarter, boosted by demand for diet sodas in the U.S. and by experiments abroad. But it also said it would take the unusual step of raising prices on its carbonated soft drinks in the middle of the year. 

Chief Executive James Quincey said the price move in North America was in response to rising costs, including higher freight rates and metal prices after the U.S. placed tariffs on Chinese imports earlier this year.

[crash_davis 23113]

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Don't know if already posted but Coke is raising prices specifically due to the tariffs.  Big CPG companies are all getting pinched right now and you'll see significant price increases over the next 12-24:

 

Coca-Cola Co. KO +0.69% reported rising drink volumes in its latest quarter, boosted by demand for diet sodas in the U.S. and by experiments abroad. But it also said it would take the unusual step of raising prices on its carbonated soft drinks in the middle of the year. 

Chief Executive James Quincey said the price move in North America was in response to rising costs, including higher freight rates and metal prices after the U.S. placed tariffs on Chinese imports earlier this year.

Good.  Maybe that will help a few Trump voters finally lose some weight.

[wildcat09 29355]

12 hours ago, Swam@Texas said:

Barack Hussein Obama, II allowed the European trade advantage against us to expand with complete indifference to its economic impact on American workers, especially those in the manufacturing sector. (Remember, "those jobs aren't coming back.") If you want to believe borrowing money from China to buy heavily tariffed products from Europe is a sound economic policy, then by all means continue to lament today's developments. 

How cute, Swam thinks it's the federal government buying European products.

[Swam@Texas 112]

^
You're apparently unfamiliar with how government-subsidized lending to American corporations works. 

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Swam@Texas

[Swam@Texas 112]

Feel free to educate yourself here: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/?utm_term=.390129f53c85

And then come back and admit you were wrong. 

[David Dennison 18923]

13 minutes ago, Swam@Texas said:

^
You're apparently unfamiliar with how government-subsidized lending to American corporations works. 

Then why do you vote for Republicans? They invented corporate welfare.

[VRHorn 718]

He told you - Barack Hussein Obama, II.

[DixonHur 11340]

15 hours ago, Swam@Texas said:

Barack Hussein Obama, II allowed the European trade advantage against us to expand with complete indifference to its economic impact on American workers, especially those in the manufacturing sector. (Remember, "those jobs aren't coming back.") If you want to believe borrowing money from China to buy heavily tariffed products from Europe is a sound economic policy, then by all means continue to lament today's developments. 

 

1 hour ago, Swam@Texas said:

^
You're apparently unfamiliar with how government-subsidized lending to American corporations works. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Swam@Texas said:

Feel free to educate yourself here: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/?utm_term=.390129f53c85

And then come back and admit you were wrong. 

Once again Swam shows his ass when trying to argue economics. 

His ignorance on the subject is astounding...and impressive. 

Your 3 posts are about 3 unrelated activities. 

1. Trade deficits don't mean what you seem to think they do and, in and of themselves, are not bad...but don't take my word for it, read what the libtards over at the CATO Institute wrote back in 1998
2. "Government-subsidized lending" encompasses things like FHA home loans, student loans, and SBA loans, not subsidies to major corporations; which are more often than not, grants and tax incentives, not loans...had you read the article you posted, you may have been able to figure that out.
3. We borrow money from other countries because we have a budget deficit, not because of the trade deficit.  The only relation is that a large part of our budget deficit is due to tax cuts, and protectionist tactics such as farm subsidies, etc.

Putting aside your fundamental misunderstanding of how it all works, please let us know which "heavily tariffed" goods the US government is buying from Europe?

Edited July 26, 2018 by DixonHur